Whats the hold up?

[dontlop]

iraq had an income from day one .. its not like your typical war torn country thats going to take a hundred years to rebuild their country and economic structure . they can take their oild revenues and finance ten times that through digital banking ,,a certain portion of their income goes directly to paying interest , they can essentialy create their own credit card to be used internaly within their borders ..for doing what ever they want .. iraq has to import certain raw materials that they dont hav ,, so iraq has their own raw maretials ..like sulfer .. crude oil .. gold .. natural gas .. they can join the world trade organizationand trade off commodity for commodity .. value for value .. .. now if some country out like vietnam .. they couldnt come up with a hundred billion a year in oil revenues if they wanted to. let alone 200 billion or 3 hundre billion . so their credit wont be as good as iraqs .. .. iraq will do something here during this year that will suprise alot of people and i want in onit .. if i can .. if not ,, well ill just keep plugging away as i have been my whole life . // but to sit here day in and day out .. saying this will never come true .. .. thats the part that needs some explaining .. those are the questionbs that are never answered truthfully ....claimig to be humanitarians .. trying to save peope from investing in iraq ..who are you a democrat that claimed iraq would never become successful .. and now you try to save face .. by trying to get people to quit investing in iraq . well thats not going to happen ..george bush was right and iraq has alot to offer the world and should not be held back by a dictatorship .. democrats were wrong as usual ..

THE END

[dinarck]

Typical response (over 2 years now) from a thug wannabe. The only thing you're right about is that you think you're always right! Guessing about something that has not happen yet does not make you right.

Funny how you have never even once attempted to explain where I am wrong. Only whining.

Something that hasn't happened yet? What do you mean. Nothing is going to happen caz. That's the whole point. You and thousands of others have been lied to for so long that you expect something to either happen or not. Even after ten years of nothing happening you still think something is going to happen. Haha....such is dinar delusion.

Once again. They will RD or they won't RD and keep functioning in a hyperinflated state. There is nothing else Mr. Positive.

[caz1104]

Funny how you have never even once attempted to explain where I am wrong. Only whining.

Something that hasn't happened yet? What do you mean. Nothing is going to happen caz. That's the whole point. You and thousands of others have been lied to for so long that you expect something to either happen or not. Even after ten years of nothing happening you still think something is going to happen. Haha....such is dinar delusion.

Once again. They will RD or they won't RD and keep functioning in a hyperinflated state. There is nothing else Mr. Positive.

As I have said countless times, I and many others entered into this SPECULATIVE investment knowing full well the possibilities. I ventured what I could afford to lose,similar in thinking to when I visit Vegas. If I when............great. If I lose............I lose,the sun will still come up in the morning(in my world at least,sorry bout the dark clouds in yours). Nothing ventured nothing gained. At least I had the b*lls to accept this fact and not cry and blame others. To try to impress others with perceived after the fact intelligence shows..............lack there of-peace.

[hame55]

dinarck, go figure it didn't lop yet........... odd isn't it......

VERY good to see ya back, Sonny! Where have you been?

We're almost there! LOL

----------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone answer me how many of these "really poor" countries were on a programmed rate? And how many of them couldnt even get the market rate to match the "official rate"??

-----------------------------------------------------------

The market rate is lower than the official rate because they've been trained to trust dollars with Big Daddy invading. That's over now and they need to be retrained to trust the dinar. The best way to do that is dedollarize and raise the rate of the dinar significantly.

program rates are for minitoring purposes only .. after the monitoring takes place for a set time period .. those poor countrys are determined their currencys worth .. most didnt have any worth to speak of and the exchange rates dropped off or stayed the same ..

________________________________________________

Very good thoughts here on laundering - do you think they are getting dollars for their illegal activities?

Edited January 15, 2013 by hame55

[keepmwlknfny]

Hame,

I understand the need to de-dollarize...and the best way is to have a dinar on par with the USD.....just making a point that if the programmed rate were to be taken away at this moment, the dinar would most likely lose value because of the low demand....

Other countries that have RD, didnt have a programmed rate....they had their true rate and when they were stablized they went through with the process....Iraq has much more to lose if they dont get it right the first time....it was just thoughts as to reasons why IF they were going to RD, why there has been so much delay....

[Darin]

Well of course Darin.....they are simply hiding the RV by threatening all this time to RD. Makes sense. Kinda. Only problem is there is no such thing as a RV like everyone has been led to believe in.

A while back I attempted to start a discussion with you about the inflation that a giant leap in currency value would no doubt cause. They thread was locked shortly after. Shocking huh? Anyway there is no better person on this site to address it than you so fire away.

And RVers remind me of the kids who throw a tantrum when they are told there is no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny. Is too...is too...mommy and daddy says so.

Sorry you don't like my tone but I could really care less. Fact is you don't know me or have half a clue as to my personality or self esteem. The thing you are really having trouble with is my message. You know I am right and are starting to feel silly. It's OK. I felt silly too when I woke up from the Dinar coma. If you really want to talk about self esteem then start with RVers like yourself who refuse to face reality and instead whine about the meanies who don't agree with them.

Don't recall the locked threat, but I do know that they happen from time to time.

In many of the threads that I have posted in for adding my $.02, I attempt to look at alternative ways to raise the value..... There is no historic proof of the methods I have suggested, but than again each method could simply be new regardless.

Each of my ideas likely has their own flaws and additional arguments of why would the CBI or the GOI do that, as it would essentially hurt themselves, etc. But, what it really comes down to is simply a weighing the pros and cons of each possible alternative.

First, lets look at how a currency within a nation that is quickly appreciating can benefit the holders within that country (I am speaking of the Iraqi citizens holding IQD). If their 25,000 IQD (Roughly $21) was able to purchase a sack of seed/flour one day, than quickly or shortly following (within a few days) was able to buy two sacks of seed/flour, because the 25,000 IQD became worth roughly $42, that is a benefit for the Iraqi people holding IQD. Now the adjustment in the rate would give some of the people the ability to afford additional goods/services. It could possibly stimulate the economy, boost confidence in the IQD (while increasing demand), and help ease tensions of the people who are living in poverty (which may reduce conflicts). The cons of this could lead to an improper trade balance (i.e., more imports vs. exports). To put this into perspective, if your importing more than your exporting, your essentially spending more than your making. One of the surprising areas that the media doesn't cover much (so I have no idea how well they're doing unless I do deep research) is how the private sector is doing. A strong private sector can greatly reduce the need for imports. Iraq used to be known for some of the best agricultural farming in that region. So I am curious how that has come along in recent years? Last I read a big issue was with banks and not really allowing loans which was suppressing the agricultural sector to grow. Would substantial changes in the currency rate affect the private sector? Not so much, because pricing of goods/services would adjust accordingly to meet the new market rates.

Lets say a Iraqi is paid in daily wages of roughly 20,000 IQD a day. He gets done with work and heads to a barber to get a haircut or beard trimming and spends 10,000 IQD. The next day, the rate changes where the value of IQD is now double, (I.e., instead of 1170, the rate is 585). The next day the worker heads to work, finishes work for the day and he is paid 10,000 IQD. First, he would be angry at the reduced pay, but as he went to the store to purchase goods, he will realize that his ordinary purchases are cut in half. The amount held in the hand of each individual prior to any adjustment of the rate is what is gained or lost by the holder. The thought process of this concept is why some believe that the Iraqi's will not benefit as much vs. foreign speculators. I beg to differ, because using that theory says that they only depend on their private sector to live.. They would also benefit (businesses & individuals) by being able to import twice as much.

The state that their country is in at the moment, I don't think it would really hurt them to have a nasty trade deficit at the moment. Importing goods such as computers, phones, appliances, raw materials, and other products may help boost the country within itself. By doing this, they could quickly and substantially increase the standard of living. In due time, they can improve the private sector with services and private retailers, which in turn will gives others jobs continuing the cycle of employing others while creating demand for goods/services that will lead to new jobs (and new businesses). As the business sector flourishes, the GOI can benefit from a taxation system (i.e., business taxes, individual taxes) which can help pay for state services (i.e., building roads, school funding, etc).

So, we can get an idea what a significant rate change can do internally to help boost the economy. The next part are off-the-wall thinking outside the box ways to support a higher value.

1.) If Iraq were to maintain a trade surplus, steady growth, which exclude crude & natural gas exports.... This means that the country is growing even without the fact they're exporting oil/gas. If the country could hit that point and manage their finances properly, who is to say that they can't consume foreign held IQD in exchange for crude. I know many would say "Can't happen, its sold in USD.." While that may be true, but could you simply sign an agreement to work with the CBI to say, we'll allow the exchange of USD for IQD at this amount as long as you directly turn around and purchase X amount of crude? The IQD has been piggy-backing the value of USD for years, so in essence, this could push international demand for IQD to be on par w/ the USD all while making it be that on a global basis that crude is still sold in USD (on the market).. The idea likely has numerous flaws, but could also be tweaked I am sure to work.

2.) Bonds - sell bonds to help purchase up the massive amounts of IQD claimed in circulation.

3.) Most logical and potential solution, is to create multiple R/Vs. (Nothing over night, but significant raises in value). The idea is to widen the spread, R/V to X amount, where the value is still likely appealing to foreign investors to buy-in. The widened spread can simply use the profits made to simply pay for the money lost upon each adjustment.

4.) Slowly appreciate the value each quarter. This means every 3 months raise the value.... I.e., from 1170 maybe to 900. 3 months later to 850, etc. and so forth. And if need be, to scare speculators, 3 months from the adjustment to 850 raise it to 875.. After a flush of investors cash-out, go down to 700.

Many of us can see how a $3 overnight R/V seems like a pipe dream. If as many IQD are held by foreign speculators as believed, that would be devastating to the country... Pretty sure all active members of DV alone would bankrupt the reserves of the CBI within a matter of days at that rate.

However, many of us can see a R/D (lop) as a threat to our own ROI % on the IQD, especially considering that many of us paid premiums to get the currency we hold. Ironically, I think the delays may be hurting the CBI if they were to intend or wish to R/D. Okay, lets say the M2 is roughly 70 trillion. Of that M2, foreign speculation accounts for 60%, (42 trillion). The CBI goes ahead and decides to R/D their currency (remove 3 zeros)... Some foreign speculators decide to cash out and run away because their ROI% is reduced and or fear of no way of cashing out. Lets say 75% decide to go this route. (0.75% of 42 trillion = 31.5 trillion)... Just using mock #s, the CBI would have to cash out again 31.5 trillion IQD in existence. A little under 50% of their reserves would take a substantial hit.. Not to mention the fear within the local market that the dumping of IQD may do (especially if ppl pull out of Warka or the ISX).

Granted, we're seeing an even exchange and every current IQD still within circulation would be backed at the same ratio (i..e, 1170 or 1.17), but no way that type of cash flooding would make the CBI feel comfortable.

This is one of the reasons I've always thought & felt a slow rising value makes more sense vs. a sudden change in value appreciation or even a LOP.

[dontlop]

Dollarization

Types

Dollarization can occur in a number of situations. The most popular type of dollarization is unofficial dollarization or de facto dollarization. Unofficial dollarization happens when residents of a country choose to hold a significant share of their financial assets denominated in foreign currency although the foreign currency lacks the legal tender.[7] They hold deposits in the foreign currency because of a bad track record of the local currency, or as a hedge against inflation of the domestic currency.

Official dollarization or full dollarization happens when a country adopts a foreign currency as its sole legal tender, and ceases to issue the domestic currency. Another effect of a country adopting a foreign currency as its own is that the country gives up all power to vary its exchange rate. There is a small number of countries adopting a foreign currency as legal tender. For example, Panama underwent a process of full dollarization by adopting the U.S. dollar as legal tender in 1904. This type of dollarization is also known as de jure dollarization.

Dollarization can be used semiofficially (or officially bimonetary systems), where the foreign currency is legal tender alongside the domestic currency.[8]

In literature, there is a set of related definitions of dollarization such as external liability dollarization, domestic liability dollarization, banking sector's liability dollarization or namely deposit dollarization and credit dollarlization. The external liability dollarization measures total external debt (private and public) denominated in foreign currencies of the economy.[8][9] Deposit dollarization can be measured as the share of dollar deposit in total deposit of the banking system while credit dollarization can be measured as the share of dollar credit in total credit of the banking system.[10]

Effects

On trade and investment

One of the main advantages of adopting of a strong foreign currency as sole legal tender is to reduce the transaction costs of trade among countries using the same currency.[11] There are at least two ways to infer this impact from data. The first one is a significantly negative effect of exchange rate volatility on trade in most cases, and the second is an association between transaction costs and the need to operate with multiple currencies.[12] Economic integration with the rest of the world becomes easier as a result of lowered transaction costs and stabler prices in dollar terms.[13] Rose (2000) applied the gravity model of trade and provided empirical evidence that countries sharing a common currency engage in significantly increased trade among them, and that the benefits of dollarization for trade may be large.[14]

Dollarized economies can invoke greater confidence among international investors, inducing increased investments and growth. The elimination of the currency crisis risk due to full dollarization leads to a reduction of country risk premiums and then to lower interest rates.[13] These effects result in a higher level of investment. However, there is a positive association between dollarization and interest rates in a dual-currency economy.[15]

On monetary and exchange rate policies

Official dollarization helps to promote fiscal and monetary discipline and thus greater macroeconomic stability and lower inflation rates, to lower real exchange rate volatility, and possibly to deepen the financial system.[12] Firstly, dollarization helps developing countries, providing a firm commitment to stable monetary and exchange rate policies by forcing a passive monetary. Adopting a strong foreign currency as legal tender will help to "eliminate the inflation-bias problem of discretionary monetary policy".[16] Secondly, official dollarization imposes stronger financial constraint on the government by eliminating deficit financing by issuing money.[17] An empirical finding suggests that inflation has been significantly lower in dollarized nations than in non-dollarized ones.[18] The expected benefit of dollarization is the elimination of the risk of exchange rate fluctuations and a possible reduction in the country's international exposure. Though dollarization cannot eliminate the risk of an external crisis, it provides steadier markets as a result of eliminating fluctuations in exchange rates.[13]

On the other hand, dollarization leads to the loss of seigniorage revenue, the loss of monetary policy autonomy, and the loss of the exchange rate instruments. Seigniorage revenues are the profits generated when monetary authorities issue currency. When adopting a foreign currency as legal tender, a monetary authority needs to withdraw the domestic currency and give up future seigniorage revenue. The country loses the rights to its autonomous monetary and exchange rate policies, even in times of financial emergency;[13][19] former chairman of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan, for example, has stated that the central bank only considers the effects of its decisions on the US economy.[20] In a full dollarized economy, exchange rates are indeterminate and monetary authorities cannot devalue.[21] In a highly dollarized economy, devaluation policy is less effective in changing the real exchange rate because of significant pass-through effects to domestic prices.[13] However, the cost of losing an independent monetary policy exists when domestic monetary authorities can commit an effective counter-cyclical monetary policy, stabilizing the business cycle. This cost depends adversely on the correlation between the business cycle of the client country (the dollarized economy) and the business cycle of the anchor country.[11] In addition, monetary authorities in dollarized economies diminish the liquidity assurance to their banking system.[13][22]

[edit] On banking systems

In a fully dollarized economy, monetary authorities cannot act as lender of last resort to commercial banks by printing money. The alternatives to lending to the bank system may include taxation and issuing government debt.[23] The loss of the lender of last resort is considered a cost of full dollarization. This cost depends on the initial level of unofficial dollarization before moving to a full dollarized economy. This relation is negative because in a heavily dollarized economy, the central bank already fears difficulties in providing liquidity assurance to the banking system.[24] However, literature points out the existence of alternative mechanisms to provide liquidity insurance to banks, such as a scheme by which the international financial community charges an insurance fee in exchange for a commitment to lend to a domestic bank.[25]

Commercial banks in countries where saving accounts and loans in foreign currency are allowed may face two types of risks:

1.Currency mismatch risk: Assets and liabilities on the balance sheets may be in different denominations. This may arise if the bank converts foreign currency deposits into local currency and lends in local currency, or vice versa.

2.Default risk: Arises if the bank uses the foreign currency deposits to lend in foreign currency.[26]

However, dollarization eliminates the probability of a currency crisis that impacts negatively on the banking system through the balance sheet channel. Dollarization may reduce the possibility of systematic liquidity shortages and the optimal reserves in the banking system.[27] Research has shown that official dollarization has played a significant role in improving bank liquidity and asset quality in Ecuador and El Salvador.[28]

The dynamics of the flight from domestic money

High and unanticipated inflation rates decrease the demand for domestic money and raise the demand for alternative assets, including foreign currency and assets dominated by foreign currency. This phenomenon is called the "flight from domestic money". It results in a rapid and sizable process of dollarization.[29] In countries with high inflation rates, the domestic currency tends to be gradually displaced by a stable currency, such as the U.S. dollar. At the beginning of this process, the store-of-value function of the domestic currency is replaced by the foreign currency. Then, the unit-of-account function of the domestic currency is displaced when many prices are quoted in a foreign currency. A prolonged period of high inflation will induce the domestic currency to lose its function as medium of exchange when the public carries out many transactions in foreign currency.[30]

Ize and Levy-Yeyati (1998) examine the determinants of deposit and credit dollarization, concluding that dollarization is driven by the volatility of inflation and the real exchange rate. Dollarization increases with inflation volatility and decreases with the volatility of the real exchange rate.[31]

[edit] Institutional factors

The flight from domestic money depends on a country's institutional factors. The first factor is the level of development of the domestic financial market. An economy with a well-developed financial market can offer a set of alternative financial instruments dominated in domestic currency, reducing the role of foreign currency as an inflation hedge. The pattern of the dollarization process also varies across countries with different foreign exchange and capital controls. In a country with strict foreign exchange regulations, the demand for foreign currency will be satisfied in the holding of foreign currency assets abroad and outside the domestic banking system. This demand often puts pressure on the parallel market of foreign currency and on the country's international reserves.[29] Evidence for this pattern is given in the absence of dollarization during the pre-reform period in most transition economies, because of constricted controls on foreign exchange and the banking system.[32] In contrary, by facilitating the domestic holding of foreign currency, a country might mitigate the shift of assets abroad and strengthen its external reserves in exchange for a dollarization process. However, the effect of this regulation on the pattern of dollarization depends on the public's expectations of macroeconomic stability and the sustainability of the foreign exchange regime.[29]

Edited January 15, 2013 by dontlop

[dinarck]

As I have said countless times, I and many others entered into this SPECULATIVE investment knowing full well the possibilities. I ventured what I could afford to lose,similar in thinking to when I visit Vegas. If I when............great. If I lose............I lose,the sun will still come up in the morning(in my world at least,sorry bout the dark clouds in yours). Nothing ventured nothing gained. At least I had the b*lls to accept this fact and not cry and blame others. To try to impress others with perceived after the fact intelligence shows..............lack there of-peace.

O great.....since you got into this full well knowing the possibilities then its ok for you to pump hype the impossible.

You obviously don't know the possibilities or you would realize the RV your buddy Frank has promised you isn't possible.

What is it you are even waiting for Caz? A RV? Of how much? 10%? 100%? 1000%? 10,000%? 100,000%? Please explain why you believe that RVs like these can be done in economics. Please explain why Iraq is the only special country who is allowed to do it. Please explain why Iraq would do it. Please explain something instead of constantly crying about someone who is mean. Whaaaaa.

Your the one talking about possibilities and that you are fully aware of them. Show me how its possible.

I didn't think so. Now run back to the main forums where everyone is positive and nice.

[Bumper64]

These threads sometimes get locked because of how you talk to each other! Just because this is the lopster tank doesn't mean that the same rules to this site don't still apply!!

PLAY NICE!!!!

[dinarck]

Thanks Darin....

You really have made my point for me. Say they do double the value of the dinar like you gave an example of. Yeah that would create a demand for computers and goods and what ever and we all know what demand does to prices. It raises them. In other words it inflates them. This is all a RV would do is inflated the newly RVed Dinar. The very definition of inflation is too much money chasing to few goods and services. Why would Iraqi Joe sell his camel for 100,000 dinar when the demand for camels is now through the roof thanks to the "RV"? He would sell it for 200,000 dinar because people would be willing to pay it.

There is no past history of a massive RV for this very reason. The more there is of something the less its worth. You don't change that by saying....OK....now each one is worth more. Say 100 trillion pounds of gold was discovered tomorrow. Do you think it will still be worth 1600 an ounce the next day? I think you are sharp enough to know what I am saying is correct.

[dontlop]

Lender of last resort

A lender of last resort serves as a stopgap to protect depositors, prevent widespread panic withdrawal, and otherwise avoid disruption in productive credit to the entire economy caused by the collapse of one or a handful of institutions. Borrowing from the lender of last resort by commercial banks is usually not done except in times of crisis. This is because borrowing from the lender of last resort indicates that the institution in question has taken on too much risk, or that the institution is experiencing financial difficulties (since it is often only possible when the borrower is near collapse).

In the United States the Federal Reserve serves as the lender of last resort to those institutions that cannot obtain credit elsewhere and the collapse of which would have serious implications for the economy. It took over this role from the private sector "clearing houses" which operated during the Free Banking Era; whether public or private, the availability of liquidity was intended to prevent bank runs.

Within other major world economies this role is undertaken by the Bank of England in the United Kingdom (the central bank of the UK), in Switzerland by the Swiss National Bank, in Japan by the Bank of Japan and in Russia by the Central Bank of Russia.

JPMorgan Chase and HSBC are examples of non-central banks that have acted as a lender of last resort on several occasions.[1] J.P. Morgan himself, as an individual, is considered to have played the role of a lender of last resort during the Panic of 1907.

iraq can do anything they choose

they can print up one note worth 72 trillion dinars ... keep it in the cbi .. and borrow from it when ever they choose

iraq would only be responsible for the dinars that are out side of the cbi

[Darin]

Thanks Darin....

You really have made my point for me. Say they do double the value of the dinar like you gave an example of. Yeah that would create a demand for computers and goods and what ever and we all know what demand does to prices. It raises them. In other words it inflates them. This is all a RV would do is inflated the newly RVed Dinar. The very definition of inflation is too much money chasing to few goods and services. Why would Iraqi Joe sell his camel for 100,000 dinar when the demand for camels is now through the roof thanks to the "RV"? He would sell it for 200,000 dinar because people would be willing to pay it.

There is no past history of a massive RV for this very reason. The more there is of something the less its worth. You don't change that by saying....OK....now each one is worth more. Say 100 trillion pounds of gold was discovered tomorrow. Do you think it will still be worth 1600 an ounce the next day? I think you are sharp enough to know what I am saying is correct.

Lot of other variables and issues to consider:

Any inflation could very well likely be temporary as the imports would catch up to the new demand.

A competitive market could simply exploit the disparity of the supply & demand by order products (Importing products) and selling the highly desired items.

A doubling of the value would eventually stabilize...

[dontlop]

if iraq has a 100 trillion dinar note .. and they use it to loan out promisary note to their citizens .. as long as each transaction is accounted for .. its all legitimate .. each citizen takes out a loan and agrees to pay it back with interest , they log every transaction ,, their books show all the increases in numbers being generated through interest payments

now iraq cant go around the world buying things with 100 trilliondinar notes .. but domestically they can do anything they choose ..they can use cans of beans for currency if they choose ... what we hold is iraq local currency that got away .. maybe purposly . for repayment to the world for its freedom .. who knows .. they know its out .. they know we have it .. they know they cant delete hard cash ,, but they know how much is out here .. whether it be 3% .. 7% .. what ever .. and they do have the knowledge of how to get it back legally ..im waiting to see their offer ..

iraq can run deficits just like everyone else does .. there no different

Edited January 15, 2013 by dontlop

[dontlop]

china said it would not revalue its currency ,, the day before they did it ..

point is these things are done covertly

whats the hold up . ?

the exact numbers lining up.. the day is coming .. one way or the other ,

books have to be in order when they present their data

[dinarck]

Lot of other variables and issues to consider:

Any inflation could very well likely be temporary as the imports would catch up to the new demand.

A competitive market could simply exploit the disparity of the supply & demand by order products (Importing products) and selling the highly desired items.

A doubling of the value would eventually stabilize...

Yet the "RV" had no effect. People spent all of the dinar that they had that was "RVed" on Chinese imported junk at massively marked up prices by vendors exploiting the new wealth. So demand soon falls for such junk and prices stabilize back to where they were. Great RV that was. Now Iraqis have a bunch of junk and no money. Jobs don't get created. Income doesn't improve. It's basically a handout of junk from the government that could never happen in economics.

Why don't all countries with hyperinflated currencies do this? What are they waiting for? Iraq included? The answer is simple. Inflation. Any economist on earth knows this cannot ever work so its not even thought of.

It would be the same with rent in housing, land payments, rent in apartments. They would be through the roof because people would be willing to pay them but only until their newly "RVed" dinar runs out and then what? Can you say housing bubble? Their jobs certainly aren't going to pay them more.

The bottom line is that prices would rise right along with the currency value which makes a RV pointless. Even if it subsides it doesn't matter. Nothing was gained.

Iraqis need good paying jobs not mythical RVs that would never work.

china said it would not revalue its currency ,, the day before they did it .. :moon-from-car:/>

point is these things are done covertly B)/>

whats the hold up . ?

the exact numbers lining up.. the day is coming .. one way or the other ,

books have to be in order when they present their data

Again with the China RV? When did China have a hyperinflated currency? O nevermind. It was decades ago back when they redenominated.

You are still failing to grasp the hyperinflation concept. China RVed like 35% over a period of time. What good is that going to do you with the dinar?

[dontlop]

Yet the "RV" had no effect. People spent all of the dinar that they had that was "RVed" on Chinese imported junk at massively marked up prices by vendors exploiting the new wealth. So demand soon falls for such junk and prices stabilize back to where they were. Great RV that was. Now Iraqis have a bunch of junk and no money. Jobs don't get created. Income doesn't improve. It's basically a handout of junk from the government that could never happen in economics.

Why don't all countries with hyperinflated currencies do this? What are they waiting for? Iraq included? The answer is simple. Inflation. Any economist on earth knows this cannot ever work so its not even thought of.

It would be the same with rent in housing, land payments, rent in apartments. They would be through the roof because people would be willing to pay them but only until their newly "RVed" dinar runs out and then what? Can you say housing bubble? Their jobs certainly aren't going to pay them more.

The bottom line is that prices would rise right along with the currency value which makes a RV pointless. Even if it subsides it doesn't matter. Nothing was gained.

Iraqis need good paying jobs not mythical RVs that would never work.

Again with the China RV? When did China have a hyperinflated currency? O nevermind. It was decades ago back when they redenominated.

You are still failing to grasp the hyperinflation concept. China RVed like 35% over a period of time. What good is that going to do you with the dinar?

please quit crying

[dinarck]

please quit crying :butt-kicking:/>

Lol.....yeah. Make your little kicking animation. That really solidifies your argument. NOT!!

So nothing to say about your China RV huh? Not surprising. RVers use that card all the time. It's sad that people actually buy into it like it means anything.

[dontlop]

Lol.....yeah. Make your little kicking animation. That really solidifies your argument. NOT!!

So nothing to say about your China RV huh? Not surprising. RVers use that card all the time. It's sad that people actually buy into it like it means anything.

im sorry i didnt mean to hurt your feelings .. i should of realized you were such a softy .. whhat being such a humanitarian and all . you just keep coming back and make sure no one buys any dinars cause you dont believe it will benifit them .. you are such a nice person .,, i will never play with your emotions again .. i humbly appologize

[dinarck]

im sorry i didnt mean to hurt your feelings .. i should of realized you were such a softy .. whhat being such a humanitarian and all . you just keep coming back and make sure no one buys any dinars cause you dont believe it will benifit them .. you are such a nice person .,, i will never play with your emotions again .. i humbly appologize :ph34r:/>

Why don't you try backing up your China RV point you were trying to make instead of playing with the emotion buttons like that makes your posts unique or something.

Maybe you can't back it up because it is meaningless.

[dontlop]

please quit crying :butt-kicking:/>

[hame55]

Hame,

I understand the need to de-dollarize...and the best way is to have a dinar on par with the USD.....just making a point that if the programmed rate were to be taken away at this moment, the dinar would most likely lose value because of the low demand....

Other countries that have RD, didnt have a programmed rate....they had their true rate and when they were stablized they went through with the process....Iraq has much more to lose if they dont get it right the first time....it was just thoughts as to reasons why IF they were going to RD, why there has been so much delay....

KEEP

I understand your points. The dinar might lose value if deprogrammed - but would depend on circumstances that might make dinar more attractive, new laws, etc.

Secondly, they do have a lot to lose making a mistake. That's why I think that logically it has taken 10 years to set the stage for a revalue/ RI because of the necessary ducks lined up in a row. Setting the stage for an RD is much easier - print new bills, educate a little, and dump the zeros.

Hyperinflation.................over and over again. Does anybody truly know what happened when the Bremer dinar replace Saddam's notes? Were they traded one to one?

Why would the CPI under Bremer replace the trillions with more inflated trillions?

This is crucial to this deal, as many trillions in circulation means RD more than likely.

[makecents]

i know .. im not good at bringing fourth every detail to cover every question that could arise form every scenario possible to every situation .. thats eternal in speculating .. but what i think a possibility is .. they dont just delete them .. they convert them to the new dinar with the same value at 1000 to one ..just for their electronic dinars they they hold in the cbi .. that would mean they lose not a penny on their transaction.. .. im sorry if you were offended ..

First, I took no offense what so ever from your post. I'm not sure how you might have gotten that idea but please understand such is not the case. I'm here for a good discussion so speculate away! I don't think any such speculations will be found to be possible, but lets hash it out and see.

To summarize your idea: Iraq would RD the 65T IQD in electronic funds but RV the 10T IQD in physical cash at 120x its current value (i.e. RV physical cash to $0.10) and they would finance this physical cash RV with $1T in new debt. Thus your 25,000 IQD note is exchanged for about 2,880 IQN (new dinars) worth $2,500 USD while the 25,000 IQD you have in the bank is exchanged for 25 IQN worth the same $21.50 USD, where the IQN exchanges at $0.86 IQN per 1$ USD (1000:1). Right?

I don't think its possible for two reasons:

1) Treating electronic currency differently than physical currency would constitute banking fraud (on a massive scale) and violate all their international agreements. Iraq very much wants support from the IMF, World Bank, and international businesses and their own people. Having those that trusted the bank and deposited their savings get nothing (i.e. an RD is value neutral) but the folks that kept physical cash get a 12,000% return would do just the opposite. It would be chaos in country and end all relationships with the international banking and business community.

2) Iraq is already in debt to the tune of about $125B USD according to the IMF, which comes out to about 85% of GDP (with GDP of $143B USD). It certainly is true that debt is not necessarily bad and can be payed off and renewed forever as long as it does not get to be too high compared to GDP. At 100% of GDP folks are worried (i.e. the US), at 150% - 200% folks are really worried (e.g. Greece and Japan). Note that Greece is a bigger worry than Japan despite Japan having a worse debt to GDP ratio due to Japan having a much more robust and broad economy while Greece's economy much narrower and is linked to all the other Eurozone countries while Japan is on its own. Here you are suggesting that Iraq (with a very narrow oil based economy) take on new debt equal to 700% of GDP. This would turn their projected 10% GDP growth into more like 50% GDP decline and bring about major depression and economic collapse. Government spending is a key direct and indirect driver of their economy (i.e. direct spending and indirect infrastructure improvements that enables growth). But with such a huge debt burden most government programs would have to stop to divert nearly all oil revenue to paying the interest on such a massive debt. It would be a disaster, and that of course assumes anyone would lend Iraq $1T dollars. Despite the fact that they have potential, they also have very high risk due to political instability. After all it is easy to imagine that Iraq will still collapse into civil war or the Kurds will secede etc.

So no way will that work. Next? :)/>

[dinarck]

Good post makecents. Reminds me of a very smart individual we use to have around here before he/she was banished.

Edited January 15, 2013 by dinarck

[dontlop]

First, I took no offense what so ever from your post. I'm not sure how you might have gotten that idea but please understand such is not the case. I'm here for a good discussion so speculate away! I don't think any such speculations will be found to be possible, but lets hash it out and see.

To summarize your idea: Iraq would RD the 65T IQD in electronic funds but RV the 10T IQD in physical cash at 120x its current value (i.e. RV physical cash to $0.10) and they would finance this physical cash RV with $1T in new debt. Thus your 25,000 IQD note is exchanged for about 2,880 IQN (new dinars) worth $2,500 USD while the 25,000 IQD you have in the bank is exchanged for 25 IQN worth the same $21.50 USD, where the IQN exchanges at $0.86 IQN per 1$ USD (1000:1). Right?

I don't think its possible for two reasons:

1) Treating electronic currency differently than physical currency would constitute banking fraud (on a massive scale) and violate all their international agreements. Iraq very much wants support from the IMF, World Bank, and international businesses and their own people. Having those that trusted the bank and deposited their savings get nothing (i.e. an RD is value neutral) but the folks that kept physical cash get a 12,000% return would do just the opposite. It would be chaos in country and end all relationships with the international banking and business community.

2) Iraq is already in debt to the tune of about $125B USD according to the IMF, which comes out to about 85% of GDP (with GDP of $143B USD). It certainly is true that debt is not necessarily bad and can be payed off and renewed forever as long as it does not get to be too high compared to GDP. At 100% of GDP folks are worried (i.e. the US), at 150% - 200% folks are really worried (e.g. Greece and Japan). Note that Greece is a bigger worry than Japan despite Japan having a worse debt to GDP ratio due to Japan having a much more robust and broad economy while Greece's economy much narrower and is linked to all the other Eurozone countries while Japan is on its own. Here you are suggesting that Iraq (with a very narrow oil based economy) take on new debt equal to 700% of GDP. This would turn their projected 10% GDP growth into more like 50% GDP decline and bring about major depression and economic collapse. Government spending is a key direct and indirect driver of their economy (i.e. direct spending and indirect infrastructure improvements that enables growth). But with such a huge debt burden most government programs would have to stop to divert nearly all oil revenue to paying the interest on such a massive debt. It would be a disaster, and that of course assumes anyone would lend Iraq $1T dollars. Despite the fact that they have potential, they also have very high risk due to political instability. After all it is easy to imagine that Iraq will still collapse into civil war or the Kurds will secede etc.

So no way will that work. Next? :)/>/>

they dont have an international currency at this point they can do what ever they want with their currency .... they can use cans of dog food for their local currency and feed it to their dogs if they choose ..and when its all gone they can shoot the dogs and use their fur for currency .. the iraqi dinar has nothing to do with international anything .. if they do go international with their new currency then that currency would have to comply with international standards .. ..if they choose to delete half their dinars and double their value they dont have to ask permission .. they just do it .. they just keep the books up to date so the international community knows what they are doing when they do go international with their new currency ...the 1166 rate was set up with the imf for monitoring purposes only .. .. i think they should use barrels of oil for currency .. try carrying those around in your pocket .. money is no different than a coupon. the dinar is an iraqi coupon ..they only have to honor those dinars that are not in the cbi.. those at the cbi could all become one dinar worth 50 billion dollars if they want to .. that would be a huge rv .. but they could put a different value on those remaining dinars .... the other 10 trilion .. those dinars belong to iraq ... not the imf or the world bank ..

[dontlop]

makecents >>>?

what international aggrements does iraq have concerning their dinar .. ?

since you question my crap .. i thought id question yours .. 1) Treating electronic currency differently than physical currency would constitute banking fraud (on a massive scale) and violate all their international agreements.

Read more:

what international agreements are you talking about .. maybe i can learn something here .. >>> next :)/>

Edited January 15, 2013 by dontlop