Whats the hold up?

[dinarck]

Yes Darin we are truely on the same page.

I have been saying for a long time now that the dinar is a LONG TERM speculation IF they don't redenominate. I really am not even sure if the returns would be worth the wait but its the only way any of us will make any money off of the dinar.

[dontlop]

But dontlop, the U.S. government has no use for oil. It doesn't own any refineries. So what value is dinar to it?

dude no one buys things internationally , these things are arranged through the world trade organization and the imf ..thats what they do .. importing and exporting currency exchanges go through the world trade organization ..iraq may do a billion dollars worth of business with the united states ,,and we may do 2 billion with them.. leaving a one billion trade deficit .. our govt wil credit iraq with 1 billion electronic dollars .. but each american company doesnt write checks to each company in every country of the world they do business with ,..

The IMF and the WTO are international organizations with nearly 150 members in common. While the IMF's central focus is on the international monetary and financial system, and the WTO's is on the international trading system, both work together to ensure a sound system for global trade and payments.

they work with international payment cirtificates where you declare your valuue of you business .. each member country has a payment fund .. you pay into it .. you dont pay the business in the other country .. they have a system of credits and debtits .... if i owned a refinery and wanted some oil .. i pay through the wto .. they collect from the wto ...they dont get a check form a bank in texas to cash in iraq for dolars ....

but any way the us govt has a military that does use oil , but thats besids the point ..all world trade is done through the imf and the world trade organization .. and its set up with currency exchanges and tarriffs ,, its quite a bit to learn that operation .... so

if iraq ends up buying 15 billion dollars worth of stuff from us a year ..and we end up buying 15 billion worth of oil .. theres no trade deficit either way .. its an even trade no cash changes hands ,, thats why iraq doesnt need to back all their dinars .. only those that are to be exchanged

the only reason for any exchange is if theres a trade deficit ,,as long as iraq is producing oil they are in business

its very important forthem to have a global currency as well as becoming a member of the wto. iraq is an international player .. its key to be in the wto

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/imfwto.htm

Edited January 17, 2013 by dontlop

[makecents]

Seems we are now entering the same page with the idea of thinking...

I still think a significantly reduced reserves is a big concern for the CBI as large reserves are necessary for protection.

I think they should develop a long-term plan to reduce what is in circulation over time, while slowly & consistently raising the value.

In the end, it would be that everyone wins..

Except the CBI. If it becomes clear that the IQD is consistently going up then more people will buy it which means more loses for the CBI so their reserves go down faster than M2 as they buy back. Plus a constantly changing exchange rate in an import dominated country is terrible for business and consumers as prices keep changing. Recall that Shabibi often said that one of the key missions of the CBI is exchange rate stability. This is why.

And for a different perspective on just how much is 1T IQD. Here is a fun link about how large a stack of bills is 1T USD in $100. So multiple this by 5 and you get about what it would be for using 25,000 IQD instead of $100 USD notes. Wow, is that one big pile-o bills!

[dontlop]

The key point you lave out Dontlop is that there are 75T of these coupons (IQD) out in the wild. And whatever rate they have for them must be available for all of them. Which is why that rate is defined by just M2/reserves. The indeed may someday redenominate, but that has no bearing on the value of the IQD.

dude you can forget about that 72 trillion number . that will go away once those electronic dinars are converted back into dolars prior to any reset of the iraqi currency ..most dinars are electronic now ,, the dinars are old worn and torn and mostly of the streets . its mostly dollarized at this point.. we hold the hard cash .. this is what they will be buying back ..or lose their reputation on the wto and imf .. ..

[makecents]

dude no one buys things internationally , these things are arranged through the world trade organization and the imf ..thats what they do .. importing and exporting currency exchanges go through the world trade organization ..iraq may do a billion dollars worth of business with the united states ,,and we may do 2 billion with them.. leaving a one billion trade deficit .. our govt wil credit iraq with 1 billion electronic dollars .. but each american company doesnt write checks to each company in every country of the world they do business with ,..

Total 100% nonsense. Each company does indeed write checks to each other company they buy from. I've worked for several large international corporations and had many talks with the CFOs of these firms and in no case has any of them had any dealings or interactions of any kind with the WTO or IMF.

dude you can forget about that 72 trillion number . that will go away once those electronic dinars are converted back into dolars prior to any reset of the iraqi currency ..most dinars are electronic now ,, the dinars are old worn and torn and mostly of the streets . its mostly dollarized at this point.. we hold the hard cash .. this is what they will be buying back ..or lose their reputation on the wto and imf .. ..

As of Dec 2011 there were 28T IQD in physical cash (M0), another 34T in on demand deposits (so M1 = 62T) and another 10T in non on-demand deposits (so M2=72T). Now a year later all those are likely 5% higher. I have no idea what you are talking about wrt converting electronic IQD to dollars as it makes no difference if they are physical or electronic, a dinar is a dinar. The CBi can convert them to dollars at the current rate, but at the expense of lowering their reserves. And of course they don't want to convert them to dollars, then want to get rid of dollars.

[RVPleaseToday]

"if iraq ends up buying 15 billion dollars worth of stuff from us a year ..and we end up buying 15 billion worth of oil .. theres no trade deficit either way .. its an even trade no cash changes hands ,, thats why iraq doesnt need to back all their dinars .. only those that are to be exchanged

the only reason for any exchange is if theres a trade deficit ,,as long as iraq is producing oil they are in business

its very important forthem to have a global currency as well as becoming a member of the wto. iraq is an international player .. its key to be in the wto"

dontlop, the U.S. Government doesn't buy oil from Iraq. The military can't use unrefined oil in their vehicles. The US Government doesn't own any refineries. That's just simple fact, and I don't know why you continue to deny it. Oil is a red herring in dinar discussion.

[dontlop]

"if iraq ends up buying 15 billion dollars worth of stuff from us a year ..and we end up buying 15 billion worth of oil .. theres no trade deficit either way .. its an even trade no cash changes hands ,, thats why iraq doesnt need to back all their dinars .. only those that are to be exchanged

the only reason for any exchange is if theres a trade deficit ,,as long as iraq is producing oil they are in business

its very important forthem to have a global currency as well as becoming a member of the wto. iraq is an international player .. its key to be in the wto"

dontlop, the U.S. Government doesn't buy oil from Iraq. The military can't use unrefined oil in their vehicles. The US Government doesn't own any refineries. That's just simple fact, and I don't know why you continue to deny it. Oil is a red herring in dinar discussion.

[RVPleaseToday]

"the only reason for any exchange is if theres a trade deficit ,,as long as iraq is producing oil they are in business"

What are you talking about? I think you are just making stuff up.

[dontlop]

.

"the only reason for any exchange is if theres a trade deficit ,,as long as iraq is producing oil they are in business"

What are you talking about? I think you are just making stuff up.

YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE ISSUES .. I NEVER SAID THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT BUYS OIL FROM IRAQ IN THE FIRSTPLACE .AND I NEVER CLEY HAD REFINERIES .. YOUR JUST TRYING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS ON SOME STUPID TECHNICALITY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONTEXT . ..YOUR HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH YOUR UNSTABLE MIND AGAIN

WE MEANING ANYONE DOING BUSINESS FROM THIS COUNTRY TO ANY OTHER COUNTRY .. I TRIED TO EXPLAIN HOW THE WTO WORKS .. .. WE ANY CITIZEN ANY BUSNINESS ANY GOVT AGENCY .. THAT BUY ANYTHING , FROM ANY FORIEGN COUNTRY .. MUST GO THREOUGH THE WTO .. FOR TARRIFF PURPOSES .. AND CURRENCY EXCHANGES AND MANY OTHER REASONS .. WE .. DO NOT SEND CHECKS TO OTHER COUNTRYS FOR OIL .. OR AGRICULTURE PROCUCTS ..OR TEXTILES .. THESE THINGS ARE DONE WITH INTERNATIONAL TRADE CIRTIFICATES .. AND MONEY IS NOT EXCHANGED BETWEEN INDIVIDUAL BUISNESSES .. EACH COUNTRY HAS A FUNS AT THE WTO THAT IS CREDITED OR DEBTED .. AS THESE TRADE CIRTIFICATES ARE USED ..

WHATS NEXT YOU BOUGHT SOMETHING ON THE INTERNET , FRON ANOTHER COUNTRY AND DIDNT GOT THROUGH THE WTO RIGHT .. I GUESS YOU WILL HAVE MANY QUESTIONS .. YOU CAN GO BACK TO YOUR SEARCH ENGINE IF YOUR INTERESTED IN LEARNING

[RVPleaseToday]

WE ANY CITIZEN ANY BUSNINESS ANY GOVT AGENCY .. THAT BUY ANYTHING , FROM ANY FORIEGN COUNTRY .. MUST GO THREOUGH THE WTO"

But that is not correct. You don't seem to understand what the WTO actually does.

http://www.wto.org

Edited January 17, 2013 by RVPleaseToday

[dontlop]

Total 100% nonsense. Each company does indeed write checks to each other company they buy from. I've worked for several large international corporations and had many talks with the CFOs of these firms and in no case has any of them had any dealings or interactions of any kind with the WTO or IMF.

As of Dec 2011 there were 28T IQD in physical cash (M0), another 34T in on demand deposits (so M1 = 62T) and another 10T in non on-demand deposits (so M2=72T). Now a year later all those are likely 5% higher. I have no idea what you are talking about wrt converting electronic IQD to dollars as it makes no difference if they are physical or electronic, a dinar is a dinar. The CBi can convert them to dollars at the current rate, but at the expense of lowering their reserves. And of course they don't want to convert them to dollars, then want to get rid of dollars.

NO INTERNATIONAL CURRENCY CHANGES HANDS UNLESS THERES A TRADE DEFICIT .. I THINK IF YOU DID HAVE A JOB YOUR MOST LIKELY FIRED .

WE ANY CITIZEN ANY BUSNINESS ANY GOVT AGENCY .. THAT BUY ANYTHING , FROM ANY FORIEGN COUNTRY .. MUST GO THREOUGH THE WTO"

But that is not correct. You don't seem to understand what the WTO actually does.

SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT BUYS CRUDE OIL ..FROM IRAQ ..

Edited January 19, 2013 by Bumper64
edited out the name calling

[RVPleaseToday]

The WTO is not the central bank for the world. You are simply wrong.

[dontlop]

The WTO is not the central bank for the world. You are simply wrong.

NEVER SAID IT WAS YA FREAKING MORON ..

WHY DONT YOU EXPLAIN ALL THE SAUDI SWEET CRUDE THAT SITS IN THE SALTM MINE CAVERNS THAT THE UNITED STATE GOVERNMENT BUYS ..HOW DID THAT GET THERE IF THE UNBITED STATES GOVERNMENT NEVER BOUGHT IT ?

Access to the reserve is determined by the conditions written into the 1975 Energy Policy and Conservation Act (EPCA), primarily to counter a severe supply interruption. The maximum removal rate, by physical constraints, is 4.4 million barrels per day (700,000 m3/d). Oil could begin entering the marketplace 13 days after a presidential order. The Department of Energy says it has about 59 days of import protection in the SPR. This, combined with private sector inventory protection, is estimated to equal 115 days of imports.

The SPR was created following the 1973 energy crisis. The EPCA of December 22, 1975, made it policy for the U.S. to establish a reserve up to 1 billion barrels (159 million m³) of petroleum. A number of existing storage sites were acquired in 1977. Construction of the first surface facilities began in June 1977. On July 21, 1977, the first oil—approximately 412,000 barrels (65,500 m3) of Saudi Arabian light crude—was delivered to the SPR. Fill was suspended in FY 1995 to devote budget resources to refurbishing the SPR equipment and extending the life of the complex. The current SPR sites are expected to be usable until around 2025. Fill was resumed in 1999.

[edit] Repletion and suspension

On November 13, 2001, President George W. Bush announced that the SPR would be filled, saying, "The Strategic Petroleum Reserve is an important element of our Nation's energy security. To maximize long-term protection against oil supply disruptions, I am directing the Secretary of Energy to fill the SPR up to its 700 million barrel [111,000,000 m³] capacity."[4] The highest prior level was reached in 1994 with 592 million barrels (94,100,000 m3). At the time of President Bush's directive, the SPR contained about 545 million barrels (86,600,000 m3). Since the directive in 2001, the capacity of the SPR increased by 27 million barrels (4,300,000 m3) due to natural enlargement of the salt caverns in which the reserves are stored.

[RVPleaseToday]

What do the strategic oil reserves have to do with this conversation? Do you think the U.S. government is going to buy billions of barrels of oil from Iraq and pump it into the ground in the U.S., while the price fluctuates from day to day?

I'm still interested in why you think every transaction between every business in the world with every other business in the world goes through the WTO.

Edited January 17, 2013 by RVPleaseToday

[dontlop]

What do the strategic oil reserves have to do with this conversation? Do you think the U.S. government is going to buy billions of barrels of oil from Iraq and pump it into the ground in the U.S., while the price fluctuates from day to day?

I'm still interested in why you think every transaction between every business in the world with every other business in the world goes through the WTO.

DUDE YOU WENT ON AND ON SAYING I I SAID THE UNITED STATES GOVT DOESNT BUY OIL ..CALIMING THE US GOVT DOESNT HAVE REFINERIES .. WHICH I DIDNT .... AND WHO CARES ..

I GOT TO THINKING .. THE US DOES TO BUY OIL .. NOW YOUR SAYING THIS NONSENSE ..

YOU DEFINATLY HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS YOU SHOULD TALK WITH DINARK ..YOUR MORE HIS SPEED .. MAKE CENTS IS IN YOUR AGE GROUP TO I BELIEVE. THE OIL STATEMENT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT COULD OF BEEN TRADED .YOU MAKE AN ISSUE ABOUT WHO BUYS THE OIL . IF THEY BUY OIL .. THE ENTIRE POST WENT RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD .. YOUR REALLY NOT WORTH TALKING TO .

Edited January 17, 2013 by dontlop

[RVPleaseToday]

dontlop, I can't figure out what you are trying to say. Could you tell me, in a short paragraph, in lower case please, exactly what all this stuff about the WTO and exchanges, and stuff actually means?

Thanks

[dontlop]

Since the directive in 2001, the capacity of the SPR increased by 27 million barrels (4,300,000 m3) due to natural enlargement of the salt caverns in which the reserves are stored.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com...0#ixzz2IEsRQFCa

dontlop, I can't figure out what you are trying to say. Could you tell me, in a short paragraph, in lower case please, exactly what all this stuff about the WTO and exchanges, and stuff actually means?

Thanks

Edited January 19, 2013 by Bumper64
edited out the name calling

[RVPleaseToday]

There are 630 million barrels of oil in the reserves right now. Because of the constant fluctuations in the price of oil, it is unlikely to increase by much. It simply has nothing to do with our conversation.

[rockfl9]

Dontlop::: You are taking this thread much too personal. If you go back and look at your last 5-6 posts it shows you are not thinking clearly.. You write something , then when proved wrong you deny it .For a while back you had some credibility ...best take a break and just listen (read).

[RVPleaseToday]

We discovered back in the 1960's that smoking the drapes was not a good idea. Just sayin'

[dontlop]

THE GOVTS DOES BUY CRUDE OIL .. DONT THEY

there is no more possibility of a large, overnight RV.

THIS IS YOU ..

[RVPleaseToday]

donlop, the U.S. government buys a few million barrels occasionally for the reserves. When they release oil from the reserves, they sell it U.S. refineries. It has no impact on a potential RV. In fact, they sometimes release it for the purpose of attempting to lower the price of oil by increasing supply. The more oil that is pumped in the world, the less the oil is worth.

Edited January 17, 2013 by RVPleaseToday

[Darin]

Except the CBI. If it becomes clear that the IQD is consistently going up then more people will buy it which means more loses for the CBI so their reserves go down faster than M2 as they buy back. Plus a constantly changing exchange rate in an import dominated country is terrible for business and consumers as prices keep changing. Recall that Shabibi often said that one of the key missions of the CBI is exchange rate stability. This is why.

And for a different perspective on just how much is 1T IQD. Here is a fun link about how large a stack of bills is 1T USD in $100. So multiple this by 5 and you get about what it would be for using 25,000 IQD instead of $100 USD notes. Wow, is that one big pile-o bills!

A highly fluctuating currency is both bad for an importing and exporting country. It is just simply on how each country is affected.. One receives a fluctuating income while another encounters a fluctuating debt.

I don't think that many banks are concerned with those that hold the currency for long-term investments. (Heck, even banks buy up foreign currencies to strengthen their domestic currency by diversifying their liquid assets and also may do so in part to help other foreign currencies. These situations usually occur because the one purchasing the currency is benefiting for themselves while helping out the foreign banks maintain stability. Its your basic currency manipulation, and we see it quite often. I would say a great example is how China does not wish to see our currency falter.

The currency attacks most central banks will fear are simply done in short-term. The idea is to put a run on the currency to drive up the demand in short-term than quickly dumb to make big profits. That is not necessarily an easy task by any means to do as you simply need a lot of "big" money to accomplish this. Some people, speculators, and investors make nice profits/wages by taking on risks of the short-term fluctuations between some of the major currencies (i.e., USD, GBP, Euros, Yen, etc). Those speculators throw around much "bigger" amounts of cash more frequently to acquire profits on the changes of the pips. (Buy low / sell high).

I would label "many IQD speculators" as long-term. They're not going to quickly cash-in on any small movement of the exchange rate because the process of doing so is not as simple as clicking a button on a computer. We have to go to a bank or a money changers, and simply exchange our hard cash. Not to mention, since the IQD is an exotic currency it would take a significant change to see reasonable profits to make it worth the trip to the bank.

We probably come off as pesky to the CBI and maybe even slightly annoying, but we're no where near a big threat. If whale investors jump in, than issues may arise, but it would be a long time before anyone with those deep pockets dips their toes in...

If the currency ever went live and was traded international, than we could see those threats being more serious and possibly the damage it may cause. I don't think we're near that point yet, as a whole lot of reform needs to take place, domestic banking, international banking, and currency reform.

THE GOVTS DOES BUY CRUDE OIL .. DONT THEY

THIS IS YOU ..

Actually, they do... I'd love to see someone argue this...

But they're not buying it like the way you think.. They're not buying it from oil producing countries with the intent to turn & sell it to refineries to profit...

The crude oil they've purchased is for reserves (think... salt mines) which basically act as an emergency supply for numerous reasons (shortages, attack on our land, or war....)

If I recall, BO released some barrels from the reserves to help ease the gas prices at the pump.

It is a nice tool to use to help stabilize the economy if OPEC reduces their outflow... As they increase their flow back up, we can simply replenish our reserves.

[VIZIOIRAQI]

Really? Here is what I said

and here is what the very next two sentence in your link says (bold added)

O Wow here we go again You said (What they used to have before the 2003/2004 war? An exchange rate of 3000 IQD per Dollar. Is that what you are looking forward to?) making a smart remark with no faith in the Dinar ! I plainly told you that you were wrong and you are! The Dinar devalued in 1991 not 2003/2004 War, of course it was low in 1995 Hello it still is and won't come back till this year maybe next! I'm looking forward to 3.21 dollars to 1 dinar like it was before the Sanctions in 1991!

This Will be my last comment to you you plainly don't understand the subject your arguing about :Dsrc:

[dontlop]

donlop, the U.S. government buys a few million barrels occasionally for the reserves. When they release oil from the reserves, they sell it U.S. refineries. It has no impact on a potential RV. In fact, they sometimes release it for the purpose of attempting to lower the price of oil by increasing supply. The more oil that is pumped in the world, the less the oil is worth.

NO .. YOU WENT ON AND ON SAYING THE US GOVT DOES NOT BUY OIL . THEY DONT OWN REFINERIES . SAYING IM JUST MAKING THINGS UP .... IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW MUCH .. WHAT IT COSTS , YOU JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUING , YOU TOOK A LINE OUT OF CONTEXT ..LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO .. AND MADE A BIG DEAL BASED ON YOUR MADE UP CRAP.. TO CREATE HAVOC .. . YOU SHOULD BE PINNED IN THE LOPSTER TANK ALONG WITH YOUR CO CONSPIATORS