Show me even ONE RV in history

[Lutie]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa someone made me spend my money !!!!!!

[caz1104]

I think it is the fact that the original poster has the guts to come onto a site provided to us for free if we do not chose to join VIP, and speak out against the person who makes this site possible. If he wants to sell, that is great. It is like he had to have a little tantrum before he left. Pretty childish. I don't think anyone here twisted his arm to make him buy dinar. I see that he is now banned, as it should be. Please do not speak for "most people" here, There are those that feel this is a legitimate investment. All investments carry risks. If you were not willing to accept that fact, then you should never have invested.

I have seen your little stomp your feet tantrums before. Nothing new. I for one am glad that the OP has been banned. Our neg's bogus? Well mine wasn't. This forum is open to opinions, but not to those who show the kind of disrespect this person did. I think you and he should both grow up and learn some respect.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year since I am sure you will not be monitering this site much since this is a bogus scam.

[bodiddily]

If the premise of this statement is based on "if something has never happened then it never will" then it is really not a sound base, after all you never had a black president before. Anything is possible to an open mind, just be happy with what you have.

[umbertino]

If the premise of this statement is based on "if something has never happened then it never will" then it is really not a sound base, after all you never had a black president before. Anything is possible to an open mind, just be happy with what you have.

So... you're comparing the possibility ( now reality) of having a Black President to a 100,000% rate increase possibility? And state that since the former took place also the latter can..... Ok.

Edited December 7, 2012 by umbertino

[caz1104]

If the premise of this statement is based on "if something has never happened then it never will" then it is really not a sound base, after all you never had a black president before. Anything is possible to an open mind, just be happy with what you have.

I think the "naysayers" believe that beacuse an event like many think MIGHT/HOPE/PRAY will occur has never happened and it's not fiscaly sound,it WON'T/CAN'T happen. It's a logical argument..............but when governments are involved nothing is logical-peace

[Mo Money]

I have been involved with this for almost two years now. I come here every so often and check for progress, or lack there of.

I really dont understand how ANYONE can be critized for seriously..and SEVERELY questioning this "thing".

I truly feel sad for those whos future DEPENDS on this. I have been disturbed since day one upon coming here,by those posting about the "blessings' we will and are destined to receive. Frankly, its creepy. jus sayin

[hame55]

And i too have been asking the question, Is there a case in history where there has been a LOP of currency for a rich nation like Iraq that has been sanctioned (eventually depreciating their currency), invaded and occupied by UN forces?

The answer i got is NO. There has never been one

.CALLING ALL LOPSTERS!!!!!!

WHEN HAS A RICH COUNTRY DONE AN RD?

WHY WOULD THEY DO WHAT ZIMBABWE DID WHEN THEY ARE SITTING ON AN OCEAN OF OIL?

The other thing that concerns me about the obsession with the value of Iraq's oil is that the U.S. stated goal is to be energy independent over the next decade or so. Which reduces any future value of oil to the U.S., as we will be importing progressively less oil each year. We are already a net exporter of refined products like gasoline. Technology, through replacing oil, and making the significant amount of oil under the U.S. more easily available, is decreasing our need for foreign oil. The world has changed significantly over the last 10 years.

True, partially - untrue mostly.

Iraqi oil is very high grade and easy (cheap) to extract. Needs less refining. Oil will be used for the next century, in many ways other than transportation, such as petrochemical, plastics, etc.

The US will not be energy independent - that's a Republican myth. We use too much, #1, and there is too much, justified, environmental opposition.

There is a century's worth of oil in Iraq and their currency will someday be on par with Kuwait's.

Certainly if there's a free float it could rise significantly.

Edited December 7, 2012 by hame55

[Goldiegirl]

I will add my

Someone had said in the past that before this all "goes down" or maybe we should say "goes up", that this will look so bleak and so unlikely that you will want to rip your hair out and burn your dinar.

Well, to me, it looks like that downward spiral started. I don't quote the bible, but I do see a whole lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Finally, now we can watch it progress, or shall I say digress even further. That means it's moving and as long as that is happening, I'm optimistic.

So, for those who don't have the stomach for this, that's ok, I understand that, but for me....I'm going to hang on until the very end.

[pocono]

True, partially - untrue mostly.

Iraqi oil is very high grade and easy (cheap) to extract. Needs less refining. Oil will be used for the next century, in many ways other than transportation, such as petrochemical, plastics, etc.

The US will not be energy independent - that's a Republican myth. We use too much, #1, and there is too much, justified, environmental opposition.

There is a century's worth of oil in Iraq and their currency will someday be on par with Kuwait's.

Certainly if there's a free float it could rise significantly.

Russia....http://www.bing.com/search?q=russia+redenomination&FORM=MSNSHL

[Basilthyme]

I have been involved with this for almost two years now. I come here every so often and check for progress, or lack there of.

I really dont understand how ANYONE can be critized for seriously..and SEVERELY questioning this "thing". :angry:/>/>/>

I truly feel sad for those whos future DEPENDS on this. I have been disturbed since day one upon coming here,by those posting about the "blessings' we will and are destined to receive. Frankly, its creepy. jus sayin

I suspect that many posters on this site are not who they portray themselves to be. If you know what to look for, there is strongly consistent trend in behavior and characteristics among new registrants that goes beyond the typical groupthink "anything can happen" mentality.

What amazes me most about the rv-WILL-happen crowd is the complete flight from reason. For those who insist on referring to their speculation as an "investment", realize you are doing so because of the negative and positive connotations associated with the words "speculation" and "investment", respectively. Those connotations are the result of the underlying rationale behind each philosophy: one implies some kind of analysis of current value, the other does not.

Given so many IQD holders fancy themselves investors, rather than speculators, I'm quite surprised that none of them have "analyzed" the consequences of their beloved RV: the millions of Iraqi's who hold IQD would instantly become rich. Do you really think their economy would continue to function with virtually every one of its citizens becoming wealthy overnight? None of them would continue working. After all, isn't that the dream of everyone here, to get rich from an RV and quit their dayjobs?

When faced with the decision of whether or not to revalue the currency, what central banker would decide "yes" given the above? The stated purpose of a central bank is to stabilize currency and economy, that's why the IQD is pegged to the USD in the first place, why they hold reserves, and why they facilitate currency exchange.

If your response to this line of thought is anything in the range from "Yeah, but they have OIL!" to "Anything can happen!", understand that you are not an investor, and as such have no need analyze anything or to monitor events regarding the IQD, because you have no concern for risk or time horizons. You therefore have no reason whatsoever to read any commentary on this site or any other. You treat your holdings as a lottery ticket, and you wouldn't read winning number predictions, would you?

Edited December 7, 2012 by Basilthyme

[blaineage]

The discussion since the original post has (mainly) been great. Arguments for and against are positive. The original post in its tone, stuck me as condescending in nature and followed by calling Adam a 'fraudulent pupmper' . That is why he got his negs. I think Adam has always, always, always been a straight shooter on the potential upside and downside of this investment.

[RVPleaseToday]

Certainly if there's a free float it could rise significantly."

I guess I just don't understand why Iraq's possession of oil would make their currency valuable. With oil as their primary export, what makes their currency valuable to international currency traders if it were to free float?

We want dollars for our Dinar. Because of that, we WANT them to RV dinars pegged to the dollar! I'm not interested in International currency trading.

[rockfl9]

HUH???? The float would be with respect to the dollar!!! But IF it does not trade openly the ability to exchange would be very limited....

[colt32]

I suspect that many posters on this site are not who they portray themselves to be. If you know what to look for, there is strongly consistent trend in behavior and characteristics among new registrants that goes beyond the typical groupthink "anything can happen" mentality.

What amazes me most about the rv-WILL-happen crowd is the complete flight from reason. For those who insist on referring to their speculation as an "investment", realize you are doing so because of the negative and positive connotations associated with the words "speculation" and "investment", respectively. Those connotations are the result of the underlying rationale behind each philosophy: one implies some kind of analysis of current value, the other does not.

Given so many IQD holders fancy themselves investors, rather than speculators, I'm quite surprised that none of them have "analyzed" the consequences of their beloved RV: the millions of Iraqi's who hold IQD would instantly become rich. Do you really think their economy would continue to function with virtually every one of its citizens becoming wealthy overnight? None of them would continue working. After all, isn't that the dream of everyone here, to get rich from an RV and quit their dayjobs?

When faced with the decision of whether or not to revalue the currency, what central banker would decide "yes" given the above? The stated purpose of a central bank is to stabilize currency and economy, that's why the IQD is pegged to the USD in the first place, why they hold reserves, and why they facilitate currency exchange.

If your response to this line of thought is anything in the range from "Yeah, but they have OIL!" to "Anything can happen!", understand that you are not an investor, and as such have no need analyze anything or to monitor events regarding the IQD, because you have no concern for risk or time horizons. You therefore have no reason whatsoever to read any commentary on this site or any other. You treat your holdings as a lottery ticket, and you wouldn't read winning number predictions, would you?

Actually, aren't most Iraqi people using the American dollar for their purchases. How can we know how much each citizen holds or how much Dinar is being used in country for that matter? Just a thought.

God speed

[Basilthyme]

Actually, aren't most Iraqi people using the American dollar for their purchases. How can we know how much each citizen holds or how much Dinar is being used in country for that matter? Just a thought.

God speed

Certainly a valid question. I'd have included it in my previous post, but it was already on the long side.

Firstly, according to http://www.cbi.iq/index.php?pid=Statistics, M2 in Iraq was 73.6 trillion IQD at the end of April, with "Currency outside banks" representing 29.8 trillion IQD.

So someone definitely holds IQD. It's helpful to think of who that might be in terms of Iraqis.

Either:

1) Most Iraqis hold some IQD; or

2) Some Iraqis hold some IQD; or

3) Almost no Iraqis hold any IQD.

1) I'd find it hard to believe that most Iraqi households don't at least hold some IQD, and at 100,000% appreciation, some is all it would take. Average income in Iraq is $4,200 (USD), or $350 per month (according to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html). If on the day of a $1 RV the average Iraqi just happened to be holding $50 worth of IQD (which is only 1/7th of his monthly income), he would be left with $58,139.53, or more than he makes in 13 years.

2) Now assume that most Iraqis don't hold IQD, only some. What would anyone expect to happen to those few in a country where people are killed en masse on a regular basis merely for religious differences? Again, it would be pretty irresponsible of any central banker charged with ensuring stability to induce robbery/conflict/murder for a randomly distributed segment of the populace.

3) If almost no Iraqis hold IQD, then most of the $63 billion worth of it in circulation must be held by foreigners. If this is the case, the CBI definitely knows it, and so definitely knows that the net effect of an RV would be to enrich a bunch of foreigners at the expense of Iraq itself. Why on earth would they want do that? They may have liked us during Saddam days, but I don't think they liked us that much.

In neither 1), 2), or 3) does it seem even remotely likely that the CBI would choose to enact an RV. Convoluting the analysis of whether an RV is possible by adding discussions of balance of payments or oil production is absolutely unnecessary. That the RV everyone is hoping for, one on the order of 100,000%, would produce massive amounts of wealth is tautologically true. It's exactly why everyone here is buying IQD, and it's also exactly why it can't happen.

Just for reference, at a $1 RV, the 73.626 trillion IQD in circulation would have a value of $73.626 trillion. As it is currently worth only $63.318 billion (at .00086), the amount of wealth suddenly springing into existence would be $73.562 trillion.

$73.562 trillion is:

1.05 times the GDP of the entire planet Earth

4.87 times the GDP of the entire United States

Enough to create 73,562 new billionaires (there were 1,210 in 2011)

Enough to create 73,562,000 new millionaires (there were 10,000,000 in 2010)

Enough to give 294,248,000 people (4.28% of the world's population) $250,000

Enough to give every human being on planet Earth $10,548.43.

Anyone who believes any of this to be possible, let alone likely, is not only not an investor, they test the very limits of the term "speculator".

[coorslite21]

I have been asking the question, Is there a case in history where there has been a RV of currency of any major power nation?

Using Google as well as asking a friend who told me about RV of Dinar and my buying 1 million as a result,

I have not found one RV but lots of Devaluations.

Check the For Sale Forum... lots for sale including mine, but No indications of folks buying them, including mine.

I have sent my 1 million back to Dinar Trade for the $810 currently offered.

I hope to get net about $775 after shipping and insurance etc.. paid $1100 for them.. so you can do the math.

Adam Montana is in my best research a fraudulent pumper of a fraudulent get rich quick proposal that the RV will happen with the Dinar, for the 1st time in the history of the world.

Beware... and be warned... This is not an investment, this is a rip-off.

*********

The RV of the Dinar is not going to ever happen! It will devalue for sure, that is the incentive, just like it is for the USA financial handlers.. borrow and spend is the mantra today and forever...

The result has been and will be again, worthless currency...

I hope this helps someone else save at least some of the loss that is coming to everyone else who bought in to this lie like me with the hope that it might be possible!

END of my post is here anything added after this done by the managers of the site, not me

+++++

I doubt you will understand this when you read it......but thought I'd post it any way.........first off....to keep it simple......the world situation today is unprecedented....because the whole world is in a financial mess....

throughout history many countries have fallen on hard times....usually causing some sort of hyper-inflation........(and really the key word here is inflation)....

+++some of those instances have been covered in previous posts+++.....

various methods have been used to curb inflation......and by definition that process is revaluating currency controling inflation so people can aford food without having to take a suitcase full of money to the grocery store to buy a loaf of bread...

I believe you are saying that these revaluations haven't happened instantly with huge percentages of appreciation....I understand your line of thought......

but please take a few minutes and read this article.....it might help.......or perhaps it will further confuse you......

my main point here is really that throughout history many countries have faced financial doom.......and throughout history these countries have solved the problems.....and prospered once again.........

Iraq's woes were caused by unusual circumstances.......just like Kuwait.......Kuwait has risen from the ashes.....just ike Iraq will.......and neither will have happened over night, instantaniously.....

Best wishes to you in the upcoming Christmas season......

Peace love and hope....tis the season....!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/31/zimbabwe.inflation

[WallyWeaver]

various methods have been used to curb inflation......and by definition that process is revaluating currency controling inflation so people can aford food without having to take a suitcase full of money to the grocery store to buy a loaf of bread...

http://www.guardian....babwe.inflation

Thanks for your contribution.

All I see in the article you provided, though, is in each case stated a rebound in tumultuous economic circumstances began with the issuance of a new currency minus many zero's, otherwise known as a Redenomination (RD).

The article begins this way:

Zimbabwe's central bank has announced it will drop 10 zeros off its currency, turning Z$10bn into Z$1 – although that will still be insufficient to buy a loaf of bread.

Zimbabwe is suffering from the curse of hyperinflation - extremely rapid growth in the supply of "paper" money. Chopping zeros off banknotes is one way of trying to tame hyperinflation – it was tried in Germany in the 1920s when people shopped with wheelbarrows full of money – but other measures need to be introduced as well.

In the opening of this article the author sets the stage for the rest of his piece. The author clearly states that: "Chopping zeroes off banknotes is one way of trying to tame hyperinflation.... but other measures need to be introduced AS WELL." These other measures, of course, are figuring out ways to get the economic wheels of a country moving again. In this piece Bolivia is mentioned (at the bottom) and they decided that: "The government maintained a balanced budget and did not spend any more than it received in taxes." With these positive measures Bolivia was able to tame inflation in about 10 years. But again, these steps were taken AFTER Bolivia redenominated its currency in 1987. That is a fact from history.

So, again, the meaning is pretty plain here, as far as I can tell. In every case the author mentions, from here to the end of the article, we are to assume that the mentioned country began with a RD (issuance of a new currency minus many zeroes) and then introduced other measures AS WELL.

So, I guess your point is you are hoping for the issuance of a new currency in Iraq, minus some zeroes, and then they can slowly appreciate the value of their new currency over time?

Am I understanding you correctly?

WW.

[coorslite21]

Thanks for your contribution.

All I see in the article you provided, though, is in each case stated a rebound in tumultuous economic circumstances began with the issuance of a new currency minus many zero's, otherwise known as a Redenomination (RD).

WW….yes,your conclusion would be right….if that was the link I had wanted to post.

Forgive mefor wasting your time reading that…I had my mind on many things last night….Ihad researched that link in regards to historical references to what we call aLOP……and nope….I’m not on the LOP train regarding the IQD.

With thatsaid let me add that I believe History is a very good indicator of what mighthappen in the future, as it tends to repeat itself.…an example of this is thatno Fiat currency has ever succeeded…..they all fail…….and the average length oftime is 40 years, or so……The USA moved to a Fiat currency in 1971.

The originalposter was right in that in recent history there has never been any occurrencewhere a currency increased in value by a substantial amount like we arepotentially looking at with the IQD, and VND. History does tell us that this type of event hasoccurred, although not recently.

TheByzantine Empire was the aftermath of the Roman Empire and encompasses a periodof time from about 324 AD to 1453 AD. There were a number of dynasties during thisperiod of time that became the prominent forces in the region over that periodof time. During much of this time theone consistent currency was the Solidus, a unit of gold, (coins) with anengraving of Jesus Christ on one side and Justinianian II on the flipside. (originally minted in the 560’s+AD)…Throughout this period of time the Byzantine Empire evolved and existed,and prospered throughout Europe and Asia. Constantinople which is now known as Istanbulwas a Central Hub to this Empire during its history. You can learn about the many upwardrevaluations of currency that occurred within this empire for the thousandyears or so that it existed, in a book written by Cyril Mango…. the book is......The OxfordHistory of Byzantium.

In additionto the currency information in the book I found it interesting that from 674 AD-678AD much of Constantinople was destroyed by the Arabs during the UmayyadCaliphate which was the second Caliphate…..

My point in adding this is that history isstill repeating itself today….we are facing another Caliphate in today’sage…..The Prophet Muhammad was born in Mecca, Arabia, in 570 C.E. and died in632 CE……and the simple fact is that the Islamic sacred traditions are filledwith prophecies foretelling the triumph of Islam over the whole world….

Muhammad said,“I have been ordered to fight the people until they all say: ‘None has theright to be worshiped other than Allah.’” (Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84,Number 59, Narrated Abu Huraira)

The eventual conquest and completeIslamicization of the earth is as natural of an expectation for most Muslims asthe rising of the Sun. Theologically, Muslims have a sense of divineentitlement, believing that complete world domination is their calling anddestiny.

Getting backto the currency…at that time, (674AD), the Umayyad taxation and administrativepractices were widely perceived as absolutist, oppressive and unjust, deviatingfrom the precepts of Islam and at this time Syria exercised a re-valuation ,doubling the value of their currency in an effort to alleviate unrest that theyfeared would escalate into civil wars amongst the Muslims…..this efforteventually failed as the Second Muslim Civil war occurred from 680AD – 692AD

Apparently raisingthe value of a currency hasn’t always fixed the problems….sometimes it’s just aband aid…

A Bit More……

In the year867AD the Macedonian dynasty started………this was started by the accession of Basil I to the throne in 867,This dynasty included some of the most able emperors in Byzantium's history,and the period is one of revival and resurgence. The Empire moved fromdefending against external enemies to re-conquest of territories formerly lost.In addition to a reassertion of Byzantine military power and politicalauthority, the period under the Macedonian dynasty is characterized by acultural revival in spheres such as philosophy and the arts. There was moreovera conscious effort to restore the brilliance of the period before the Arab andSlavic invasions, and the Macedonian era has been dubbed by some scholars as the"Golden Age" of Byzantium. Though the Empire was significantly smallerthan during the reign of Justinian, it had regained significant strength, asthe remaining territories were less geographically dispersed and morepolitically, economically, and culturally integrated.

As you mightguess, that leader, Basil 1, led his people to great prosperity, and some ofhow he did it was thru revaluing currency based on resources, he tripled thevalue….and did great things with infrastructure to the country ( this name, Basil, should not be confused with ourcurrent Basel 1 bank reforms issued in 1988…besides being spelled differentlythey have nothing to do with one another)

During the period of time, (324AD - 1423AD) and throughout history, there was constantconflict with the Arabs and the rest of the world……and, there always will beconflict like this because of the Islamic Caliphate ideal outlined above……

Basil II wasin power from 976AD -1025AD and he helped bring the dynasty back to greater prominence againthrough various means….Currency manipulation was a small part of this….but mostly a heavyhand as he defeated the Bulgarians after 20 years of war…..it might be a bit ofa stretch…but even then I believe war was good business….. and historically formany years in the past century we have heard that very same thing being said…

My point tothe original poster is that there have been substantial RV’s in the history of the world…..although,none recently like we hope to see in the near future with the IQD and VND. For me history can predict much of thefuture……history tells us our Fiat currency will fail….history also tells usthat there are always solutions, new programs and ideas that keep us all movingforward….Forgive me for my previous post with the wrong link…..and also if Icame across as sarcastic in my post, no offense was intended…

We arefacing difficult times ahead unlike any I can find in history. It is the magnitude of the entire world beingtied together as one that makes this such a daunting challenge. The powers that be will steer the ship inwhatever direction they chose….I believe the financial issues at hand will beresolved and I believe the IQD is a small part of that solution. Then as history tells us….in the future therewill be other challenges ahead…..and I believe those will be met as well….

Take care…..Tisthe Season..

[coorslite21]

WW….yes,your conclusion would be right….if that was the link I had wanted to post.

Forgive mefor wasting your time reading that…I had my mind on many things last night….Ihad researched that link in regards to historical references to what we call aLOP……and nope….I’m not on the LOP train regarding the IQD.

With thatsaid let me add that I believe History is a very good indicator of what mighthappen in the future, as it tends to repeat itself.…an example of this is thatno Fiat currency has ever succeeded…..they all fail…….and the average length oftime is 40 years, or so……The USA moved to a Fiat currency in 1971.

The originalposter was right in that in recent history there has never been any occurrencewhere a currency increased in value by a substantial amount like we arepotentially looking at with the IQD, and VND. History does tell us that this type of event hasoccurred, although not recently.

TheByzantine Empire was the aftermath of the Roman Empire and encompasses a periodof time from about 324 AD to 1453 AD. There were a number of dynasties during thisperiod of time that became the prominent forces in the region over that periodof time. During much of this time theone consistent currency was the Solidus, a unit of gold, (coins) with anengraving of Jesus Christ on one side and Justinianian II on the flipside. (originally minted in the 560’s+AD)…Throughout this period of time the Byzantine Empire evolved and existed,and prospered throughout Europe and Asia. Constantinople which is now known as Istanbulwas a Central Hub to this Empire during its history. You can learn about the many upwardrevaluations of currency that occurred within this empire for the thousandyears or so that it existed, in a book written by Cyril Mango…. the book is......The OxfordHistory of Byzantium.

In additionto the currency information in the book I found it interesting that from 674 AD-678AD much of Constantinople was destroyed by the Arabs during the UmayyadCaliphate which was the second Caliphate…..

My point in adding this is that history isstill repeating itself today….we are facing another Caliphate in today’sage…..The Prophet Muhammad was born in Mecca, Arabia, in 570 C.E. and died in632 CE……and the simple fact is that the Islamic sacred traditions are filledwith prophecies foretelling the triumph of Islam over the whole world….

Muhammad said,“I have been ordered to fight the people until they all say: ‘None has theright to be worshiped other than Allah.’” (Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84,Number 59, Narrated Abu Huraira)

The eventual conquest and completeIslamicization of the earth is as natural of an expectation for most Muslims asthe rising of the Sun. Theologically, Muslims have a sense of divineentitlement, believing that complete world domination is their calling anddestiny.

Getting backto the currency…at that time, (674AD), the Umayyad taxation and administrativepractices were widely perceived as absolutist, oppressive and unjust, deviatingfrom the precepts of Islam and at this time Syria exercised a re-valuation ,doubling the value of their currency in an effort to alleviate unrest that theyfeared would escalate into civil wars amongst the Muslims…..this efforteventually failed as the Second Muslim Civil war occurred from 680AD – 692AD

Apparently raisingthe value of a currency hasn’t always fixed the problems….sometimes it’s just aband aid…

A Bit More……

In the year867AD the Macedonian dynasty started………this was started by the accession of Basil I to the throne in 867,This dynasty included some of the most able emperors in Byzantium's history,and the period is one of revival and resurgence. The Empire moved fromdefending against external enemies to re-conquest of territories formerly lost.In addition to a reassertion of Byzantine military power and politicalauthority, the period under the Macedonian dynasty is characterized by acultural revival in spheres such as philosophy and the arts. There was moreovera conscious effort to restore the brilliance of the period before the Arab andSlavic invasions, and the Macedonian era has been dubbed by some scholars as the"Golden Age" of Byzantium. Though the Empire was significantly smallerthan during the reign of Justinian, it had regained significant strength, asthe remaining territories were less geographically dispersed and morepolitically, economically, and culturally integrated.

As you mightguess, that leader, Basil 1, led his people to great prosperity, and some ofhow he did it was thru revaluing currency based on resources, he tripled thevalue….and did great things with infrastructure to the country ( this name, Basil, should not be confused with ourcurrent Basel 1 bank reforms issued in 1988…besides being spelled differentlythey have nothing to do with one another)

During the period of time, (324AD - 1423AD) and throughout history, there was constantconflict with the Arabs and the rest of the world……and, there always will beconflict like this because of the Islamic Caliphate ideal outlined above……

Basil II wasin power from 976AD -1025AD and he helped bring the dynasty back to greater prominence againthrough various means….Currency manipulation was a small part of this….but mostly a heavyhand as he defeated the Bulgarians after 20 years of war…..it might be a bit ofa stretch…but even then I believe war was good business….. and historically formany years in the past century we have heard that very same thing being said…

My point tothe original poster is that there have been substantial RV’s in the history of the world…..although,none recently like we hope to see in the near future with the IQD and VND. For me history can predict much of thefuture……history tells us our Fiat currency will fail….history also tells usthat there are always solutions, new programs and ideas that keep us all movingforward….Forgive me for my previous post with the wrong link…..and also if Icame across as sarcastic in my post, no offense was intended…

We arefacing difficult times ahead unlike any I can find in history. It is the magnitude of the entire world beingtied together as one that makes this such a daunting challenge. The powers that be will steer the ship inwhatever direction they chose….I believe the financial issues at hand will beresolved and I believe the IQD is a small part of that solution. Then as history tells us….in the future therewill be other challenges ahead…..and I believe those will be met as well….

Take care…..Tisthe Season..

sorry for the small print and run on words.......something going on with the program.....and by the time I tried to fix them I was locked out....unable to edit....

[RVPleaseToday]

I think you are grasping at straws. The financial world in 2012 and the financial world in 600 AD cannot be compared. It's just nonsense to try and make a connection.

It is not the fiat currency that is going to fail in the U.S. It is capitalism that is failing, and in a very predictable way. Most of the wealth in this country has made its way to a few people at the top, who control the means of production.

Edited December 9, 2012 by RVPleaseToday

[WallyWeaver]

I think you are grasping at straws. The financial world in 2012 and the financial world in 600 AD cannot be compared. It's just nonsense to try and make a connection.

It is not the fiat currency that is going to fail in the U.S. It is capitalism that is failing, and in a very predictable way. Most of the wealth in this country has made its way to a few people at the top, who control the means of production.

I see, so it would be better to do it like Communist Russia where everyone is poor except for those in government? Come on, man.... did you just get done reading a bunch of Lenin quotes or something? Here's a great book to contradict anything Lenin would have to say: "Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith.....

Capitalism is not perfect, but I guarantee the standard of living for all is better under capitalism than under communism.

Is it better to live in Cuba or in the US (think driving around in discarded US cars made in the 50's, dirt poor, no opportunity)? It's true we have poor but every society has the poor, there's no way to get away from that. But I guarantee you our poor have it better than the poor in any other non-capitalist country.

Ask yourself: would I rather live in communist Cuba or in the US? I think a very large Cuban immigrant population in Florida would heartily agree with what I'm saying.

WW.

[RVPleaseToday]

You have posited a false dichotomy. Just because Communism didn't work doesn't mean that Capitalism will not fail. If capitalism were working as it should, the rich would be getting richer, and everyone else would also be better off. That's not what is happening in the U.S. The rich are aggregating a greater and greater percentage of the wealth, while more and more people are falling into poverty. Their relative poverty to other country's is irrelevant.

The wealthy's involvement in economic rent seeking strategies, when combined with technology's devastating effects on middle class jobs, and the moving of manufacturing jobs to other countries, is gutting the middle class, and will ultimately result in people shooting at each other, I'm afraid.

Edited December 9, 2012 by RVPleaseToday

[umbertino]

Quote

would I rather live in communist Cuba

End Quote

Cuba is not bad if you have enough money. You can live well with about 1k bucks a month... If you choose Havana, you'll need more.

I stayed for extended periods ( 2 months each time) in Santiago de Cuba and Camaguey ( 2nd and 3rd biggest cities)... My ex- wife is from there.

Edited December 9, 2012 by umbertino

[Goodlife]

I have been asking the question, Is there a case in history where there has been a RV of currency of any major power nation?

Using Google as well as asking a friend who told me about RV of Dinar and my buying 1 million as a result,

I have not found one RV but lots of Devaluations.

Check the For Sale Forum... lots for sale including mine, but No indications of folks buying them, including mine.

I have sent my 1 million back to Dinar Trade for the $810 currently offered.

I hope to get net about $775 after shipping and insurance etc.. paid $1100 for them.. so you can do the math.

Adam Montana is in my best research a fraudulent pumper of a fraudulent get rich quick proposal that the RV will happen with the Dinar, for the 1st time in the history of the world.

Beware... and be warned... This is not an investment, this is a rip-off.

*********

The RV of the Dinar is not going to ever happen! It will devalue for sure, that is the incentive, just like it is for the USA financial handlers.. borrow and spend is the mantra today and forever...

The result has been and will be again, worthless currency...

I hope this helps someone else save at least some of the loss that is coming to everyone else who bought in to this lie like me with the hope that it might be possible!

END of my post is here anything added after this done by the managers of the site, not me

The $325 loss you are expecting is the cost of impatience not the failure of the investment.

The investment hasn't failed. The very same information that you would have read when you entered the investment concerning pre -conditions for a manged float or RV haven't happened yet so events like exiting out of chapter 7 and other relevant important benchmarks have to waited upon. Your impatience doesn't constitute a failure for the complicated financial recovery of a country.

[keepmwlknfny]

Certainly a valid question. I'd have included it in my previous post, but it was already on the long side.

Firstly, according to http://www.cbi.iq/in...?pid=Statistics, M2 in Iraq was 73.6 trillion IQD at the end of April, with "Currency outside banks" representing 29.8 trillion IQD.

So someone definitely holds IQD. It's helpful to think of who that might be in terms of Iraqis.

Either:

1) Most Iraqis hold some IQD; or

2) Some Iraqis hold some IQD; or

3) Almost no Iraqis hold any IQD.

1) I'd find it hard to believe that most Iraqi households don't at least hold some IQD, and at 100,000% appreciation, some is all it would take. Average income in Iraq is $4,200 (USD), or $350 per month (according to https://www.cia.gov/...2004rank.html). If on the day of a $1 RV the average Iraqi just happened to be holding $50 worth of IQD (which is only 1/7th of his monthly income), he would be left with $58,139.53, or more than he makes in 13 years.

2) Now assume that most Iraqis don't hold IQD, only some. What would anyone expect to happen to those few in a country where people are killed en masse on a regular basis merely for religious differences? Again, it would be pretty irresponsible of any central banker charged with ensuring stability to induce robbery/conflict/murder for a randomly distributed segment of the populace.

3) If almost no Iraqis hold IQD, then most of the $63 billion worth of it in circulation must be held by foreigners. If this is the case, the CBI definitely knows it, and so definitely knows that the net effect of an RV would be to enrich a bunch of foreigners at the expense of Iraq itself. Why on earth would they want do that? They may have liked us during Saddam days, but I don't think they liked us that much.

In neither 1), 2), or 3) does it seem even remotely likely that the CBI would choose to enact an RV. Convoluting the analysis of whether an RV is possible by adding discussions of balance of payments or oil production is absolutely unnecessary. That the RV everyone is hoping for, one on the order of 100,000%, would produce massive amounts of wealth is tautologically true. It's exactly why everyone here is buying IQD, and it's also exactly why it can't happen.

Just for reference, at a $1 RV, the 73.626 trillion IQD in circulation would have a value of $73.626 trillion. As it is currently worth only $63.318 billion (at .00086), the amount of wealth suddenly springing into existence would be $73.562 trillion.

$73.562 trillion is:

1.05 times the GDP of the entire planet Earth

4.87 times the GDP of the entire United States

Enough to create 73,562 new billionaires (there were 1,210 in 2011)

Enough to create 73,562,000 new millionaires (there were 10,000,000 in 2010)

Enough to give 294,248,000 people (4.28% of the world's population) $250,000

Enough to give every human being on planet Earth $10,548.43.

Anyone who believes any of this to be possible, let alone likely, is not only not an investor, they test the very limits of the term "speculator".

You bring up a lot of valid points!! Hard to debate that!