Can someone please show me?

[dinarck]

I keep reading in the main forums about the "RV" or "RI" and its talked about like these are real things. It seems like its just a given that Iraq will "RV". Well if in fact a "RV" is a real economic event then obviously there has been one performed in the past. So please someone show me. If anyone can point to a "RV" that has occurred in the past then I would feel much better about this whole thing. There are plenty of oil rich countries out there that could have done one if they actually do exist. Saudi, Dubai, Russia, Venezuela, and the list goes on. So where are they? Anyone? Please. Now if in fact one has never been performed then you may have to ask yourself why. If a "RV" is such a great thing and something a country like Iraq wants to do then how come one has never been done?

I already no the outcome of this thread. There will be no "RVs" shown except the usual appreciations in currency values by a few percent at a time. So now that we know "RVs" don't exist then why are they spouted off as being real everyday on this site? Those of you who disagree then please explain where I am wrong. Explain how one would work even of they were real. How would one not create instant hyperinflation in the country that is attempting it? Just trying to get some answers here since I am baffled that an economic event that does not and cannot exist is talked about as a real thing constantly here.

[Tripphood]

Good luck!

[Deborah Layne]

Curious, what are you waiting for? Meaning, assuming you have dinar ... why? And what do you hope to gain by being part of "RV" discussion?

I'm not being sarcastic - forgive me if it comes off that way. I'm just curious what you're doing with dinar if you don't think it's going to RV or whatever?

If you don't think it's real, then why are you here, exactly?

I can't seem to phrase that without it sounding cheeky. I'm not being cheeky, I promise. I'm just curious.

[seetrader1]

This is from Currency expert John Jagerson...

"In absolute value terms the most significant RV in history was the RV of the Chinese Yuan in 2005 that is still ongoing. The exchange rate has actually moved in favor of the yuan 31%. However, there are slim pickings for this kind of RV. Usually an RV is done to lower your currency’s value. The Bank of Japan does this periodically by budging its exchange rate down by a few percentage points that usually evaporates within a few weeks. The Swiss National Bank did it last year when they pegged to the Euro but the change was just a few percentages then as well."

...............................................................

Notice how he didn't mention Kuwait? Ha Ha!!

Didn't happen folks.

.............................................................................

Here's what John says about Kuwait...

"Stage one – Fall 1990

Iraq invades and replaces the Kuwaiti dinar with the Iraqi dinar as the “official” currency. The Kuwaiti government was essentially in exile. However, because of the way currencies were managed in the early 1990’s the official rate for the KWD never changed. The UN condemned the invasion and no one of any consequence recognized the right of Iraq to replace the government and currency of Kuwait. There are many anecdotes floating around that you could have bought the KWD for a fraction of its original value on the black-market for a few weeks during that period but I don’t know of anyone brave enough to come forward and admit (and prove) that they did it.

Stage two – Winter 1991

The U.S. led invasion and liberation of Kuwait was chaotic to say the least for money supply in Kuwait. I have again heard anecdotes of people being able to buy KWD on the black market during this period but the official exchange rate was still the same. The old Kuwaiti government was restored following the withdrawal of Iraqi troops. This is really important => Unlike Iraq, the same government, currency, central bank, money, and civil system was in place before and immediately after the Iraqi invasion.

Stage three – September 1991

The KWD was redenominated with new bills in 1991. This means that the old bills held by the public were exchanged for new bills. Sometimes redenominations are done at a ratio (referred to as “lopping”) but this one was 1:1 straight across. Theoretically it is possible (this is a big “if”) for some investors who had bought KWD on the black market during the occupation to have made a big return but there are no known institutional investors who have admitted engaging in that activity and I suspect that the few people who did it are keeping quiet since war-profiteering is generally an unpopular if not illegal thing to do.

KWD Exchange rates

The KWD has been pegged to a basket of currencies (dominated by the dollar) or the dollar itself since 1975. Since the mid-1980s when the dollar was released to float more freely the KWD has had an exchange rate that has ranged between $2.78 and $3.10. This includes the period of the Iraqi invasion and the U.S. invasion of Iraq in the early 2000s.

The bottom line is that if you had 1,000KWD worth $3,000 before the invasion you still had 1,000 new KWD after 1991 that was still worth about $3,000 assuming you were able to exchange your hard currency. No one profited from the invasion."

Edited December 4, 2012 by seetrader1

[dinarck]

Curious, what are you waiting for? Meaning, assuming you have dinar ... why? And what do you hope to gain by being part of "RV" discussion?

I'm not being sarcastic - forgive me if it comes off that way. I'm just curious what you're doing with dinar if you don't think it's going to RV or whatever?

If you don't think it's real, then why are you here, exactly?

I can't seem to phrase that without it sounding cheeky. I'm not being cheeky, I promise. I'm just curious.

I get that a lot actually. Lol.....I see the dinar for what it is. A LONG TERM currency speculation. It's the only way anyone will ever make any real money off of this deal and that's IF they don't redenominate. Hopefully in 10 to 20 years the dinar MAY be approaching a penny if we are lucky. This whole overnight massive RV nonsense is just that. It's an impossibility made up by low life con men years ago on the internet to sell large amounts of dinar. Sorry.

Nice reminder Seetrader. Thanks.

[seetrader1]

.................................................................................

John is no Stevei, Frank26, or Okie Oil Scam.

Here's a breif bio...

"I graduated from Utah Valley University with a degree in Business Administration where I emphasized in accounting and finance. I later completed the PLD at Harvard that has a strong international business focus. I have spent most of my career as an entrepreneur, which led me in two directions that eventually converged to form my current occupation. The first direction was to become involved in private equity (AKA venture and angel capital), which gave me experience in investment and risk analysis. The second was my experience (early in my career) importing products and equipment from Asia. While I was doing that I was frequently hedging currency risk and the currency-trading bug bit me. I haven’t turned back.

In 2003 I left entrepreneurship briefly and went to work with Investools, which was a roll-up of several online companies focused on investor education and information. Investools later acquired the options-brokerage thinkorswim (Barrons’ #1 rated), which was later acquired by TDAmeritrade after I left the company. I was a Vice President at the firm and was responsible for content, training, and client education. Working at thinkorswim Group I had the opportunity to get to know how individual investors work. This gave me a lot of insight into the biggest mistakes they make as well as the commonalities among successful traders.

For a brief period I was also a principle for a small CTA (NFA registered) focusing on forex trading, but left the industry when regulation changes in the U.S. pushed so many domestic traders overseas. I currently still write two option advisory letters that have done well. I ended 2011 profitably, which is “pretty good” in my book even if I didn’t blow the doors off.

I have written three books published by McGraw Hill. Two of these were about the international currency market or “Forex”. The third is on gold investing. I am currently writing a book on the coming (in my opinion) bond market collapse. I regularly write and record videos for online publications including Nasdaq.com, Scottrade, International Stock Exchange (ISE), LearningMarkets.com, Mint (an Intuit company) and Alpari among others."

[JoeFriday]

I get that a lot actually. Lol.....I see the dinar for what it is. A LONG TERM currency speculation. It's the only way anyone will ever make any real money off of this deal and that's IF they don't redenominate. Hopefully in 10 to 20 years the dinar MAY be approaching a penny if we are lucky. This whole overnight massive RV nonsense is just that. It's an impossibility made up by low life con men years ago on the internet to sell large amounts of dinar. Sorry.

I don't even understand this long term possibility.

First the Chinese Yuan did not RV overnight from what I can tell, nor do I think the quotes offered on this subject say so. So in fact RVs of the sort mentioned on this site are limited to just a few percentage points and don't even get to the 10s of percent. The Yuan has risen in fits and starts from 0.12 Yuan/USD in May 2005 (having been at that level for many years) to 0.158 Yuan/USD today. 30% in 7 years is 4% per year compounded yearly. So that's about inflation plus 1 or 2 percent per year, pretty poor ROI. So 12x (to get to one penny) would be a gigantic currency movement even over a 10-20 year span. And why would one think such even might occur? A rising GDP does not imply a rising exchange rate. What business wants is a stable exchange rate.

Here is the Yuan/USD data (sorry oanda doesn't offer a link to the graphs)

End Date CNY/USD

9/30/12 0.1579

6/30/12 0.158

3/31/12 0.1582

12/31/11 0.1568

9/30/11 0.1557

6/30/11 0.1537

3/31/11 0.1518

12/31/10 0.15

9/30/10 0.1475

6/30/10 0.1463

3/31/10 0.1463

12/31/09 0.1463

9/30/09 0.1462

6/30/09 0.1462

3/31/09 0.1461

12/31/08 0.1459

9/30/08 0.1459

6/30/08 0.1435

3/31/08 0.1394

12/31/07 0.1344

9/30/07 0.1321

6/30/07 0.1301

3/31/07 0.1287

12/31/06 0.127

9/30/06 0.1254

6/30/06 0.1246

3/31/06 0.1241

12/31/05 0.1236

9/30/05 0.1227

6/30/05 0.1207

3/31/05 0.1207

12/31/04 0.1207

9/30/04 0.1207

6/30/04 0.1207

3/31/04 0.1207

12/31/03 0.1207

9/30/03 0.1207

6/30/03 0.1207

3/31/03 0.1207

12/31/02 0.1207

9/30/02 0.1207

6/30/02 0.1207

3/31/02 0.1207

12/31/01 0.1207

9/30/01 0.1208

6/30/01 0.1208

3/31/01 0.1208

I also don't see the relationship to an RD. The RD is neutral so whether they RD or not, the possibility (or lack of same) of a slowly rising exchange rate seems the same.

Curious, what are you waiting for? Meaning, assuming you have dinar ... why? And what do you hope to gain by being part of "RV" discussion?

I'm not being sarcastic - forgive me if it comes off that way. I'm just curious what you're doing with dinar if you don't think it's going to RV or whatever?

If you don't think it's real, then why are you here, exactly?

I can't seem to phrase that without it sounding cheeky. I'm not being cheeky, I promise. I'm just curious.

Why are you here Deborah? Dinar holders like to ask this question, but I have yet to see one answer it.

I suspect the reason is pretty much the same for everyone, its an enjoyable discussion. Whether you are a current-holder, previous-holder, future-holder, or never-holder of dinars seems irrelevant to me. What is needed is just an interest in the subject.

Edited December 4, 2012 by JoeFriday

[JoeFriday]

Oops I have the Yuan (CNY) and USD flipped. It used to be 0.12 dollars per Yuan (8.3 Yuan per dollar) and is now 0.158 dollars per yuan (6.27 Yuan per dollar). Oanda seems to have the graph and data legend backwards. But, the point of slow change still remains. Sorry for the confusion. The edit time expired before I could get back and correct the post.

Edited December 4, 2012 by JoeFriday

[dinarck]

I don't even understand this long term possibility.

First the Chinese Yuan did not RV overnight from what I can tell, nor do I think the quotes offered on this subject say so. So in fact RVs of the sort mentioned on this site are limited to just a few percentage points and don't even get to the 10s of percent. The Yuan has risen in fits and starts from 0.12 Yuan/USD in May 2005 (having been at that level for many years) to 0.158 Yuan/USD today. 30% in 7 years is 4% per year compounded yearly. So that's about inflation plus 1 or 2 percent per year, pretty poor ROI. So 12x (to get to one penny) would be a gigantic currency movement even over a 10-20 year span. And why would one think such even might occur? A rising GDP does not imply a rising exchange rate. What business wants is a stable exchange rate.

Here is the Yuan/USD data (sorry oanda doesn't offer a link to the graphs)

End Date CNY/USD

9/30/12 0.1579

6/30/12 0.158

3/31/12 0.1582

12/31/11 0.1568

9/30/11 0.1557

6/30/11 0.1537

3/31/11 0.1518

12/31/10 0.15

9/30/10 0.1475

6/30/10 0.1463

3/31/10 0.1463

12/31/09 0.1463

9/30/09 0.1462

6/30/09 0.1462

3/31/09 0.1461

12/31/08 0.1459

9/30/08 0.1459

6/30/08 0.1435

3/31/08 0.1394

12/31/07 0.1344

9/30/07 0.1321

6/30/07 0.1301

3/31/07 0.1287

12/31/06 0.127

9/30/06 0.1254

6/30/06 0.1246

3/31/06 0.1241

12/31/05 0.1236

9/30/05 0.1227

6/30/05 0.1207

3/31/05 0.1207

12/31/04 0.1207

9/30/04 0.1207

6/30/04 0.1207

3/31/04 0.1207

12/31/03 0.1207

9/30/03 0.1207

6/30/03 0.1207

3/31/03 0.1207

12/31/02 0.1207

9/30/02 0.1207

6/30/02 0.1207

3/31/02 0.1207

12/31/01 0.1207

9/30/01 0.1208

6/30/01 0.1208

3/31/01 0.1208

I also don't see the relationship to an RD. The RD is neutral so whether they RD or not, the possibility (or lack of same) of a slowly rising exchange rate seems the same.

Why are you here Deborah? Dinar holders like to ask this question, but I have yet to see one answer it.

I suspect the reason is pretty much the same for everyone, its an enjoyable discussion. Whether you are a current-holder, previous-holder, future-holder, or never-holder of dinars seems irrelevant to me. What is needed is just an interest in the subject.

Lol.....you are absolutely right Joe. It's highly unlikely but its possible. If the dinar was allowed to continue on its crawling peg then its a possibility. Not saying it will ever happen. All speculation. What I do know for sure is overnight RVs of 100%, 1000%, or 100,000% are such fantasy that is laughable yet they are spouted off as truth daily. The future for Iraq is grim at best. Hype on this site has Iraq as some future economic giant which is just plain silly. They couldn't run a lemonade stand without blowing up half of the customers.

[doctor robbins]

Your point is well taken, dinarck. If you believe that the dinar will RV to $1 or more you believe that something is about to happen which is unprecedented, and that the people in the know about this imminent unprecedented event just happen to have backgrounds in marketing rather than currency speculation, and some of them even have criminal backgrounds.

[quadkidd1]

Corruption and capitalism go hand in hand guys.

Think about it.........

Quad

[JoeFriday]

Corruption and capitalism go hand in hand guys.

Think about it.........

Quad B)/>/>

Meaning what? Lets say the GOI is corrupt as can be (and perhaps they are), how does that impact what is possible with their currency relative to the rest of the world?

[quadkidd1]

With all due respect its pointless to make a case on the possible RV of the IQD simply because those who reside here only choose to see it one way. Bash if you will I dont really care............. There just might be a currency adjustment that will make the landscape of all of this look a little bit different. As with every high risk venture there were always the "nay sayers " the "never gunna happene ers" and the ones who claim they know more the you.

But we will wait and see how this plays out.

I dont mind the wait.

Quad B)/>

[dinarck]

With all due respect its pointless to make a case on the possible RV of the IQD simply because those who reside here only choose to see it one way. Bash if you will I dont really care............. There just might be a currency adjustment that will make the landscape of all of this look a little bit different. As with every high risk venture there were always the "nay sayers " the "never gunna happene ers" and the ones who claim they know more the you.

But we will wait and see how this plays out.

I dont mind the wait.

Quad B)/>/>

The whole point of this thread was to point out that there is no such thing as a RV. You really haven't brought anything forward to show otherwise.

[JoeFriday]

With all due respect its pointless to make a case on the possible RV of the IQD simply because those who reside here only choose to see it one way.

Is there no data we can use to support an assertion about this (one way or the other)? I'd say there is quite a lot actually.

As Dinarck says, if you want to make that case that a huge RV is possible, please do so, otherwise what is the point of just saying so? Nor does this explain your previous post which I'm still interested in hearing.

Edited December 5, 2012 by JoeFriday

[fastarnie]

Dinarck,

You are not wrong. I just really hope you are. I don't have much dinar, so really it's not a risk to me. This will neither make or break me no matter what happens. I just hope that TPTB are doing an experiment that goes in my favor for once.

Just because you are not wrong doesn't give the right to be cocky, either. You have little couth(sp). I'm sure face to face you would not talk to me in this manner. You are an intelligent person. I think that you could come up with better wording that doesn't make people want to grab you by the throat. Just sayin.

[dinarck]

Dinarck,

You are not wrong. I just really hope you are. I don't have much dinar, so really it's not a risk to me. This will neither make or break me no matter what happens. I just hope that TPTB are doing an experiment that goes in my favor for once.

Just because you are not wrong doesn't give the right to be cocky, either. You have little couth(sp). I'm sure face to face you would not talk to me in this manner. You are an intelligent person. I think that you could come up with better wording that doesn't make people want to grab you by the throat. Just sayin. ;)/>

Thanks arnie. Sorry if I am coming off that way but I think a straight forward approach is justified in this case. Years of misinformation, hype campaigns, straight out lies, deception, and low life scum bag pumpers taking advantage of people has really done a number on people's common sense. Everyone wants to be rich. Everyone wants to believe that they are going to be rich. No one wants to hear that they are not going to be rich. Everyone wants to be told they are going to be rich. You see it over at Sheeples Dinar all the time. Sweet talk to keep the sheep in the flock. We are all a family here at so and so pumper site. We love each and everyone of you and are praying for you and this "blessing" that is coming. Lol. It's con man 101. Make people feel welcome and liked so you can continue to take advantage of them. People trust you more if you sweet talk them with niceties. Special wording that makes people feel better isn't going to solve anything. Straight forward in your face facts and debate is what is needed to wake people up out of the dinar coma that internet scam artist have created over the years by hypnotizing thousands of unknowing "investors" using made up economic events that promise overnight riches.

[quadkidd1]

Thanks arnie. Sorry if I am coming off that way but I think a straight forward approach is justified in this case. Years of misinformation, hype campaigns, straight out lies, deception, and low life scum bag pumpers taking advantage of people has really done a number on people's common sense. Everyone wants to be rich. Everyone wants to believe that they are going to be rich. No one wants to hear that they are not going to be rich. Everyone wants to be told they are going to be rich. You see it over at Sheeples Dinar all the time. Sweet talk to keep the sheep in the flock. We are all a family here at so and so pumper site. We love each and everyone of you and are praying for you and this "blessing" that is coming. Lol. It's con man 101. Make people feel welcome and liked so you can continue to take advantage of them. People trust you more if you sweet talk them with niceties. Special wording that makes people feel better isn't going to solve anything. Straight forward in your face facts and debate is what is needed to wake people up out of the dinar coma that internet scam artist have created over the years by hypnotizing thousands of unknowing "investors" using made up economic events that promise overnight riches.

Soooooooooo dinarck,

Please enlighten us here. As you state in this post

" misinformation, hype campaigns, straight out lies, deception, and low life scum bag pumper's taking advantage of people has really done a number on people's common sense"

Then I want to know what you think of this very site you choose to spout.

There is plenty of niceties spoken here too.... does this mean that IYO this falls under Your categories as described above?

Most of the time there IS a caveat preceding a post something like IMHO and we are all free to decide for ourselves what to get into and what to stay away from.

Right?

So until the fat lady sings ...it aint over till its over.

You have a very strong opinion of what this investment is all about and so do others.

I have considered both sides of this coin. There has been much evidence IMO to keep me interested.

How's about our very own stock market?

How's that going for you.

A sure thing?

I don't think so.

Everything involves risk.

And as one great philosopher said so famously...

with great risk comes great reward.

Man Im out!

Take it for what its worth..........

Quad drops the mike and walks off

[rightsonword]

lol @ anyone holding dinar in the hopes it appreciates to a penny within 10-20 years. with inflation, theres nothing to be made.

[jackster]

Corruption and capitalism go hand in hand guys.

Think about it.........

Quad B)/>/>

Communism and corruption go hand-in-hand as well. Capitalists have not cornered the market on corruption.

The sellers of IQD are also capitalists. Think about it.......

Adam Montana is a capitalist. Are you suggesting that he is corrupt?

Edited December 5, 2012 by jackster

[dinarck]

Soooooooooo dinarck,

Please enlighten us here. As you state in this post

" misinformation, hype campaigns, straight out lies, deception, and low life scum bag pumper's taking advantage of people has really done a number on people's common sense"

Then I want to know what you think of this very site you choose to spout.

There is plenty of niceties spoken here too.... does this mean that IYO this falls under Your categories as described above?

Most of the time there IS a caveat preceding a post something like IMHO and we are all free to decide for ourselves what to get into and what to stay away from.

Right?

So until the fat lady sings ...it aint over till its over.

You have a very strong opinion of what this investment is all about and so do others.

I have considered both sides of this coin. There has been much evidence IMO to keep me interested.

How's about our very own stock market?

How's that going for you.

A sure thing?

I don't think so.

Everything involves risk.

And as one great philosopher said so famously...

with great risk comes great reward.

Man Im out!

Take it for what its worth..........

Quad drops the mike and walks off B)/>

What evidence do you speak of? Kraperoni chats and Okie posts? Like I said. Thus thread is about the nonexistence of RVs. What evidence do you have to support one? ZERO!!! There is no such thing. Wake up!

[quadkidd1]

Communism and corruption go hand-in-hand as well. Capitalists have not cornered the market on corruption.

The sellers of IQD are also capitalists. Think about it.......

Adam Montana is a capitalist. Are you suggesting that he is corrupt?

WOW!!!!!!!

No not at all.

Please do not group/stereotype...........or try to put words in my mouth!

Not what I said or was implying but how typical of this forum.... lets start a fight...

That is my last response here.

I have more productive and positive things to do.

Have a nice day!!!

Quad

[jackster]

WOW!!!!!!!

No not at all.

Please do not group/stereotype...........or try to put words in my mouth!

Not what I said or was implying but how typical of this forum.... lets start a fight...

That is my last response here.

I have more productive and positive things to do.

Have a nice day!!!

Quad B)/>

"Capitalism and corruption go hand-in-hand" is a stereotype. A generalization suggesting that all capitalists are corrupt.

[pocono]

What evidence do you speak of? Kraperoni chats and Okie posts? Like I said. Thus thread is about the nonexistence of RVs. What evidence do you have to support one? ZERO!!! There is no such thing. Wake up!

You know your challenge will go unanswered as is always the case...

At least take comfort in the fact that the days of George Bush said,the UST has, and the imaginary Kuwait RV are not offered as 'proof" any more.

[JoeFriday]

You have a very strong opinion of what this investment is all about and so do others.

I have considered both sides of this coin. There has been much evidence IMO to keep me interested.

Is it just dueling opinions? I don't think so. One side has clear support that an RV can not happen. The other side does not offer solutions to these many fundamental problems, but just ignores them saying things like "you can't know" or "its just your opinion".

How's about our very own stock market?

How's that going for you.

A sure thing?

I don't think so.

Everything involves risk.

The US stock market has done quite well over the last couple of years actually. Sure there is risk, but there is proportional return too. That is what is missing with the iQD as there is no possibility of a good return. Its not unlikely, its impossible.

And as one great philosopher said so famously...

with great risk comes great reward.

So closing your eyes on the freeway comes with great reward? Sometimes great reward comes with great risk, but risk alone does not imply reward.