Fiscal Cliff Negotiations: Republicans Ought to Simply Walk Away

[BradyBear]

My Friends the writing is on the wall and President Bambam keeps writing on it whith more and more signs. This guy has throughly read Mein Kampf and is trying to turn our AMERICA into a socialist state with him all the power to help usher in a one world government!!!

[Roadrunner]

A few weeks ago I called such a figure, a trillion dollars, incomprehensible, and I’ve been trying ever since to think of a way to illustrate how big a trillion really is. And the best I could come up with is that if you had a stack of thousand-dollar bills in your hand only 4 inches high, you’d be a millionaire. A trillion dollars would be a stack of thousand-dollar bills 67 miles high.

Ronald Reagan 1981

I posted that quote just to bring some reality to this discussion. When we start talking about increasing taxes by 1.6 Trillion dollars, it helps to put things in the right perspective. If 1 trillion in $1000 bills reaches 67 miles high, then a one trillion stack of $1 bills would obviously be 67,000 miles. If you multiply that times 1.6 it comes to a stack of dollar bills 107,200 miles high. By comparison, it is only 238,000 miles to the moon. When we as a country are almost bankrupt and most people are struggling to just keep food on the table and a roof over their heads, it is ridiculous for anyone to even suggest this kind of additional tax burden.

Roadrunner

Edited December 1, 2012 by Roadrunner

[Nelg]

Republicans should just go ahead and de-fund Obamacare, 100%. DO IT NOW before this fraud goes on vacation!

Something similar happened during the Clinton administration and it got his attention. Do not give the president ANYTHING!!! Not until he humbles himself and stops his arrogant, dictatorial demands of the congress. His latest demands are to a. remove the filibuster from congress; b. approve HIS budget totally; c. remove the limits to the debt ceiling. In other words, give me what I want! Such an attitude is going to come back and haunt him. He may find himself "eating grass" until he learns humility.(cf. Daniel 4)

[WallyWeaver]

Stand your ground Mr. Boehner, there are MANY standing with you in solidarity.

WW.

Boehner on 'Cliff' Talks: 'We're Almost Nowhere'

Published: Friday, 30 Nov 2012 | 2:22 PM ET

By: CNBC.com with Wires

House Speaker John Boehner lashed out Friday at President Barack Obama, saying negotiations to avoid the "fiscal cliff" are "almost nowhere."

Boehner spoke after Republicans disclosed that the White House was $1.6 trillion in tax increases up front, as well as $50 billion in additional stimulus spending.

Boehner said the plan would be a "crippling blow" to an economy that is still struggling to find its footing.

"There's a stalemate. Let's not kid ourselves," the Ohio Republican told reporters. "Right now, we're almost nowhere,"

Even so, he added, he was determined to continue working with Obama.

A half-trillion-dollar combination of governmental spending cuts and tax increases for all Americans would automatically go into effect in January, threatening to send the country back into recession. Obama is pressing for an extension of Bush-era tax cuts only for individuals making less than $200,000 or families making under $250,000. He wants a tax increase for the wealthiest Americans.

A tax increase on middle class families would be like a "lump of coal" for Christmas, Obama said Friday during a campaign-style visit to a toy factory in Pennsylvania.

During the flight taking Obama to Pennsylvania, White House spokesman Josh Earnest expressed surprise by the Republican reaction because so much of the plan had already been proposed.

One new feature in the Obama plan is a call for increasing the nation's debt limit without the need for congressional approval. Under last year's debt ceiling deal, Obama simply had to notify Congress that he was raising the debt ceiling, a move that could be blocked only if both houses of Congress approved resolutions of disapproval that Obama could veto. The administration wants a permanent extension of the debt ceiling with a similar legislative arrangement and with no offsetting spending cuts, as demanded by Republicans.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said he “burst into laughter” when Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner outlined the administration proposal on Thursday because it was clear on tax increases but vague on spending cuts, according to the Weekly Standard.

The political uncertainty helped push markets lower Friday.

Link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/50023849

[WallyWeaver]

For those of you that believe Jesus was a socialist I'll point you to read the parable of the talents.

Thanks for the good word, Willy.

Here's an argument that I've heard often that's actually a great example of the failure of socialism and/ or communism.

Often I have heard people use the argument that the early church believed in and practiced communism. The verses that are used are found in Acts chapter 4:

"Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid [them] at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need." Acts 4:32-35

After showing you these verses the defenders of communism (DOC) will say, "See, there it is. With the birth of the church we have the birth of communism," or something along those lines. Then they smile rather smugly at you and await your response....

Well, here's the response: while it is true that the early church in Jerusalem did in fact practice communism, that same early church proved to be somewhat of a "burden of love" to the other churches throughout the New Testament. Did you ever notice that often in Paul's epistles he is collecting money from the churches around the Mediterranean (Ephesus, Corinth, Galatia, etc.)? And why was it that Paul was always collecting money from the churches he would visit/ plant? It was because the church at Jerusalem was always out of money so Paul had to continuously take up a collection to support them! You see, they sold their homes and their businesses and shared them amongst each other and all was wonderful for awhile. And then they ran out of money!

So, the very argument that DOC use to try to prove communism is actually an indictment against communism as you read further in the N.T. It is the classic example of taking something out of context and trying to prove an unwarranted point.....

Anyway, keep soldiering on Willy. Thanks for your excellent participation on this thread.

WW.

[WallyWeaver]

My Friends the writing is on the wall and President Bambam keeps writing on it whith more and more signs. This guy has throughly read Mein Kampf and is trying to turn our AMERICA into a socialist state with him all the power to help usher in a one world government!!!

Substitute "Rules for Radicals" for "Mein Kampf" and you've got it.

Thanks for the comment.

WW.

A few weeks ago I called such a figure, a trillion dollars, incomprehensible, and I’ve been trying ever since to think of a way to illustrate how big a trillion really is. And the best I could come up with is that if you had a stack of thousand-dollar bills in your hand only 4 inches high, you’d be a millionaire. A trillion dollars would be a stack of thousand-dollar bills 67 miles high.

Ronald Reagan 1981

Great quote and great point.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

WW.

[WallyWeaver]

Something similar happened during the Clinton administration and it got his attention. Do not give the president ANYTHING!!! Not until he humbles himself and stops his arrogant, dictatorial demands of the congress. His latest demands are to a. remove the filibuster from congress; b. approve HIS budget totally; c. remove the limits to the debt ceiling. In other words, give me what I want! Such an attitude is going to come back and haunt him. He may find himself "eating grass" until he learns humility.(cf. Daniel 4)

It's my belief that Obama is purposely over reaching so that he will end up getting what he wants (which is less than what he is asking for). But by asking for twice as much as he asked for before he may be strategically setting up Boehner...... In other words, he originally wanted a $600 billion tax increase the last time we went through this but that was rejected. Now he is asking for twice that so he will tell Boehner he is willing to compromise and then he'll go down to $600 billion and Boehner will accept. And the President will end up getting what he originally wanted.... Pretty shrewd but Obama has already played Boehner twice.... and boy did Boehner get played twice by Obama.

Oh, and Obama is no Nebuchadnezzar, that would require a penchant towards humility...... he's more along the lines of an Antiochus Epiphanes, in a destructive sense.

Thanks for coming aboard, Nelg.

WW.

[captjohnk]

For those that can't understand what our gloryiest leader is proposeing here it is in a nutshell:

I WANT COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROL TO DO WHAT EVER I WISH AND GIVE TO WHOMEVER I CHOSE AND YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT. SO SHALL I SAY SO SHALL IT BE DONE..................................!

[lizabeth1]

It sure looks like they have already walked...it's time to start doing the job they were sent to do..

[willy1der]

It sure looks like they have already walked...it's time to start doing the job they were sent to do..

They are doing the job they were sent to do. They were re-elected as well. That's the great thing about what our founding fathers designed with the three branches of government, so we would have checks and balances. The president is between a rock and a hard place, this is on his watch. I believe Bob Woodward made a great point on Hannity last night, name the speaker of the house in 1929 off the top of your head, most of us can't. But we know who was president then, Herbert Hoover.