Surprise! Jobless Claims Up 78,000 Week After Election; PA, OH Worst Hit

[WallyWeaver]

I see that dontlop started a similar thread in the Off Topic section but there is new data available and this is an actual article written on the subject (it's also posted in a different section).

The main point here is the effect of Sandy on the jobless claims is negligible at best, as the numbers show (see below). It's interesting that Pennsylvania and Ohio, which both could be considered swing states, both voted for Obama and yet both saw a dramatic rise in unemployment applications post-election.

WW.

Surprise! Jobless Claims Up 78,000 Week After Election; PA, OH Worst Hit

by Joel B. Pollak15 Nov 2012, 5:36 AM PDT

The Department of Labor has announced that new jobless claims rose by a staggering 78,000 in the first week after the election, reaching a seasonally-adjusted total of 439,000. Over the past year, and in the weeks leading up to the election, jobless claims were said to be declining, dipping as low as 339,000, with the media proclaiming that they had reached the "lowest level in more than four years." Now, suddenly, the news seems far less rosy.

From the Department of Labor press release this morning:

In the week ending November 10, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 439,000, an increase of 78,000 from the previous week's revised figure of 361,000. The 4-week moving average was 383,750, an increase of 11,750 from the previous week's revised average of 372,000.

Some of the new claims, especially in New Jersey, were due to Hurricane Sandy--but these were offset by a decline in claims filed in New York. The highest numbers of new filings came from Pennsylvania and Ohio, where there were thousands of layoffs in the construction, manufacturing, and automobile industries.

Both states had been targeted by the presidential campaigns. President Obama highlighted his record of job creation in Ohio in particular, focusing on the automobile industry. The state reported 6,450 new jobless claims in the week after the election--second-highest after Pennsylvania, which recorded 7,766 new claims.

Link: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/15/Surprise-Jobless-Claims-Up-Over-75000

[Crow]

Well this is the hope and change they voted on the first time.....now they want to move forward......The only forward moving will be in the unemployment line or the welfare line! I dont want to hear about Bush anymore...Obama had the first two years of veto proof majority he got most of what he wanted through and after 4 TRILLION dollars we are worse than ever! I voted for ROMNEY so dont ***** to me, its not my fault!

[WallyWeaver]

Well this is the hope and change they voted on the first time.....now they want to move forward......The only forward moving will be in the unemployment line or the welfare line! I dont want to hear about Bush anymore...Obama had the first two years of veto proof majority he got most of what he wanted through and after 4 TRILLION dollars we are worse than ever! I voted for ROMNEY so dont ***** to me, its not my fault!

Well said, Crow.

It will be interesting to hear all of the media excuses over the next 4 years as to why things seem to be getting worse.

Check that: if the economy gets worse it will probably get the same amount of MSM coverage as Benghazi.

WW.

[dontlop]

what obama doesnt want you to know .. the economy is set to explode ,, people are tired of sitting around ..obama is holding it back for higher tax rates .. so when this takes off he will get even more tax dollars than he would get off just a economic expansion alone ..he doesnt have enough money to cover obama care and will be in thre red throughout his 8 years .. obama care will go bankrupt without tax increases .. even though he said it would be cheaper .. obama will let it go over the cliff .. and then start obama middle class tax cuts .. after bush tax cuts expire .. only problem .. february will be time to raise our debt limit .. and if he goes over the cliff .. he wont be able to borrow a dime another credit rating drop will come .. so his only answer is to print money and devalue the dollar even further .. at which point he would need more tax dollars because dollar isnt worth as much .. middle class will suffer even more .. nothing will change except the amount of debt our country has ..they have to cut every single govt program 25% .. all of them ,, all their pay needs cut 25% ..,, every stinking last govt program eand entitlement needs cut 25% .. then ill except a 2% tax increase across the board for 5 years when it automatically expires and taxes go down .. ya dont expand govt again .,. if you got extra money ..ya lower taxes

Edited November 15, 2012 by dontlop

[WallyWeaver]

.. so his only answer is to print money and devalue the dollar even further ..

Thanks for the comment and your above statement is correct. The ONLY answer now is to print what is needed.... we are too far down the road of QE now to do anything else.

This short video explains the QE mess we are in and why, no matter what happens, QE cannot stop until the system collapses:

[parmenio]

Let the whole damn thing implode!!! As for those idiots who voted for the coward- in- chief and lose their jobs ..."elections have consequenses."

[Maggie123]

Hi WallyWeaver I'll bet you would know the answer to this... Does the President have any control over the Fed Reserve?

It has always been my understanding that it is a private bank and that our government has no say in how they form their policies.

Interested to hear your informed response about this. Thank You.

[GODyesRVmaybe]

Surprise! Jobless Claims Up 78,000 Week After Election; PA, OH Worst Hit

I'm shocked, just shocked. Next you're going to tell me that MSNBC isn't reporting this coincidence.

[dontlop]

the govt is showing us all how to get money for nothing .. its called check kiting

Check kiting is a form of fraud involving the sloshing of theoretical funds between two bank checking accounts. A check written to the criminal from one bank is deposited, and more importantly credited, to an account at a second bank. Because that second bank now shows a positive balance, the criminal can withdraw enough money to deposit back into the first bank before the check bounces for lack of funds.

This form of check kiting may seem to be too complicated for such a small payoff, but sloshing the funds back and forth between accounts can buy the criminal enough time to generate real money to cover any other outstanding checks. Some people have been known to use this method, called circular check kiting, when several checks on an overdrawn account may come due before a paycheck or other regular funds can be deposited. The circular check kiting scheme depends on the bank's delay between receipt of deposits and checks and their eventual processing, also known as "float time."

this is the feds job constant computer payopffs between govt and banks .. .. they need the fed for this scam .. id rather just have the treasury with a constituional balanced budget amendment ..

Edited November 15, 2012 by dontlop

[WallyWeaver]

Hi WallyWeaver I'll bet you would know the answer to this... Does the President have any control over the Fed Reserve?

It has always been my understanding that it is a private bank and that our government has no say in how they form their policies.

Interested to hear your informed response about this. Thank You.

Here's my understanding:

The Fed Chief does (sort of) serve at the pleasure of the President. It is, afterall, the President who appoints the Fed Chief from the Board of Governors.

Also, along with nominating new members for the Board of Governor's the President is allowed to remove 1 member from the Board, if the President so chooses, before their term is up.

So, because the Fed Chief is a human being (and no one likes to get fired) the Fed Chief generally does what he/ she can to support the policies of the President that is in office.

It is important to note, however, that the Fed Chief can't just do whatever he/ she wants. Policies set by the Fed have be voted on by a majority of the voting members of the FOMC. Of course, there is some added power to being the Fed Chief, but it's not a dictatorship.

WW.

[Maggie123]

Thank You WW

That is one confusing Central Bank!!! I used to think it belonged to the US.

I have been so disurbed by QE II & III that I have been trying to figure out what is going on and how we could return control of our monitary policy back to our country.

Am I correct that our government really has no say about them printing money into oblivian... that their decisions are made privately and they don't have to report to congress or anyone else? ( I take that back I heard they covered everything in 6 hours last year )

I believe that Ron Paul finally got his bill passed this year to audit them, I sure hope there will be enough teeth in it to enforce a real legitimate audit.

That may be the only way to catch them if they are committing crimes, I know they will be one big giant to bring down... but I'd love to see it in my day.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Maggie123

[Nani?]

I don't think just because Obama got elected bosses went in the next day and said... well I gotta let you go... come on these losses were probably already going to happen. That said there has been a whole lot of hope and a whole log of change but has the change been good? I think it remains to be seen. Change always causes pain whether it is good or bad. The ones in power claim that everyone has to make sacrifices while they sit fat and happy. The ones who don't have a voice shout that they don't like the plan yet no one can hear them and it is likely they don't have a solution of their own to offer. If you think all this is black and white well then that is probably why you are not a politician. I can only hope that the people that are making the decisions really do have the countries best interest in mind, and are just stupid. But come on I'm sure Obama doesn't just think up these ideas all by himself it's a committee of idiots. One man won't be allowed to bring the country down by himself that is why there are checks and balances... they'll do it by committee

[WallyWeaver]

I have been so disurbed by QE II & III that I have been trying to figure out what is going on and how we could return control of our monitary policy back to our country.

Am I correct that our government really has no say about them printing money into oblivian... that their decisions are made privately and they don't have to report to congress or anyone else?

Maggie, please watch the video I posted above on "What is POMO?" It is very short (just over 4 minutes long) but it will answer many of your questions.

The truth is QE cannot be stopped now. Once the path toward printing your way out of trouble starts, rather than let the system correct itself, it cannot be stopped. As is pointed out in the video the only reason for QE, at this point, is to keep the financial institutions solvent. In other words, if QE were to be stopped now our entire financial system would collapse in less than a year (our entire payment system is based on credit and debt; if the credit dries up, businesses don't get paid, bills don't get paid, etc.... until collapse).

How do we get out of this mess? I don't know the answer to that.....

What will the likely outcome be? We will kick the can all the way down the road until it goes off the cliff and there will be a complete, world wide financial system reset with a new pecking order in economic powers (The US will no longer be #1 and will be lucky to be in the top 5).

And that's how I see it.

WW.

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

***///

Now does anyone see clearly -- the great lie...?

Created ALL those jobs in PA & Ohio.... really...?

Stands to reason those 2 States would be the first in line for the great obummer hand-out.

They love him SO much there and all (supposedly) voted for him.

He repays them by generously allowing them all to be first in line for the free stuff.

Welcome to the 'STATE'....

He'll just pull the handle on his one-armed fed bandit - cha-ching! - and freshly-printed up

money will come pouring out.

So when all his 'supporters' are sleeping in late, watching t.v., chatting on obamaphones, getting

free groceries, living in gubment housing, and slamming the emergency rooms

for free obummer(low calibre)care, he'll point and say "see, told ya i'd take care of ya..."!

Once all his sheeple are good and hooked - BANG!, there goes REAL Life, Liberty, Happiness.

Such a trickster - "looka this hand, folks!".... meanwhile with the other he's stripping you of every

Freedom you ever had and your children will never know.

Pathetic.

[Maggie123]

Maggie, please watch the video I posted above on "What is POMO?" It is very short, just over 4 minutes long, but it will answer many of your questions.

The truth is QE cannot be stopped now. Once the path toward printing your way out of trouble starts, rather than let the system correct itself, it cannot be stopped. As is pointed out in the video the only reason for QE, at this point, is to keep the financial institutions solvent. In other words, if QE were to be stopped now our entire financial system would collapse in less than a year (our entire payment system is based on credit, if the credit dries up, businesses don't get paid, bills don't get paid, etc.... until collapse).

How do we get out of this mess? I don't know the answer to that.....

I did Wally, Thank You it was very informative.

Whats maddening is it seems the only ones getting benefit from all these billions in fake money are The Big Banks.

They are just trading it between themselves, it seems to have nothing to do with loosening up lending for businesses, and surely nothing there for us little people.

There honestly doesn't seem to be a way out of this mess for us, it looks to me like a last minute "Grab" by all the big bankers before the collapse they know is unavoidable.

I can't even imagine what that will be like.

[WallyWeaver]

I don't think just because Obama got elected bosses went in the next day and said... well I gotta let you go... come on these losses were probably already going to happen.

Thanks for the comment, Nani?.

A couple of things to note:

1. These jobless claim numbers were tallied on Nov. 3rd, which was BEFORE the Presidential election. We just didn't get the results until AFTER we voted. Funny how that worked out, huh?

2. Regarding the comment I selected above: Actually, I know quite a few small business owners, and have talked to many more, who have been living on fumes for the past few years. Many of them have just barely been turning a profit, and some of them have been living off of savings from better times, living on the hope that there would be a leadership change in Washington. Many I have spoken to have said the only reason they were hanging on is for the hope that things would change for the better for small businesses (regulation, taxes).

So, it will be very interesting to see the numbers post-election.

The rest of your post was stellar.

WW.

[WallyWeaver]

***///

So when all his 'supporters' are sleeping in late, watching t.v., chatting on obamaphones, getting

free groceries, living in gubment housing, and slamming the emergency rooms

for free obummer(low calibre)care, he'll point and say "see, told ya i'd take care of ya..."!

Once all his sheeple are good and hooked - BANG!, there goes REAL Life, Liberty, Happiness.

Such a trickster - "looka this hand, folks!".... meanwhile with the other he's stripping you of every

Freedom you ever had and your children will never know.

Pathetic.

I got one for you, ladies (don't know if you saw it yet but it's pretty profound):

Thanks for the comment.

WW.

[Jmcc]

I got one for you, ladies (don't know if you saw it yet but it's pretty profound):

Thanks for the comment.

WW.

History tends to repeat itself and we are going down that road again.

[WallyWeaver]

Whats maddening is it seems the only ones getting benefit from all these billions in fake money are The Big Banks.

Correct. The massive debasement of our currency is only so the banks don't go kaput. Our system of credit and debt has definitely gotten us into a big pickle. Something to consider, though: is it the fault of the banks or is it the fault of the Central Bank?

They are just trading it between themselves, it seems to have nothing to do with loosening up lending for businesses, and surely nothing there for us little people.

This is mostly correct. They are trading between themselves if you mean the banks and the Central Bank. If the economy starts moving again the banks will start lending again. Here's the problem, though: Up until now a lot of the money the Fed has printed has been held on to by the banks so we haven't really seen any major inflationary effects, yet. If the economy does start growing and banks do start releasing that cash into the markets we will finally see that hyper-inflation everyone has been talking about. So, again, we are in a serious pickle right now.

There honestly doesn't seem to be a way out of this mess for us, it looks to me like a last minute "Grab" by all the big bankers before the collapse they know is unavoidable.

The real insidious thing is the banks (banks and Central Bank) do know a collapse is coming. This is why there is such a mad dash for tangible assets like gold and silver by all of the big banks.

I can't even imagine what that will be like.

I saw an article today and thought it was interesting, but I didn't bring it over.

The jist of the article is Helicopter Ben was being critical of how tight the home lending laws have become. He thinks that the standards went from being way too lax to way too tight, and wants to see some loosening to improve home sales.

My take: the real problem our financial system faces is the $1.2 quadrillion in debt on the books in the form of OTC (Over The Counter) derivatives. Most of these derivatives are in the form of worthless mortgage backed securities. Ben thinks he sees a way out of this whole mess if we can start getting these securities off the books by selling a whole bunch of homes. Can it really work, though? I don't know.... it's really the only play they've got.

WW.

[WallyWeaver]

History tends to repeat itself and we are going down that road again.

I'm blaming the public education system.... and popular media.... and liberalism..... and......

Thanks for the comment.

WW.

[Maggie123]

I saw an article today and thought it was interesting, but I didn't bring it over.

The jist of the article is Helicopter Ben was being critical of how tight the home lending laws have become. He thinks that the standards went from being way too lax to way too tight, and wants to see some loosening to improve home sales.

My take: the real problem our financial system faces is the $1.2 quadrillion in debt on the books in the form of OTC (Over The Counter) derivatives. Most of these derivatives are in the form of worthless mortgage backed securities. Ben thinks he sees a way out of this whole mess if we can start getting these securities off the books by selling a whole bunch of homes. Can it really work, though? I don't know.... it's really the only play they've got.

WW.

Thanks for your replies WW

~Who is it the fault of... the banks or the fault Of The Central Bank? Hmmm I would say both... the big banks for (over) creating the MBS's and being so greedy about keeping them going at a faster pace than our markets could bare. The Fed Reserve for giving them unlimited bailouts? So my guess is both.

~So if the economy grows, interest goes up and hyper-inflation will happen... why can't they loan while Mr. Ben keep the rates low and gives the economy a little time to catch up to a higher rate.

The article sounds interesting... let me see if I can keep up with you.. OTC derivitives are what they are selling each other right now? (based from MBS"s)

Ben Thinks if they loosen lending for homebuyers, they will buy up the foreclosures and the banks can get them off their books...Soooo they can dump their debt and start lending again? Haha.. the only way that would work is if they did it right this time and actually made sure the buyers were qualified... I mean really qualified and no breath on the mirror and sign here kind of deals... Somehow the economy would have to be moving in the right direction to have more qualified buyers and if homes were selling then construction could start up again and it could maybe help. They sure have a lot of houses to move don't they? I see new ones come up with the white sheet of paper in the window everyday.

I believe it was Sparta that posted an article not to long ago that they were thinking about creating RBS"s (Rent Backed Securities) from Fannie Mae to sell...

We could all just rent from Fannie and they would bundle the rental agreements and sell them abroad.

[Maggie123]

Quick comment on the MBS's... I believe they bundled and rebundled the same mortgages several times and if that is so... then there wouldn't be enough foreclosures to sell to clear their books... does that make sense?

[WallyWeaver]

Thanks for your replies WW

Thank you as well.

~Who is it the fault of... the banks or the fault Of The Central Bank? Hmmm I would say both... the big banks for (over) creating the MBS's and being so greedy about keeping them going at a faster pace than our markets could bare. The Fed Reserve for giving them unlimited bailouts? So my guess is both. Okay, it is true that technically they are both at fault. I guess I've read too many Ron Paul speeches, though, because if we didn't have a Federal Reserve and a fiat monetary system we wouldn't have half the troubles we have today. So to me, the bigger culprit here is the Central Bank (money printing, interest rate manipulation, etc.) but, again, you are correct that there are ethical problems on both sides.

~So if the economy grows, interest goes up and hyper-inflation will happen... why can't they loan while Mr. Ben keep the rates low and gives the economy a little time to catch up to a higher rate.

I think this is exactly what they hope to do. But they are going to need a more robust, growing economy to pull it off.

The article sounds interesting... let me see if I can keep up with you.. OTC derivitives are what they are selling each other right now? (based from MBS"s)

Yes.

Ben Thinks if they loosen lending for homebuyers, they will buy up the foreclosures and the banks can get them off their books...Soooo they can dump their debt and start lending again? Haha.. the only way that would work is if they did it right this time and actually made sure the buyers were qualified... I mean really qualified and no breath on the mirror and sign here kind of deals... Somehow the economy would have to be moving in the right direction to have more qualified buyers and if homes were selling then construction could start up again and it could maybe help. They sure have a lot of houses to move don't they? (I think there is somewhere north of 5 million homes on the books, including the shadow inventory) I see new ones come up with the white sheet of paper in the window everyday.

This is why I think Romney was our best choice. I really thought if there was one thing he would've been good at it would've been to get the economic wheels to start turning again. Yes, it ultimately would've led to hyper-inflation, but if Americans were to start going back to work I think we could've made it through okay. But that ship has sailed.... I don't think anyone is exactly sure what an Obama second term is going to look like, including Obama, but I suppose we're about to find out.

I believe it was Sparta that posted an article not to long ago that they were thinking about creating RBS"s (Rent Backed Securities) from Fannie Mae to sell...

We could all just rent from Fannie and they would bundle the rental agreements and sell them abroad.

Sounds like we're both pretty much on the same page, Maggie.

WW.

Quick comment on the MBS's... I believe they bundled and rebundled the same mortgages several times and if that is so... then there wouldn't be enough foreclosures to sell to clear their books... does that make sense?

They did, and do (sell them in bundles), and yes (it makes sense). My understanding is this is a main reason why there is a total of $1.2 quadrillion+ on the books.

Deep doo-doo we are in.

WW.

[Maggie123]

Sounds like we're both pretty much on the same page, Maggie.

They did, and do (sell them in bundles), and yes (it makes sense). This is why there is a total of $1.2 quadrillion+ on the books.

Deep doo-doo we are in.

WW.

Thank You For The Compliment... I think you have studied far more than I have. You taught me a couple things and made me think about things I hadn't.

AND YUPPERS... We Are In Deep doo-doo My Friend. You cracked me up!

Nice Chatting With You WW

$1.2 quadrillion+ on the books! WOW!!!

Edited November 16, 2012 by Maggie123

[Maggie123]

Of Course I would agree with You and Ron Paul about the Fed Reserve being the bigger culprit, after what you pointed out.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Maggie123