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BH Group indicted


Rayzur
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I also think this isnt about the Dinar itself but more on the lines of misleading the public about an "instant millionare scam" versus being the long term investment it is. I also thing this is more about misrepresentaion and the non exsistant hedge funds. Resulting in frued... I just dont think this is about what the UST does or doesnt have or the actual RV RI or RD..

But again I am not an attorney just my thoughts...

so where is the prosecutors this info from?

1.i mean is his people read the same news we are reading

2.does he have contacts that can tell him this information. he can't go into court and just give his opinion on how much the dinar the US has and if i would RD @1.17

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Only someone with a nefarious agenda would try to propagate a lie that these so-called gurus could be brought up on charges for living in their own fantasy world. While all our other freedoms are being taken away, by liberal terorism, the freedom of speech is the one freedom left alone by liberals to continue their own agenda. If someone listened to these so-called gurus and bought dinar, they are responsible for their own foolish acts. Futhermore, the fact you state the US Treasury owned a LITTLE dinar, leads one to beleve, like all extremely wealthy people, their understating their assets. "I have a way to pay for this war, and it wont cost american taxpayers one dime." George W. Bush. You can deny it all you want but I saw him make that statement.

Just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page as I'm not sure if you are suggesting that I am personally stating any of the content with which you take issue. I could not cut and paste the document into this thread, (per reasons stated initially) and basically did a rough summary of what was contained in the Court documents that were filed. Regarding a nefarious agenda, I don't believe this Court filing is fake as I pulled it off one of the sites that propogate Court filings for respondants reference, involved parties etc etc. If you read the Court filing of charges, you'll note that they are not charged with living in a fantasy world, but more along the lines of conspiracy to commit fraud on a number of levels.

Also want to make sure you know I did not state the UST had little dinar in reserve, and it was part of the charges levied against these gurus, who had stated the contrary. This along with other information shared on calls led individuals to invest in hedge fund programs that likewise did not exist. My guess is that its the hedge fund thing put this crew on top of the poo poo pile for prosecution.

I'm not an attorney, though have experience being accountable as gov't to the federal circuit and would note for some of my colleagues, that it takes more than "intel" especially the kind we find on these websites, to meet the threshold necessary to convene a Grand Jury. I don't have any experience with this district of the federal courts, but I would be fairly confident that the rules governing this Circuit like any other, are clearly estabished and this was not whimsically filed. I also know that a hell of a lot of investigation, fact finding, and perhaps interviews (versus depositions), had to occur to meet this threshold, and long before any charges were filed. I would guess this has been extensively investigated before the BH was raided, and long after information was obtained from that raid, before these guys were charged.

To speculate that maybe federal attorneys may have greater access to behind the scenes information is kind of, with respect, the understatement of the century. The attorneys don't do the investigation as such per se, its the agents of those arms of the federal agencies involved, that investigate (e.g., fbi, ust, irs agents). And keep in mind this is the US government filing these charges, meaning all agencies of the USG involved participate together in investigating, and making these charges. And no USG agency has Nstated what Shabibi is going to do in charging these gurus. Instead, they state that the Executive Order interpretation by these gurus was wrong/false/incorrect, and/or other factors claimed as truth were in fact, contrary to what has been claimed by the USG, or the CBI announcements of Iraq. There are no claims as to what will happen apart from noting the difference between the guru claim and the governments claims... and that the gurus were knowingly making false claims in order to profit off people....

Again, not my info, not my allegations or charges, just my report of such and thereafgter opinions as to its meaning....

Like Patrotic Party Girl said.... its going to be interesting watching this develop to see what happens.... and it certainly seems like something is coming to a head....

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so where is the prosecutors this info from?

1.i mean is his people read the same news we are reading

2.does he have contacts that can tell him this information. he can't go into court and just give his opinion on how much the dinar the US has and if i would RD @1.17

What I mean is from what I can tell so far they really dont care about the dinar. The dinar was being used as a means to get people to invest in the hedge funds.. this is just establishing how the relationships were formed...

Again I am not a leagal expert..

They did state in the complaint the CBI had an article out in 2011 so I think it is reasonable to think they got the information from public news feeds. If not then the CBI would have had to have submitted an affidavit to confrim this which would have had to been attached to the complaint. (At least that is my understanding). Since there was no attached affidavit then the article will be submitted in the discovery. Again that is my understanding of how it will work I am not a legal expert and not trying to be one. These are just my thoughts as to what this is about...

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I am not an Attorney however as a former small business owner I had to file complaints in court to collect from very over due accounts ect ect.

Basiclly the Attorneys have filed a complaint in court. I have not analyzed the whole complaint but from scanning the complaint. Any info to the Dinar about RD or RV ect has come from news stories. There seems to be no other info or insider information that they are using. I am going to sit down and read the whole thing.

Now the defendants have to reply to the complaint and of course you will have the discovery stage. Going to be intersting... Plus I want to see what the complaining Attorneys come up with proof as to what the UST has or does not have for Dinar.

So far by the looks of things this may plea out.. But again I am not an attorney just my thoughts...

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

In this link you can see that there is obviously no "Trillions" of dinars that are in the US Treasury's foreign holdings. The indictment states that this was a lie that was being told to investors in order to persuade them to buy products from them based on false pretenses, hence the charges of fraudulent schemes and artifices..

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I live in Toledo and work at a large law firm in Detroit. This is very serious. I tried to attach a copy of the Complaint but it is too big apparently to upload.

There is a section about wire transfers that is VERY interesting. For those of you who think this means nothing, think again. This has set a precedent and there will be others arrested. It's time to call it a day.

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Only $700,000 was related to the Hedge Funds. The rest of the $24 million was from scamming people about the Dinar investment. I would say the Dinar was certainly a major issue.

And I really doubt the prosecutor was making claims he could not back up, considering the UST would have been involved in the investigation.

This is, indeed, serious stuff.

Edited by RVPleaseToday
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We are in what I will call high risk spending. No one really has a 100% assurance of the future. Move your personal expectations of your spend to see opportunities out two to five years. Look at Facebook... it was going to be the hottest investment if the last 50 years. We all know it was a flop and billions of dollars by investors lost in a seven day period of time. Shares in the last week have gone up only two dollars. I one friend that lost $40,000 in cash.

Do not get jacked up when a guru posts news of we are close, today, this weekend, the back screens are blinking, my friend told me, a person I know working in the UST, Iraq, Currency trading or any other source... it is all BS.

Be careful.

Isnt breitling good friends with these guys? I would love to hear his take on it

Brietling is very close to these guys and was in fact in the Toledo location and just missed being snagged in the raid last year, how I read the blogs about the event. i have all had a very bad felling about him reading his own recieved emails and he always pumps himself first. He also pretends to stutter like it is the first time he have read the email. I totally feel he is well scripted and reads to his own agenda. He pushes WARKA, the ISX Watch (which he charges for), ISX, the buying of lower demons, and now he is using his following of listeners to start investing in Real Estate, hedge funds, and who knows what else.

I will say again be very careful, as the gurus and pumpers can dressed in many types of designs and communication.

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Isnt breitling good friends with these guys? I would love to hear his take on it

Its believed to be "tony" breitling or "anthony" breitling......whatever the alias.......was very close with the coehen's. Search google for another site and breitling......all kinds of associations. what does that mean?? Ask breitling....well dont......because now im sure its..........seperate and isolate from these clowns

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I am really confused. Is this stating that buying of physical dinars is a scam? Or are they referring to the buying of "reserves"?

The good news is that this is definitely not saying that the physical dinar is a scam, but the wire fraud, the hedge funds that did not exist, and most importantly, the Fraudulent Schemes and Artifices are the scams. Here is part of the definition that defines the crime of Fraudulent Schemes and Artifices:

"Any person who, pursuant to a scheme or artifice to defraud, knowingly obtains any benefit by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, promises or material omissions"

"As used in this section, "scheme or artifice to defraud" includes a scheme or artifice to deprive a person of the intangible right of honest services. "

As stated in the indictments, the clear lies regarding their background, education, and experiances in this type of investment, as well as providing misleading, and untruthful information regarding this type of investment in order to get their customers and members of their sites and conference calls to purchase various products and Dinar from them certainly falls within the definition of Fraudulent Schemes and Artifices. This is where the scam commes into play, and where they found themselves in the hot water they are now in. As long as they received the Dinar, and that it was not counterfeit, the physical dinars are fine, but the manner by which they were persuaded to purchase it, as well as other products, or promises given that they will be able to cash it in even in the event of a redenomination is where they committed a crime.

Edited by JayP
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The prosecuters do have access to a lot of info not in the press... If they state the UST has little dinar they would have a document from the UST as proof... I am sure they have direct access to Information specialists at the US Embasy in iraq with clear interpretations from the CBI/MOF press releases ...A LOT better than the ones we read. They stated that the CBI intends to RD in the future. Which we have heard... No statement the the Dinar would or would not RV. But the defendants may have induced sales by stating that there would be an RV to produce guaranteed profit. That is fraud even for consenting adults ....I am certain they have depositions and documents from disgruntaled customers as backup when they go to trial, if that is necessary...Lets see how the other dealers react.

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We are in what I will call high risk spending. No one really has a 100% assurance of the future. Move your personal expectations of your spend to see opportunities out two to five years. Look at Facebook... it was going to be the hottest investment if the last 50 years. We all know it was a flop and billions of dollars by investors lost in a seven day period of time. Shares in the last week have gone up only two dollars. I one friend that lost $40,000 in cash.

Do not get jacked up when a guru posts news of we are close, today, this weekend, the back screens are blinking, my friend told me, a person I know working in the UST, Iraq, Currency trading or any other source... it is all BS.

Be careful.

Brietling is very close to these guys and was in fact in the Toledo location and just missed being snagged in the raid last year, how I read the blogs about the event. i have all had a very bad felling about him reading his own recieved emails and he always pumps himself first. He also pretends to stutter like it is the first time he have read the email. I totally feel he is well scripted and reads to his own agenda. He pushes WARKA, the ISX Watch (which he charges for), ISX, the buying of lower demons, and now he is using his following of listeners to start investing in Real Estate, hedge funds, and who knows what else.

I will say again be very careful, as the gurus and pumpers can dressed in many types of designs and communication.

Yep. Grouped by association.

The prosecuters do have access to a lot of info not in the press... If they state the UST has little dinar they would have a document from the UST as proof... I am sure they have direct access to Information specialists at the US Embasy in iraq with clear interpretations from the CBI/MOF press releases ...A LOT better than the ones we read. They stated that the CBI intends to RD in the future. Which we have heard... No statement the the Dinar would or would not RV. But the defendants may have induced sales by stating that there would be an RV to produce guaranteed profit. That is fraud even for consenting adults ....I am certain they have depositions and documents from disgruntaled customers as backup when they go to trial, if that is necessary...Lets see how the other dealers react.

There is a statement they wont rv. thats what the prosecutor means by rd. only in dinarland has a rd meant a massive rv. when they say rd.....they mean the currency is going be replaced and demonitized.....that fact it wont rv.......is already given by that statement.

Edited by sandstorm
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US Treasury has very little dinar in reserves (only enough to cover some basic expenses)

The US Executive Order protects DFI stuff and NOT our right to invest

The Dinar will RD after which is will likely be exchanged at the rate of 1:17

This is my two cents, these charges have nothing, nothing to do with the validity of the dinar, its about three guys who are charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and wire fraud, money laundering, and willful failure to file currency and transaction reports. Thats it. As to the response the US treasury has very little dinar in reserves, my question is how much is a little by their standards. I am sure there is more than each of us have in our shoe boxes. I have read responses by Senators who claim they have none. So who knows.

The DFI fund, the DFI fund has been audited many times, the biggest problem with it is it lacks transparency. That in itself leaves many questions as to how it is used and what exactly is in it.

My link

The dinar will RD after which will be exchanged at the rate of 1.17. If they put the dinar on a managed float for instance, technically it would not be an RV, it would crawl up the ladder of 1.17. I personally believe this is what will happen. CBI has said as much. Once it gets to the level and if they have not killed the zero's by the time it gets there, it would be reasonable to believe this is when they bring in the new dinar without zero's. Now for me this road is a much better route. In that process, selling bonds and gold is part of the vehicles to get them there. But as we all know a straight RD can happen.

Another thing to consider, their opinion on RD was written in context to what CBI has spouted over and over. Much has changed, for one the CBI has been put on hold as to the RD, they are struggling with dollarization, counterfeiting and inflation hanging over their head. In my opinion the landscape has changed and so the course may also have to change. We will see.

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The endictment acknowledges the US Treasury does have Dinar on hand for Basic expenses. I personally don't care how much because their interpretation of enough Dinar could be different than mine. The cat is out of the bag, the fact that our Gov't has Dinar....IMO......

Thanks also for your comments Adam

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The endictment acknowledges the US Treasury does have Dinar on hand for Basic expenses. I personally don't care how much because their interpretation of enough Dinar could be different than mine. The cat is out of the bag, the fact that our Gov't has Dinar....IMO......

Thanks also for your comments Adam

Yes, the fact they finally admit it.

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The endictment acknowledges the US Treasury does have Dinar on hand for Basic expenses. I personally don't care how much because their interpretation of enough Dinar could be different than mine. The cat is out of the bag, the fact that our Gov't has Dinar....IMO......

Thanks also for your comments Adam

They are NOT the only one that has lots of Dinar China is also a big holder of dinar but you didnt here that from melaugh.gif

Edited by easyrider
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US Treasury has very little dinar in reserves (only enough to cover some basic expenses)

The US Executive Order protects DFI stuff and NOT our right to invest

The Dinar will RD after which is will likely be exchanged at the rate of 1:17

This is my two cents, these charges have nothing, nothing to do with the validity of the dinar, its about three guys who are charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and wire fraud, money laundering, and willful failure to file currency and transaction reports. Thats it. As to the response the US treasury has very little dinar in reserves, my question is how much is a little by their standards. I am sure there is more than each of us have in our shoe boxes. I have read responses by Senators who claim they have none. So who knows.

The DFI fund, the DFI fund has been audited many times, the biggest problem with it is it lacks transparency. That in itself leaves many questions as to how it is used and what exactly is in it.

My link

The dinar will RD after which will be exchanged at the rate of 1.17. If they put the dinar on a managed float for instance, technically it would not be an RV, it would crawl up the ladder of 1.17. I personally believe this is what will happen. CBI has said as much. Once it gets to the level and if they have not killed the zero's by the time it gets there, it would be reasonable to believe this is when they bring in the new dinar without zero's. Now for me this road is a much better route. In that process, selling bonds and gold is part of the vehicles to get them there. But as we all know a straight RD can happen.

Another thing to consider, their opinion on RD was written in context to what CBI has spouted over and over. Much has changed, for one the CBI has been put on hold as to the RD, they are struggling with dollarization, counterfeiting and inflation hanging over their head. In my opinion the landscape has changed and so the course may also have to change. We will see.

imo...whether the us gov holds dinar or not is irrelevent. because if we hold it......thusly they will hold it...if we cash out. so thats a moot point.

we dont know how much the landscape has changed. for all we know....this floating rate talk could be the new dinar that replaces the current iqd. we just dont know enough to say either way. all we can do is be real about the situation....and hope for the best

Edited by sandstorm
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Yes, the fact they finally admit it.

Well the fact that there is some Dinar for basic expenses was never in question as indicated in the link I provided earlier, however, there is only a grand total as of July 2012 of 262 Billion in currency for all of the currencies of Oil Exporting nations combined. This includes Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon, Libya, and Nigeria currencies combined total.

The indictments also clearly state that they have been indicted for crimes they committed in providing false information regarding their backgrounds and facts regarding this investment, in addition to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and wire fraud, money laundering, and willful failure to file currency and transaction reports as you mentioned in your earlier post. It is important that we not overlook that crime so that we can all better educate ourselves as to who out there we can trust in this investment for information, and who we cannot....

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Well the fact that there is some Dinar for basic expenses was never in question as indicated in the link I provided earlier, however, there is only a grand total as of July 2012 of 262 Billion in currency for all of the currencies of Oil Exporting nations combined. This includes Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon, Libya, and Nigeria currencies combined total.

The indictments also clearly state that they have been indicted for crimes they committed in providing false information regarding their backgrounds and facts regarding this investment, in addition to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and wire fraud, money laundering, and willful failure to file currency and transaction reports as you mentioned in your earlier post. It is important that we not overlook that crime so that we can all better educate ourselves as to who out there we can trust in this investment for information, and who we cannot....

Hey JayP good to see you. Overall this is what to pay attention to, the boys in the dark alley with a dinar deal or any sweet deal you can't refuse. Run!

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http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

In this link you can see that there is obviously no "Trillions" of dinars that are in the US Treasury's foreign holdings. The indictment states that this was a lie that was being told to investors in order to persuade them to buy products from them based on false pretenses, hence the charges of fraudulent schemes and artifices..

THis is a list of what apears to be tradeable currency. Since the dinar is not a tradeable currency of course it would not appear on this list. I dont know if UST has Trillions of dinar or not. My point was simply I am curious as to how they are going to prove UST does or doesnt have dinar... Be very interesting to see this done to say the least..

Just because the dinar doesnt appear on a tradealbe list doesnt mean UST has this currency in reserve. ALso if you noticed other post did show the UST has enough dinar to cover exspences. What exspeneces are they covering? Since the Dinar is worth 1170 to 1 usd I am sure trillions is not unrealistic.. Going to be fun to find out just what they have and dont have...

I am not trying to be a legal analyst this is my thought proces and I am interested in learning what is going on so in the future I know what red flags to look for to better protect myself from scam artisits like this.

It is like the sabotage of the Iran nuke site... How do suppose that is happening Computer Virus key scientist killed, power stations blown up.. I am sure the US government or Isreal can neither confirm or deny it right... Just like people can prove the UST has or has not got trillions of dinar... It would make sense though since the USD in the tradeable currency in Iraq and they had to buy the USD with something or did we just give them all that cash for free??

Edited by steveinfla
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