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BH Group indicted


Rayzur
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Pres. Bush may not have made the statement but those close to him did.

One month before the war, then-White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said Iraq “is a rather wealthy country. … And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction.”
Days after the U.S. invasion, then-Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told a congressional panel that Iraqi oil revenues would help pay for reconstructing the country, i.e. a cost of the war. “The oil revenue of that country could bring between 50 and 100 billion dollars over the course of the next two or three years. We’re dealing with a country that could really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon,” he said.

My link

Would the war be cheap and would Iraq pay for it?

The projections: Ahead of and shortly after the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, a number of officials, including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy Paul Wolfowitz suggested the war could be done on the cheap and that it would largely pay for itself. In October 2003, Rumsfeld told a press conference about President Bush's request for $21 billion for Iraq and Afghan reconstruction that "the $20 billion the president requested is not intended to cover all of Iraq's needs. The bulk of the funds for Iraq's reconstruction will come from Iraqis -- from oil revenues, recovered assets, international trade, direct foreign investment, as well as some contributions we've already received and hope to receive from the international community." In March 2003, Mr. Wolfowitz told Congress that "we're really dealing with a country that could finance its own reconstruction." In April 2003, the Pentagon said the war would cost about $2 billion a month, and in July of that year Rumsfeld increased that estimate to $4 billion.

My link

So it does not matter if the Pres said it, it was conveyed to the American public, the oil revenues would pay the bill. These men who stated this as we all know, pretty much ran the show.

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Pres. Bush may not have made the statement but those close to him did.

My link

My link

So it does not matter if the Pres said it, it was conveyed to the American public, the oil revenues would pay the bill. These men who stated this as we all know, pretty much ran the show.

They said iraq has the ability to pay for reconstruction because of their 50-100billion in oil revenues. the administration was trying to sell the war. there is no mention that the u.s. will be repaid.........just that iraq has the ability to pay too....which will offset the cost.

imo....thats not enough to justify the logic

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I don't think they even alluded to that - there is nothing illegal about holding Iraqi Dinar, there is nothing wrong with buying or selling Iraqi Dinar, etc.

There are a few things that won't stick in the indictment, but they really screwed up with the money laundering and intentional failure to file on those money transfers... how they thought they would get away with that is beyond my comprehension!

Adam, thanks for staying on top of this. :twothumbs:

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i'm sure it is already understood by everyone at this late hour but i still wanted to chime in and help those who are not accustomed to court documents since i have spent considerable time scratching the surface of the subject. the initial portions of the document being quoted in this thread has NOTHING to do with whether or not the IQD will or will not actually revalue. the lawyer has to build a case and in doing so she has to provide for the judge definitions of everything being brought up in her argument. thus she defines for the court what an RV is and what a RD is. she even has to define who the defendants are and what their standing is in the community. this is called building a case. this is before the CLAIM.

the CLAIM starts out accusing these men of conspiracy of fraud and the main case against them is the point of the hedge funds that never existed. Adam made this very clear in his response to the post. up until the point that i stopped reading, the lawyer never prognosticated on the future of the IQD. that is not the point of the claim. the point of the claim is to establish conspiracy against the american people. to do that they establish the hedge fund fraud and build around it the conspiracy (ie. conference calls, wires, misinformation, deception, lies to build trust, etc etc etc.)

really there is nothing to see here for us savvy dinar investors who already know not to give our money away to numbskulls. if anyone is stopping here to prove either an RV theory or an RD theory, you will want to look further. this case will not conclude either for you.

my 2c

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Just curious as to how Ali might fit into all of this. I remember him being on Fox news but can't remember exactly what his position was or what he said in regards to this being a sound investment. Anyone remember?

You can bet that when Brad and his cohorts get questioned on their relationship with Ali and DT they are going to spill the beans about Ali paying them commissions for their pumping and lies. Ali will be thrown under the bus maybe for bargaining power for lesser prison time.

Edited by buckeye88us
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i'm sure it is already understood by everyone at this late hour but i still wanted to chime in and help those who are not accustomed to court documents since i have spent considerable time scratching the surface of the subject. the initial portions of the document being quoted in this thread has NOTHING to do with whether or not the IQD will or will not actually revalue. the lawyer has to build a case and in doing so she has to provide for the judge definitions of everything being brought up in her argument. thus she defines for the court what an RV is and what a RD is. she even has to define who the defendants are and what their standing is in the community. this is called building a case. this is before the CLAIM.

the CLAIM starts out accusing these men of conspiracy of fraud and the main case against them is the point of the hedge funds that never existed. Adam made this very clear in his response to the post. up until the point that i stopped reading, the lawyer never prognosticated on the future of the IQD. that is not the point of the claim. the point of the claim is to establish conspiracy against the american people. to do that they establish the hedge fund fraud and build around it the conspiracy (ie. conference calls, wires, misinformation, deception, lies to build trust, etc etc etc.)

really there is nothing to see here for us savvy dinar investors who already know not to give our money away to numbskulls. if anyone is stopping here to prove either an RV theory or an RD theory, you will want to look further. this case will not conclude either for you.

10-4 Trinity.....move along people.....comforters on sale on isle 8.

my 2c

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There is no more reason to wonder what is true (about some major points) and what will happen with the Dinar. The US government spells it out very clearly:

Rayzur i completely and 100%, with great respect, disagree with your statement here. (i posted above but felt compelled to address this directly) the attorney defines for the court definitions and allegations of the defendant. you see court is nothing more than a battle between to entities arguing/debating in adversarial positions opposite one another about a matter of inequality. the court is neutral and starts out ignorant of the issue. the court listens to both sides and draws a conclusion to bring the two sides back into harmony because the commercial world can only exist in an harmonious state. the court however CANNOT surmise or presume to know the case before it is argued. therefore attorneys must ESTABLISH the framework of the case before presenting their claim or counter claim. within that framework are definitions and certain understandings without which a court will be left ignorant from which to rule.

notice the very first sentence reads: "At all time relevant to this Indictment:"

this is the preamble where definitions and allegations given defining the defendants and who they are (their status in society), what an RD is, what an RV is, and what it is that the defendants alleged. these must be defined first as they will be repeatedly mentioned throughout the claim. the court has to be instructed what they are in order to hear any argument including them.

for instance if you presented me a term paper on your "sweet babboo and its twinkee twinkee", and i am reading your paper and you keep mentioning these in the paper but you never define for me what they are, i will have no clue what you are trying to convey to me. the same with any court. all things must be defined for the court.

this WAS NOT a prognostication of "what will happen with the Dinar." not in the slightest at all. people really need to digest this so that their fears are calmed. the only reason i am doing this is because i know that some people are not familiar with court documents.

also please note the crafty words used by the attorney concerning the united states involvement in the iraqi dinar. "Alleging the Department of the Treasury held trillions of Iraqi dinar for investment purposes." yeah, these guys are in deep trouble because if they cannot prove their allegation that the united states are holding dinar specifically for investment purposes, and people trusted that they were telling the truth, then their already sunk ship will sink that much faster. the attorney are using their own words against them knowing that these numbskulls cannot pull up one federal document backing their point that for investment purposes the feds are holding dinar.

again though, this is not about the credibility of the dinar and its potential to RD or RV. i truly hoping people are getting this.

This is Much more than mere opinion or editorial commentary. It is the factual statements asserted by the US government as its foundation upon which to ask the grand jury to send to trial these gurus in order to prosecute them for the host of charges alleged. This is not smoke or mirrors, nor is it the opinion of another guru. It is the evidentary facts asserting a criminal case against guru conspirators.

... be careful. i really couldn't care less about this numbskulls but we must keep things in proper perspective. this is an indictment and nothing more. until a judge rules, we do not know what the "truth" is. because a claim is presented does not necessarily mean that a prosecutor can PROVE their CLAIM. i recommend walking a little softly here.

however i will say that this conspiracy is not about the dinar. it is about the hedge fund. everyone reading this must realize that this case is not about prosecuting because it is alleged that the IQD will revalue. it is pure speculation the future of the IQD and no court can presently rule on its obscure future. this court case is solely about defrauding the american citizen with illegal uses of regulated hedge fund activity. to inject anything more than this, from this case, is entirely misleading whether voluntarily or involuntarily.

In turn I would love to hear the opinions of my DV colleagues regarding this indictment and the contrarty legal opinion about the Executive Order "protecting our right to invest" in contrast to what many of us understood differently (and this time, articulated by actual federal attorneys).

i have never read any executive order on the dinar but i can say this. the united states has stated that the american investor should get special favor when investing in iraq. this is a direct quote from the strategic framework agreement:

5. Facilitating and encouraging the flow of foreign investments to Iraq,
especially American
investments
, to contribute to the reconstruction and rebuilding of Iraq.

Read more:

so there are provisions by our government encouraging american investment into the country of iraq.

Rayzur i am not busting your chops. i consider you my friend and i am not eager to form enemies at all. so know that i am not attacking you at all. i am just offering a polarized position against "your post" but not you my dv friend. if you feel that i am wrong in my assumption, please respond in kind and i will hear your point of view in earnest.

be blessed my friends.

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Apologies to those who already read the previous "Freak Out" post. Apparently that post title wasn't catchy enough and if I could figure out how to put neon on it.... I would...

There is no more reason to wonder what is true (about some major points) and what will happen with the Dinar. The US government spells it out very clearly:

US Treasury has very little dinar in reserves (only enough to cover some basic expenses)

The US Executive Order protects DFI stuff and NOT our right to invest

The Dinar will RD after which is will likely be exchanged at the rate of 1:17

This is the opinion of FEDERAL prosecutors, who studied the laws involved, has access to the UST stats (as the rep of the UST), as well as all federal government sites and information regarding the dinar (from the US perspective and reading of laws and statute agreements with Iraq.

This is Much more than mere opinion or editorial commentary. It is the factual statements asserted by the US government as its foundation upon which to ask the grand jury to send to trial these gurus in order to prosecute them for the host of charges alleged. This is not smoke or mirrors, nor is it the opinion of another guru. It is the evidentary facts asserting a criminal case against guru conspirators.

It can't be over stated how important it is to read this link. In turn I would love to hear the opinions of my DV colleagues regarding this indictment and the contrarty legal opinion about the Executive Order "protecting our right to invest" in contrast to what many of us understood differently (and this time, articulated by actual federal attorneys).

This will be critical for all of us to watch as it progresses. If this is moved to trial by the Grand Jury, then the assertions of the federal government have enough validity to be considered truth. We won't have to watch the news,. we can watch this trial and we'll know exactly what to expect regarding the dinar and its eventual exchange....

Interested to hear your feedback after you read the charges... and sorry I cant cut and paste the document in here,..... as is typical with most recorded Court documents in my experience.... you can't copy and paste them as protection for government e filing, which therein prevents them from being edited and re published as official... (yes probably ways around that, I just dont want to go to the energy it would take to do so)

Thanks to my DV buds here for your thoughts on this...

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wtvg/docs/120920_BHgroup.pdf

Its funny that I said a year ago that Rudy was a scam artist. I researched that man up one side and down the other. And the sad thing was nobody listened all the Rudy lovers came out of the closet to have a wack at me. Well now the only thing I have to say is Eat My Shorts lol

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Most of this is just like what we have seen for years, whereby people’s monies were taken and no dinar was delivered, also, you cannot deal in hedge funds without the SEC/Securities and Exchange Commissions approval and licensing, (from what I understand)….also, if selling dinars, some states have laws requiring seperate filings for doing business, and/or soliciting in their states…I’m sure there are other rules, regulations and laws, but predominently…all of this is from defrauding people…and/or telling them lies to get them into something…the best motto for any speculative investment is always: “Don’t buy more than you can afford to lose”…”It is a high risk investment”….”It could flop tomorrow”…as we all know that anything and everything can go up or down, and for the most part, all investments have risk…period!

P.S. I know, and have friends that know, and/or, are kin to, several federal agents, hi-ranking military personnel, politicians, and many high-up bankers…who have bought dinars at banks and from dealers, and as long as they say it’s not a scam…primarily due to the banks being involved, if they’re not worried…I’m not!…I would be worried if I was defrauded or had bought into something that had actually took my money on false prestenses or never produced the goods, whether it be dinars…or a pair of shoes at the shoe store on the corner that I ordered shoes from, that never arrived!…There will always be crooks in everything!…

On another note, Scams will continue to happen, in every sector of financials of society…but what’s funny here, is if “someone” does “soemthing crazy” with dinars…some folks try and make it look like the “entire investment” is a “fraud”, because of a “few” rotten apples…like I said, until the final bell is rung as per this investment finalizing…whether Iraq flops’ or pops’, with it’s currency’…all the dumpers and naysayers, and any others of those that dont believe in this…dont have to partake in this investment…as most of us watch what Iraq is actually doing monetarily…not at what people are saying, which includes the above mentioned…It’s as simple as “Follow the Money”…

P.S. If a banker steals money at a branch of a bank that you use, do you go close your account as per the entire bank being bad?…Does this not happen everyday?…Why would the dinar be any different, as per folks using it in the wrong way from time to time?…Why do the news articles even out of Iraq, over the years, show where millions of dollars worth of dinars were being smuggled across the borders, is this supposed to scare us?…Do not US Dollars have issues everyday, and even worldwide?…WOW!..Some are just geniuses, at NOT figuring this out!…lol…

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Trinity.... I totally respect your opinion and perspective... and no worries at all about disagreeing. I disagreed with myself right after I posted this Thursday evening, and then the site went down and I couldn't correct it. Your points are well taken... and I did get very heavy handed in stating absolutes that were/are not. Indeed, I think we came to the same understanding... I just couldnt get back in there Thursday, and put it into better perspective.... and was gone for 24 hours after that at the fort, which I still call base, and just got back. (caveat being when I said it was 'fact', in that one area, I did not state well that I was saying, this is not a banter of opinions from blog members, but allegations based upon evidentary findings reviewed by grand jury... was trying to seperate the smoke and mirrors simplicity, from an actual due process evidentary hearing... )

That said...

What I would say in response in general...

I’m surprised so few picked up on an important nuance. This document is an indictment. It means these accusations are now more than just the opinion of the US attorney. It means that a jury of 16 to 23 people found there was enough evidence to indict these guys.

I’ll try to make this short, been a long day and my brain is tired so will try to break it into

two broad aspects: 1) what is factually happening 2) What I think it means (opinion which is not fact)

FACT:

Caveat first: I’m not an attorney and I don’t play one on TV. This is not meant to be specific exacting, citation or detail, and I offer this merely as a general overview. (where are the freakin attorneys on this site…. lol). I am not pleading herein, so don’t shoot me ☺

The Fifth Amendment, directs that the federal legal system has to use grand juries to bring charges, for pertinent offenses; all capital and "infamous" crimes must be brought by an indictment returned by a grand jury. So a complaint is filed and then, a federal grand jury, (16 to 23 ordinary citizens), secretly reviews evidence presented by the federal prosecutor, (U.S. Attorney). This review determines whether the case is strong enough to proceed. Specifically, the jury is charged with determining whether enough evidence exists to charge a suspect(s) with a criminal offense. If the grand jury finds there is sufficient evidence for a trial, that the act was a crime under law, and that the court had jurisdiction, it returns a federal indictment and the defendant faces further criminal proceedings. If the grand jury determines the prosecutor’s evidence to be insufficient, it returns "no bill," and the federal charge or charges are dismissed. (No bill" is a legal term that indicates that a grand jury has decided that there is not enough evidence to place a criminal suspect on trial in court).

In short and quoting the Federal Judicial System: “A criminal case formally begins with an indictment or information, which is a formal accusation that a person committed a crime. An indictment may be obtained when the executive branch of the U.S. government--the U.S. attorney or an assistant U.S. attorney, also referred to as the prosecutor--presents evidence to a federal grand jury that, according to the government, indicates a person committed a crime. The U.S. attorney tries to convince the grand jury that there is enough evidence to show that the person probably committed the crime and should be formally accused of it. If the grand jury agrees, it issues an indictment. After the indictment is issued, the accused person (the defendant) is either summoned to court or arrested (if not already under arrest), depending on the severity of the crime.”

A grand jury is different from a trial jury, or petit jury. A grand jury determines whether the person may be tried for a crime; a petit jury listens to the evidence presented at the trial and determines whether the defendant is guilty of the charge.

As I stated before, in the federal system, grand juries hear testimony from federal agents (FBI, DEA, BATF, IRS). Grand juries use subpoenas to gather the evidence used in deciding whether crimes have been committed. They can subpoena documents and physical evidence (including videotapes, internet records, calls, etc.) as well as witnesses to provide testimony. Anyone wondering if these guys have intel we on the blogs do not… please stop wondering. They do.

Quasi opinion:

And maybe stop quibbling about how much the UST holds in reserve. The point is that these guys made a claim that is not in any way documented as to the amount, be it large or small. They lied about the number of dinar as being a known fact. This has nothing to do with how many are or are not in reserve, and as many have pointed out, a “little” is relative (could be 50 trillion, could be 2 trillion or 10 dinar.. point is, we don’t know). Again, the point of this allegation is that the gurus stated the amount was a known fact.

Opinion:

Apart from the SEC stuff..... which seems to be a no brainer...

IMHO

The US Attorney, was able to convince 16-23 people that the evidence was such that it supported all the charges stated in the indictment. This should indicate to you that these charges no longer just represent the opinions of the US prosecutor. The evidence was compelling enough for an indictment.

This indictment has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the purchase or ownership of dinar is somehow a “scam”, illegal, or is in itself a criminal platform.

This indictment does not “prove” by way of allegation there will or will not be an RV, an RD, an RB or a white Christmas.

This indictment basically says these gurus lied across a matrix of variables, which when taken together, compelled people who would not otherwise do so, but for these lies, to invest money in a currency for implied profit (anything greater than neutral event).

What I wrongly stated was that the indictment clearly stated what was going to happen with the dinar. (there ya go Trinity :) )

What I should have said was : this indictment is a legal interpretation by the US government as to what the Executive Order states, and more important, what the Iraqi Government states will happen regarding their currency as it is published by them, and at this time. which is in contrast to what the gurus stated.

Insofar as the USG alleges that Iraq clearly states what will happen with their currency at this time and the time of the indictment, may or may not have anything whatsoever to do with what Iraq eventually does with their currency.

They could decide to RV then RD, … RD then RV, RB in country, RV out of country or go dashing through the snow in a one horse open sleigh. This indictment doesn't really care about what happens in the future.

The analysis of my colleagues of the actual indictment, suggests an interesting approach:

The SEC violations are a no brainer. Rudy’s false military claims, if false are a no brainer.

Then we get into the gushy stuff:

The USG is accurate in asserting that the Iraqi Government (IG) stated clearly what will happen with their currency, as formally published or stated on IG sites.

(NOTE: this is not an argument as to whether or not what the IG states is or is not true!).

The USG is accurate in stating that the gurus knowingly stated something contrary to what the IG stated.

What the USG will have to now prove in a court of law, is that the gurus knew they were stating information they knew to be contrary to the statements of the IG and that these statements were made in order to engage... and profit (and oh by the way, not give the government a share of those profits).

Apart from the SEC / hedge fund stuff, it looks like the US Attorney is going to give a shot at bringing to trial numerous other aspects in the 6th Circuit, Northern district, Ohio Court, and those are the charges that some gurus may have to be concerned about in terms of: their affiliations (direct or indirect profit); charges for and statement/implication of services; background expertise, experience, or knowledge, etc etc etc, …. all or part of which,when taken together led individuals to assume a level of confidence, such that they invested monies not otherwise likely to be invested, but for this confidence.

It will be interesting to see which charges stand with a return verdict of guilty, which will be dropped, reduced or pled out, as this progresses. It is likely that this is a test case scenario, with the 6th Circuit being a good playing field in which to play this out. The nature, number, etc of the verdicts returned will more than likely determine the next steps in terms of further indictments in this and other Circuits, regarding some of our beloved gurus. This is so far from being over, and if it plays out, could take the rest of this decade before it clears the District and Circuit Courts.

And again, has nothing to do with what Iraq may or may not decide to do with their currency in the future, from this moment forward, in their final decision(s) as to how they will proceed.

Hope that makes sense. Its late, and my brain went in search of sleep about an hour ago…

Blessings to all ~~

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Guru's depend on their marks having a basic distrust of government and authority to ply their trade. They insist that the primary sources, in this case the GOI and UST, are lying but their "secret" or "intel" sources are telling the truth. Many people are willing to accept the truthfulness of this "secret intel" over the truthfulness of the primary sources when, in fact, even if you believe the governments are lying, there is no more basis to trust one than the other. Gurus who are not selling or shilling for some dealer, can, of course, say anything they want. That's freedom of speech. But if you are selling something, the claims you make in relation to it are a legal issue.

Scammers often appear to be getting away with their scams because it takes sometimes several years to build a case against them. Ultimately, though, there is the inevitable perp walk like we've seen here.

Edited by RVPleaseToday
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Its funny that I said a year ago that Rudy was a scam artist. I researched that man up one side and down the other. And the sad thing was nobody listened all the Rudy lovers came out of the closet to have a wack at me. Well now the only thing I have to say is Eat My Shorts lol

Wait until Breitling is in the crosshairs.

He has so many recorded presentations available for evidence, and said many of the same things.

Luckily, no hedge funds.

If he is prosecuted, whoever posts that account will see lots of little red bombs.

I hope you're not implying that you actually believe everything the government tells you. :lol:

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

Sometimes you just have to sort it all out for yourself.

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Adam, I qualified with statement with "even if you believe the government is lying to you."

Even if the governments are lying to you, the Guru's "secret intel" has no more credibility. If you will not believe the GOI's and UST's stories, why would you believe the guru's "secret intel?"

And, if you can believe neither, where does that leave you?

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Adam, I qualified with statement with "even if you believe the government is lying to you."

Even if the governments are lying to you, the Guru's "secret intel" has no more credibility. If you will not believe the GOI's and UST's stories, why would you believe the guru's "secret intel?"

And, if you can believe neither, where does that leave you?

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. I put as much faith in "secret intel" as I do "Hope and Change". My opinion is that neither the government nor the gurus are of much value to us. When the dinar goes up and we can cash in, great! If it goes down and we move on - well, we always knew it was a possibility. :twocents:

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Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. I put as much faith in "secret intel" as I do "Hope and Change". My opinion is that neither the government nor the gurus are of much value to us. When the dinar goes up and we can cash in, great! If it goes down and we move on - well, we always knew it was a possibility. :twocents:

This is a very level headed approach, and maintains an upbeat frame of mind.

What the "Smoke and Mirrors" crowd always fails to factor in is that if the CBI is misleading both Creditors and Investors, the future of Iraq will be lacking in folks willing to lend or invest when the truth is revealed . (this is the "you lie, we're screwed, you lose" corollary of investment consideration). While the pullout of some investors from Iraq may indicate a certain fear this is ongoing, Iraq will not exit third world status if it is proven to be true.

The concept of investor in the above thought process, does not include currency speculators, which seem to be the main proponents of the "Smoke and Mirrors" interpretation of the figures the CBI is providing to the world of future investors and creditors.

This round of indictments will certainly shake out either the belief that Iraq is lying, or that Iraq is telling the truth, and the effects of both on the legal professions to profit from either.

Do I trust the government or legal profession to be completely honest? NO. Past history telegraphs future performance.

That said, the Gurus and Pumpers are really trying to compete for the least molecule of truth present in any statement. And they have really stressed the concept that there is always an element of truth in every lie or rumor.

At least the legal system has past precident to go from; whether it s good or bad precident.

The gurus are making things up as they go, and have all the integrity and sincerety of a _____________ (fill in your favorite derogatory term or word with the most negative connotation here). .

History will be the decision maker here.

Like you, I remain hopeful.

But, I fear that the CBI financials are necessarily accurate, as Iraq's future hangs in that balance.

That said, the future currency reform, while producing the potential for profit, may be fractional in relationship to the Gurus projections.

We have the ultimate scratch off lottery ticket. We have the anticipation every day that it will hit big, and we can still return it for a refund ( minus re-stocking fees) whenever we tire of the process.

I can live with that :)

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Quote:

" we can still return it for a refund......."

Unquote:

******I've got my pessimist hat on.

Suppose the CBI RDs in January as it stated that is wants to do.

The sales of "old " dinar dry up. Foolish to collect it anymore. Those dealers still in busines will increase the "restocking fee"

Small dealers wont have enough dollars to stay in business. They're GONE.

Facing the pending demonitization , forced to sell at any price!

Depending on how the IRS treats in the best you have is a potential tax write-off.

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We have the ultimate scratch off lottery ticket. We have the anticipation every day that it will hit big, and we can still return it for a refund ( minus re-stocking fees) whenever we tire of the process.

Read more:

Dalite I agree with most everything you had to say except for the "refund" part. I would love to get a refund but the place I bought mine from only offers exchanges or buy backs @$840 per million. I didn't get in until 2010 so if I sell right now I'm just at a loss. :(

What's really funny is if you go back and read some of the early 2010 posts on here the main topic of discussion was "where to cash in" or "ali vs bank" for cash in. Ali had plenty of emails reposted on here instructing you on the necessary paper work to bring, the forms that would need to be completed and the locations of his offices and the secret locations that would open as soon as the RV hit. Now, if I want to sell them back, I just simply have to complete his simple online form and mail them back! LOL, 2010 was a lot more fun than 2012 is turning out to be for those who are holding!

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IMO...I think that if some believe in this, then they may wish to hang onto their dinars, as "this ride simply aint over till it's over", and if some hate it, maybe they should sell out', or never get in'...but, from what I have seen, and from the many investments that were originally condoned as safe, sound, bullet proof, solid, etc...(even pumped up by the establishment, media, etc...in many instances)...but, they Flopped!..whether it was Bear Stearns, Leahman Brothers, Worldcom, Enron...and others!...What I'm trying to say, is were some of those possibly good investments at one time or another, as some companies that have failed, were very old established firms, and/or at one time or another, did'nt some prosper in some of them...at least until some of those in control of, or behind the investments, scammed the people?...In another perspective, QE-3 just came out...should I possibly hold more dollars instead...and wait to see where that get's me?...decisions, decisions...lol....

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