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Do you need to give social security number for small dinar purchases? ie just a couple hundred dollars?


rulesforrebels
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Are there new rules that any Dinar transaction requires your social security number?

There was recently a post about lifesonggroup which I believe there site is dealorbuydinar. I tried to comment on it but it was a locked thread. Anyhow, a friend of mine recently tried to order and they are insisting on taking social security numbes on all transactions even small amounts.

I don't really know much about all these banking rules and banking secrecy and patriot act and all this nonsense but just doing quick google searches seems to say under $1,000 they shouldn't need this information and some dealers seem to not need it unless your purchase gets up to several thousand dollars.

They sent my friend a long email about the reason they need it their regulators insist on it, etc, etc, etc however from everything I've googled it doesn't seem to be a requiement and kind of bothers me they say its a legal requirement if its not. I really don't like giving out my social unless its absolutely necessary and especially not via email or hte internet to a small company who I know nothing about their record keeping how they keep their files locked up, how secure their computers are etc.

Anyhow, main point being is there new rules and do other dealers require this or was this just a fluke?

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It's not a requirement.

Don't give out your SSN to anyone.

That's what I thought. This is what lifesong sent to my friend. I higlighted the part where they say they need your tax id number aka your social. From just some quick google searches it doesn't appear this is a requirement for say a purchase of $200 however they are requireing it and saying that its required by law which doesn't seem to be true which kind of bothers me. Makes me even more hesitant for me to give my socail which i probably wouldn't have anyway. I've never really shied away from ebay like some people but just thought I'd give a dealer a try on a smaller scale before I bought any more dinar. Looks like I'll be going back to ebay where I can pay with paypal and nobody insists on me giving my social under the guise of it being required by law

Why do you ask for the Name, Physical address, DOB and Federal Tax ID/SS#?

In order to comply with Federal laws, including the Anti-Money Laundering Policy (AML), The Patriot Act, and the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA), Lifesong Development Group, LLC is required to ask for identification from our customers. This is part of our Anti-Money Laundering program which we are required to maintain. These laws require us to ask for a name, physical address, DOB and Federal Tax ID (also know as your social security number, EIN or taxpayer identification number.)

Your information is totally secured and fully protected. We do not release any information to anyone outside of government regulators who periodically review our books in order to confirm that we are complying with the law. As a money service business (MSB) registered with the U.S. Department of the Treasury, Lifesong Development Group, LLC is subject to a periodic reviews by the U.S. Department of Treasury to ensure that we are properly identifying our customers and complying with the all laws governing banks, MSB's and other financial institutions. For verification of these requirements for Lifesong Development Group, LLC and other financial institutions please review the information below. Links have been provided to the third party sources.

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I purchased my Dinar (a couple of thousand USD) from a different dealer. They did not require my SSN. I would have shopped elsewhere if they had. Protect what is yours. I would suggest using a different place to purchase you dinar.

I hate giving out my social as much as anyone else but for several thousand dollars I belive it really is a legal requirement so I'd either bite the bullet and provide it or buy in smaller amounts, however for someone to try to insinuate its a legal requirement on a $150 order when it clearly is not really bothers me if that is the case.

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All I can tell you is that I didn't provide the SSN. The place I purchased has a favorable BBB standing, and sent a certificate of authencity with my purchase. Maybe they overlooked the SSN requirement, I don't know. I am justing saying to be very cautious where, and with whom you buy dinar. This is already a bumpy ride for investors. Too many articles about scammers selling dinar. Just be careful. :)

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All I can tell you is that I didn't provide the SSN. The place I purchased has a favorable BBB standing, and sent a certificate of authencity with my purchase. Maybe they overlooked the SSN requirement, I don't know. I am justing saying to be very cautious where, and with whom you buy dinar. This is already a bumpy ride for investors. Too many articles about scammers selling dinar. Just be careful. :)

thanks for the info and insight austinmom. yeah i wasn't commenting on you at all, your just buying its their responsibility to do whatever recordkeeping they have to do if they dont ask for info they need thats their problem not yours. you bring up good points. in the past id bought most of mine off ebay and never had a bad experience until recently some guy sold me circulated notes he i knew they were circulated but he had a vague description. i got them and had pen marks and coffee stains. complained to him and ebay that something in that poor condition warranted more detail than just circulated but in good condition.

i like the ebay paypal buyer protection. i basically had an option of getting a refund or keeping the notes and getting a partial refund. i opted for partial refund and actually wound up with a really good deal. ill continue to buy on ebay but i guess now i know there can be bumps.

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Anyhow, main point being is there new rules and do other dealers require this or was this just a fluke?

Its not really a queston of whether or not its a fluke... if you are asking if all dealers require this. The answer is NO they do not. These rules are NOT those of the government, but are those of this particular vendor. I would find a different vendor. I would also wonder why they would want my SSN. There is no reason at all for them to have it (unless they are going to report the sale to you in some way that offsets, any profit or monetary benefit to them. Having your SSN is only a benefit to them.

Giving your SSN to anyone can land you so far sideways it would take you years to dig out. Don't do it, don't think you have to, don't believe they are the only game in town, and don't sweat it that you might be losing out on something...

What you will lose by giving it out is a much greater risk, than moving on to another vendor. ;)

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Seems to me people doing this are counting on others lack of knowledge of the law to get access to information that is not theirs to be asking for.I would have asked them to show you the statute just to put them in scrambling mode.Every penny of Dinar I have I have gotten from a currency exchange and walked away with what I paid for owning it fully.I do not do the layaway programs as I prefer to have it physically in hand as I can afford it.This is what I would encourage others to do as well , provided they have a exchange in their area.You may also have family in the area of one that would pick it up for you should you not be close to one.When this puppy blows , physical in hand is what you are Liable to end up with and nothing more. :twocents:

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If you are trying to purchase the IQD under a company name they'd need your taxpayer ID number (sometimes this is a SSN). But to get around that, purchase the IQD in your name (no SSN required) and then gift it to the company.

Gifting a large some of money to any entity in the US will raise a red flag with the IRS. Tax returns have to filed. I plan to pay my capital gains tax and move on.

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When you buy, they already have the address they are shipping it to, which is usually the purchasers, and some require a D.L. as per identifying the buyer and/or in case things dont match the address. IMO..Both buyer and seller need to keep records in case there is a big rise in price on this stuff...as that should'nt be hard to figure out as to why..there could be audits on both ends....Also, how would one prove when they bought it with no proper name and address to no one in particular...as per long or short term capital gains, as there needs to be some type of record for the buyers safety and or proof or where you got this stuff. I would imagine that if anyone went into a bank with something worth maybe in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions of dollars...that they would moreso than not, want to know where you obtained what is being traded in...maybe not, but I would suspect this to be the case..we will see...

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  • 4 months later...

That's what I thought. This is what lifesong sent to my friend. I higlighted the part where they say they need your tax id number aka your social. From just some quick google searches it doesn't appear this is a requirement for say a purchase of $200 however they are requireing it and saying that its required by law which doesn't seem to be true which kind of bothers me. Makes me even more hesitant for me to give my socail which i probably wouldn't have anyway. I've never really shied away from ebay like some people but just thought I'd give a dealer a try on a smaller scale before I bought any more dinar. Looks like I'll be going back to ebay where I can pay with paypal and nobody insists on me giving my social under the guise of it being required by law

Why do you ask for the Name, Physical address, DOB and Federal Tax ID/SS#?

In order to comply with Federal laws, including the Anti-Money Laundering Policy (AML), The Patriot Act, and the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA), Lifesong Development Group, LLC is required to ask for identification from our customers. This is part of our Anti-Money Laundering program which we are required to maintain. These laws require us to ask for a name, physical address, DOB and Federal Tax ID (also know as your social security number, EIN or taxpayer identification number.)

Your information is totally secured and fully protected. We do not release any information to anyone outside of government regulators who periodically review our books in order to confirm that we are complying with the law. As a money service business (MSB) registered with the U.S. Department of the Treasury, Lifesong Development Group, LLC is subject to a periodic reviews by the U.S. Department of Treasury to ensure that we are properly identifying our customers and complying with the all laws governing banks, MSB's and other financial institutions. For verification of these requirements for Lifesong Development Group, LLC and other financial institutions please review the information below. Links have been provided to the third party sources.

It is the law. Anyone can of course still choose to do business with a company that isn't complying with regulations but I've reviewed the information at length and it is indisputably the law. You can review it for yourself below.

Apparently, this company is complying with the law in spite of the fact that many of their competitors do not. My concern is this; if I've done business with a company that isn't complying fully with all the regulations...will that affect my transaction sometime down the road?

Here is the rest of the information posted on their website's FAQ page that lists the third party sources that were not included in the post above.

FAQ

§ 103.37 Additional records to be made and retained by currency dealers or exchangers

(a)(1) After July 7, 1987, each currency dealer or exchanger shall secure and maintain a record of the taxpayer identification number of each person for whom a transaction account is opened or a line of credit is extended within 30 days after such account is opened or credit line extended. Where a person is a non-resident alien, the currency dealer or exchanger shall also record the person’s passport number or a description of some other government document used to verify his identity. Where the account or credit line is in the names of two or more persons, the currency dealer or exchanger shall secure the taxpayer identification number of a person having a financial interest in the account or credit line. In the event that a currency dealer or exchanger has been unable to secure the identification required within the 30-day period specified, it shall nevertheless not be deemed to be in violation of this section if: (i) It has made a reasonable effort to secure such identification(continued here.)

FDIC Law, Regulations, Related Acts

(i) Customer information required–(A) In general. The CIP must contain procedures for opening an account that specify the identifying information that will be obtained from each customer. Except as permitted by paragraphs (a)(2)(i)(B) and © of this section, the bank must obtain, at a minimum, the following information from the customer prior to opening an account:

(1) Name;

(2) Date of birth, for an individual;

(3) Address, which shall be:

(i) For an individual, a residential or business street address;

(ii) For an individual who does not have a residential or business street address, an Army Post Office (APO) or Fleet Post Office (FPO) box number, or the residential or business street address of next of kin or of another contact individual; or

(iii) For a person other than an individual (such as a corporation, partnership, or trust), a principal place of business, local office, or other physical location; and

(4) Identification number, which shall be:

(i) For a U.S. person, a taxpayer identification number; or

(ii) For a non-U.S. person, one or more of the following: A taxpayer identification number; passport number and country of issuance; alien identification card number; or number and country of issuance of any other government-issued document evidencing nationality or residence and bearing a photograph or similar safeguard (continued here.)

Fincen summary of Patriot Act

Section 326: Verification of Identification Prescribes regulations establishing minimum standards for financial institutions and their customers regarding the identity of a customer that shall apply with the opening of an account at the financial institution (continued here.)

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It is the law. Anyone can of course still choose to do business with a company that isn't complying with regulations but I've reviewed the information at length and it is indisputably the law. You can review it for yourself below.

Apparently, this company is complying with the law in spite of the fact that many of their competitors do not. My concern is this; if I've done business with a company that isn't complying fully with all the regulations...will that affect my transaction sometime down the road?

Here is the rest of the information posted on their website's FAQ page that lists the third party sources that were not included in the post above.

FAQ

§ 103.37 Additional records to be made and retained by currency dealers or exchangers

(a)(1) After July 7, 1987, each currency dealer or exchanger shall secure and maintain a record of the taxpayer identification number of each person for whom a transaction account is opened or a line of credit is extended within 30 days after such account is opened or credit line extended. Where a person is a non-resident alien, the currency dealer or exchanger shall also record the person’s passport number or a description of some other government document used to verify his identity. Where the account or credit line is in the names of two or more persons, the currency dealer or exchanger shall secure the taxpayer identification number of a person having a financial interest in the account or credit line. In the event that a currency dealer or exchanger has been unable to secure the identification required within the 30-day period specified, it shall nevertheless not be deemed to be in violation of this section if: (i) It has made a reasonable effort to secure such identification(continued here.)

FDIC Law, Regulations, Related Acts

(i) Customer information required–(A) In general. The CIP must contain procedures for opening an account that specify the identifying information that will be obtained from each customer. Except as permitted by paragraphs (a)(2)(i)(B)/> and © of this section, the bank must obtain, at a minimum, the following information from the customer prior to opening an account:

(1) Name;

(2) Date of birth, for an individual;

(3) Address, which shall be:

(i) For an individual, a residential or business street address;

(ii) For an individual who does not have a residential or business street address, an Army Post Office (APO) or Fleet Post Office (FPO) box number, or the residential or business street address of next of kin or of another contact individual; or

(iii) For a person other than an individual (such as a corporation, partnership, or trust), a principal place of business, local office, or other physical location; and

(4) Identification number, which shall be:

(i) For a U.S. person, a taxpayer identification number; or

(ii) For a non-U.S. person, one or more of the following: A taxpayer identification number; passport number and country of issuance; alien identification card number; or number and country of issuance of any other government-issued document evidencing nationality or residence and bearing a photograph or similar safeguard (continued here.)

Fincen summary of Patriot Act

Section 326: Verification of Identification Prescribes regulations establishing minimum standards for financial institutions and their customers regarding the identity of a customer that shall apply with the opening of an account at the financial institution (continued here.)

no-where in any of that does it say you need to take social security number for smaller purchases. if it's $999.99 or less they dont need any information from you and that's the law. you highlighted part of what they said they caomply with the law but the law doesn't say that. they are asking for more information than they need by law and that makes me uncomfortable. go to any currency exchage and they don't need DL or social on exchanges under $1,000

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