A Question for Nelg

[bamagirl]

Thank you Nelg, it does... hope you have a wonderful morning!

[BIGSKY1]

Nelg- what a wonderful, insiteful response, your thoughts are exactly as mine on this subject and as delta said it scares the he** out of me too. But I am also of the belief that maybe as a nation we are passed the point and should be expecting God's judgement for sitting back and allowing our great nation to have gotten in this terrible shape.

[dog53]

Hey Nelg.. thanks for your reply to Delta I've been in suspense for it also,, it scares me but I know you're speaking the truth... You wrote 'a rejection of standards is a rejection of God' and that hit me. You know for many of us Romney isn't what we consider our highest standard for a POTUS but we are intending to vote for him because he's the best choice we are given.... Do you think it is a 'rejection of God' to lower our standards and vote for him?? I like him more now than I did but I still think America deserves and still could do better...

Just food for thought Bamagirl. " Render unto cesar what is cesars (a vote) Render unto god what is gods. (your soul)

[Orthophonic]

Delta22

I’ll answer your question and then make some comments.

James writes that the prayer of the righteous person can accomplish much (James 5:16). But the prerequisite of answered prayer is also given in the context: it must be uttered out of a heart of faith (5:15) and a righteous life. In other places it is a person who is a child of God and not one who persists in sin (John 9:31). If the believers pray God will hear and will answer, but the answer may not be what we expect.

There comes a point when the nation (any nation) is so full of ungodliness, rebellion against God, and pride that God will not spare the people from His discipline and wrath.

All of us need to be praying for the U.S. to repent and get back to God. If it does not seek God and repent, then no matter how righteous or how many are praying, God will still bring us into judgment. He has done so with every nation of the world, and America is no exception.

The Old Testament is basically a history of God’s dealing with Israel, but it also includes other nations of the world. It would take many pages to show that this is so. I will state a summary of what I have found: God used the nations to accomplish His purpose in the world. He ruled then and He rules now in the kingdoms of men. He causes one nation to rise up and He causes other nations to be brought down. The nation God uses does not need to be a righteous or just nation or even a believing nation. They can be a very wicked nation, but He used them in the discipline against His chosen people when they sinned.

When Jerusalem (Israel) was destroyed in A.D. 70, God used wicked Roman to do it. There were thousands of Christians and Jews in the city and praying for their physical deliverance. It was not to be so. Hundreds died. The reason: Israel as a nation had so corrupted themselves that they rejected God who had come and walked among them. The Gospels tell the story of Christ, but it is also the story of His rejection by supposed “believers.”

No nation, no matter how magnificent and powerful will be able to stand if God declares its destruction. The United States included.

Erypeet, a native Christian from Papua New Guinea, stood before a packed auditorium to preach his first message in the United States. He had been an animist all his life, but had become a believer in Christ. He was the first of his tribe to receive a degree from a Christian university and was now ready to return to Papua. The air in the assembly was electrifying. What would he say? Would he be impressed with what he had seen in the past five years in the United States?

Erypeet stood to speak a message that God had laid on his heart:

“America is a land of idolaters, not only outside the professing church, but inside it. We read of those who ‘feared the Lord, and served their own gods’ (2Kngs 17:33). Yet the Word of God tells us to ‘flee from idolatry’ . . .”

The congregation was shocked, and a cold silence froze every movement. This was not what they expected. Nor is it what we expect.

The U.S. is a wonderful place to live compared to the rest of the world. But we are a nation that is plunging headlong into rebellion against the God of Heaven! We are a people bound to do things “my” way. We have challenged every moral principle, refused to humble ourselves before God, and failed to repent of our sinful actions. The masses do not even acknowledge sin or understand its devastation on the nation or their own individual lives. God has been mocked, the Christians scorned, the Word of God relegated to myths and fables; and church has been made a farce. Sexual perversion is now “normal” and accepted by society. The meaning of words have changed to mean just the opposite of their original intent: honesty is now crafty; righteous means a person who doesn’t disclose and injustice; sinner is anyone intolerant of sin; and holiness is the justification of evil.

The sum and substance of the charge against any nation that God judges and destroys is that it has left God in search of more exciting and “relevant” ways of living. God states it in this way in the book of Jeremiah, “For My people have committed two evils: The have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, to hew for themselves cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.” (Jer 2:13) Cisterns were rocks cut to hold and store water. But the water become stale, and the cisterns are cracked.

We trust in governments to take care of us with strong military power to “keep the peace,” but that has only produced war and killing. We trust in “education” to get people out of poverty or to keep individuals from crime, drugs, and illness, but it has not worked! Nor will it ever work.

We need better leaders. They will rescue us from all our problems! But instead the leadership is corrupt and brings more hard times for the people. Priests, preachers, and presidents are discarding their responsibility to God to go after their own agenda. There is none who are seeking God. All are going after their own way and the nations are suffering for lack of spiritual and political leaders who understand and seek God.

Honesty, justice, righteousness, morality, goodness are principles of God and not just codified law! Law does not have to be written or codified by legislation in order to exist. It exists because of God and remains a requirement upon God’s creation as God’s free moral agents. When these truths are transgressed, this is sin against God and society. My point is this: there are laws of a moral nature which exist and consequently there is a moral order in the universe to which humanity and nations are responsible. When these laws are broken, whether by individuals or nations, we are held accountable. In order for there to be a moral economy there must be a vindication of moral law. God being moral and holy must of necessity, in order for Him to be true to himself and vindicate His moral law, exercise His sovereign government in the earth. To do so means that He must judge the world or nation or individual.

Crime is increasing in our cities and townships five times faster than our population growth. Why? Why have we jettisoned a pattern of obedience to biblical and moral law? Here is but a partial answer. Authoritarian approaches to law are surrendering to a position which says that the moral quality of any act my only be determined in the existential situation. What does that mean? In an effort to reinterpret ancient moral codes (Bible) and to place them within a modern context, the architects of a “new society” or “new morality” or “new generation” have said that any conceivable act is morally right if the situation is “right.” It leaves the individual to decide whether incest, murder, adultery, or any other act is right or wrong. “Absolutes” are no longer a way of thinking. We have fallen into the trap of living by averages. Studies or polls are made to determine where we stand in relationship to the “average” individual. We study polls to learn how we fare with the “average” person in regard to sexuality and morality. We then draw a line through the behavior of society in hope that finding ourselves one shade above the average, and then we can justify our action as legitimate. Each time we lower the average more and more and we find ourselves living by the lower average. A society which travels down this path, eventually discovers that there are no longer any moral absolutes codified that can hold them accountable for their actions. And this is where we are today.

Nations need to be shocked, alarmed, and penitent, but so far that has not happened. A rejection of standards is a rejection of God. Freedom without responsibility is certain to receive judgment without mercy. Certainly there will be a last judgment for both individuals and nations, but there is also a judgment by God during this lifetime. When a nation manifests an immorality and unrighteousness in excess of the nation’s willingness to repent, then that nation must receive the just judgment of God.

There are times when it does not matter how many people are praying, nor how righteous the people are who pray, the destiny of a nation can be sealed because their sin is so full and their rejection so complete that God must destroy the nation.

We don’t like to hear that. We had much rather believe that we can pray and that God will set aside His moral righteousness and treat us as just making some mistakes that He can overlook. We want Him to be like us, and He is not.

Certainly we all need to be praying for our nations and the nations of the world to repent and seek God. I pray for this nation daily! I don’t want the nation to be judged and subjugated to another nation, but it could and will happen if we fail to get back on tract with God!

Thanks for this post Nelg. You have spelled it out very eloquently. The U.S. is doomed. Thanks for posting the truth. Plus to you!!!