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Here's Your "PROOF" There Is No Jesus Christ:


CarbonCoyote
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I guess I choose to look at it this way: I have survived an ugly divorce where my ex and her church left me for emotionally dead and spiritually critical. I did not turn my back on God then. I survived pastors spreading rumors about he that I did not even know I did. I did not turn my back on God. I survived being asked not to come back to a church and IF I did all I could do was sit and not sing in choir of play my instruments. I did not turn my back on God. I survived being separated from my children and not having the church encouraging them to remember that I was still their father even though I divorced there mother. I did not turn my back on God. I survived my daughter all but formally disowning me for what ever reasons she has in her head and she is a hard core 'Christian', I did not turn my back on God. I survived being abandoned by the very people that I had devoted my life to when I was a pastor. I did not turn by back on God. I have survived feeling like God had moved and left no forwarding address to this red headed ^&*( child. I did not turn my back on God. I am NOT a wonderful Christian. Maybe I more stubborn than righteous. I have had people debate Christ and Christianity and all the other stuff. Bottom line is I've come too far to turn away now.

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I guess I choose to look at it this way: I have survived an ugly divorce where my ex and her church left me for emotionally dead and spiritually critical. I did not turn my back on God then. I survived pastors spreading rumors about he that I did not even know I did. I did not turn my back on God. I survived being asked not to come back to a church and IF I did all I could do was sit and not sing in choir of play my instruments. I did not turn my back on God. I survived being separated from my children and not having the church encouraging them to remember that I was still their father even though I divorced there mother. I did not turn my back on God. I survived my daughter all but formally disowning me for what ever reasons she has in her head and she is a hard core 'Christian', I did not turn my back on God. I survived being abandoned by the very people that I had devoted my life to when I was a pastor. I did not turn by back on God. I have survived feeling like God had moved and left no forwarding address to this red headed ^&*( child. I did not turn my back on God. I am NOT a wonderful Christian. Maybe I more stubborn than righteous. I have had people debate Christ and Christianity and all the other stuff. Bottom line is I've come too far to turn away now.

Gotta love that faithfulness. People may not respect actions that you have made but sir, I respect the faith you have.

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I have proof their is Jesus!!! I pray to him everyday and he answer my prayers and you can't tell me he does not, your post only makes one person happy and that is Satan, why would you post a post like this? Did anyone ask you for your false proof? No!!! To me it was not worth reading. Next time you're in serious trouble and you need help because its 911 you better remember who the real Jesus is and say a prayer you're gonna need him. Enough said,.

Here is the only link I need to provide , pay close attention to this short video and learn what I'm talking about:

http://www.godvine.com/Man-Dies-and-Returns-to-Life-on-the-Operating-Table-420.html

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Wrong!!!!!! Hebrews 12:2 states that "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Now people say that it is tough to understand such an archaic language but studies show that its written at a pre-high school level. The joy that was set before him endured the cross. aka he went through the cross because it would allow salvation for us. And is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Thats a present tense verb.

Please allow me once again to break it down for you:

Hebrews 12:2 ... God Disciplines His Son(s)

"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus (Titus), the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning it's shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Here God (Vespasian) is talking to both of his sons (Titus and Domitian) and stating that He (Titus) avoided the cross; scorned it's shame, because "He" Titus didn't hang on a cross like the character they had created, but instead, is sitting at the right hand of God(Vespasian).

"Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart."

God (Vespasian) is telling Domitian that his brother (Titus) endured such opposition from the forces he fought in the desert (sinful men who did not believe that Vespasian was God and Titus was the Son of God), and he should be respected for that

"In your struggle against sin, you have not resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons."

Domitian, in your struggle against the Jewish Rebels, you did not resist to the point that you were wounded, but your brother Titus did

"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

He said "My son", referring to Domitian. Do not take lightly your brothers new position in the Kingdom, and do not lose heart, he is the chosen one, and he now has the authority to punish you.

Further down the passage in Hebrews 12:9 God (Vespasian) says:

"Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us, and we respect them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness"

Here Vespasian is stating "we have all had human fathers who disciplined us", but now that I am the true living God of Heaven (the new Jerusalem), I will discipline you for your good, so that you may share in my holiness

Question: Did or does a REAL God have a human father?

For those that want the King James Version of the above passage, you can see it here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2012&version=KJV

Now, for those of you who cannot see the 800 lb. Gorilla in the Room, let me lay it out for you:

If "God Himself" was disciplined by his own father, then who the hell is God's Father" ??????????

If this "God" we've all been raised to believe is the All Mighty, the One and Only Creator of Man/Women, the Stars, the Sun, the Moon, the Planet, the Galaxy, then who the hell created him ??????????

The "REAL" God of God's has NO father; he "IS" the Father.

If the person (Vespasian) who's claiming to be "God" in the Holy Bible is in fact nothing more than an egotistical maniac that's claiming to be the living God, then what validity does that give to the entire Bible itself?

Now again, I'm not attacking anyone's faith. I was a devout Christian for many years. I've spent a lot of time studying this (unlike many who've posted in this thread), and it is not something you can simply jump on a thread and read the title of and immediately go into Attack and Denial Mode on without taking some time to research the facts.

Some of you jumped on this thread in less than 30 seconds after I made the post and went on with your attacks. It takes at least 4-6 hours of listening and research before you can even begin to comprehend what is being reveled. I knew this would be a BIG problem, so hopefully this comment will wake a few people up and they will go back and listen to the videos and research the Roman-Jewish War; research the Arch of Titus, and "THEN" you will be able to make an educated response to dispute the claim.

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Stop using a copywrited Bible version. The KJV is the only Bible version that is not copywrited. the others are because they are written to MAKE MONEY!!!! Not for the "perfecting of the Scriptures." Here is the scriptures that you are using in the purest translation.

Hebrews 12: 1-9

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*stards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Now, you probably do not like this version because it does not have that oh so pivital word "all" before fathers. Stop using corrupted translations of the scriptures. Its Paul talking in an analogy about how God the Father punishes us just as our earthly Father punished us.

Don't let these corrupted scriptures deter you from the true faith. Think about it, isn't that exactly what satan would desire?

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Please allow me once again to break it down for you:

Now again, I'm not attacking anyone's faith. I was a devout Christian for many years. I've spent a lot of time studying this (unlike many who've posted in this thread), and it is not something you can simply jump on a thread and read the title of and immediately go into Attack and Denial Mode on without taking some time to research the facts.

Some of you jumped on this thread in less than 30 seconds after I made the post and went on with your attacks. It takes at least 4-6 hours of listening and research before you can even begin to comprehend what is being reveled. I knew this would be a BIG problem, so hopefully this comment will wake a few people up and they will go back and listen to the videos and research the Roman-Jewish War; research the Arch of Titus, and "THEN" you will be able to make an educated response to dispute the claim.

DUDE..!

You made your point and took your stance....

now chill and give it a break!

You dont have to come back with a half page response to every post...

If you still believe,but in whatever form your stating..Great!

Let whoever wants to digest what you have posted make their choice..

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Stop using a copywrited Bible version. The KJV is the only Bible version that is not copywrited. the others are because they are written to MAKE MONEY!!!! Not for the "perfecting of the Scriptures." Here is the scriptures that you are using in the purest translation.

Hebrews 12: 1-9

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*stards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Now, you probably do not like this version because it does not have that oh so pivital word "all" before fathers. Stop using corrupted translations of the scriptures. Its Paul talking in an analogy about how God the Father punishes us just as our earthly Father punished us.

Don't let these corrupted scriptures deter you from the true faith. Think about it, isn't that exactly what satan would desire?

I do not have time to dissect this for you right now; I have to leave. Take my translations from the post above and put them under your numbered series. Go study the original post and listen to the videos; study the war and you will see where it all comes together my friend. You will eventually have the face palm moment later this evening if you will take the time to study the information in the original post.

Please, everyone take the time to study the information before attacking. I'm not your enemy. If we've all been praising a false God for many years, isn't it time we figure out who the REAL God is and start praising him instead? This is a Grand Conspiracy to High-Jack the Militant-Messianic Movement of the Jews back in 69-70 CE.

Read the Scriptures in their literal and typological sense. Read them as they were written in the present day at THAT time; and stop looking at them as some magical all seeing eye glass; they are not.

Study the information in the original post. It may be tomorrow before I can reply again.

Peace and God Bless.

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Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I mean it doesn't get any clearer than that. You don't need to study hours of mens reasoning, all you need is a little faith.

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There are so many holes in this post I don't even know where to begin. So I won't.

Well, I take that back, I have to say, you don't have to just believe with blind faith. If you diligently search the Bible with an honest, open, and forthright mind, the science, mathematics, history, prophecies, archeology, and the fact that it wasn't written by one person who had a dream or a vision, but over 60 different authors over hundreds of years, you may begin to see as millions have that it points to only one thing... The book is supernatural! And if it is, what does it say? A real and historic Jesus loved the world so much that he gave his life for it, and whoever believes that, will have eternal life.

Spend some real time researching this amazing 'book', it's in there!

One more thing, the God of that theory, is dead and it's amazing how this 'new' concept was never revealed but has remained hidden all these years to most.

Sorry, I"ve seen too much and experienced too much to know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God who loves us and He sent His Son. You can take it or leave it, we've all been created to make our own choice. Sometimes that's the pits, but it is how the game plays...

Come back before it's too late...

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There are so many holes in this post I don't even know where to begin. So I won't.

Well, I take that back, I have to say, you don't have to just believe with blind faith. If you diligently search the Bible with an honest, open, and forthright mind, the science, mathematics, history, prophecies, archeology, and the fact that it wasn't written by one person who had a dream or a vision, but over 60 different authors over hundreds of years, you may begin to see as millions have that it points to only one thing... The book is supernatural! And if it is, what does it say? A real and historic Jesus loved the world so much that he gave his life for it, and whoever believes that, will have eternal life.

Spend some real time researching this amazing 'book', it's in there!

One more thing, the God of that theory, is dead and it's amazing how this 'new' concept was never revealed but has remained hidden all these years to most.

Sorry, I"ve seen too much and experienced too much to know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God who loves us and He sent His Son. You can take it or leave it, we've all been created to make our own choice. Sometimes that's the pits, but it is how the game plays...

Come back before it's too late...

Why on earth can I only like this ONCE?!!!! haha

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If you really want to get academic here, how about the Works of Josephus? A historian who had no agenda and wrote about the man they called Christos (Kristos). There are other historical writings but those titles slip me at present. Secondly, there is the legalistic or legal interpretation of evidence of the existence of the one called Christ. The followers who are historical in nature due to the writings which mention them would be a level of a witness to the existence of Christ. There is no scientific data for the existence of Christ that I know of any more than there is scientific data for the existence of Abraham Lincoln since Lincoln can not be repeated in a controlled environment and have measured results. If there was no existence of the one called Christ then the followers would have known that it was a hoax and would not have died willingly such painful deaths. These deaths are also a part of historical records if checked. Whether someone wants to call Him Christ or not the existence of a Supreme Being is extremely strong. The argument of Design/Designer or Organization/Organizer has stood a strong test of time. The complexity of the universe, planetary structures and orbits also lay to the idea of a complex design that did not happen by chance. The moons of the rings of Saturn, for example, revolve in reverse order to each other yet have not collided and still obit. The astronauts stepped into approximately 1/4 inch of lunar dust which was the amount to have fallen in less than 50000 years. The mars rover is able to leave its wheel tracks in the dust of Mars proving that Mars is not a planet which existed billions of years ago. The rover would have been swallowed up by the lunar dust if it was that old. Even an examination of atmospheric gases also gives evidence to an early earth. The theory of continental drift actually gives support to many of the Bible's stories such as a great flood which has been told in about every population of mankind and every location.

For me, my faith is much more than simply stepping off into the night. It is an intelligent faith. Faith acted upon become fact.

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CarbonCoyote, you say your a Christian, my question to you is, have you once presented this to God? Have you asked God to guide you in this? Have you asked for His wisdom? Have you asked God to strengthen your faith? We are all humans and our faith tends to weaken every now and then and God knows this. Put your faith into practice, ignore this rubbish and hold strong to what the Lord brings forth to you.

Just my :twocents:;)

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though you have some of the story right .....your way off bace .....and all these others that your quoting ...are not even close

the second coming was planed by rome .....but would be Constantine ....who was both Pagan and Christian ....He left rome to create his own religion based on Christianity and placed his self as a Christ figure

And started his own city Constantanopal ...where he placed a statue with his face .the body of Mercury ...with a crown of stars .resembling the statue lady liberty

Jesus never preached that he was the savior ...or the Christ ....and did have family ...but the children were hid ....from people like you ...who would stretch the story

This subject is much larger than most people know .....even the ones that think they know .....DONT KNOW ........the group knows who I'm talking about

God is a real entity ......angels do exist ...there was a garden .....and a flood.....and places of sin where wiped from the earth

the first three you have never heard of .....but the ones of what you will recognize ....Pompeii ,70ad thirty years after Jesus was crucified covered not wiped (rome place of extreme sin)so that it would be discovered to show the un imaginable power of the watchers .....

Babylon 3000 bc -500 bc .....also covered not wiped from the earth .....also destroyed after the roman occupation ..to be discovered at a latter date ......both were places of sin against the chosen people of the last group of watchers (angels )

This group of people who's god is the god of Abraham ....and is the same god of Islam (though some don't realize ) and the god of Christians and most Jewish dissidents

All three main stream religions were divided with just enough information not to rule over one another .....till the right time ...and then a compilation will accrue all three together as one .....to stand against the other God that was fought off........ way before what we know ...of civilization ...today

CarbonCoyote, you say your a Christian, my question to you is, have you once presented this to God? Have you asked God to guide you in this? Have you asked for His wisdom? Have you asked God to strengthen your faith? We are all humans and our faith tends to weaken every now and then and God knows this. Put your faith into practice, ignore this rubbish and hold strong to what the Lord brings forth to you.

Just my :twocents:;)

This guy will not get answers from the God ....he better start with some one in his family for the advice of there watcher .....and just pray the watcher helps ....cz at the end he will be found wanting

[

Edited by randalln
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With a Heavy Heart i hate to say that one day when you are standing before god to be judged he is going pull up this garbage you decided to post and direct you straight to hell. Keep beliving this BS folks tend to conjure up due to boredom. I am known as the pot stirrer and i am glad to stir this one.

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First off, Jesus is real and I know It because I have a personal relationship with him. When I worship Him I feel His presence, and He leads me and guides me everyday.

According to Bible prophecy, there will be a great apostasy from Christ’s church.  This apostasy – the apostasy – will occur before the rapture, the tribulation, and the rise of Antichrist, and will involve a departing from the faith by those who call themselves Christians.  Regarding the second coming of Christ, Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”  The Greek word apostasia is used here for the “falling away.”  It is from this word that we derive the English word “apostasy.”  Apostasy is defined as “a defection from the truth,” or “a departing from that which was given at first.”   

In spite of its phenomenal growth, Christianity has had apostate tendencies throughout history.  But Paul speaks of a particularly significant departure from sound doctrine.  This apostasy will be the climax of all previous apostate tendencies, and will be worldwide in scope.  Paul continues his description of this apostasy in 1 Timothy 4:1-2, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.”   

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Before I open this bag of worms, I'd like to state for the record: I have been a "Christian" all my life; studied the Bible over and over and over again. Have always considered "Jesus Christ" to be my Lord and Savior and God to be "All Mighty Eye In the Sky". In light of this (not so) new information, it is with a heavy heart I present you the following:

"The Roman Conspiracy To Create Jesus Christ"

Get a load of this: http://caesarsmessiahdoc.com/

It's going to be released in Beverly Hills, CA. September 28, 2012

The Second Coming of Christ Has Already Happened.

There is absolutely no denial after you grasp this. It may take you a few hours to finally get the gist of it, but once it hits you, it's a WHAM you'll never forget, and you'll never look at the Scriptures the same again.

The "Holy Trinity" .... "Vespasian - Titus - Domitian" .... All three became Emperors of Rome, and after Titus' death, Domitian constructed the "Arch of Titus":

Arch of Titus in Rome was constructed in 82 AD by the Roman Emperor Domitian shortly after the death of his older brother Titus to commemorate Titus’ victory in the Sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The Arch of Titus has provided the general model for many of the triumphal arches erected since the 16th century including the Arc de Triomphe.

The "Second Coming of Christ" was Titus' take down of Jerusalem, and the Son of God was memorialized with this mighty Arch. The second attempt was successful, and that was the Second Coming.

As seen here: http://www.touropia.com/ancient-roman-monuments/

The concept of a divine trinity consisting of a father, son and “Holy Ghost” – the Greek words actually mean “awful spirit” – comes from Josephus. Josephus applies the Jews’ messianic prophecies, not just to Vespasian, but to his dynasty. In other words the real trinity is Vespasian, his son Titus, and his son Domitian – the awful spirit.

Domitian was the "Holy Ghost" - The "Awful Spirit" who wanted to be recognized as a God himself.

In Greek evangelion, a technical term meaning “good news of military victory.” In English, it is translated as “gospel.”

The "Gospels" is nothing more than a military victory account of the Romans win of the Jewish. The New Testament was written by the Flavian Dynasty with the help of Josephus Flavius

For anyone who doubts that the Flavian's of the Roman Dynasty and Josephus were the ones that actually wrote the New Testament and created "Jesus", just take a moment out of your day and ask yourself why is the Bible so Antisemitic and so "Pro-Roman"? .... "Turn the other cheek" .... "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's", etc.

Now ask yourself if you've ever even noticed the book of "Romans" and the book of "Titus" in the NT? Now are you ready for the FACE PALM moment?

Why would a Jewish loving "God" dedicate in his written words, a book to "Romans" and another to "Titus"?

Go read Titus, and realize that it is actually Vespasian (God) giving the Son of God (Titus) instructions on how to teach the newly acquired slaves (Jewish after the Romans conquered them in the War) how to be obedient to their new masters (Vespasian and Titus).

The Original Jewish people had their own God, and he was David; a real Titan; a warrior; a man of war that even brought down Goliath and was soon to take the head off of Caesar (Dead Sea Scrolls), and there were many Jews amongst and within the Roman Empire who were gathering in groups discussing how their God "David" was coming soon to take the head off of Caesar. Nero didn't like this and called upon Vespasian who he had earlier exiled to return to the Empire and deal with this disobedient Jews, and he did along with his great warrior son Titus.

Vespasian and his son Titus went to Jerusalem and tried to bring down the city, but failed. That was the first coming of Jesus Christ (Titus). Vespasian was wounded and told his son Titus he MUST reenter Jerusalem and finally take her down and make all those unruly Jews submit to the Roman Empire, and Titus went back to Jerusalem and did just that.

Here's Part 1: and there are 5 parts total:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-8J7d1ZfRk&list=PL3735D891E0D23E15&index=1&feature=plpp_video

And that was the "Second Coming of Christ" aka "Titus".

The following account of Vespasian's triumph in Rome is provided to us by the Jewish historian, Josephus who was present at the festivities. His description not only provides insight into this victory celebration but also of the nature of other triumphs staged after a Roman victory. We join his story in the early morning hours of the day of the festivities:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/rometriumph.htm

The Jews who submitted to their Master (God) and came to him through his Son (Titus) were allowed to enter the "Kingdom of God" aka "Heaven". Those that disobeyed were killed or not allowed inside the gates of Heaven (the new Jerusalem).

Now hopefully you understand why many Jewish people today do not believe in Jesus Christ; nor do they follow or praise him. Their God is "David" the great warrior and not the pacifistic "Jesus" that turned the other cheek and gave unto Caesar.

Use your head for a moment and realize the Jews and Romans were arch enemies. Do you really think their "God" would be a pacifistic tax slave? Or would he have been a Warrior?

The Romans created this "Jesus" character to hopefully teach the Jews to turn the other cheek; submit to authority; give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

Why would a real living God who's loving and caring order his followers to kill sinners and their children? Seriously think about this a moment: Would a loving God order the death of a child of a sinner? What did the child have to do with a mother infidelity? The child should not be held accountable for a parents sins, right?

Or did he (Vespasian aka God) order the killing of children so that one day they would not come back to revenge the death of their parents?

Why would a God demand sinners to bring their best Oxen and Cattle as a tribute to God as an offering for their sins? Could it be because there was nothing of more value that the Jews could afford? Why would it be easier for a Camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into Heaven? Could it be, because Vespasian did not want anyone of wealth in that Kingdom but himself?

The Scriptures were back dated 40 years to the day that Titus took down Jerusalem. Remember that Jesus spoke of this real Messiah that would burn down the cities; surround Jerusalem and raze the Temple within that 40 year span. The Romans created "Jesus" and made him a passive and forgiving Messiah; one that would turn the other cheek and give unto Caesar that which was Caesars.

The supposed Crucifixion of Jesus Christ was a mockery to the Jews; the end of Christianity; the end of their messiah Jesus, and the acknowledgment of the REAL "Jesus Christ" that fulfilled all those prophesies that the Jews Jesus spoke of, and that REAL "Jesus Christ" was Titus, the Son of God (Vespasian).

They (the Romans-Flavian Caesars) wanted to be known as God (Vespasian) and the Son of God-Jesus Christ (Titus). The only way they could get the Jews to accept them as Gods was to get them to pray through this made up Jesus character they invented. The Jews would NEVER bow to a living man (Vespasian), but by bowing to "Jesus Christ", they were actually bowing to the Caesars of the Roman Empire. They wore a mask; created a strawman (Jesus). They did not care about the name; they knew that they created "Jesus", and when the Jews were bowing and praying to Him, that they were actually bowing to Vespasian and Titus.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow for Christians (myself included), but if you actually step away from the Bible and stop looking at it as some magical book, and read it in it's literal typological form, the truth is in plain sight for all to see.

The campaign of "Jesus" ministry and the campaign of Titus' war on the Jews are in perfect sequence with each other if you read Josephus' court of record of the Jewish-Roman War. Remember that Josephus was a Jewish General who was captured by Titus' Army; they spared him; he was a great mind and they had a use for him in the Empire. One record of events is totally dependent on the other; as in the ministry campaign of Jesus was actually created from Titus' campaign in his war on Jerusalem.

All "Religions" are total BS; they are meant to divide and conquer; to control the masses; to teach obedience to a master, and that master is Government.

Now you know why all the authors of the Bible never contradict each other; because it was written by a few men at the time; all in the same court.

"Jesus" spoke of his prophecy in 40 years (within his lifetime), not of 2000 years afterwards and beyond. The Flavian's back dated the Scriptures 40 years on purpose, so that when Titus actually brought down Jerusalem it would look as if HE was the real Christ.

The many "Anti-Christs" that will (already did) come, are actually nothing more than those who opposed Vespasian and Titus; they were non believers; must be possessed with demonic spirits since they did not believe in Jesus Christ (Titus). These disobedient slaves with demonic spirits were against "Anti" Jesus Christ aka Anti-Christs.

No one shall enter the Kingdom of God (Vespasian) without coming through his Son "Jesus Christ" which was actually Titus.

John 3:16

For God (Vespasian) so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son (Titus), that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Go read "Titus" at the end of the New Testament; then read Romans and Philemon where "Paul is a prisoner of Christ Jesus".

At the end of Revelation written by Josephus from the words of God (Vespasian), he warns anyone who alters the text will suffer the plagues described within.

Would a loving God actually do all those things to man just because he changes some text? Or is that the "Threat" of God (Vespasian) to anyone who would alter his words?

Now read Revelation 19:11 "The Rider on the White Horse"

I saw Heaven standing open (the walls of Jerusalem had holes in them from the battle and the gates were finally opened) and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe "dipped in blood" ...

Would a robe dipped in blood actually mean that the robe is Red or Scarlet?

A Roman Victory Parade was at hand; Titus was wearing his Victory Robe and the Victory Crown upon his head as he entered the gates of Heaven (The New Jerusalem).

Here's the famous painting on Joseph Atwill's facebook page:

The triumph was a gala affair. Presided over by Vespasian and Titus, it featured piles of booty, including gold relics taken from the destroyed Jewish Temple, paraded through the streets. Now you understand what the text means by "Streets of Gold".

Titus was the the Rider on the White Horse followed by the armies that followed him were on white horses and dressed in fine linen .... It was a VICTORY PARADE; the "Second Coming of Christ" had taken place; they were all celebrating and dressed for the occasion. It was now time for God (Vespasian) to take his Throne, and the Son of God (Titus) to be seated at his right hand.

"You are worthy to take the scroll and to open it's seals because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God..."

Titus was wounded in the war.

Once you tie the Scriptures to the Roman-Jewish War, it is plain as day.

Here's Josephus' account of the victory celebration first hand:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/rometriumph.htm

The most precious of objects taken from Jerusalem were items from the Temple: the golden table on which the bread of the presence had been placed, the golden lampstand, or Menorah, the golden trumpets used in calling people to worship, and a copy of the Jewish Torah. Behind the wagons that carried these objects rode Vespasian, then Titus, with Domitian beside him. The triumphal procession ended at the temple of Jupiter Capitolinus where Simon, son of Gioras, who had been the Jewish general, was put to death before all of the citizens of Rome. All of this happened in 70 A.D. when Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple of God.

If you will read the book in it's literary and typological sense, you will come to realize it was an account of what had happened THEN, not what would happen 2,000 years from THEN.

Listen to Joseph Atwill explain the truth about the "Jesus" character and how and why he was brought to life:

Here's another very good interview:

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/CaesarsMessiah

Look up his other interviews on YouTube as well.

Ask yourself one question: Why would a Book inspired by God himself who loved the Jewish people more than anything in the world or universe combined, dedicate a Chapter of His Book to the "Romans" and another to "Titus"?

Answer: Because the Flavian's created Christianity and with the help of Josephus Flavius, they created the character known as "Jesus Christ", and Titus himself fulfilled all the prophesies of THEIR creation, and his Father who is now known as God and accepted as God along with Titus who would now be accepted as "Jesus Christ" had fulfilled the prophecy of the "End Times", which was nothing more than the end of Jerusalem and the Messianic Christian Movement with the "Second Coming of Christ" aka "Titus".

As a tribute to their conquering victory of the Jews and to make sure everyone living at that time knew that Vespasian was to now be recognized as God and Titus as the Son of God aka Jesus Christ, they put it in plain sight for all to see in the book of Romans and the book of Titus.

In the book of Titus, Vespasian (God) is talking to his Son Titus (Jesus Christ) and instructing him on how to teach the new slaves (Jews) to be subservient and obedient to their new God.

Just read it; it's right there in the "Holy Bible" for all to see who the REAL God and the REAL Jesus Christ really is.

This is a good overview on Joe's Blog:

http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/2011/04/caesars-messiah-a-summary-of-findings-by-john-hudson/

Once we break the chains of religion, the political structure of the world WILL change.

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ has already taken place; and the "End Times" are nothing more than the end of the militaristic-messianic movement of the Jews in about 70 CE (Common Era).

Now Here Is The Clincher Folks: Once you read this, it's the end of all discussion; the end of any rebuttal's of so called "Biblical Scholars" or "Bible Gurus" or "Paul and Jan Crouch on TBN"., and anyone else who tries to rebut Joseph Atwill's Revelation of this conspiracy.

What if you could witness with your very own eyes, a statement from "God" himself that admitted over 2,000 years ago that he "Had A Human Father That Disciplined Him"?

From this link here: PROOF: God (Vespasian) Himself Admits in the Scriptures to Having a "Human Father That Disciplined Him"

Here's your "PROOF" that the person you've been praying to all these years, is none other than the Roman Emperor "Vespasian Flavius" himself. And the Son of God we've all known as "Jesus Christ" is none other than "Titus Flavius", his son:

Hebrews 3:8 Warning Against Unbelief

"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert"

Translation: Now that you see I am "God", do not harden your hearts (and minds) against me, like you "DID" during the rebellion. As in, I God and my Son Jesus Christ (Titus) conquered you all; you were once rebellious sinners, do not let that happen again.

"Did" is past tense people; it already happened.

Now onto another:

Hebrews 3:16

"Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?"

Translation: Aren't all of those sinners who rebelled against us in this battle, the same sinners who were led out of Egypt by Moses?

Again: It already happened.

And here's more:

Hebrews 9:12

"He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption"

Translation: Titus did not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (the new Jerusalem they had just conquered) by giving the blood sacrifices of goats and calves like the rest of you; he entered by the shedding of his own blood in the battle; he led the way, therefor is entitled to eternal redemption.

Next:

Hebrews 13:17

"Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Translation: Obey your new leaders and submit to their authority; they must account for you at all times, if you fail to obey them and make their lives difficult, you will surely pay.

Next:

2 John: 7

"Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the anti-christ"

Translation: The Jews who fled before and during the battle that did not believe that Vespasian was God and his Son Titus was our Lord Jesus Christ, are still out there in the world. Those such persons are considered to be Anti-Christs; non believers; they are against Titus; do not believe he is the Christ Jesus; they are "anti-Titus", therefor to be considered "anti-Christs".

I can go on and on and on and Onnnnnnnn. Once you realize the ministry campaign of the Jesus the Flavian's created is in sequence and dependent upon the military campaign of Titus (study the times and locations of both); you will see what actually happened. They simply back dated the Scriptures 40 years so that Titus was the one who fulfilled all the prophecies the "character Jesus" spoke of.

They killed two birds with one stone: They wrote in the Scriptures that 40 years ago their "Jesus Christ" who walked the earth prophesying of this great day Heaven would be restored on earth, was not the actual messiah; but an impostor; the wannabe messiah. It is apparent that he was not the messiah Jesus, because he was slain and hanged on a Cross for all the world to see (although no one from that generation was actually there to see the event take place); that his father "God" he spoke of was not some eye in the sky; it was actually Vespasian; and the REAL messiah was now proven to the world to be Titus "Jesus Christ". Titus is the one who opened the gates to heaven (Jerusalem); Titus is the one who commanded the armies circle Jerusalem; Titus is the one who razed the Temple; Titus is the one who cast the Devil (the General who was the leader of the opposition; the HEAD of the non-believers; the MAIN Anti-Christ himself) into the pits of hell (the river burning with ashes from wood and rubble from the 47 days of war).

It was Titus who fulfilled all the prophecies this "fake messiah" spoke of 40 years earlier; it was Vespasian who took the throne as God, and his Son of man Titus aka Jesus Christ was the sword swinging warrior that made it all happen under his command.

If you study the Arch of Titus, you can see that the Scriptures are the literary version of the historic monument.

Titus fulfilled the prophecies the "fake Jesus" spoke of, therefor he MUST be the real Christ Jesus, not the one that supposedly hung on a cross 40 years earlier.

Lets go all the way back to Genesis 1:26 shall we?

"Then God said let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the live-stock, over the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground"

Question: Who is "us" and "our"? Could that be Vespasian speaking? Telling his sons and others that we will make man in our image (Romans), and he will RULE over the earth?

Catholic = Universal

Now onto :27

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them"

Now onto :28

"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground"

Pause: In verse 27, God created man ... In verse 28, he blessed them and said to them ...

So if God already created man; already blessed them instructed them to be fruitful and increase in numbers, then why in Genesis 2:5 under Adam and Eve, it says:

"there was no man to work the ground" and in 2:7 it goes on to say:

"the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and then man became a living being"

But I thought he had already created man?

Look, the Flavian's had to stop the militant-messianic Jewish movement of the day. Their God or "messiah" was David; the David that defeated Goliath. He was a warrior; a killer; he took the head off of David, and was coming to take the head off Caesar(s). The Flavian's had to 'high-jack' the Torah and the information in the Dead Sea Scrolls; the Old Testament, and twist it up; reword it and lead the text of the Old into the text of the New Testament. Nero did not like this movement of disobedient Jews to the Roman Empire and called upon Vespasian to quash it. He brought his son Titus and did just that.

The engravings on the Arch of Titus show him bringing back a copy of the Torah to the City of Rome along with the trumpets used to call the Jews to prayer; the golden lamp, etc. They used the wealth they had stolen to build the famous "Colosseum".

And again, the Million Dollar Question:

Can a REAL God have a Human Father?

Excerpt from the passage "God Disciplines His Son(s)"

NOW HERE'S THE PUNCHLINE PEOPLE!

Further down the passage in Hebrews 12:9 God (Vespasian) says:

"Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us, and we respect them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness"

Here Vespasian is stating "we have all had human fathers who disciplined us", but now that I am the true living God of Heaven (the new Jerusalem), I will discipline you for your good, so that you may share in my holiness.

Then in Hebrews 3:12 prior to that he even states:

"See to it brothers that none of you has a sinful unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God"

Do you see the Vanity?

The Million Dollar Question: Did or does a REAL God have a human father?

This is the beauty of this statement: I didn't say that; you didn't say that; Joe Atwill didn't say that; no other internet guru or biblical scholar said that; Fred Flintstone or Robert Price didn't say that.

Forget any other arguments from anyone else, and rebut the words of God Himself as written in Hebrews 12:9 above.

Who dares to rebut the words of "God" himself?

This is not Atwill's argument; it is MINE. I have never heard it brought up before (God Punishes His Sons), that God (Vespasian) admitted to having a Human Father Who Disciplined Him. If someone has brought it up before, please post it in the comment section below to correct me.

Again: Who on this board dares to question the Word Of God Himself when he states plainly and clearly in the Scriptures that he himself at one time had a Human Father That Disciplined Him?

When the Christian Community at large realizes the "God" they've been praying to, is none other than Vespasian Flavius and his "Son of man" aka "Son of God" aka "Jesus Christ" is none other than Titus Flavius, what will be the repercussions? The Roman Cult/Empire has had a strong hold on the majority of the planet for centuries, all because of their grand conspiracy to alter the messianic-militant movement of the Jewish people over 2,000 years ago.

Check Mate.

Christ never was your Lord or Savior,You were not born again of the Spirit,You did not have a personal relationship, If you lived like you have stated then you would not have spent the time to try and prove that God does not exist with this post,the heavy heart that you speak of is burdened with sin and rebellion. The only true hope for you is to repent.

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Temple reveals secrets of the one God Archaeologists believe they have uncovered origins of monotheism in northern Jordan

Stephanie Saldana Daily Star, Lebanon 5 March 2002

AMMAN: In a remote corner of Jordan, archaeologists have uncovered a room that may transform the way we think about God.

Its massive stones still clinging to the damp hills of the Jordan River Valley, the Migdol Temple at first appears to be little more than an ancient network of fortified walls. Yet when Jordanian and Australian archaeologists working at the site of ancient Pella began piecing it together in 1997, it didn't take them long to realize that they were reconstructing something extraordinary: a 3,600-year-old textbook in stone.

The Migdol Temple charts within a single room one of the most important events in human history: the transition from polytheism to the belief in one God.

Measuring an impressive 29 by 22 meters, the Migdol Temple is the largest Bronze and Iron Age Temple known to man, an enormous structure justified in its size and emotional impact to the worship of a single God, and which may at one point have functioned as a four-storey temple to the Canaanite god El. These days, however, religious and historical scholars are far less excited about the temple's size than by the magnitude of its historical importance.

Continuously in use from 1650 BC to 850 BC ,the Migdol Temple holds within it hundreds of religious artifacts that point to five very distinct phases of occupation and rebuilding.

Constructed, destroyed, and reconstructed time and time again, the Migdol Temple records changing cult practices during the Canaanite Hyksos ascendancy, then again during the Egyptian New Kingdom Empire, the Philistine Era, and the Age of the Local Kingdoms.

A stone spectator to a period of intense religious and political upheaval, every single one of the periods bruised, scarred, and left its mark on the temple, transforming the unassuming circular stones into a time capsule that is transforming the understanding of religious history.

Archaeologists have already found 250 artifacts from each of the periods of occupation, and that means that the Migdol Temple is no longer being seen as simply a temple.

Scholars are hoping that this simple stone room will help tell the story of God.

Today, a scholar with enough archeological and historical background can view the evolving layers like an epic film describing the birth of monotheism. Stephen Bourke, the University of Sydney archaeologist who has led the Pella excavations since 1992, explains that the temple allows historians to actually "read" religious history through the artifacts it left behind, such as idols and the remains of a "Holy of Holies."

"The Pella Midgol Temple, because of its many building and occupation phases, its richness in finds, effectively contains local religious history fossilized in stone," he told The Daily Star over e-mail.

Moreover, the "local religious history" in the Migdol Temple just so happens to have occurred at the same time and in the same region as the founding of religious monotheism recorded in the Old Testament. The Migdol Temple was in use during the arrival of the Israelites and the establishment of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah an event that marked the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It is in this respect that the excavations have had another bit of exciting and somewhat shocking religious history to reveal.

During the approximately 800 years of its occupation, those who used the Migdol Temple slowly changed their Bronze Age polytheistic beliefs into Iron Age "henotheistic" beliefs, a period during which officials allowed communities to believe in more than one god, but encouraged them to concentrate their veneration on one god over all others.

Known as "state monotheism," the most famous example of this change in belief is that of Yahweh in Israel. But according to Bourke, archaeological evidence is revealing that this new emphasis on one god was not reserved for the Israelites, but occurred simultaneously in several nation states throughout the Middle East, with Yahweh in Israel, Hadad in Damascus, Milkom in Amman, Chemos in Moab (in present-day Jordan) and Qos in Edom (in present-day Israel).

The newest finds at the Migdol Temple suggest that the region had its own distinct form of monotheism, and that monotheism arose in several areas of the Middle East at once in order to unify small nation-states.

"The Migdol Pella Temple evidence suggests that the pathway to national consciousness occurs in many different centers at around the same time in effectively the same way," said Bourke.

"There is nothing unique about the Israelite experience, as the same sort of development happened at the same time, all over the region. And the Pella Temple records this unfolding in northern Jordan."

And the excavations are only the beginning of Pella, a site that has slowly been transforming into an archaeological textbook of Middle Eastern history. Unlike other Roman cities that have become archaeological theme parks, excavation at Pella has continued methodically for over a century.

Described by Bourke as "Jordan's Jericho," today Pella is a contender for the title as one of the oldest inhabited cities on earth, with nearly 9,000 years of occupation, including thriving periods during the Decapolis and Byzantine eras. When excavators went to work on the Migdol Temple, they had to dig through, literally, 30 meters of ancient cities.

"The site of Pella is unique, not for its Roman columns or its Byzantine churches, but for the length of its occupation," Burke insists. With the longest sequence in Jordan, the Pella site allows archaeologists to study how human culture in a single place evolved over 10,000 years. "No other site can study history in such depth," Burke concludes. "That's why Pella matters."

Lengthy read but I found it interesting

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Temple reveals secrets of the one God Archaeologists believe they have uncovered origins of monotheism in northern Jordan

Stephanie Saldana Daily Star, Lebanon 5 March 2002

AMMAN: In a remote corner of Jordan, archaeologists have uncovered a room that may transform the way we think about God.

Its massive stones still clinging to the damp hills of the Jordan River Valley, the Migdol Temple at first appears to be little more than an ancient network of fortified walls. Yet when Jordanian and Australian archaeologists working at the site of ancient Pella began piecing it together in 1997, it didn't take them long to realize that they were reconstructing something extraordinary: a 3,600-year-old textbook in stone.

The Migdol Temple charts within a single room one of the most important events in human history: the transition from polytheism to the belief in one God.

Measuring an impressive 29 by 22 meters, the Migdol Temple is the largest Bronze and Iron Age Temple known to man, an enormous structure justified in its size and emotional impact to the worship of a single God, and which may at one point have functioned as a four-storey temple to the Canaanite god El. These days, however, religious and historical scholars are far less excited about the temple's size than by the magnitude of its historical importance.

Continuously in use from 1650 BC to 850 BC ,the Migdol Temple holds within it hundreds of religious artifacts that point to five very distinct phases of occupation and rebuilding.

Constructed, destroyed, and reconstructed time and time again, the Migdol Temple records changing cult practices during the Canaanite Hyksos ascendancy, then again during the Egyptian New Kingdom Empire, the Philistine Era, and the Age of the Local Kingdoms.

A stone spectator to a period of intense religious and political upheaval, every single one of the periods bruised, scarred, and left its mark on the temple, transforming the unassuming circular stones into a time capsule that is transforming the understanding of religious history.

Archaeologists have already found 250 artifacts from each of the periods of occupation, and that means that the Migdol Temple is no longer being seen as simply a temple.

Scholars are hoping that this simple stone room will help tell the story of God.

Today, a scholar with enough archeological and historical background can view the evolving layers like an epic film describing the birth of monotheism. Stephen Bourke, the University of Sydney archaeologist who has led the Pella excavations since 1992, explains that the temple allows historians to actually "read" religious history through the artifacts it left behind, such as idols and the remains of a "Holy of Holies."

"The Pella Midgol Temple, because of its many building and occupation phases, its richness in finds, effectively contains local religious history fossilized in stone," he told The Daily Star over e-mail.

Moreover, the "local religious history" in the Migdol Temple just so happens to have occurred at the same time and in the same region as the founding of religious monotheism recorded in the Old Testament. The Migdol Temple was in use during the arrival of the Israelites and the establishment of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah an event that marked the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It is in this respect that the excavations have had another bit of exciting and somewhat shocking religious history to reveal.

During the approximately 800 years of its occupation, those who used the Migdol Temple slowly changed their Bronze Age polytheistic beliefs into Iron Age "henotheistic" beliefs, a period during which officials allowed communities to believe in more than one god, but encouraged them to concentrate their veneration on one god over all others.

Known as "state monotheism," the most famous example of this change in belief is that of Yahweh in Israel. But according to Bourke, archaeological evidence is revealing that this new emphasis on one god was not reserved for the Israelites, but occurred simultaneously in several nation states throughout the Middle East, with Yahweh in Israel, Hadad in Damascus, Milkom in Amman, Chemos in Moab (in present-day Jordan) and Qos in Edom (in present-day Israel).

The newest finds at the Migdol Temple suggest that the region had its own distinct form of monotheism, and that monotheism arose in several areas of the Middle East at once in order to unify small nation-states.

"The Migdol Pella Temple evidence suggests that the pathway to national consciousness occurs in many different centers at around the same time in effectively the same way," said Bourke.

"There is nothing unique about the Israelite experience, as the same sort of development happened at the same time, all over the region. And the Pella Temple records this unfolding in northern Jordan."

And the excavations are only the beginning of Pella, a site that has slowly been transforming into an archaeological textbook of Middle Eastern history. Unlike other Roman cities that have become archaeological theme parks, excavation at Pella has continued methodically for over a century.

Described by Bourke as "Jordan's Jericho," today Pella is a contender for the title as one of the oldest inhabited cities on earth, with nearly 9,000 years of occupation, including thriving periods during the Decapolis and Byzantine eras. When excavators went to work on the Migdol Temple, they had to dig through, literally, 30 meters of ancient cities.

"The site of Pella is unique, not for its Roman columns or its Byzantine churches, but for the length of its occupation," Burke insists. With the longest sequence in Jordan, the Pella site allows archaeologists to study how human culture in a single place evolved over 10,000 years. "No other site can study history in such depth," Burke concludes. "That's why Pella matters."

Lengthy read but I found it interesting

and is very real.......there are a lot of places just like this ...that are not released to the public .....for just this reason ...........<:)))))

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There was another about Easter island posted by lord dinar were they recently found that the heads were actually whole figures buried in 30 plus feet of earth I'm sure what ever has taken place 4000 years ago or longer is barely been discovered or not released to the public god aside or Jesus its unfathomable for us at this time to say there isn't a higher power I personally don't rule it out but am not religious and don't go to church temple etc... but everyone is entitled to there beliefs

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