An Interview with John Jagerson

[jackster]

Sans, it disturbs me a little that you agree with me on those points.

Actually, you're correct. You don't seem to have a fanbase. So, I missed on that one.

RV theory vs LOP theory. How about RV theory vs RD theory instead?

[Sanssouci]

Sans, it disturbs me a little that you agree with me on those points.

I can't imagine why. I have seen others go at LOPsters only to succeed in stalemate. I set out to determine what makes a LOPster tick. It occurred to me that LOPsters routinely attack the belief system of RVers. So, why not attack the LOPsters' belief system, which is predicated upon a near 100% blind faith in mainstream media and government agencies? Perhaps, if they began to doubt their own "articles of faith," they would also begin to lose some of their effectiveness in "debate." It makes very little sense to debate an opponent on only his terms. Hence the seeming reluctance of anyone to "debate" John Jagerson.

RV theory vs LOP theory. How about RV theory vs RD theory instead?

An RD is a LOP.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Sanssouci

[jackster]

I can't imagine why. I have seen others go at LOPsters only to succeed in stalemate. I set out to determine what makes a LOPster tick. It occurred to me that LOPsters routinely attack the belief system of RVers. So, why not attack the LOPsters' belief system, which is predicated upon a near 100% blind faith in mainstream media and government agencies? Perhaps, if they began to doubt their own "articles of faith," they would also begin to lose some of their effectiveness in "debate." It makes very little sense to debate an opponent on only his terms. Hence the seeming reluctance of anyone to "debate" John Jagerson.

An RD is a LOP.

RD is specific. LOP is generic. A LOP can have many forms.

[Sanssouci]

RD is specific. LOP is generic. A LOP can have many forms.

Deleting the zeros is a redenomination, which is itself a "lopping" of the zeros. It is technically incorrect, as Iraqis do not have the term "lop" in their vocabulary. I capitalize "LOP" so as to incorporate the "loss of profit" assumption.

[jackster]

Deleting the zeros is a redenomination, which is itself a "lopping" of the zeros. It is technically incorrect, as Iraqis do not have the term "lop" in their vocabulary. I capitalize "LOP" so as to incorporate the "loss of profit" assumption.

Yes, it is. But a LOP is not always an RD. That's why I choose RD. It's a specific event.

If the Iraqi government decide not to accept the current dinar from overseas, that could be a LOP. But it wouldn't an RD.

Also, the term LOPster is derogatory as it is used by Pro-RVers,etc.

[Realdinar]

So the lopsters dont even know what a LOP is?

Yes, it is. But a LOP is not always an RD. That's why I choose RD. It's a specific event.

If the Iraqi government decide not to accept the current dinar from overseas, that could be a LOP. But it wouldn't an RD.

Also, the term LOPster is derogatory as it is used by Pro-RVers,etc.

Lopster, depending on the context, isnt always derogatory. Sometimes, Pro-RVers use the term to help categorize those who want the Dinar to LOP. That is not belittling, I wouldnt think.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Realdinar

[Sanssouci]

Yes, it is. But a LOP is not always an RD. That's why I choose RD. It's a specific event.

I have never heard it described this way. I presume that you choose to call it "RD," not that you actually choose RD as an outcome that would be of benefit to you or anyone, assuming that you are indeed an investor. A few who regularly inhabit LOP Talk, like Dinarck, seem to possess a great fervor for this non-beneficial outcome. That, indeed, is puzzling. As much as he likes to question my sanity, in this matter I likewise have to question his.

If the Iraqi government decide not to accept the current dinar from overseas, that could be a LOP. But it wouldn't an RD.

I can see it having that connotation, yes, but nowhere have I seen a specific indication that it would be a strictly in-country event. But then again, as you know, I reserve the right to doubt the media.

Also, the term LOPster is derogatory as it is used by Pro-RVers, etc.

Honestly, I don't know about that. I have never consciously used it in that manner. Until I joined DV, I had never even heard of the term.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Sanssouci

[DaveD]

I can see it having that connotation, yes, but nowhere have I seen a specific indication that it would be a strictly in-country event. But then again, as you know, I reserve the right to doubt the media.

Haven’t they said lately that the exchange will only be done at Iraqi banks where they have the ability to detect counterfeits? So now you can exercise your right to claim propaganda.

Not sure why Jackster thinks there is a difference between lop and redenomination. They are same thing. Lop is just a term used to describe redenomination.

I don't think when I'm called a lopster it's any more derogatory than when I call someone an RVr

[Sanssouci]

Haven’t they said lately that the exchange will only be done at Iraqi banks where they have the ability to detect counterfeits? So now you can exercise your right to claim propaganda.

And I will, thank you.

Not sure why Jackster thinks there is a difference between lop and redenomination. They are same thing. Lop is just a term used to describe redenomination.

I am doing my best to accommodate his understanding of the subject.

I don't think when I'm called a lopster it's any more derogatory than when I call someone an RVr

I don't view that term, "RVr," as derogatory at all.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Sanssouci

[jackster]

I have never heard it described this way. I presume that you choose to call it "RD," not that you actually choose RD as an outcome that would be of benefit to you or anyone, assuming that you are indeed an investor. A few who regularly inhabit LOP Talk, like Dinarck, seem to possess a great fervor for this non-beneficial outcome. That, indeed, is puzzling. As much as he likes to question my sanity, in this matter I likewise have to question his.

I can see it having that connotation, yes, but nowhere have I seen a specific indication that it would be a strictly in-country event. But then again, as you know, I reserve the right to doubt the media.

Honestly, I don't know about that. I have never consciously used it in that manner. Until I joined DV, I had never even heard of the term.

Someone posted about how Saddam's Iraq refused to accept Iraqi dinar from other countries after merchants had accepted dinar in exchange for goods. I would call that a form of a LOP.

As for derogatory intent, perhaps I am feeling more than what is actually there. Online conversations lack a person's vocal intonation. "I see that you believe that an RV will not happen." as opposed to "You're a LOPster! eeewww!". The labeling usually accompanies a condenscending tone.

LOP vs RD. The RD is specific to removing 3 zeros. A LOP can be the RD or any other form of Loss of Profit.

[keepmwlknfny]

So the lopsters dont even know what a LOP is?

Lopster, depending on the context, isnt always derogatory. Sometimes, Pro-RVers use the term to help categorize those who want the Dinar to LOP. That is not belittling, I wouldnt think.

I dont think anyone honestly WANTS it to lop....I cant see anyone who doesnt wanna make money, we all want a RV, its just that some are on the mindset of looking for proof of how or why it CANT lop and thats a bit hard to find....so they probly do focus on the RD topic alot....just trying to find answers as to why it wont work or fit in this situation....

Most can see that the value of the dinar WILL go up.....Im not doubting that myself one bit.....but its the path the CBI chooses to take to get there thats the problem and what we are speculating on....will they take the easy way out and RD? Or will they buckle down and actually work towards getting the money supply down, raising reserves and working on their GDP over time while slowly raising the value along the way?

[DaveD]

LOP vs RD. The RD is specific to removing 3 zeros. A LOP can be the RD or any other form of Loss of Profit.

Lop doesn't mean loss of profit. Lop means to lop zeros, same as drop, delete, remove, raise, erase, trim, cut, or any othe word with that same meaning.

Idiot gururs have confused people for years trying to convince them a lop is somehow different than a RD... please do not assist them.

[jackster]

Lop doesn't mean loss of profit. Lop means to lop zeros, same as drop, delete, remove, raise, erase, trim, cut, or any othe word with that same meaning.

Idiot gururs have confused people for years trying to convince them a lop is somehow different than a RD... please do not assist them.

Looks like I stand corrected. Even though i am sitting down. OK. Now I'm standing, but hunched over. This is uncomfortable. Sitting back down.

January 2010 post in DV, people are calling it "lop off the zeros".

So, it does NOT mean Loss Of Profit. Just like RV does not mean Recreational Vehicle Unless one is buying a Winnebago.

A lop is a redenomination and a redenomination is a lop. I thought that a LOP included RDs and other forms of profit-losses.

Thank you, DaveD.

I still prefer RD over "LOP". RD is more technical and has more of a superior feel to it.

[Sanssouci]

Lop doesn't mean loss of profit. Lop means to lop zeros, same as drop, delete, remove, raise, erase, trim, cut, or any other word with that same meaning.

"Loss of profit" is a meaning that may have been attached to the term after its initiation. I have mostly taken it to mean what you say.

Idiot gurus have confused people for years trying to convince them a lop is somehow different than a RD... please do not assist them.

Are you calling Jackster an "idiot guru?"

Edited July 16, 2012 by Sanssouci

[DaveD]

"Loss of profit" is a meaning that may have been attached to the term after its initiation. I have mostly taken it to mean what you say.

Are you calling Jackster an "idiot guru?"

In all my years following financial news, I have never once heard the term lop used to describe a loss of profit.

I've heard and read the term lop used to describe a currency redenomination many many time.

No... there is a big difference in the way Jackster was posting his thoughts/opinions compared to the way the gurus post as if it's a fact.

They hold themselves up to be these well informed, well researched experts. If they truly believe what they are saying then they are idiots.

I suspect they know a lot of what they say is not the truth though. That makes them deceptive scam artist.

Neither would you want to listen to for advice.

[jackster]

"Loss of profit" is a meaning that may have been attached to the term after its initiation. I have mostly taken it to mean what you say.

Are you calling Jackster an "idiot guru?"

It was ignorant of myself concerning the issue of LOP.

Loss of Profit sounded more like a financial term than "lopping" zeros. "Removing" sounds better than lopping. But that's Just My Humble Opinion. You know, JMHO.

When I'm wrong and I realize it, then I'll admit it. Besides, a little whip cream on humble pie is very filling. Goes great with coffee.

I'm not a guru, nor am I an idiot. I can see that Dave did not call me either of these.

And because of DaveD and I am smarter than I was before. And more arrogant! Now I'm a bigger know-it-all than before!!! That is, until there is something else brought up that I don't know.

[doctor robbins]

Here's how I understand the terms. A redenomination is where one currency is replaced with another. This can happen for a number of reasons. When nations converted over to the euro it was a redenomination but it wasn't a lop because zeros weren't lopped from the exchange rates. Each one had to be calculated differently for the conversion. When Brazil last redenominated they didn't simply remove zeros so you wouldn't call that a lop either. When Kuwait replaced their dinar with a new dinar after Saddam was kicked out they kept their official exchange rate so that wasn't a lop. A lop is just a redenomination where one currency is replaced with a new one with fewer zeros after a period of hyperinflation. This is what the CBI is describing.

[DaveD]

I think redenomination is just as it sounds. They issue new currency with different denominations having the same value of the old denominations. In most cases it is by 10:1, 100:1, 1000:1 or so on. But not always… as stated the Euro introduction was considered a redenomination, but each country had a different rate.

I don’t think what Kuwait did was a redenomination. It was just a re-issue. They issued a new series of notes to replace the older ones.

[Sanssouci]

In all my years following financial news, I have never once heard the term lop used to describe a loss of profit.

I've heard and read the term lop used to describe a currency redenomination many many time.

No... there is a big difference in the way Jackster was posting his thoughts/opinions compared to the way the gurus post as if it's a fact.

They hold themselves up to be these well informed, well researched experts. If they truly believe what they are saying then they are idiots.

I suspect they know a lot of what they say is not the truth though. That makes them deceptive scam artist. Neither would you want to listen to for advice.

Well, I have yet to see an "idiot guru" come right out and say, "Buy more dinar!" But it is easy to see that the intention behind what they do say is to induce more buying of dinar. To be honest, I don't feel as though they have scammed me, because it was not at their urging or advice that I purchased my "stash" of dinar. I had my $2000 worth before I even discovered the whole "gooroo" phenomenon. I look at their posts for little more than entertainment.

I think redenomination is just as it sounds. They issue new currency with different denominations having the same value of the old denominations. In most cases it is by 10:1, 100:1, 1000:1 or so on. But not always… as stated the Euro introduction was considered a redenomination, but each country had a different rate.

I don’t think what Kuwait did was a redenomination. It was just a re-issue. They issued a new series of notes to replace the older ones.

Kuwait's event was a reinstatement, or "RI."

Edited July 17, 2012 by Sanssouci

[jackster]

Well, I have yet to see an "idiot guru" come right out and say, "Buy more dinar!" But it is easy to see that the intention behind what they do say is to induce more buying of dinar. To be honest, I don't feel as though they have scammed me, because it was not at their urging or advice that I purchased my "stash" of dinar. I had my $2000 worth before I even discovered the whole "gooroo" phenomenon. I look at their posts for little more than entertainment.

Kuwait's event was a reinstatement, or "RI."

I don't know enough about RI to make a comment. But, I do know that Kuwait did not have an RV like the gurus have claimed.

[WorkerBee]

Well, I have yet to see an "idiot guru" come right out and say, "Buy more dinar!" But it is easy to see that the intention behind what they do say is to induce more buying of dinar. To be honest, I don't feel as though they have scammed me, because it was not at their urging or advice that I purchased my "stash" of dinar. I had my $2000 worth before I even discovered the whole "gooroo" phenomenon. I look at their posts for little more than entertainment.

Well sad to say I have or at. least. he encouraged it.. Frank even offered a “discount code” when purchasing. How convenient. And yet we still have members who bring over his gospel. Sad.

[DaveD]

Kuwait's event was a reinstatement, or "RI."

I hate to get into semantics here, but the Kuwait central bank didn’t reinstate anything, because nothing changed.

Kuwait had about 400 Million dinar in circulation back then. (Notice… Millions, not billions and certainly not trillions) Saddam broke into the CBI and stole billions of dinar that had never been issued. Some people panicked and sold their dinar for less than the official rate. The CBK or any Bank in Kuwait issued one single dinar at a lower rate. All the banks were closed during the entire occupation. Saddam was kicked out and one month later the Central Bank issued a new series of notes to replace the old series. They checked the serial number of all dinar exchanged and didn’t honor any of the dinar Saddam stole.

Edited July 17, 2012 by DaveD

[DaveD]

It's amazing to watch the misinformation crew at the top of the board work.

What's even more amazing is the number of people who apparently have the reading comprehension of first graders... who fall for their twisted interpretations of articles.

[RRSport]

It's amazing to watch the misinformation crew at the top of the board work.

What's even more amazing is the number of people who apparently have the reading comprehension of first graders... who fall for their twisted interpretations of articles.

Yes I used to feel like I wanted to assist them in their quest for answers in this specualtion they got involved in but some people you just cant reach.

Like Caz mentioned, its no good being like a reformed smoker preaching the virtues of a healthy life to a smoker, so I guess I think well let them think what they want.

Its just sad seeing every crazy scenario or bit of double talk waffle being lapped up by the rumor junkies.

Some people are so set in their desire for this to happen they wont entertain the thought of anything but 'Go RV!'

These will be the ones that feel their walls have come crashing down around them when Iraq finally completes its RD and they realize the smoke and mirrors was not from the CBI but all from the parties profiting (web site owners,info givers and dinar dealers).

If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes

French mathematician & philosopher (1596 - 1650)

Edited July 18, 2012 by RRSport

[Realdinar]

Yes I used to feel like I wanted to assist them in their quest for answers in this specualtion they got involved in but some people you just cant reach.

Like Caz mentioned, its no good being like a reformed smoker preaching the virtues of a healthy life to a smoker, so I guess I think well let them think what they want.

Its just sad seeing every crazy scenario or bit of double talk waffle being lapped up by the rumor junkies.

Some people are so set in their desire for this to happen they wont entertain the thought of anything but 'Go RV!'

These will be the ones that feel their walls have come crashing down around them when Iraq finally completes its RD and they realize the smoke and mirrors was not from the CBI but all from the parties profiting (web site owners,info givers and dinar dealers).

If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes

French mathematician & philosopher (1596 - 1650)

"finally completes"... Why havent they done it already like 10 years ago? Its a nwutral event that will cost 150 mil. Think about it.