Enoch 8, Enorrste, Highlander Debate from AC Website

[Psych]

The following is a commentary based on my own opinion and research and a bit of commentary on the above articles and conversations.

OK…… I have been reading this thread and it is time to clear something up.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quoting Enorrste:

“Clearly, the CBI reports to Parliament and not to the Council of Ministers. ALL parties are now in agreement on this. Only Highlander, AC, and Enoch8 seem to believe otherwise at this point.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Enorrste, who here said, that the Counsel has control over CBI? Certainly not myself, and I can’t speak for AC or Highlander, but I did not see one place, where either said that the Counsel has control over CBI as you seem to be thinking, for some strange reason.

What I did see, is that while it is certainly true, that CBI is an independent agency, of which we all agree, you seem to be working overtime, to try to prove that someone here does not think CBI is an independent agency. Why? Nobody here ever said that.

It makes me wonder if you have some kind of ax to grind or maybe some kind of agenda or personal issues to prove. Are you just spoiling for a fight?

Some of what you have done here is to prove, the very point I have always made mayself, namely, that the CBI is indeed, an independent agency, to which nobody here is disputing anyway.

Where is the argument?

Seems you really burned up a lot of energy, to prove there was an argument, where there was really, no argument, to begin with… unless…. OK…. so there seems to be a disagreement, whether or not Maliki is justified in stopping the CBI from implementing the CBI Plan?

OK….. if that is it, then this is just observation and I am not interested in proving any points here.

Some seem to feel that Maliki is a dictator and others do not. That seems to be the real issue…. and I might add, that some are hanging onto the notion, that Shabibi is this glorious white knight, who if only the evil dictators would leave him alone, would RV the Dinar and we would all be suddenly, insanely wealthy.

OK…. I get it. This is why this is such a charged issue, for a fact.

If you want to hang onto the notion that a Central Banker has a plan to make us all independently wealthy…. by all means. Go for it. Personally, I prefer to do the math rather than listen to some Dinar Donkey, sit around filibustering and misdirecting and dictating, all rational comments and misrepresenting good people, who because their views do not fit in some contrived paradigm, seem to have some form of despondent need to prove everyone wrong who does not agree with their own paradigm.

I am a realist and I could really care less if you believe me or not.

I think the real reason Steve is so set on this, is because he still thinks there is going to be an RV in 2012 and this issue, might take away some imagined notion that there is actually a window, in 2012.

Personally, I am done with Window Shopping.

If you want to continue the weekly addiction then by all means, go listen to Steve, Kappy, Okie, Frank, and many others who will gladly fill your prescription of ‘Hopium’ to fill your fantasy.

Here, I will point out, that the Phase 1, Phase 2 and Phase 3 scenario, as discussed earlier by the ‘So Called and self proclaimed, ‘Professor’, is so totally far fetched, it really does show just how willing, our good Professor given to Cherry Picking, Inductive Reasoning and believing whatever fancy, that suits him at the time.

Phase one: Is already begun and will be complete after Sept. 2012 through Jan. 2013, when the new currency will be introduced. {Notice, I said ‘Introduced’, just as was said in the article posted above. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WORD ‘INTRODUCE’ and to ‘ISSUE’. Notice neither I, nor the article said ‘ISSUE’.}

Phase 2: The CBI plan, is to Issue the new currency, (Which by the way, it is required to get an approval from the GOI, to do, as per ART 110) and at that time, I should suspect, as the CBI Plan is calling for a Re-denomination, the instructions for the exchange of Old IQD to New IQD along with a new ISO code will be issued along with whatever additional instructions for exchange ratios, of Old IQD for the New Dinar.

Phase 3: Is a 2 to 10 year plan, that involves, 2 years to remove the large denominations from circulation and replace them with digital banking accounts and probably about 25 to 30 Trillion new IQD, in lower denominations, mentioned earlier.

{There are any number of articles published at the various forums to prove this. IMO, it is a joke to post a flood of articles in this format so I will restrain from doing so.}

10 years is the decided limitations that CBI has suggested, the Old Notes can be held in international banking vaults, reserves, etc. and will be replaced, by something else of value and more than likely, by instruments, such as GOI Bonds or Securities, Cash, other potential assets, Bearer Bonds, etc. etc. and in this way, removed from circulation.

Not once, has CBI ever stated there is to be a revaluation, in the past 3 years. They have said they plan to Re-denominate.

Now, back to Maliki and Shabibi.

If you think Shabibi is going to give you your RV, you might want to consider, how over 33 Trillion IQD will be covered and at what rate.

Maybe one might also ask, if Shabibi is concerned to increase the value, he has the capacity to double the value any time he wants, yet has consistently only increased the circulation, instead of the value.

Circulating money is a liability and I guarantee, if you follow the CBI Spread Sheets, they have NOT…. I repeat…. HAVE NOT removed liquidity from circulation, but have in fact, increased it consistently every year for the past 8 years.

The facts are the facts, regardless of what you think of CBI, Maliki or what. That is not even the issue here. I mean really? Do we really want to get caught up in the same political media circus as we do here in the US? Don’t we get enough of that here?

Most of these articles are no more, than political talking points and are a total waste of productive time.

We already knew all of the stuff in these articles anyway, thank you. Who the heck cares, if Allawi’s Party thinks Maliki is a dictator or not? Certainly not I. This is utter nonsense, and many in the dinar forums buy this load of bunk, based on their own self centered delusions, that maybe Maliki might be holding up an RV.

Better get a clue, people. It is Central Bankers who will never allow the ignorant masses to have unearned money.

Politicians want to be elected.

Who pays Shabibi’s check?

Who elected him to office? Hmmm ?

Maliki happens to at least be the elected representative of the people.

So… who is more of a dictator?

Just sayin’

Central Banksters are defacto dictators…. “The Puppet Masters”

The fact is, if CBI does not have policy and legislation from Parliament, that involves the signature of the Prime Minister, by law, we will never see the CBI plan implemented at all, because it far exceeds the limit CBI is authorized to back it’s currency. But wait!!! UNLESS……

Unless the Ministry of Finance approves and allocates additional GOI Bonds and Securities as are listed on the CBI website, as part of the Monetary Plan, which can only be approved by the Legislative and Executive branches.

{I will post this document in a bit. If I forget, someone kindly remind me.}

Before I forget, Did you know the Ministry of Finance is a part of the Cabinet, IE Counsel of Ministers?

If you do not get one other word here, get this:

FACT:

Every single IQD in circulation is a liability and must be covered by CBI Law and GOI Monetary Policy.

Fact:

To increase the value from 1/10th of a cent to even 1 cent, increases the real liability, from about $30 Billion Dollars, to about $300 Billion.

To Increase it to 1 dime, increases the liability to about $3 Trillion US.

To increase it to a Dollar, increases the liability to about $30 Trillion Dollars.

Enorrste is 100% wrong, in the assessment that most of the IQD has been removed from circulation.

Look at Scooter Research for the Spread Sheets to show this.

CBI also has them.

The IMF and CIA also have such documentation.

Now…. so far, I have given you plenty of data to research this for yourselves. There is plenty of data in the forums and here, to begin your own search rather than sitting in someone’s chat room and trusting any Guru/Donk to tell you what to think.

The IQD has merely been moved outside of Iraq and is still in circulation. All they did was that the Government Banks removed 24.8 Trillion IQD from ‘Excess Liquidity’, which is to say, removed from the country, based on the amount of USD and other currencies circulating in country, as an intervention program, as advised, more than likely, by CBI. Advisory and intervantion is all part of the obligations of any Central Bank. Often that duty is performed by the Government, though the Ministry of Finance.

You can see that information in some other documents, if you wish to research it, try Bank of International Settlements, IMF, Central Bank Intervention, World Bank, for searches.

Bottom line: All Currency in circulation, MUST be covered, by the Governments and Central Banks who issue it. That is a well documented fact and can easily be researched and verified, for any who dare to do so.

Iraq does not have enough oil to cover $30 Trillion liability in the next 30 years, and even if they did…. it would still require an act of both the Legislative and Executive Branches, to do so.

They can, however create bonds and other instruments to essentially, allow other banks to pay us for our dinar.

Either way…. it will take a cooperation from the Counsel and CBI to accomplish this.

Make no mistake about it. The CBI cannot and will not give a revaluation they do not have the liquidity to cover, directly. Only the Government has that kind of asset wealth to cover the IQD with the kind of money we are talking about.

Enorrste, if you had stopped to inquire as to what either myself, Highlander or AC have suggested here, rather than running off at the mouth and chasing windmills, or some imaginary enemy of your own imagination; had you asked, you might have found, not one of us has suggested anything like, what you seem to be representing here. Maybe, you might actually learn something, if you were not so damned smart. Just maybe, if you did not come in here with guns blazing, wildly, before you even located a target, we might actually share some documentation with you.

But you already seem to have it all with your articles and know it all anyway, so I will not waste my time. I could care less.

Nobody is disputing the fact that CBI is an independent agency.

Nobody here is suggesting that it is right for the Counsel to interfere, in CBI policy, but now I will add this: So long as CBI is in fact, conducting policy that is determined by the GOI for them to implement, then there will be no need for the Executive Branch to Intervene anyway, so it is moot.

The Court Ruling was all about the Supreme Court, who is part of a system of checks and balances and just as in our own country, is who sees to it, that the Separation of Powers are always forthright.

We do know, that the CBI was in fact, given a limited independence, that is overseen by Parliament. Yes, again, nobody here is disputing that.

Here is something I think your research is lacking.

It is also the GOI, who sets monetary and fiscal policy and even approves the currency to be issued, per Article 110. That still does not contradict 103, in any way, shape or form.

But…. what that does, is provide that it is, the GOI, who sets monetary and fiscal policy and to approve the national currency.

The CBI, as an independent agency, by the direct authority of and at the pleasure of the GOI, (not only as per Art. 103 but also per CBI Law as well), “Implements” said monetary policy, which is determined by the GOI; the CBI implements it.

It is the duty of CBI to carry out and implement, and independent agency delegates the full authority of the GOI to do so.

Some seem to think that 103 and 110 are contradictory. That is simply not so. They are in fact, as upheld by the courts on Jan. 19, 2011 and defined on Jan. 26 2010, as per request of Allawi and his party, that it is the normal system of checks balances and separations of powers, and that in the event an independent agency exceeds it’s authority, failing Congressional Oversight, the Executive Branch, can in fact, step in, under warranted circumstances.

CBI cannot just do as they please with the Iraq Money Supply. They must and are held to account by Parliament, failing that, the ruling implies that the Counsel can in fact lawfully intervene.

Now….. This is not only consistent with what I happen to understand about this, but it also is quite consistent with the positions, both Highlander and Enorrste have presented…. with some exceptions, but basically, it seems to me, that Steve is just came here spoiling for a fight anyway.

See…. it was never the point AC was even referring to, in the first place….. that Maliki has some dictatorial power to interfere with CBI, nor was it even the intention of Maliki to do so, as so many seem to be so, afraid of.

Steve, you are right, in principal, that it would be wrong for Maliki, to interfere with CBI, so long as they are doing their lawful job and not overstepping their lawful boundaries as is the case with our own Central Bankers, who are a perfect example of Central Bankers run amok, without any checks and balances, In MY Opinion.

OK…… that is a long write and I can back that all up with documentation, but I am not going to do it all in one setting here.

Besides, I have published many of these articles and links often enough and so have many others here.

We will make time to do this and look forward to continuing the Series, “Dinar, Fact or Fiction” at revalue.us Friday at 8PM EST.

THis is week 10 of the 11 week series and this week we are discussing the topic, “Who Pays for the RV and How is it Paid for?”

Now…. put some bullets in them pistols, Professor.

Mere articles do not trump the facts, math, nor sound economic principal, much less real operations of Central Banking and Governments in the real world.

Time to awaken to the real world.

Wake up Dorothy! This ain’t Kansas.

Regards,

Enoch8

Edited April 20, 2012 by Bumper64
Removed link to AC's website!

[Psych]

Sorry, guess you'll have to take my word for it with no link!

[easyrider]

pretty much what i got out of this is a pissing contest. He can do all the math he wants but in the end no one knows what information they withhold from the public and its impact on their currency it can have. We wait and see and I also believe there will be an Rv in 2012 when? i dunno but sometime this year IMHO but ill, be damned to believe ennorste and the crap he spews. IMHO they are lying about how much reserves they have and yes that is a major impact on the RV.

Edited April 20, 2012 by easyrider

[Elixirbaby]

Value cannot be based what I have in the bank alone. The 30 trillion dinar isn't based on the dollar they have in the reserves alone. The value of the dinar is the value of the dinar. Not a true value as we all hope.

[Saved]

Sorry, guess you'll have to take my word for it with no link!

I tried to even you out Psych , don't know why someone would NEG you for apologizing for no link when Bumper removed it !

Thanks for posting , have a Great weekend +1

Edited April 20, 2012 by Saved

[Psych]

Really not trying to get people to dump their Dinar. I still have mine in a safe place. However, I'm not convinced anymore that the IQD is going to RV like I thought it might (although I'd be the first in line at the bank if there was a $14 rate! Heck, Id settle for a nickel even). There is a truth to this thing however, and that truth doesn't care at all about my opinion or hope. Regardless of how it pans out, this speculation has been fun!

[TimS]

If you do not get one other word here, get this:

FACT:

Every single IQD in circulation is a liability and must be covered by CBI Law and GOI Monetary Policy.

Fact:

To increase the value from 1/10th of a cent to even 1 cent, increases the real liability, from about $30 Billion Dollars, to about $300 Billion. VERY POSSIBLE AND SUPPORTABLE

To Increase it to 1 dime, increases the liability to about $3 Trillion US. ALSO POSSIBLE, BUT LESS LIKELY

To increase it to a Dollar, increases the liability to about $30 Trillion Dollars. :lmao:

Enorrste is 100% wrong, in the assessment that most of the IQD has been removed from circulation.

Look at Scooter Research for the Spread Sheets to show this.

CBI also has them.

No one has presented one stitch of evidence that shows how an RV that increases the world money in circulation value by $30 trillion can take place......that's because there isn't any.

Now, if everyone wants to believe, or rather disbelieve all the documentation that we do have access to that says there is in the neighborhood of 30 trillion dinar in circulation around the world....that's all just a matter of opinion and wishful thinking.

[truthful1]

If you do not get one other word here, get this:

FACT:

Every single IQD in circulation is a liability and must be covered by CBI Law and GOI Monetary Policy.

Fact:

To increase the value from 1/10th of a cent to even 1 cent, increases the real liability, from about $30 Billion Dollars, to about $300 Billion. VERY POSSIBLE AND SUPPORTABLE

To Increase it to 1 dime, increases the liability to about $3 Trillion US. ALSO POSSIBLE, BUT LESS LIKELY

To increase it to a Dollar, increases the liability to about $30 Trillion Dollars. :lmao:

Enorrste is 100% wrong, in the assessment that most of the IQD has been removed from circulation.

Look at Scooter Research for the Spread Sheets to show this.

CBI also has them.

No one has presented one stitch of evidence that shows how an RV that increases the world money in circulation value by $30 trillion can take place......that's because there isn't any.

Now, if everyone wants to believe, or rather disbelieve all the documentation that we do have access to that says there is in the neighborhood of 30 trillion dinar in circulation around the world....that's all just a matter of opinion and wishful thinking.

Tim, your on fire today, with the blazing facts.

[Retiredofficer]

pretty much what i got out of this is a pissing contest. He can do all the math he wants but in the end no one knows what information they withhold from the public and its impact on their currency it can have. We wait and see and I also believe there will be an Rv in 2012 when? i dunno but sometime this year IMHO but ill, be damned to believe ennorste and the crap he spews. IMHO they are lying about how much reserves they have and yes that is a major impact on the RV.

So I understand that you have no love loss with Enorrste; do you find yourself agreeing with anything Enoch 8 just laid out. Just curious. I appreciate your patience in my prying.

R.O.

[jeepguy]

my thinking ---- what ever they are busting a gut about -- { must be the c.b.i. and self -rule } my thinking is the iraqi whom, ever is in charge of getting the currency up too a rate ,,, they are looking at the old rates even before sad-dam {mad as backwards } it was close too 3.oo dollars not saying they will get even close too this right out of the gates but --- they are thinking about what is bringing this cash flow to them ,, after all the debts are paid,,, most likely start in the low numbers ,, 20 too 50 ,,,, lets not fool our selfs ,,they might even start at .05 too .20 ,,,, they have too get every one on board with this change they are about too go through when ever that will be??? talking about better than the u.s.dollar, too start out ,,would be good,, but probably not... we are still in the window of now till september ,,, nothing then ,,,, we are in for a long haul,,,, {another 2 years ??? } hard too tell these guys in iraq are in the time zone of a snails pace,,, and with that said they still will take a long time too get the goverment on line with all seats finished---if they don`t throw everyone out of office first and start again,, the only way they can save their butts now ----> get the currency too a value we shall see soon hopefully

[MANNY99]

If you do not get one other word here, get this:

FACT:

Every single IQD in circulation is a liability and must be covered by CBI Law and GOI Monetary Policy.

Fact:

To increase the value from 1/10th of a cent to even 1 cent, increases the real liability, from about $30 Billion Dollars, to about $300 Billion. VERY POSSIBLE AND SUPPORTABLE

To Increase it to 1 dime, increases the liability to about $3 Trillion US. ALSO POSSIBLE, BUT LESS LIKELY

To increase it to a Dollar, increases the liability to about $30 Trillion Dollars. :lmao:

Enorrste is 100% wrong, in the assessment that most of the IQD has been removed from circulation.

Look at Scooter Research for the Spread Sheets to show this.

CBI also has them.

No one has presented one stitch of evidence that shows how an RV that increases the world money in circulation value by $30 trillion can take place......that's because there isn't any.

Now, if everyone wants to believe, or rather disbelieve all the documentation that we do have access to that says there is in the neighborhood of 30 trillion dinar in circulation around the world....that's all just a matter of opinion and wishful thinking.

Very good point Tim and your math is right but remeber they don't need 100% back up. they need only 10-15% like the rest of the world

[keepmwlknfny]

Very good point Tim and your math is right but remeber they don't need 100% back up. they need only 10-15% like the rest of the world

I believe your talking bout the commercial level reserve requirements....much different then the CBIs requirements to back the value of the dinar...especially being a pegged currency....

They unfortunately rely HEAVILY on the amount of reserves they hold......

[SnowGlobe7]

evened you out keep...and i agree the reserves are heavily relied on....for many things

[HopefulTxn]

So I understand that you have no love loss with Enorrste; do you find yourself agreeing with anything Enoch 8 just laid out. Just curious. I appreciate your patience in my prying.

R.O.

No love lost for Ennorste???

What could be meant by that, when TWO YEARS ago he stated that ships were piling up offshore waiting to unload their wares because the RV was imminent (they would not unload til the RV was done)???

Surely people don't remember that little tidbit (or any other BS statement he has made) and wonder if Ennorste has ANY clue whatsoever as to what he speaks of... :lol:

Enoch8 has made his own fodder in the forums and is a completely different subject to (laugh) talk about... :lol:

Edited April 21, 2012 by HopefulTxn

[doctor robbins]

Enorrste's commentary on the dinar is about as spot on as TerryK's intel. Just read his book and you'll know that he's not playing with a full deck.