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February 26, a 17 year old boy was walking home - Trayvon Martin


mojack
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When I see a person with 1 domestic abuse violation after which they leave the person they were involved with I see a smart person. More often people stay with their partners and keep abusing each other. Lets face it, no matter what happened with his girl he is going to get charged even is she was beating on him.

Also if the fighting with officer was at the same time I can see being upset that you are getting arrested because your woman was beating on you which happens much more then people realize.

As I assess the available information on both parties I see Zimmerman still more as the likely victim. I agree that as a teen if an adult asked me a question about why I was in a area (even my own neighborhood) I simply would have answered even if it was a smart answer.

Jumping on someone and beating them for questioning you is very thug. That is inescapable. While having 1 domestic abuse on your record could have reasonable doubt as to someone being an instigator.

Of course this is all based on current information and further information will show the truth of the matter.

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I checked out the link; paints a nasty picture of Martin. If that article is true the kid had issues.

Still can't see how an immediate arrest is not made on the spot. Thought it was standard procedure of investigation.

An officer can't just "immediately" arrest someone unless they witness a crime being committed or the situation they arrive upon gives them immediate "probable cause" to make an arrest. With Florida's new law and the condition the police found Martin in (bloodied up), along with corroborating witnesses to back up Martin's statement, they didn't have enough probable cause (pc) to make an arrest. If they had arrested him and it was found that were was no pc, the department would be open for a false arrest suit. It appears that he was detained long enough for them to get his statement and that of some witnesses who's account supported Zimmerman's statement. At that point they determined that they didn't have enough pc to make the arrest.

Don't have time to explain the legal definition of pc. You should be able to google it to check it out.

Regards

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An officer can't just "immediately" arrest someone unless they witness a crime being committed or the situation they arrive upon gives them immediate "probable cause" to make an arrest. With Florida's new law and the condition the police found Martin in (bloodied up), along with corroborating witnesses to back up Martin's statement, they didn't have enough probable cause (pc) to make an arrest. If they had arrested him and it was found that were was no pc, the department would be open for a false arrest suit. It appears that he was detained long enough for them to get his statement and that of some witnesses who's account supported Zimmerman's statement. At that point they determined that they didn't have enough pc to make the arrest.

Don't have time to explain the legal definition of pc. You should be able to google it to check it out.

Regards

Thanks, you took the words out of my mouth...People think that police officers can just go around arresting people without probable cause (pc) that just blows my mind. We have a lot of wannabe's attorneys and cops on this case. Just remember theres two sides to every story.. :D

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Thanks, you took the words out of my mouth...People think that police officers can just go around arresting people without probable cause (pc) that just blows my mind. We have a lot of wannabe's attorneys and cops on this case. Just remember theres two sides to every story.. :D

@Stargazer I can go along with your explanation.

@Mrref - probable cause can easily be found in a killing, at least temporarily. Is there a higher offense? A bit conceited if you're thinking your view is, as you put it, any less attorney and cop like.

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@Stargazer I can go along with your explanation.

@Mrref - probable cause can easily be found in a killing, at least temporarily. Is there a higher offense? A bit conceited if you're thinking your view is, as you put it, any less attorney and cop like.

So what is your question????

Edited by mrref
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As I read these various posts I am learning a great deal about many who are on this site. It is clear that many on here have an agenda that trayvon was totally innocent and Zimmerman needs to hang. There are others who are saying that Trayvon needs to accept some of his own responsibility in that he was an unknown person in an area that had a neighborhood watch and he was noticed as being someone who normally was not a member of the community. Since Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch that he had a right to follow and observe while being on the phone to 911. Other are saying how Zimmerman had a 'history' of abuse and was wrong in what he did and was covered up by his father who was a judge. I am amazed and somewhat amused as I read all the emotion and then how I get blasted for not showing emotion about an 'innocent' boy getting shot. And then there are those who blame the guns. People love to get worked up over things they have no input yet are experts.

Because of all the emotion over this thing there is now a totally innocent couple whose only crime was to live in the location that Spike Lee tweeted as being the address of Zimmerman. Floridia is an emotional minefield where, regardless of the law, Zimmerman is a dead man as soon as he comes out of hiding. The parents of Trayvon having been meeting with politicians for who knows what that is only going to mess up an already fouled up situation. If you are wanting to wade into legal areas, you must leave emotion at the door. So many on here have done nothing more but support the Black Panthers and all those who have placed bounties on the head of Zimmerman. So many experts on here have already convicted Zimmerman as guilty without really looking at the law and just seeing a 'poor innocent little black boy walking to his fathers carrying Skittles'. Based upon posts that some people have written regarding other issues on this site it is clear that an agenda of their own exists and that their extreme prejudice opinions are clear as they hang the evil Empire of Zimmerman against the 'poor black boy'.

Law is non-emotional. Law is simple. I have learned many things about many people. Some on here are able to look at the case and keep an open mind. These people receive my full respect. Others on here are nothing more than those carrying the rope for the lynch mob and then would sit back after it was done. And, if the person lynched proved to have been innocent they would be the same people who would declare their shock over those who hung an innocent man.

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As I read these various posts I am learning a great deal about many who are on this site. It is clear that many on here have an agenda that trayvon was totally innocent and Zimmerman needs to hang. There are others who are saying that Trayvon needs to accept some of his own responsibility in that he was an unknown person in an area that had a neighborhood watch and he was noticed as being someone who normally was not a member of the community. Since Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch that he had a right to follow and observe while being on the phone to 911. Other are saying how Zimmerman had a 'history' of abuse and was wrong in what he did and was covered up by his father who was a judge. I am amazed and somewhat amused as I read all the emotion and then how I get blasted for not showing emotion about an 'innocent' boy getting shot. And then there are those who blame the guns. People love to get worked up over things they have no input yet are experts.

Because of all the emotion over this thing there is now a totally innocent couple whose only crime was to live in the location that Spike Lee tweeted as being the address of Zimmerman. Floridia is an emotional minefield where, regardless of the law, Zimmerman is a dead man as soon as he comes out of hiding. The parents of Trayvon having been meeting with politicians for who knows what that is only going to mess up an already fouled up situation. If you are wanting to wade into legal areas, you must leave emotion at the door. So many on here have done nothing more but support the Black Panthers and all those who have placed bounties on the head of Zimmerman. So many experts on here have already convicted Zimmerman as guilty without really looking at the law and just seeing a 'poor innocent little black boy walking to his fathers carrying Skittles'. Based upon posts that some people have written regarding other issues on this site it is clear that an agenda of their own exists and that their extreme prejudice opinions are clear as they hang the evil Empire of Zimmerman against the 'poor black boy'.

Law is non-emotional. Law is simple. I have learned many things about many people. Some on here are able to look at the case and keep an open mind. These people receive my full respect. Others on here are nothing more than those carrying the rope for the lynch mob and then would sit back after it was done. And, if the person lynched proved to have been innocent they would be the same people who would declare their shock over those who hung an innocent man.

well said, I to was reading and getting sick to my stomach how many where convicting based on little or no evidence. god help us all.

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well said, I to was reading and getting sick to my stomach how many where convicting based on little or no evidence. god help us all.

I know those folk. Always saying "Wake up America!", "Stop being sheep!", "time for your shearing"......yet, all seem to be part of the same HERD. Yeah, I know those folk. ;)

GO RV, then BV

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As I read these various posts I am learning a great deal about many who are on this site. It is clear that many on here have an agenda that trayvon was totally innocent and Zimmerman needs to hang. There are others who are saying that Trayvon needs to accept some of his own responsibility in that he was an unknown person in an area that had a neighborhood watch and he was noticed as being someone who normally was not a member of the community. Since Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch that he had a right to follow and observe while being on the phone to 911. Other are saying how Zimmerman had a 'history' of abuse and was wrong in what he did and was covered up by his father who was a judge. I am amazed and somewhat amused as I read all the emotion and then how I get blasted for not showing emotion about an 'innocent' boy getting shot. And then there are those who blame the guns. People love to get worked up over things they have no input yet are experts.

Because of all the emotion over this thing there is now a totally innocent couple whose only crime was to live in the location that Spike Lee tweeted as being the address of Zimmerman. Floridia is an emotional minefield where, regardless of the law, Zimmerman is a dead man as soon as he comes out of hiding. The parents of Trayvon having been meeting with politicians for who knows what that is only going to mess up an already fouled up situation. If you are wanting to wade into legal areas, you must leave emotion at the door. So many on here have done nothing more but support the Black Panthers and all those who have placed bounties on the head of Zimmerman. So many experts on here have already convicted Zimmerman as guilty without really looking at the law and just seeing a 'poor innocent little black boy walking to his fathers carrying Skittles'. Based upon posts that some people have written regarding other issues on this site it is clear that an agenda of their own exists and that their extreme prejudice opinions are clear as they hang the evil Empire of Zimmerman against the 'poor black boy'.

Law is non-emotional. Law is simple. I have learned many things about many people. Some on here are able to look at the case and keep an open mind. These people receive my full respect. Others on here are nothing more than those carrying the rope for the lynch mob and then would sit back after it was done. And, if the person lynched proved to have been innocent they would be the same people who would declare their shock over those who hung an innocent man.

Well said, Desimo!

I am having a hard time with reading and listening to all the hype that is being spread by the media, as well as on this sight. People are making snap judgements on this situation and applying guilt and innocense like it must be done by public opinion rather then thru the court system. I say step back and let the local law enforcement along with all the other federal agencies that are now involved get to the bottom of this. The only thing that all this rhetoric back and forth is accomplishing is to get people inflamed and cause more racial divide in our country. Believe it or not there are those that make a living off of racial tension and flock to situations like this to keep it alive in our country.

I refuse to judge either the young mans actions or the older mans actions based on what the media says. I know from personal experience having been at a crime scene and later watching the media tell the "story" how innacurate they can be sometimes thru miss communication and also thru sensationalism. Lets face it, the truth doesn't always sell very good just on it's own.

I heard through the media that the young man was on his cell phone while Zimmerman was following him. I also heard that Zimmerman was on his cell phone with 911. Did the frightened young man call 911 also because he was being followed by some guy? There are many unanswered questions that need to be brought to light and in due time they will be. Please withhold judgement on this situation until all the facts come to light. I would rather the investigation be thorough and concise. The young man is dead and nothing will bring him back. We have time to make sure of the facts before going any further. There is no statute of limitations on murder.

We can't trust our emotions to allow us to see this situation clearly.

An American boy died tragically young in this incident, to me race is irrelevant. I mourn that death and feel for the family. I would hope the media would report any child's death regardless of race, but sadly I know that is not the case. A Black man killing a black child or a White man killing a white child doesn't sell...no less tragic none the less.

Bill

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Well said, Desimo!

I am having a hard time with reading and listening to all the hype that is being spread by the media, as well as on this sight. People are making snap judgements on this situation and applying guilt and innocense like it must be done by public opinion rather then thru the court system. I say step back and let the local law enforcement along with all the other federal agencies that are now involved get to the bottom of this. The only thing that all this rhetoric back and forth is accomplishing is to get people inflamed and cause more racial divide in our country. Believe it or not there are those that make a living off of racial tension and flock to situations like this to keep it alive in our country.

I refuse to judge either the young mans actions or the older mans actions based on what the media says. I know from personal experience having been at a crime scene and later watching the media tell the "story" how innacurate they can be sometimes thru miss communication and also thru sensationalism. Lets face it, the truth doesn't always sell very good just on it's own.

We can't trust our emotions to allow us to see this situation clearly.

Bill

I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thread has been really civil for the majority by leaving out race and has not ignited any racial division or lynch mob mentalities. Not emotionally driven and not offensive.

People have posted stories of Zimmerman's and Martin's backgrounds and commented on their beliefs of justice. That's what forums do.

The only issue being raised by higher law officials, as well as folks on this thread, is perhaps there is a relaxed judicial process in Sanford. Relaxed or misinterpretation of the judicial process of self defense that some thought may have been race related.

I think this group has spoken their piece and now waiting on the system.

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I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thread has been really civil for the majority by leaving out race and has not ignited any racial division or lynch mob mentalities. Not emotionally driven and not offensive.

People have posted stories of Zimmerman's and Martin's backgrounds and commented on their beliefs of justice. That's what forums do.

The only issue being raised by higher law officials, as well as folks on this thread, is perhaps there is a relaxed judicial process in Sanford. Relaxed or misinterpretation of the judicial process of self defense that some thought may have been race related.

I think this group has spoken their piece and now waiting on the system.

Sorry sir but I disagree. I personally read every post made after your initial post and have seen many responses calling for incarceration of Zimmerman, naming him a murderer and such. If you already feel that Zimmerman is guilty based on what you have heard, then I feel you are in error. When I say, "you", I am referring to everyone. We haven't seen all the facts in this matter. We are being fed piece meal the medias bias opionion of the facts, that is all. The absence of information is not the same as no information existing.

I am not defending Zimmerman nor am I defending Martin. The whole situation is sad and I do hope that justice is done in the end. But I do want justice and not revenge. If Zimmerman is exconerated by the facts in this case then I know that I will have a clear concience by having not publicly accused him of guilt because of all the rumor and innuendo that I have heard and read in the media. If in fact he was acting in self defense then so be it. I still don't agree with his actions leading up to the 911 call. He should have been passive in his "patrol" of his neighborhood in the first place. But that doesn't take away from Trayvon's wrong doing if the facts show Trayvon attacked him while he was leaving to his vehicle. In that case they were both wrong and they both made bad decisions that night.

If Zimmerman is found to be guilty then I want him to be tried by a jury of his peers and having been found guilty, to pay the price according to our laws.

Edited by billbill
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If anyones intrested heres the official police response. Its a pretty good read

Fellow Citizens:

There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George

Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has

caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region

and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy

and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only

image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going through. The City of Sanford is

committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has

contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.

In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on

the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently

asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that

since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what

information it can publicly release.

The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt

sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of

anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As

this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to

some of the most frequently asked questions.

Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?

When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr.

Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time

was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law

enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and

circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an

arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the

arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in

bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

According to Florida Statute 776.032 :

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use

of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s.

776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is

justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action

for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law

enforcement officer, as defined in s.

943.10(14), who was acting in the performance

of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance

with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have

known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the

term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or

prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the

use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the

person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the

force that was used was unlawful.

Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?

There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and

for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the

subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the

investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the

State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio

recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific

information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the

investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may

compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes

have since been released.

Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the

role of a neighborhood watch member?

Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida.

He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida

Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a

neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.

They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training

provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations

stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of

those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the

situation.

Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by

carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal

errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the

Sanford Police Department.

If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be

considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you

following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do

that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be

required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and

was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by

Trayvon.

Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has

a prior arrest history?

In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to

him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the

investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We

are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this

event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.

What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?

Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the

Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the

evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we

have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.

The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of

this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the

State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.

Al

though the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me

assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically

affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the

questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience,

understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community

We trust that this information is helpful to you.

Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM

City Manager

March 23, 2012

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I know those folk. Always saying "Wake up America!", "Stop being sheep!", "time for your shearing"......yet, all seem to be part of the same HERD. Yeah, I know those folk. ;)

GO RV, then BV

Uh...No! <_<

Not all, as you say, were following the media herd.

Now your being biased.

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@Stargazer I can go along with your explanation.

@Mrref - probable cause can easily be found in a killing, at least temporarily. Is there a higher offense? A bit conceited if you're thinking your view is, as you put it, any less attorney and cop like.

A little more information came out today that, to me, sheds some insight in this case. The Special Prosecutor in the case released to the press that the Sanford Police Dept. had originally submitted a request for an arrest warrant on Zimmerman to the local DA for manslaughter. They did not get approval for that warrant. The Special Prosecutor would not release any more information than that.

This tells me that with the new law, the Police Department was unsure with how to proceed and submitted the arrest warrant request for 2 purposes. First to get input from the DA's office and 2nd to document that process so that they could show that they "officially" made an attempt to arrest Zimmerman (in other words CYA). This was actually a smart move by the department. Note that the Special Prosecutor would not comment on the DA's response to the police request but, the fact that the DA did not approve the arrest warrant speaks volumes.

My bet is that the Special Prosecutor is simply going to finish their investigation and put the facts of the case together in the best way possible and submit it to the Grand Jury and see if anything sticks. To me, the key to how this turns out is what did Zimmerman do after the dispatcher advised him to discontinue following Martin. If it can be proven that Zimmerman stopped & was heading back to his vehicle as he says, then things will go in his favor legally. If it can be proven that he ignored the dispatcher's advice then, chances are he would receive some punishment. If neither can be proven then who knows? One thing that seems probable, either way, his chances for long term survival seem slim.

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A little more information came out today that, to me, sheds some insight in this case. The Special Prosecutor in the case released to the press that the Sanford Police Dept. had originally submitted a request for an arrest warrant on Zimmerman to the local DA for manslaughter. They did not get approval for that warrant. The Special Prosecutor would not release any more information than that.

This tells me that with the new law, the Police Department was unsure with how to proceed and submitted the arrest warrant request for 2 purposes. First to get input from the DA's office and 2nd to document that process so that they could show that they "officially" made an attempt to arrest Zimmerman (in other words CYA). This was actually a smart move by the department. Note that the Special Prosecutor would not comment on the DA's response to the police request but, the fact that the DA did not approve the arrest warrant speaks volumes.

My bet is that the Special Prosecutor is simply going to finish their investigation and put the facts of the case together in the best way possible and submit it to the Grand Jury and see if anything sticks. To me, the key to how this turns out is what did Zimmerman do after the dispatcher advised him to discontinue following Martin. If it can be proven that Zimmerman stopped & was heading back to his vehicle as he says, then things will go in his favor legally. If it can be proven that he ignored the dispatcher's advice then, chances are he would receive some punishment. If neither can be proven then who knows? One thing that seems probable, either way, his chances for long term survival seem slim.

Good post!

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Eyewitnesses confirmed trayvon beating zimmerman.......self defense people......

was trayvon shot in the back??? If so you you might have a case. the police will easily identify where the bullet entered. the police have not charged zimmerman, so theres no evidence trayvon was victimized.

Hes not a little boy....hes a seventeen year old man....lets callit what it is.

i dontknow how it went down....but imo tryvon was probably like f this guy, hes a rent a cop, citizen on patrol......and didnt like being watched or followed....then decided to put the beat down onthis guy...and ends up getting shot. zimmermanshouldof let the police handle the issue, but he has every rightto defend himself.

its amazingthat a guy who volunteersfor his community and cares about peoples security and well being......is being targeted without any evidence. peopleare calling him a racist and want him arrested.

Tryvon obviously had conduct issues, but lets blame the guy who worked the streets and passed over thoisands of black people without ever a report of any wrongdoing by zimmerman. But its political...any chance to throw the race card out...and herecomes jeesse and ole al

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A little more information came out today that, to me, sheds some insight in this case. The Special Prosecutor in the case released to the press that the Sanford Police Dept. had originally submitted a request for an arrest warrant on Zimmerman to the local DA for manslaughter. They did not get approval for that warrant. The Special Prosecutor would not release any more information than that.

This tells me that with the new law, the Police Department was unsure with how to proceed and submitted the arrest warrant request for 2 purposes. First to get input from the DA's office and 2nd to document that process so that they could show that they "officially" made an attempt to arrest Zimmerman (in other words CYA). This was actually a smart move by the department. Note that the Special Prosecutor would not comment on the DA's response to the police request but, the fact that the DA did not approve the arrest warrant speaks volumes.

My bet is that the Special Prosecutor is simply going to finish their investigation and put the facts of the case together in the best way possible and submit it to the Grand Jury and see if anything sticks. To me, the key to how this turns out is what did Zimmerman do after the dispatcher advised him to discontinue following Martin. If it can be proven that Zimmerman stopped & was heading back to his vehicle as he says, then things will go in his favor legally. If it can be proven that he ignored the dispatcher's advice then, chances are he would receive some punishment. If neither can be proven then who knows? One thing that seems probable, either way, his chances for long term survival seem slim.

"either way,his chances for long term survival seem slim" WOW! Now that speaks volumes of today's society.

Good post!

MoJack-Did u read the last sentence of the post? If so how is that a "Good post!"?

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"either way,his chances for long term survival seem slim" WOW! Now that speaks volumes of today's society.

MoJack-Did u read the last sentence of the post? If so how is that a "Good post!"?

Most certainly read it Caz.... It was the only questionable part BUT it could also mean his life will not be the same... not necessarily by the influence of BP.... but this kind of thing could haunt him forever. So I may have been a bit appeasing but the results I believe are the same. Know what I mean?

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Most certainly read it Caz.... It was the only questionable part BUT it could also mean his life will not be the same... not necessarily by the influence of BP.... but this kind of thing could haunt him forever. So I may have been a bit appeasing but the results I believe are the same. Know what I mean?

Yes sir I know what u mean and I hope thats what Stargazer meant. Best to all

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"either way,his chances for long term survival seem slim" WOW! Now that speaks volumes of today's society.

MoJack-Did u read the last sentence of the post? If so how is that a "Good post!"?

"WOW! Now that speaks volumes of today's society." No, just for those who've put a bounty out on him and those who won't stop it.

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The experience of Trayvon Martin is not a "race case" or a chance for anyone to throw out the "race card" as has been alluded to in this thread.

It's a "human rights" issue.

It's an opportunity for reflection, self-examination, truth-telling and ultimately healing. The Law is without emotion and Justice is blind, but those who interpret the Law and mete out Justice are neither blind or without emotion. We are all shaped by our environments and our experience of socialization. "Tribalism and bias" is natural. What is not natural, it to deny that we are influenced by them.

Despite whatever facts have come to light in this case, it is clear that those biases played a part in this young man's tragic death. Perception is reality. Whatever anyone sees when they look at a Trayvon Martin or a Zimmerman is filtered through these imperfect lenses.

What we cannot allow, is that these biases take us to the place where we can no longer make conscious choices about the value of another's life. We must hold all life dear and seek to preserve it wherever possible. Whenever we look at another no matter what their race, gender or sexual preference...we must see ourselves.

We could throw around terms like; "institutionalized racism, the race card, the blacks, the whites, the hispanics...all day long and it would not change the fact that a 17 year old boy (not man) is dead and Zimmerman's family has also lost a beloved son.

For those of you courageous enough to take the opportunity...Let the healing begin. Healing is the application of love to all the wounded places. And baby, are we wounded.

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