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THE $50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES......


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Why? Why would they be able to revalue just as quickly? If that were the case then why didnt Venezuela RV overnight? Why doesnt any country RV out of a hyperinflated state overnight? The answer is because it is impossible and the whole concept of an overnight RV of 1000 times the currenct value was never a reality. It was made up long ago and has been pumped to 1000s and have many convinced.

Why is Iraq in a unique situation? They are in the same situation that countless countries have found themselves in and most of them RDed. The ones that didnt still use their hyperinflated currency. If you dont believe me then dont take my word for it. Look up any country that has EVER RVed out of a hyperinflated state. You wont find one. Once again the pumpers have done a great job of convincing everyone that Iraq is special and are the richest country ever blah blah blah. They are just another country and regardless how much oil they have they cannot do the impossible. Period. The whole Bush said argument is silly. It means nothing. Future oil deals and access to their oil feilds was reason enough state the war would pay for itself if he ever said that which I doubt.

So 60 trillion M2 and Iraqis using 25,000 notes to buy shoes isnt a hyperinflated state? Like I said earlier. People dont really understand the whole hyperinflated state thing.

I gave you my opinion.....I believe this is a unique situation precisely because of the U.S. involvement in Iraq, from deposing Saddam to helping in nation building.....reminiscent of Germany after WW2....anyway, it is my opinion. Just what are your thoughts about the Dinar's future....a straight LOP I assume? Do you own dinars? Do you see any upside to this investment?

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THE $50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES The last topic went well. Lots of reasonably cordial give and take. It would be nice if it weren’t relegated to a “lop” section where too few of those who need t

Another spot on post Legolas. Really there is absolutley no way that there could EVER be a 100,000% overnight RV. It is economically impossible. First of all massive hyperinflation would be the only r

DINARK!! I'm sorry it took me more than two hours to reply...it took nearly an hour just to type this so that it FULLY answered ( ?) the questions you asked me. Oy...I've really commited myself,

So 60 trillion M2 and Iraqis using 25,000 notes to buy shoes isnt a hyperinflated state? Like I said earlier. People dont really understand the whole hyperinflated state thing.

Maybe you're using a different definition of Hyperinflation than everyone else? Do you have a source that has characteristics of hyperinflation that matches what you see happening in Iraq? If so, would you please provide the link and the characteristics in that link you say Iraq is showing?

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Maybe you're using a different definition of Hyperinflation than everyone else? Do you have a source that has characteristics of hyperinflation that matches what you see happening in Iraq? If so, would you please provide the link and the characteristics in that link you say Iraq is showing?

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When did I ever say Iraq was in hyperinflation? I said a jillion times that their currency is in a hyperinflated state. You know the dinar that we hold that we were able to by for pennies on the dollar.

I gave you my opinion.....I believe this is a unique situation precisely because of the U.S. involvement in Iraq, from deposing Saddam to helping in nation building.....reminiscent of Germany after WW2....anyway, it is my opinion. Just what are your thoughts about the Dinar's future....a straight LOP I assume? Do you own dinars? Do you see any upside to this investment?

Hummm.... what happened to Germany? They had a redenomination. I dont need to explain why I am here or if I hold dinars. Read up alittle in this section. All those answers will come to you. There will be no upside if they redenominate the currency. If they dont then maybe far down the line.

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When did I ever say Iraq was in hyperinflation? I said a jillion times that their currency is in a hyperinflated state. You know the dinar that we hold that we were able to by for pennies on the dollar.

Hummm.... what happened to Germany? They had a redenomination. I dont need to explain why I am here or if I hold dinars. Read up alittle in this section. All those answers will come to you. There will be no upside if they redenominate the currency. If they dont then maybe far down the line.

Sorry I got under your skin.....I know that Germany had a re-denomination...........that was financially beneficial for all previous Deutschmark holders...I see this investment as an opportunity with very little downside risk and potentially small to tremendous upside gain. I rarely hang out here in the LOP section, because I don't understand why you are here. I have invested my money and time in this, and I don't need to be told why I made a mistake or why my opinion is invalid. I don't buy into the opinions of Okie (at one end) or the lopsters (at the other end). I am here to try to glean the latest and continue to learn. I actually get your concern about the currency, M2, etc.....and I have been in this probably longer than you. But, for my cited reasons, primarily the tremendous U.S. involvement in Iraq, I believe that an RV first is still a very real possibility.....and not at $12 or $4. Anyway, I won't hang in this section much more....too one-sided (hence the LOP Talk Title).

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Sorry I got under your skin.....I know that Germany had a re-denomination...........that was financially beneficial for all previous Deutschmark holders...I see this investment as an opportunity with very little downside risk and potentially small to tremendous upside gain. I rarely hang out here in the LOP section, because I don't understand why you are here. I have invested my money and time in this, and I don't need to be told why I made a mistake or why my opinion is invalid. I don't buy into the opinions of Okie (at one end) or the lopsters (at the other end). I am here to try to glean the latest and continue to learn. I actually get your concern about the currency, M2, etc.....and I have been in this probably longer than you. But, for my cited reasons, primarily the tremendous U.S. involvement in Iraq, I believe that an RV first is still a very real possibility.....and not at $12 or $4. Anyway, I won't hang in this section much more....too one-sided (hence the LOP Talk Title).

Wonder how Deutschmark holders benefited when it was a 1 to 1 exchange. Plus there were no previous DM holders because it was created on June 20th 1948. They also exchanged 1 to 10. In other words you would have to give ten units of your currency just to get one new one. Were exactly did speculators profit here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mark

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Sad indictment of our society that the Loptalk thread seems to host the smartest minds on this entire forum but where the action is, rumor section, is filled with some of the most mind boggling nonsense that most toddlers would probably laugh at.

Its a simple case of people choosing what they want to believe.

I would argue that 80%+ of the posters in the rumor section wouldn't pass economics 101 but are clinging on for dear life to any rumor that will confirm this idea that they will be very rich soon.

While my humanist side hopes that they are right and their situation improves for the better very soon the reality,logic and economics seem to point to any other that a straight out RV of previously unseen proportions.

Another thing of note is how most of the argument and insults happen in the rumor section, where as mentioned above, is hardly the ground walked by intellectual giants.

The retorts that come from many there range from the strange to the bizarre.

Classic lines like 'why are you here on a dinar forum then?' and 'go away negative bashers you're ruining our buzz'.

After some time I am convinced these people do not wish to be convinced or hear anything other than how rich they are about to be.

Once this thing plays out I fear there are going to be some very disillusioned and depressed people floating about.

Hey webup. I think I can speak for all of the inmates here at Lopster Penitentiary when I say thanks, not only for visiting, but for attempting to bring reality to the Rumors Forum, difficult as that may be. It really is good to know that gradually at least, more people are beginning to understand basic economic principles and grasp what we're trying so hard to explain. None of us are economists, but this really IS simple Economics 101. I guess I have a difficult time understanding why more people don't get it when it's been repeatedly explained in such simple terms, but you presented the situation well. I've said it before, but it's nice to know that others see it as well. Most people only hear what they want to hear, and very easily block out what they don't want to comprehend. :huh:

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Wonder how Deutschmark holders benefited when it was a 1 to 1 exchange. Plus there were no previous DM holders because it was created on June 20th 1948. They also exchanged 1 to 10. In other words you would have to give ten units of your currency just to get one new one. Were exactly did speculators profit here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mark

Correction. I read that wrong. You would get 10 DM for each until of your currency but only in private non-bank credit balance, with half frozen.

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I think I can speak for all of the inmates here at Lopster Penitentiary

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Thinking of that makes me cringe each and every time.. It's just not right.... Funny (very sad actually) as some folks seem to think ( from what they write at least) that you and dinarck want to play a sort of "exclusive elitist game" ( sad lol) ...

Little do they know you two have been confined here (for way too long).

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When did I ever say Iraq was in hyperinflation? I said a jillion times that their currency is in a hyperinflated state. You know the dinar that we hold that we were able to by for pennies on the dollar.

I missed the "state" part. I just naturally assumed, that if you thought it was hyperinflated, that hyperinflation was the cause. But actually, that isn't the situation Iraq is in, is it? Their currency started out Hyperinflated from the start and has gradually increased in value. Going back through your posts, you have stated that if Iraq RV's it will cause Hyperinflation? If the prices of their goods and services remained pegged to the US Dollar, then Iraq should experience an increase in Dinar Value and not a decrease correct?

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I missed the "state" part. I just naturally assumed, that if you thought it was hyperinflated, that hyperinflation was the cause. But actually, that isn't the situation Iraq is in, is it? Their currency started out Hyperinflated from the start and has gradually increased in value. Going back through your posts, you have stated that if Iraq RV's it will cause Hyperinflation? If the prices of their goods and services remained pegged to the US Dollar, then Iraq should experience an increase in Dinar Value and not a decrease correct?

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The demand for goods and services in Iraq would skyrocket and we all know what happens to prices when demand goes up. They go up with it. It is simple economics. I guess you caught the thread were I posted the defintion of inflation. It is totally relevant to a massive increase overnight of any countries exchange rate. Which is impossible by the way. :)

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Wonder how Deutschmark holders benefited when it was a 1 to 1 exchange. Plus there were no previous DM holders because it was created on June 20th 1948. They also exchanged 1 to 10. In other words you would have to give ten units of your currency just to get one new one. Were exactly did speculators profit here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mark

You are right....it was the Reichsmark, not the Deutschmark, that was converted 1 to 1....my mistake. The people benefited, primarily, as price controls were abolished and taxes were reduced. My info on Germany came from my landlords with whom I lived while stationed in Germany for 4 years in the late 80's/early 90's. They were pretty old then, and remembered fondly the policies that helped turn Deutschland into a productive international force that led to rapid economic growth and an improved financial quality of life for its citizens.

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I do believe that Iraq is a unique and special situation, one that the U.S. helped create in its desire for cheap oil and a somewhat functional democratic society (as close as they can get) in a very contentious part of the world. Plus, I cannot get past the fact that Bush said the war would pay for itself. Finally, I am pasting some historical info on the dinar below, but it just seems to me that if, in 4 years, a country's currency can devalue so dramatically, it can revalue as well. I do believe this is a unique situation. I don't buy into the 150 other currencies revaluing together, and I don't hold any VND. Just my 2 cents worth......

Hi Riceman. The truth is that Iraq is not really a unique situation at all. First, Bush never made the statement that the war would pay for itself. That's a "forum fact" which not one guru has been able to provide proof of, and is repeated endlessly on every Dinar site. That statement was reportedly made by L. Paul Bremer, who was the interim head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq during the Bush administration. I've repeatedly challenged the gurus to show anything even remotely close to that uttered by Bush. Virtually everything he ever said is well documented and easily discoverable. That particular quote would be huge if it were real.

Next, the U.S. doesn't obtain oil from Iraq. Iraq currently produces less than 20% of the daily volume produced by the U.S. Experts say that it will be at least 10 years before Iraq produces even as much as the U.S., and we are number 5 - there are others much bigger. Oil can not be purchased with Dinars - it is only purchased with U.S. Dollars worldwide and that is unlikely to change. The fact that Saddam wanted to change it is believed to be a major factor in the reason for his demise. Trading oil in anything other than U.S. Dollars would be devastating to the U.S. economy. It's unlikely to happen. Those who insist that the U.S. will pay for oil with Dinars are mistaken.

Once again, the MAJOR reason Iraq can not RV is even simpler than the hyperinflation factor. BECAUSE of that hyperinflation, they have now printed more than 60 TRILLION Dinars. That is a HUGE number of units of currency. EACH ONE of those units of currency holds whatever value is assigned to it - currently one tenth of one U.S. penny. Were the Dinar to be RV'd to the equivalent of $1 U.S. Dollar, they would then have 60 TRILLION DOLLARS worth of currency in existence, with 30 TRILLION of those units in circulation. What people refuse to comprehend is that this is more money than exists in the ENTIRE WORLD. This can't be stated often enough, and somehow it is a fact which is very easily ignored by the majority of Dinar holders. How is a country of the size and GDP of Iraq going to have more monetary value than every other country in the world combined? When anyone can answer that most basic of questions, there may be something to discuss in terms of an increase in value for the IQD. Until then, redenomination is the only process that makes economic sense. By removing the three zeros, the number of units in circulation instantly drops from 30 Trillion to 30 BILLION, and THEN could easily be valued at $1 U.S. Dollar or perhaps more - and THAT is exactly what Iraq has been describing over and over again. . :mellow:

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....the policies that helped turn Deutschland into a productive international force that led to rapid economic growth and an improved financial quality of life for its citizens.

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When talking about Countries that made it literally from rags-to-riches...How about Japan? .It was the only Country ever hit by nuclear bombs, totally defeated militarily and destroyed completely in its industry etc... Became for a long while (only recently beaten by China) the second strongest World Economy....Of course we know the Japanese are a very proud People and work super-hard ( or used to anyway).

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You are right....it was the Reichsmark, not the Deutschmark, that was converted 1 to 1....my mistake. The people benefited, primarily, as price controls were abolished and taxes were reduced. My info on Germany came from my landlords with whom I lived while stationed in Germany for 4 years in the late 80's/early 90's. They were pretty old then, and remembered fondly the policies that helped turn Deutschland into a productive international force that led to rapid economic growth and an improved financial quality of life for its citizens.

Agree the Marshall Plan and other policies implemented by the allies helped keep the German economy afloat and allowed it to prosper in the future.

I am sure some big wigs at the time made a boat load of cash but I dont see how currency speculators could have made any money off the deal.

We could argue that the USA has done the same for Iraq. Bringing in plane loads of cash during the invasion to keep their economy from total collapse. Helped print their currency. Occupied with troops for years attempting to regain some stability. Anyway the dinar is hyperinflated and the RM wasnt. A hyperinflated state is a deal breaker when it comes to revaluation out of it overnight. It cannot be done period.

Thanks for coming by. I hope that I didnt seem too confrontational and that you will visit us here in the future. Your opinions are always welcome.

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The demand for goods and services in Iraq would skyrocket and we all know what happens to prices when demand goes up. They go up with it. It is simple economics. I guess you caught the thread were I posted the defintion of inflation. It is totally relevant to a massive increase overnight of any countries exchange rate. Which is impossible by the way. smile.gif

There is a difference though, with a LOP their import puchasing power is the same as it is now. But with an RV their purchasing power increases, which will correspond to an increased demand for imports. Granted until the imports arrive to satisfy the demand there will be inflation, but as those imports start satisfying the demand those prices should stabilize.

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Agree the Marshall Plan and other policies implemented by the allies helped keep the German economy afloat and allowed it to prosper in the future.

I am sure some big wigs at the time made a boat load of cash but I dont see how currency speculators could have made any money off the deal.

We could argue that the USA has done the same for Iraq. Bringing in plane loads of cash during the invasion to keep their economy from total collapse. Helped print their currency. Occupied with troops for years attempting to regain some stability. Anyway the dinar is hyperinflated and the RM wasnt. A hyperinflated state is a deal breaker when it comes to revaluation out of it overnight. It cannot be done period.

Thanks for coming by. I hope that I didnt seem too confrontational and that you will visit us here in the future. Your opinions are always welcome.

No worries, and I like to learn and get all perspectives. I have never felt that a lop is not possible. If you read and believe all the articles out of Iraq, that is what will happen. But, I cannot get away from what the U.S. has invested in time, money, lives, etc...for the U.S. to lose out in the money end of a long and protracted war. It's just not what the U.S. does....lose money in wartime. Again, my opinion.

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Markinsa, You have still failed to explain where Iraq is going to get trillions of US dollars if they RV.

Why do I need to explain that, when I don't believe Iraq needs the trillions of US Dollars? I'm believe the perceived value of the currency (exchange rate) will cause the market to provide those Trillions. Do you think that everytime someone walks into a US Bank to cash in Dinars, Iraq is going to have to pay the bank back? :lol:

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Why do I need to explain that, when I don't believe Iraq needs the trillions of US Dollars? I'm believe the perceived value of the currency (exchange rate) will cause the market to provide those Trillions. Do you think that everytime someone walks into a US Bank to cash in Dinars, Iraq is going to have to pay the bank back? :lol:

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I would love to be able to cash in a $25k right now at a bank and follow the trail. Where do you guys think it would ultimately end up at...it's resting place, before it eventually makes it's way back to Iraq? Or would it directly end up in Iraq as a course of doing business?

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I would love to be able to cash in a $25k right now at a bank and follow the trail. Where do you guys think it would ultimately end up at...it's resting place, before it eventually makes it's way back to Iraq? Or would it directly end up in Iraq as a course of doing business?

There will probably be some agreement between the CBI and other countries' Central Banks, when they receive the Large Dinar Notes, they will destroy them in country and then have some sort of swift transaction.

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There will probably be some agreement between the CBI and other countries' Central Banks, when they receive the Large Dinar Notes, they will destroy them in country and then have some sort of swift transaction.

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Well that would be nifty and in our favour if that is how the cycle goes.

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Why do I need to explain that, when I don't believe Iraq needs the trillions of US Dollars? I'm believe the perceived value of the currency (exchange rate) will cause the market to provide those Trillions. Do you think that everytime someone walks into a US Bank to cash in Dinars, Iraq is going to have to pay the bank back? :lol:

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Why would the market think Iraqis currency is worth more than the rest of the planets currency combined?

How many millions of dinar are you going to buy at 1-1?

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There is a difference though, with a LOP their import puchasing power is the same as it is now. But with an RV their purchasing power increases, which will correspond to an increased demand for imports. Granted until the imports arrive to satisfy the demand there will be inflation, but as those imports start satisfying the demand those prices should stabilize.

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Well I wish the US would RV so my purchasing power would be improved. Unfortunately it isnt possible. Pegged currencies worth and value are determined by how many are in circulation and how much is backing it. A RD on par with a dollar will give Iraqis the same purchasing power that the dollar has. Not bad.

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There will probably be some agreement between the CBI and other countries' Central Banks, when they receive the Large Dinar Notes, they will destroy them in country and then have some sort of swift transaction.

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Let's say there was some such agreement (highly unlikely, but let's go with it). The CB in question destroys the dinar they just paid for in USD, Euros, or whatever, now what? The swift transaction you speak of would have to be to pay the CB that destroyed the dinars for their outlay of whatever other currency was issued in payment for those dinars....the CBI still has to cover those dinars with hard currency. What am I missing?

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