OK Here it is.

[jmw]

thats not true, there pay rates will go up to, so there purchasing power will go up, come on thats common sense.

question's for you my friend

if they dont need a new currency to rd, which they dont, take 3-0's off its pretty easy, why dont they just rd then

you would have to agree they need a new currency if they are to rv though, if they were going to rd, then why are they waiting for the new currency to come out.

why would iraq go neutral, or its actually devaluing by rd'ing. that makes no sense.

is it neutral or devaluing?....a RD is value neutral...and if they adjust the pay rates based on a RV...their pay would go down not up...at which point it would be revenue neutral for Iraqi's...that is exactly why it doesn't work.

and they do have to have a new currency to RD...that's kind of what a RD is "redenominating"....bringing in a new currency that has less zeros but the same value as the old currency...as the article clearly stated today 1 new will equal 1000 old....that is the whole point of it...they have 30 trillion in circulation and the best way to reduce it is to redenominate...which would bring it down to 30 billion...at which point is could increase in value as long as they can back it with reserves....are you one of those "the CBI is lying" about their circulation?....if not then you have to find a way to reduce the money supply.

lastly...Iraq is ranked about 12th in the world in oil production..http://en.wikipedia...._oil_production

Yet they get a special pass to suddenly increase the value of their currency overnight...why them and not Saudi?

do you think there is any correlation to the value and the amount in circulation?

Edited February 26, 2012 by jmw

[sonny1]

is it neutral or devaluing?....a RD is value neutral...and if they adjust the pay rates based on a RV...their pay would go down not up...at which point it would be revenue neutral for Iraqi's...that is exactly why it doesn't work.

and they do have to have a new currency to RD...that's kind of what a RD is "redenominating"....bringing in a new currency that has less zeros but the same value as the old currency...as the article clearly stated today 1 new will equal 1000 old....that is the whole point of it...they have 30 trillion in circulation and the best way to reduce it is to redenominate...which would bring it down to 30 billion...at which point is could increase in value as long as they can back it with reserves....are you one of those "the CBI is lying" about their circulation?....if not then you have to find a way to reduce the money supply.

lastly...Iraq is ranked about 12th in the world in oil production..http://en.wikipedia...._oil_production

Yet they get a special pass to suddenly increase the value of their currency overnight...why them and not Saudi?

do you think there is any correlation to the value and the amount in circulation?

if they make 300,000 dinar per month, it will then be $300 if they rv at $1.00 so that is neutral also.

if they were to rd, they could do it now and introduce lower notes later, they would be worth the same amount......true?

your still stuck on the 30trillion, i know you read everyday, they have admitting been buying back dinar for u.s.d which they have stated, hence the iran scandal with the u.s.d.

that 30 trillion you speak of is more around 6-8 trillion, but of course there is no proof of that, and frankly there is no real proof of 30 trillion either.

i am not saying that cbi is lying.......well i am saying that, if they are buying back dinar with u.s.d then dinar is being taken out of circ. or maybe there buying it back to send back into circ, which i heard one of your guys say (i almost fainted when i heard that) so i would think that even you would have to believe that the dinar in circ is nowhere near 30 trillion.

jmw as always i respect ya, good chatting it up, i love good debate, win or lose, but as you see there are two sides to this, you know your right, as i know i am right.

i need sleep, thanks bro, we'll do this again.... take care

[jmw]

if they make 300,000 dinar per month, it will then be $300 if they rv at $1.00 so that is neutral also.

if they were to rd, they could do it now and introduce lower notes later, they would be worth the same amount......true?

No Sonny they can't RD without a new currency...maybe you typed in wrong and meant to say RV and then introduce the lower denoms...they could do that but if you are claiming they are going to change salaries, loans and prices upon a RV then that doesn't work either.

[sonny1]

No Sonny they can't RD without a new currency...maybe you typed in wrong and meant to say RV and then introduce the lower denoms...they could do that but if you are claiming they are going to change salaries, loans and prices upon a RV then that doesn't work either.

they can initially rd with there current currency, by taking 3-0's off transactions, and letting the people know what there doing, so your wrong there.

they will need over time a new currency for a rd, your right, but not right away, they however need a new currency (small denoms) if they are to rv...

so no i didnt mistype

[jmw]

if they make 300,000 dinar per month, it will then be $300 if they rv at $1.00 so that is neutral also.

that 30 trillion you speak of is more around 6-8 trillion, but of course there is no proof of that, and frankly there is no real proof of 30 trillion either.

i am not saying that cbi is lying.......well i am saying that, if they are buying back dinar with u.s.d then dinar is being taken out of circ. or maybe there buying it back to send back into circ, which i heard one of your guys say (i almost fainted when i heard that) so i would think that even you would have to believe that the dinar in circ is nowhere near 30 trillion.

like I said earlier...their pay would go down which means they wouldn't benefit from a big RV

And as you say...there i no proof that there is only 6 or 8 trillion...but even that is too high...

if they are taking it out of circulation it would be reflected in their financials which it isn't...once they bring it it it is no longer counted in their money supply...it's all on the CBI.iq site....I can only believe what they publish...anything else is just made up.

thanks for the time....it's always fun.

they can initially rd with there current currency, by taking 3-0's off transactions, and letting the people know what there doing, so your wrong there.

not wrong...there have been many redenominations...and ALL of them required a new currency...they need a replacement before they can do it.

[sonny1]

like I said earlier...their pay would go down which means they wouldn't benefit from a big RV

And as you say...there i no proof that there is only 6 or 8 trillion...but even that is too high...

if they are taking it out of circulation it would be reflected in their financials which it isn't...once they bring it it it is no longer counted in their money supply...it's all on the CBI.iq site....I can only believe what they publish...anything else is just made up.

thanks for the time....it's always fun.

not wrong...there have been many redenominations...and ALL of them required a new currency...they need a replacement before they can do it.

wait wait, so your saying that there buying back dinar (which they have claimed cbi, not sonny1) but there dinar in circ hasnt gone down?

that sounds right i guess. lol

i dont have 1 more response left in me, ill re-but in the morn........take care

[dinarck]

Iraqis dont need a 100,000% RV. They need jobs that pay more than 3 USD worth of dinar a day. What Iraqis need is infrastructure, manufacturing, factories, better paying jobs, some kind of economy, some kind of way to make a good living. Impossible overnight RVs dont do any of this. Iraqis dont need better purchasing power. Iraqis need jobs that pay more dinar whether it be at 1170 or after a RD at 1. Where this whole idea that a magical RV will instantly solve all problems in Iraq came from is beyond me. If it was even possible to RV overnight by 1000 times or even 100 times the current value then it would be done all around the world. Then again probably not seeing how it would cause instant hyperinflation

[lotsofdinar]

There are several problems with an RV scenario. Even at 1:1.

First, as has been pointed out, within Iraq, an RV would be a neutral event. A dinar is a dinar in Iraq, and everything would adjust (or incredible inflation would result).

Secondly, a 1000x RV would make it 1000x more expensive for companies outside of Iraq to do business there, something no developing economy would do to itself. It would also make Iraq's eventual exports 1000x more expensive.

And of course, since the idea seems to be that Iraq will pay for the RV with oil over time, we have to consider that because only a small part of the oil that fuels the world comes from Iraq, that oil will continue to be sold in dollars, so a 1000x RV of the Dinar essentially devalues the asset they are going to use to pay for the RV 1000x relative to their currency. So they would actually need 1000x more oil to pay for that 1000x RV (a problem that results because of the trillions of dinar that exist).

A drop three zeros RD reduces the currency 1000x, is value neutral, doesn't make it more expensive for folks in the US to do business there, retains the value of the oil in reference to their currency, and puts them on solid footing for the dinar to increase in value as they prosper over the next decade or two.

Let me add that, as I've said before, I do not think that at this point that they will RV or RD. Whether or not Shabs has the ultimate say in this, there is resistance from within the GOI and without to the idea of an RD, perhaps enough to delay an RD indefinitely. I think they will simply do nothing, leaving the currency where it is until the country is much more stable and prosperous.

[dinarck]

In my opinion lotsofdinar I dont see why Iraq really wants to redenominte at all. It would seem that they could just keep selling dinar and gorge their foreign reserves further instead. Unless they have come to an end game where there is now too much dinar in exsistence which could end up causing an inflation issue so now they will go ahead and RD with a big fat foreign reserve account to show for all the pretty paper they have sold.

[jmw]

wait wait, so your saying that there buying back dinar (which they have claimed cbi, not sonny1) but there dinar in circ hasnt gone down?

that sounds right i guess. lol

i dont have 1 more response left in me, ill re-but in the morn........take care

well they have been buying back dinars for years...at least back until 2004 and their money supply has steadily gone up year after year...so why is it different now?

I'm not sure if Iraq wants to RD...but I'm pretty sure the CBI does...if they get below 1000 dinar to the dollar they would be much less likely to RD...at least that is what has historically happened...but since it is a neutral event...I'm not sure why it is such a big deal...it doesn't change anything other than an overnight jump of 100000%...which won't happen either way.

[lotsofdinar]

"Go RV" has been a business model for a lot of folks, from MSBs to forums and websites for years. Had it not been, not even the site we are posting on would exist. It has certainly worked as a business model for a lot of folks. Unfortunately, it has also created a tremendous amount of useless hype.

[sonny1]

Iraqis dont need a 100,000% RV. They need jobs that pay more than 3 USD worth of dinar a day. What Iraqis need is infrastructure, manufacturing, factories, better paying jobs, some kind of economy, some kind of way to make a good living. Impossible overnight RVs dont do any of this. Iraqis dont need better purchasing power. Iraqis need jobs that pay more dinar whether it be at 1170 or after a RD at 1. Where this whole idea that a magical RV will instantly solve all problems in Iraq came from is beyond me. If it was even possible to RV overnight by 1000 times or even 100 times the current value then it would be done all around the world. Then again probably not seeing how it would cause instant hyperinflation

agreed, they need jobs more than anything, but 1166-1 will not bring in the investor needed to build a private sector, they need to have a recognized currency, and have it worth something.

an rv will solve quite a bit of there problems. inflation to me is the biggest problem, you rd'ers would have a better case plugging they wont rv because of inflation, not they cant pay for it, because they can pay for it.

"Go RV" has been a business model for a lot of folks, from MSBs to forums and websites for years. Had it not been, not even the site we are posting on would exist. It has certainly worked as a business model for a lot of folks. Unfortunately, it has also created a tremendous amount of useless hype.

go rv, has no bearing on if it will rv or not, so you disliking a saying, in the whole mix does't mean it will will not rv.

everything is about hype, you chose to believe it wont-cant rv, i as many think it is very realistic it will-can rv.

[lotsofdinar]

Well, Sonny, you can't make much money promoting "Go RD," thus no abundance of internet forums promoting it. I would say the "hype level" for an RD is pretty low as a result.

[sonny1]

Well, Sonny, you can't make much money promoting "Go RD," thus no abundance of internet forums promoting it. I would say the "hype level" for an RD is pretty low as a result.

obviously, do you think pepsi would like coke coming on there site bashing pepsi, probably not.

but just because a saying wears you down, doesnt mean they will not rv.

i think these sites are good, people get the chance to debate, this site is a freedom of speech site, even though some do not feel that way.

the only ones who are not here, are the ones who got carried away, look jmw, dvforumuser, yourself, dinarc, and a lot of others come on here touting rd, and there still posting.

[lotsofdinar]

Freedom of speech, huh? lol

I'm not allowed to post anywhere but in the Lop section.

But, to my point, do you think this forum would still exist if there were not money to be made from promoting an RV? "Go RV" is a successful business model.

[sonny1]

Freedom of speech, huh? lol

I'm not allowed to post anywhere but in the Lop section.

But, to my point, do you think this forum would still exist if there were not money to be made from promoting an RV? "Go RV" is a successful business model.

i think your kinda missing the point, your saying go rv as in it will not rv, and everyone is stupid, but i feel they will rv, so i feel even with-out the go rv attitude people would still look at the forum, and it would be just as big. i really do.

i think it is kinda flattering that you rd'ers have your own section.

[lotsofdinar]

But I'm not an RDer. I don't think it will RD or RV. I've repeatedly said, I think they will keep it the same as it has been, and the currency will gradually increase in value over the next 10 years or so as Iraq becomes more stable and more prosperous.

I think you missed my point, again. Would Adam have continued to maintain this forum if there were no money to be made here from folk's belief that a big RV is imminent?

[sonny1]

But I'm not an RDer. I don't think it will RD or RV. I've repeatedly said, I think they will keep it the same as it has been, and the currency will gradually increase in value over the next 10 years or so as Iraq becomes more stable and more prosperous.

I think you missed my point, again. Would Adam have continued to maintain this forum if there were no money to be made here from folk's belief that a big RV is imminent?

i think you would almost have to go to okie's or tk's, or pd to ask that question, i think you would admit, this site isnt a ra-ra site like those other sites, i believe people come on here to read the news, of course i have been wrong a few tmes, but this site isn't ra-ra. i think your question should be based at the $8.00 rv claiming sites.

[umbertino]

Quote

you might find this hard to believe, and it might not matter, but i really like you, i think you have major ballllls.

End Quote

Dinarck certainly does ( have major balls) and so does Legolas ( who can't even post anymore).

Hope they can both come back posting all over the Forum.

Freedom of speech, huh? lol

I'm not allowed to post anywhere but in the Lop section.

But, to my point, do you think this forum would still exist if there were not money to be made from promoting an RV? "Go RV" is a successful business model.

I admit I was unaware of that, lotsofdinar.. I hope, just like I do for Dinarck and Legolas, that you too will be allowed to come back with full posting privileges.

[lotsofdinar]

Sonny, nice red herring.

[dinarck]

agreed, they need jobs more than anything, but 1166-1 will not bring in the investor needed to build a private sector, they need to have a recognized currency, and have it worth something.

an rv will solve quite a bit of there problems. inflation to me is the biggest problem, you rd'ers would have a better case plugging they wont rv because of inflation, not they cant pay for it, because they can pay for it.

go rv, has no bearing on if it will rv or not, so you disliking a saying, in the whole mix does't mean it will will not rv.

everything is about hype, you chose to believe it wont-cant rv, i as many think it is very realistic it will-can rv.

A RV will solve none of their problems. If it would they would have "RVed" years ago. The fact is the only RV that exsist are one of small increments. Sonny, the largest RV in history was around 35%. There is a reason for that. It is simply impossible to RV 100,000% or 10,000% or even 1000%. Please show an example of a country with a hyperinflated currency that used a RV to build a private sector. RVs do not build private sectors, or create middle class, or solve any problems, or even exsist.

You say that they can pay for it which they cant but the question is why would they pay for it? Why not redenominate? Why would they pay trillions to speculators or billions of barrels of oil to the US or what ever the favorite theory is of the day when they can just RD and be done with it. Really an RV (which is imposssible) would do absolutelty nothing but put Iraq into massive debt forever and cause instant hyperinflation.

Lets think about what a "RV" would do for the average Iraqi. Lets say Iraqi Joe makes 10 USD or 10,000 Dinar a day. The day after the RV how much will he be making? Well he would be making 10 dinar a day worth 10 USD. Woopty Doo... Lotta good that RV did Iraq but it did make speculators around the world super rich and put Iraq into debt forever. Lets say that right now 1170 dinar or 1 USD will buy a candy bar in Iraq. So you are telling me that overnight that an Iraqi is going to be able to buy 1170 candy bars with the same amount of dinar that bought one the day before? Is this really that difficult to see that this is all made up fantasy that has been mega hyped to sell large amounts of dinar over the years?

[pocono]

Dinarck.....that's the question that I've asked myself a hundered times..."why would they"...maybe they can and maybe they can't but why on earth would they?

[sonny1]

A RV will solve none of their problems. If it would they would have "RVed" years ago. The fact is the only RV that exsist are one of small increments. Sonny, the largest RV in history was around 35%. There is a reason for that. It is simply impossible to RV 100,000% or 10,000% or even 1000%. Please show an example of a country with a hyperinflated currency that used a RV to build a private sector. RVs do not build private sectors, or create middle class, or solve any problems, or even exsist.

You say that they can pay for it which they cant but the question is why would they pay for it? Why not redenominate? Why would they pay trillions to speculators or billions of barrels of oil to the US or what ever the favorite theory is of the day when they can just RD and be done with it. Really an RV (which is imposssible) would do absolutelty nothing but put Iraq into massive debt forever and cause instant hyperinflation.

Lets think about what a "RV" would do for the average Iraqi. Lets say Iraqi Joe makes 10 USD or 10,000 Dinar a day. The day after the RV how much will he be making? Well he would be making 10 dinar a day worth 10 USD. Woopty Doo... Lotta good that RV did Iraq but it did make speculators around the world super rich and put Iraq into debt forever. Lets say that right now 1170 dinar or 1 USD will buy a candy bar in Iraq. So you are telling me that overnight that an Iraqi is going to be able to buy 1170 candy bars with the same amount of dinar that bought one the day before? Is this really that difficult to see that this is all made up fantasy that has been mega hyped to sell large amounts of dinar over the years?

i am just saying what there saying, there saying there going to raise the exchange rate, the big question is how.

why would they rv?

answer: to attract foreign investors, so they can supply jobs through the private sector.

if they were going to rd, why havent they?

all you have to do is tell everyone to take the 3-0's off there notes, vendors off the price, and tell the peole the new notes are coming, its pretty simple actually

they might be saying in most articles there rd'ing, but there actions are those of a country who is about to rv.

and you rd'ers say it has never happened in the history of the world, answer me this when in the history of the world has a currency been so undervalued? the answer is never.........fact

[lotsofdinar]

Sonny has stated a number of times that it will be the dinar that backs the dinar after an RV.

[sonny1]

Sonny has stated a number of times that it will be the dinar that backs the dinar after an RV.

ok, your point for making me look stupid is uncalled for.

second of all when the dinar rv's does it all rv, or just the investor?

no need for stupid azz response, just answer my question.

ok, your point for making me look stupid is uncalled for.

second of all when the dinar rv's does it all rv, or just the investor?

no need for stupid azz response, just answer my question.

this reminds me of watching wrestling as a kid, its kinda like rick flair and the 4 horsemen coming out and jumping 1 guy. lol

ok i asked you lots about 5 min ago, it only takes 20 seconds to type yes.