PrehistoricMan

Search For Bible Truths: If God and Jesus really are equal, then why does the Bible phrase them as "Father" and "Son"? If God and Jesus really are equal, then why does the Bible phrase them as "Father" and "Son"? When thinking about ANY father and his son, is it commonly regarded as them being co-equal and the same person? Of course not. So if God and Jesus both always existed and are co-equal, then why would the Bible confusingly speak of God and Jesus in terms of a relationship between a father and his son? If God and Jesus really are equal, then it would make no sense for the Bible to phrase them as "Father" and "Son". The word "son" principally is regarded in the Bible as "offspring" and in Genesis we read that Adam was produced by God. Interestingly, Adam and Jesus even shared the same description: "son of God". (Luke 3:38) While the Father is always found in the Bible to be called "God", the phrase "God the Son" is never found. Further, if the Son really was God, then why would he call the Father "the only true God"? (John 17:1-3) Jesus is God's "only-begotten" son...the only being directly created by God. (John 1:18) Therefore the designations "Father" and "Son" make sense and are appropriate.

This is exactly the debate I am having with Markinsa. I point out facts from the bible, and he is playing the part of this leftist with alternative facts. He even compared what I had posted to Joe Biden. None of the points he has raised has defeated anything I have posted. His entire argument are whataboutisms and stuff not even in the Bible. So markinsa, your mind is made up. You are unwilling to reason with facts and logic. I get that. Perhaps now you could turn the debate over to someone else? We all know where you stand. It is pointless for me to continue posting to you because of how you are.

Search For Bible Truths: If the Holy Spirit is God, then why isn't the Holy Spirit given equal description in the Bible? If the Holy Spirit is God, then why isn't the Holy Spirit given equal description in the Bible? Jesus said in John 17:3 that it means everlasting life to know God (the Father) and also Jesus. So if the Holy Spirit really is God, then why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned here as well? Further, why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned in a whole host of other relative references in the Bible? A good example: If the Holy Spirit has always been God, and it means everlasting life to know God, then why would Jews instructed in the Old Testament scriptures and in the teachings of John the Baptist, not even know what the Holy Spirit was? (Acts 19:2) If the Holy Spirit is God, then why is the Holy Spirit so vaguely described in the Bible? We know the Father's personal name ("Jehovah", Ps. 83:18; KJV) and we know the Son's personal name (Jesus). If it means everlasting life to know God, and if the Holy Spirit is God, then why doesn't the Holy Spirit have a personal name? If the Holy Spirit is God, why does the Bible neglect to ever mention the words, "God, the Holy Spirit," or "The Holy Spirit is God"? If the Holy Spirit is God, why does the Bible never mention a vision, dream or clear description wherein God and the Holy Spirit are shown as the same person? The reason is because the Holy Spirit is not God and is God's active force: "In the OT the Holy Spirit means a divine power..." -The Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 269, 1976

Defend Jehovah's Witnesses: Questions For Those Who Believe in the Trinity (defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com) If Jesus is Almighty God... 1. Then why is "God head of Christ just as Christ is head of man"? (1 Cor. 11:3) 2. Then why does Scripture consistently phrase Jesus as a separate person from God? (John 20:17; John 14:1; Mark 10:18; John 17:1-3; etc. Also in heaven, 1 Cor. 11:3; Luke 22:69; etc.) 3. Then how can Jesus have a God? Could Almighty God have a God? (Mic. 5:4; Ps. 45:6, 7; 89:26; John 20:17; Rom. 15:6; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph 1:3; Col 1:3; Mark 15:34; John 17:1-3; Also in heaven, Rev. 1:6; 3:2, 12) 4. Then why does Scripture say he was born and is part of Creation? (Col. 1:15) 5. Then why does Rev. 3:14 say that Jesus is "the beginning of the creation of God"? 6. Then why is he subject to GOD, like we're subject to him? (1 Cor. 15:27, 28; Eph. 1:17) 7. Then why does Micah 5:2 say that Jesus' ORIGIN was “from early times”? 8. Then why does Jesus not know what God knows? (Matt. 24:36, Rev.1:1; Luke 8:45) 9. Then why is Jesus still subject to God when he is as high as he will ever be? (1 Cor. 15:27, 28) 10. Then why does Proverbs 8:22-31 show that the Messiah was CREATED / PRODUCED by God? 11. Then why is he not powerful enough to subject things to himself? (1 Cor. 15:27, Eph. 1:17, 22) 12. Then why would he have to be given any power and authority? (Mt. 28:18; 11:27; Jn. 5:22; 17:2; 3:35; 2 Pet. 1:17) 13. Then why did he have to learn anything? (Heb. 5:8; John 5:19; 8:28) 14. Then why is speaking against him not as bad as speaking against the Holy Spirit? (Mt. 12:31,32; Luke 12:10) 15. Then why did Jesus call the "Father...the only true God"? (John 17:3) 16. Then why did he need to be saved? (Heb. 5:7; John 12:27) 17. Then why did he have to be exalted to Leader and Savior? (Acts 5:31) 18. Then how could he be exalted and given a higher name than he had? (Phil. 2:9-11; Heb. 1:2-4) 19. Then why did he have to be given life in himself? (John 5:25,26) 20. Then how can the Father be greater than he? (John 14:28) 21. Then how could Jesus be tempted by Satan when God cannot be tempted with evil? (James 1:13) 22. Then why did he worship the Father? (John 4:22) 23. Then why can he not do anything on his own? (John 5:19; 6:38) 24. Then why would he pray to anybody? (Luke 22:44; John 17:1,2; Heb. 5:7) 25. Then why do John 1:18 and 1 John 4:9 say that Jesus is God's "only BEGOTTEN Son"? ASV 26. Then how can he be God's servant? (Acts 4:26,27,30) 27. Then how could he receive strength from an angel? (Luke 22:43) 28. Then how could he be a mediator between God and man? (1 Tim. 2:5) 29. Then how could he be with God (ton theon)? (John 1:1) 30. Then how can he be God's image? (Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3) 31. Then why is he called the agency (dia) of creation and not the Originator (ek)? (1 Cor. 8:6; John 1:1-3; Prov. 8:30; Heb. 2:10; Col. 1:15,16) 32. Then why did Jesus say GOD was "good" in a way that Jesus was not? (Mark 10:18) 33. Then why does he have an archangel's voice instead of God's voice? (1 Thess. 4:16) 34. Then why is the only "worship" given to him the same given to humans? (Heb. 1:6, cf. Mt. 18:26; Rev. 3:9 - "Proskuneo") 35. Then why do many who believe this rely on a few selected, so-called 'proof-texts' instead of the context of the consistent teaching of the entire Bible? 36. Then how could he be commanded to do anything? (John 12:49; Deut. 18:18) 37. Then why did Steven see two separate entities, GOD and Jesus, and not just one God or three persons? (Acts 7:55) 38. Then how could he be seen at GOD's right hand? (Luke 22:69; Acts 7:55; Rom. 8:34) 39. Then how could Jesus be exalted (not to become God Himself, but) to the position of the "right hand OF God"? (Acts 2:33) 40. Then why would he have to receive a revelation from God? (Rev.1:1) 41. Then why is he called God's "begotten" Son before he came to earth? (John 3:16; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:9) 42. Then how could he have a Father? (John 20:17) 43. Then how could he come in flesh? (1 Kings 8:27; Acts 17:24,25) 44. Then why did he not come in his own name? (John 5:41-44) 45. Then why did Jesus "come down from heaven to do" God's will and not his own will? (Luke 22:42; John 6:38; John 5:30; John 8:42) 46. Then how could he appear before GOD? (Heb. 9:24) 47. Then how could he die? Can God die? Can part of God die? (Rom. 5:10; Acts 5:30; 1 Cor. 15:3; Hab.1:12; cf. 1 Tim. 6:16; Num. 23:19; Ps. 90:2; Dan. 6:25-26) 48. Then why is it that God resurrected Jesus? (Acts 2:32) 49. Then why can we see him if "no man has seen God at any time"? (John 1:18) 50. Then why is there not one clear Scripture where Jesus is called "God the Son," (equal to those declaring "God, the Father)? 51. How is it that the Jews rounded up some false witnesses to make up lies to obtain a death sentence for Jesus, but neither the Jewish officials nor even one of these false witnesses made a claim that he was God or equally God? (Matt. 26:59-67) 52. John summed up his whole Gospel by saying that it was written that we may believe "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God." Why is there is no mention in that summary of the entire Gospel of what would be the most important thing of all - that Jesus is God? (John 20:31) 53. How could Jesus teach in the Jewish synagogues and the temple? This would never happen if any of the authorities believed he claimed to be God (or that his followers believed such a thing). - Matt. 26:55; John 7:14, 28. Matt. 4:23. 54. How could Jesus' followers teach in Jewish synagogues after Jesus' death and for the remainder of that first century (at least)? Again, this would not have been allowed if there were any suspicion that they believed Jesus to be God. Acts 9:20; 13:5, Acts 13:13-15.

Just curious....why is Iraq not responsible for Dinars outside the country?

Well if they make 5 billion bucks a month selling their oil....and they owe Kuwait 1 billion.....then....WHY wait 8 more months to pay off Kuwait in April of 2022?

Yeah there are many bullies on this site. As far as the 42 trillion thing, dont you ever go to the lopster tank here? The guys there talk about this all the time. The 42 trillion printed is not brand new info.

Rino? I never said I voted in ANY election. Please let me know where I have said I voted. I will wait. IF you cannot find it, then you made that up and should apologize no? I believe in Christianity....NOT Chirstendom. There is a difference between the two. Christianity is the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. Christendom is a perscribed doctrine that men voted on. What religion are you? Non denom like MArkinsa?

Thank you for your post. Except the Bible never says Jesus is God incarnate. Find me that exact phrase in the Bible. Yes all things were created by God and his Son Jesus in heaven. BUT Jesus did have a beginning. He was not always existed. Revelation 3:14 English Standard Version “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation. So if Jesus is the BEGINNING of God´s creation, then he cannot actually BE God. Again the word trinity doesnt appear in the Bible. So why should one believe it? I believe in the entire word of the Bible. If you have truly read all of the exchanges on this page. All 8 pages and you still come to this conclusion, there is nothing more I can say. To say you believe everything the others have said and none of the scriptures I have posted....baffles me. Just a simple one. Explain Exodus 3:14 NO MAN may see God and live. Yet thousands saw Jesus. Do you understand that verse? Jesus himself even repeats it at John 1:18. NO MAN has ever seen God.

Jesus can only be one of three things, God, Angel or Human. THAT is what you said. YOU limited him. YOU said this not me. Why lie about it? You said it, own up to it.

So since you said this...... Jesus can only be one of three things, God, Angel or Human-----It destroys your trinity argument. PERIOD. Because if Jesus were God, he could not have been human, which he was on Earth. Your entire belief system is destroyed.

My reason for asking that question was to get him to think. Jesus can only be one of three things, God, Angel or Human.------------YOU LITERALLY SAID THESE WORDS. Why are you trying to back out of it now? Are these your words or not?

Actually angels are called Gods. And WHERE in the Bible does it say that Jesus can be only one of three things? Doesnt that kind of defeat your trinity teaching? If you believe Jesus is God, then he could not have been a man. I mean, by your logic, you just proved the trinity wrong did you not? NYK, REALLY? I have posted around 20 scriptures proving my point, and your take away is that I am agnostic? Wow just wow. I cannot debate you. Aunt Sophie has nothing on you.

Defend Jehovah's Witnesses: Colossians 1:15 - "Firstborn" Versus "Pre-eminent" (defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com) Colossians 1:15 - "Firstborn" Versus "Pre-eminent" Is Colossians 1:15 really saying that Jesus Christ is the "FIRSTBORN of all creation"? Yes. However, some trinitarians insist that the literal "firstborn of all creation" describing Jesus at Col. 1:15 really means "the pre-eminent one over all creation." Prototokos ("first-born"), literally means "born first" - see Young's Analytical Concordance - or Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. The New Testament in the King James Version and most other trinitarian translations use this meaning throughout. Here are all the instances of prototokos in the NT: Matt. 1:25 (King James only); Luke 2:7; Rom. 8:29; Col. 1:15; Col. 1:18; Heb. 1:5, 6; Heb. 11:28; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 1:5 (compare Col. 1:18). None of them clearly means "pre-eminent". Not only do all of these scriptures that use prototokos have either the certain or the most probable meaning of "first-born," but we rarely (if ever) see any Bible translate them as anything but "first-born" or its literal equivalent except at Col. 1:15-18 where the actual meaning would disprove a trinity concept! A few trinitarian translations force an improper interpretation for prototokos at this scripture only (e.g. NIV, NEB). The use of the word prototokos in the Bible always means one who has come into existence first in time - before all the rest of his "brothers" - the beginning (arkhe) of his father's creative (or procreative) works. - see pp. 77-88 in Dr. Jason BeDuhn's Truth in Translation, University Press of America, 2003. Yet some trinitarians, however, still insist that the Biblical use of the Greek prototokos can, sometimes, mean "pre-eminent" because they dare not admit the obvious, true, literal meaning of Col. 1:15.

Nope. You already declared this will never RV so why would you go to a bank?

Container Shipping Service from China to the United States | BR Export USA - Shipping - Imports & Exports (brlogistics.net) It still says $1500 though.

And I think all of you need to get right with God. I said he said an RV would never happen, I provided the proof of what he stated, then I get thumbs down because you guys love the lie rather than the truth. Fact- he said it. Fact- he has had this super intel for years now which never pans out. Fact- he has a mental breakdown whenever it doesnt happen and states this will never happen in his lifetime. Yet I am the bad guy here? I can see God with a clear conscience. You guys cannot.

This is what will drop the stock market bubbles and the real estate bubble. Once the dollar is off the petro peg inflation will have nowhere to go but home. Jay powell will be forced to raise interest rates and that will drop the Dow and demand for real estate. Unfortunately they won’t be able to go up to 21% like 1981 so it will only have mild success this time. Tough times ahead. Noticed that comment in the comments section. Housing prices are outrageous and should be dropped.

EEXXCCEEPTTT he did say it. He said NO RV in this lifetime. But dont let facts get in the way of a good narrative. And he has said things similar to this in his history. He hypes up some secret intel, it falls apart, he freaks out....same thing all the time.

So aritech pumps you guys for 2 weeks with some super secret intel and when it fails he says an rv will never happen now....and you all thank him. lol

Well finally we can agree on something. So how do you come to terms with the verse literally saying baptism forgives sins? I feel like you are someone that will at least speak to me. Markinsa just wants to post article after article with no discussion. He is obsessed with being right and not with reasoning. Being right has clouded his judgment. He wont even accept this NON JW article below because his narrative must be upheld. Jesus is not God - Bible Verses and Proofs | Stay Biblical God cannot die. God doesn’t pray to himself. God doesn’t argue with himself. God didn’t anoint himself. God lives in Jesus, but Jesus is not God. The following Bible Verses will prove the fact that Jesus is NOT God. Everything in the Bible has to be understood as it is written. You can’t interpret whatever you like and claim that it is the truth. The word of the Bible doesn’t need to be interpreted! You have to accept it as it is written. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. (Deuteronomy 12:32) God and Jesus are one, because God lives in Jesus The most Bible Verses that are used to claim that Jesus is God, are Verses which actually prove that God lives in Jesus. God is spirit and therefore He dwells in his children. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10) That God lives in Jesus doesn’t mean that Jesus is God. It means that God and Jesus are one. And Jesus taught us that we can become one with God as well! But do we become God then? Of course not! That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. (John 17:21-22) Adam and Eve were one as well. But does this make them one and the same person? Surely not. They still remain two persons, even though they are one. If two people marry each other, will they be one person? Of course not. But still, they will be inseparable in God’s eyes. The resurrection of the dead comes by man This Bible Verse is that clear, that there really isn’t much left to explain. It says that because death came by man (Adam and Eve), the resurrection of the dead comes by man, as well. That means that Jesus has to be a human, because the resurrection of the dead came through him. Take a look for yourself: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (1 Corinthians 15:21-25) God puts everything under Jesus feet Why should God put everything under his own feet, if everything already belongs to him? He has created everything, therefore He is also the owner of all things. This Verse can only make sense, if Jesus is actually another person and not God himself: For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. (1 Corinthians 15:27) Jesus can’t do anything of his own If he says that he can’t do anything of his own, how was he able to do great signs and wonders? Because God did all these things THROUGH him: I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30) There is one God and one mediator. Jesus is NOT God. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Thimothy 2:5-6) Jesus is not God, but Jesus has a God Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. (Ephesians 1:15-17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17) Jesus has only one God Jesus said that there is only one God. If he was God himself, why didn’t he just say that he is God? Wouldn’t that be much easier for everyone? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord. (Mark 12:29) Jesus is not God, because God is not a human For I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee. (Hosea 11:9) God is not a man … neither the son of man. (Numbers 23:19) For he [God] is not a man. (1 Samuel 15:29) Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. (Deuternomy 6:4) Jesus died, but God can’t die God doesn’t die, because He himself is life. Therefore it was necessary for Him to forsake Jesus on the cross. And that is also the reason why Jesus cried out these words: “God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Mark 15:33-34) Jesus is not God, because Jesus doesn’t know what God knows Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (Matthew 24:34-36) Jesus has a different will than God. Jesus is not God! And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. (Matthew 26:39) Jesus thanks God for hearing him Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 11:41-42) Jesus says that only God is good And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. (Luke 18:18-19) Jesus own words And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John17:3) Jesus is not God, but the son of God He saith unto them, “But whom say ye that I am?” And Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered and said unto him, “Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 16:15-17) Jesus did not anoint himself, but was anointed by God And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. (Hebrews 5:4-5) God and Jesus still remain two entities But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Acts 7:55-56) We only have one God, the Father For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) And we also praise only one God, the Father of Jesus Christ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1:3)

I think baptism is important. I was baptized. 1994. “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Repent and be baptized....FOR the forgiveness of your sins. Why is it you read that and it doesnt compute for you? It literally says that. I really dont understand how you can read that and say it doesnt say what it says. Is it just because ole prehistoric man cannot be right under any circumstances? Or is it something else? Please tell me you are not a robot that has pre programmed responses like the other two I am debating. Please tell me you can think for yourself. Does it say that or not? I dont understand how people can read a verse and it is clear what it says but they think it says something else. It baffles me. For instance thou shall not steal. Now I think it means do not steal. Will you say that too or is it more important to you that I am wrong about that too?

Proven wrong? How? Show me where I said baptisms werent necessary. If you cannot then you would be wrong would you not? Still didnt answer my question. That seems to be a running gag here. Do baptisms forgive sins as that verse says?

How do you come up with these things? The Bible CLEARLY talks about baptism. Heck we are looking at the verse right now. How can you say I dont believe in them? You are quite illogical. I asked if baptisms forgive sins as this verse says. Geez man. “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. It LITERALLY says repent and be baptized FOR forgiveness of sins. Why cant you see that? The words are right there. I feel like I am talking to my Aunt Sophie here.