PrehistoricMan

No you try to fill someone with info. In fact trying to bully me by posting all of that stuff. I am saying lets knock it off and just discuss 2 verses at a time. But it seems you dont want to do that. You just want to post pages of stuff. Ok fine. We just wont talk but just both post pages and pages of into with discussing. Hella of a way to teach ya got there. Defend Jehovah's Witnesses: Was Jesus Executed on a Cross or an Upright Stake? Should the Cross Be Used in Worship to God? (defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com) Was Jesus Executed on a Cross or an Upright Stake? Should the Cross Be Used in Worship to God? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TAMdJxnNnOg/UUeePlXFf1I/AAAAAAAAB20/12dtEBJ5rP8/s200/Jesus-stake.jpg Many are surprised to read in several Bibles that Jesus was hung upon a "tree" at Acts 5:30. http://www.biblestudytools.com/acts/5-30-compare.html This is because the word "Stau·ros´ in both the classical Greek and Koine carries no thought of a "cross" made of two timbers. It means only an upright stake, pale, pile, or pole: "The Greek word for `cross' (Stau·ros´) means primarily an upright stake or beam, and secondarily a stake used as an instrument for punishment and execution." - Douglas' New Bible Dictionary of 1985 under "Cross," page 253. And noted Greek scholar W. E. Vine mentions the following concerning this subject: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YyK_KIEuICw/U1P4cL5WcNI/AAAAAAAAI70/GPutqNJvxEY/s1600/icon_h3.jpg "STAUROS denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross." - Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1981, Vol. 1, p. 256. Vine also goes on to describe the Chaldean origin of the two-piece cross and how it was adopted from the pagans by Christendom in the third century C.E. as a symbol of Christ's impalement. The Pagan History of the Cross Not only does the Greek word Stau·ros´ not mean a "cross" made of two timbers, but the cross "was an emblem to which religious and mystical meanings were attached long before the Christian era." - Chamber's Encyclopaedia, 1969 ed. The pagan Romans used the symbol of the cross before and during the early days of Christianity: "These crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian sun-god ... and are first seen on a coin of Juolius Caesar, 100-44 B.C., and then on a coin struck by Caesar's heir (Augustus), 20 B.C." - The Companion Bible. And Prof. G.F. Snyder points out that "The sign of the cross has been a symbol of great antiquity, present in nearly every known culture. .... The universal use of the sign of the cross makes more poignant the striking lack of crosses in early Christian remains, especially any specific reference to the event on Golgotha. Most scholars now agree that the cross, as an artistic reference to the passion event, cannot be found prior to the time of Constantine." - p. 27, Ante Pacem - Archaeological Evidence of Church Life Before Constantinte. The Baptist NT scholar W.E. Vine wrote about "Cross": "STAUROS ... denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten on a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross. The shape of the latter had its origins in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ." - p. 248, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Thomas Nelson, 1983 printing. "In ancient Israel, unfaithful Jews wept over the death of the false god Tammuz. Jehovah spoke of what they were doing as being a `detestable thing.' (Ezek. 8:13, 14) According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol. From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against Jehovah and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29) So by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God." - Reasoning From the Scriptures, "Cross". The Cross - A Form of Idolatry But even if we ignore the evidence and assume that Jesus was killed on a cross, the most important thing is that the cross should not be venerated. Whether it was an upright single torture stake, a cross, an arrow, a lance, or a knife, should such an instrument really be used in worship? Not only should the thought of venerating the very instrument of Jesus' execution be repelling in itself, but the symbol of the cross is also a pagan symbol...idolatry that God commands us to not even "touch": “What agreement does God’s temple have with idols?...'Quit touching the unclean thing.'" (2 Corinthians 6:16, 17) “Guard yourselves from idols.” (1 John 5:21) "You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion." (Exodus 20:4-5) Long before the Christian era, crosses were used by the ancient Babylonians as symbols in their worship of the fertility god Tammuz. The use of the cross spread into Egypt, India, Syria, and China. Then, centuries later, the Israelites adulterated their worship of Jehovah God with acts of veneration to the false god Tammuz. The Bible refers to this form of worship as a ‘detestable thing.’ - Ezekiel 8:13, 14. First-century Christians, however, held the sacrificial death of Christ in high esteem. Likewise today, although the instrument used to torture and kill Jesus is not to be worshipped, true Christians commemorate Jesus’ death as the means by which God provides salvation to imperfect humans.

How about this? So I dont have to respond to three different posts. How about we establish a rule. You post once, then I post once. But this scatter brained posting 6 times in a row....is nonsense. Also how about just posting two verses at a time so one isnt here ALL day posting to counter them? You keep posting Gone with the wind type posts. Meaning long as heck. Whaddya say?

The truth is on my side. John 17: 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Here Jesus says the ONLY true God would be the father. You read it and say Oh Jesus is God too. Why would Jesus, IF he is God, teach people that only the father is the true God? Wouldnt he say he is the true God too? Why at John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” If Jesus is God then how can he HAVE a God? Do kings usually say they have a king? Does President Biden say he has a president over him? Yeah the truth is not on your side. IT is on the scriptures side.

What is the actual truth then that is escaping me?

No, you said you gave rubies for me doing name calling. On the previous 10 pages, WHERE is the name calling? And this idiot comment is who is doing the rubies. Since I have no idea who is doing it, it is not specific to a person.

Yet you kept asking me question after question wanting me to engage with you did you not? I said I didnt debate mods multiple times yet you insisted. OR are you saying I made that up? But since you have said this perhaps we better stop now eh? This tells me you would like to not talk anymore. Correct?

Specifically where is the name calling? And Markinsa DID create this thread so he and I could debate. Ask him yourself. Also show me the childish behavior. Let me know. Did I say nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo? Let me know where I am acting like a kid. Be specific.

You gave some to me for literally quoting the Bible on many of them. Um, then stay out of the debate if you know nothing. Fair? IF I stray off point, give me an example of where I did it. Put your money where your mouth is. Show me where I strayed off topic.

Absolutely I give myself an upvote. The idiot giving me the rubies is not in the debate. You have your followers giving them to me. I have no help here so why shouldnt I vote myself up? Why is there a limit to uploading pics? 1. Why would God give a created being the responsibility to bear Man's sins and punishment for those sins? Why not? Um, why did God give angels the responsibility to be messengers? Why does God give MAN the responsibility to spread the good news? Again, I see YOU putting limits on God. 2. Why would God come to earth as a Human and then announced to the World that He is here to take away our sins? He didnt come to Earth. Because Jesus is not God. 3. Why would God(Jesus) tell Satan He was God when He was on earth to take the punishment for our sins revealing His plan? How stupid would that be??? HE didnt tell Satan he was God. Where is that verse at? OH! And this one: Who or what do you think Jesus is, if not God? The Messiah. Gods first creation. The arcangel.

How could you possibly know that? Unless it is you? And if it is you, it is quite cowardly to stay out of the debate but give rubies on the side.

Maine is the only state to have banned civil forfeiture for state and at the federal level.

Even this verse of Galations. It seperates Christ and God. And you are so blind you cannot see it. God called people to himself THROUGH Christ. Shouldnt it say they both called since supposedly Jesus IS God? But yet it doesnt. It seperates them. You should read it again. Everything that is hyperbole, you read as literal and everything literal you read as hyperbole. You dont believe Deut 6;4 God is one. It doesnt say there that God is one in three. Yet that is what you believe. You dont believe Deut 6;4. And to add...VERY lame as a mod to keep giving me reds. IT is quite childish. Notice also folks I havent been able to post a picture of a scripture in quite a while. I wonder why that is? Perhaps ole honest Markinsa um, changed the algorithms so that I cannot post a pic anymore. Everytime I try whatever I try, always says it is too big. Acts 18:2828 For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah. Notice...He proved from the scriptures that Jesus was the messiah. WHY didnt he try to prove to the people that Jesus was God unless....he already knew that was bunk? Another perfect opportunity wasted. And another scripture that Mark will deny

Right. You inferred it. It is the same thing. Coming out and saying it or inferring it. Oh good. FINALLY you said it. You believe it. So all this pussyfooting around of if you didnt or did say it is now moot. Why play word games when ALL along you believe Gold can float? See what I mean about the dishonesty folks? HE fights for two pages about this and all along believes it. I wish he would just tell the truth and NOT have to play with words. Only someone that has no intelligence believes in literal gold in heaven. It is hyperbole. It is not real. Again wordplay. yOu aDmItTeD jEsUs is gOd.....What utter horsecrap. IF I think Jesus is God I will say it. I dont hide from my words and play around like you do. No, Jesus is NOT God. NEver has been, never will be. Uh oh, he got me now. The Bible says worship so of COURSE, ole markinsa takes it literally. Search For Bible Truths: Heb. 1:6 "All angels of God worship him" KJV Heb. 1:6 "All angels of God worship him" KJV "At Heb. 1:6 the KJV (and many other trinitarian translations) says: "And again, when he [the Father] bringeth in the first begotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship [proskuneo] him." However, when we look up this scripture in the Old Testament (the trinitarian New Oxford Annotated Bible; New American Standard Bible [Ref. ed.]; and Dr. W. F. Beck [Lutheran] in his New Testament in the Language of Today [1964] all refer Heb. 1:6 to Deut. 32:43). And we find that Deut. 32:43 does not refer to the Father bringing his firstborn Son into the world and, in fact, in the Septuagint, instructs the angels to worship God (Jehovah, the Father) with no reference to Christ or the Son whatsoever. So there is the distinct possibility that Heb. 1:6 is saying that all the angels worship the Father at that time. But even if the writer of Hebrews is saying the angels "worship" [proskuneo] the Son, it certainly doesn't have to mean "worship" in the highest sense. Even these trinitarian translations admit as much in their renderings of Heb. 1:6 - The New English Bible; Revised English Bible; New Jerusalem Bible; An American Translation, Smith-Goodspeed; Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible; The Letter to the Hebrews - The Daily Study Bible Series, Dr. William Barclay." Worship at those verses is NOT to be taken literally. But hey, I am having an argument with a guy that thinks gold floats, then denied it, then changed. SO frickin dishonest of him.

Well when I said the streets of gold were not literal....you stated nothing is impossible with God. So yes, you support streets of gold. Otherwise you would have agreed. But you didnt. So I ask again...do you believe the streets of gold in heaven are literal? I am not putting words in your mouth. You literally said those things. Now you know it is ludicrious and now are trying to get out of it. No, you are posting the john verse thinking Jesus is talking about himself being God. He isnt. 3 times now I have covered that. Nah, I will never worship Jesus. Only the father is worthy of worship. You are too proud to admit in the end that God is not a trinity. IN fact it is maligning God to call him that. I was clear about Gen 11;1 Like I said, you were not intelligent enough to understand my point. You thought I said I didnt believe the tower of babel which is not even mentioned at that verse. I would say the cult is you. YOU are the ones that vote in politics. Man over God. YOU are the ones that believe in going to war. Something God condemns.

You said you believe in streets of gold. So the person that has the problem is you. Ah, so the ole magic if you dont have the holy spirit dwelling inside you, ya cannot understand God´s word position. That is elitiest no? Thou shall not steal. Does one REALLY need the holy spirit dwelling in them to not understand this verse? It literally says dont steal. By your logic one has to attend seminary school for countless years then drink this magic potion of holy spirit to be able to understand that verse. Nah, I believe the Bible was written for ALL to understand. Not some secret exclusive club. You ask why did God put these things in writing if he wasnt planning on putting them into fruition? AANNDDD I will go back to my original statement which you cannot seem to grasp. The Bible is written with alot of hyperbole. Didnt our hearts MELT when we were listening to him? Again I ask you, did their hearts REALLY melt? Did um, God put melting hearts into um, fruition? You dont think God can dwell with us UNLESS he is human and walking around with us? Um, werent you the one that said dont put limits on God? Yet here you are doing that very thing. Your John verse is not about him saying he is God. It is about him saying he is the Messiah. I ALREADY covered that. Which goes back to my original statement again. I dont think you are intelligent enough to understand the Bible. You dont need a special elixer of holy spirit, you just need brain smarts. I responded to a post with Genesis 11:1 showing you what it was really saying. You responded that I dont think Genesis 11:1 exists. I dont even get your logic. How could you possilbly read into that I dont think it exists when I explained it to you. The Earth doesnt literally speak, but the people on it do. See what I mean by intelligence? How you came to that conclusion is a smh moment. Your Matthew scripture is JUST that. Having humility. You have none. I dont expect to go to heaven. I am just fine here on the Earth.

First you agree that everything is not literal, then you think gold floats. Ok...lets try to reason logically. I will give it one more time. If we will be spirit persons in heaven. NOT flesh and blood...then what possible use would a street of gold have there for us? OR perhaps John was trying to describe heaven in HUMAN terms so we could understand it?

Mahmud Dagher cbi director - Google Search In fact if you google his name and scroll down. It says he is the FORMER director of the CBI.

EEEXXCCEEEPPPTTT Dagher has no power. Central Bank of Iraq - Wikipedia Since 15/9/2020: Mustafa Ghaleb Ghaleb is the only one that matters what he says. The governor of it.

Nothing about being a coward. To quote Obi Won...who is more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him? What possible good could come from answering you? Are you going to think in a different way if I do? I hightly doubt it. The bible is not always literal. It is historical, poetic, prophetic, moral and other things. It is not always literal as I have shown. If you would stop thinking that everything is literal, we might have some common ground. But I cannot really have a discussion with someone that believes the very heavy metal of Gold can float in the sky.

HAHA...I knew it. See this is your problem in a nutshell. You are just not intelligent enough to understand the Bible. The Bible is filled with hyperbole and with exaggerations... I bet also you think God rides around on a chariot and the wheels actually have eyeballs on it from the book of Ezekial. And when Jesus called the pharisees white washed graves and serpents....you literally believe they turned into actual tombstones dont ya? Matthew 5:29. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away… ... Luke 10:4. Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. ... I bet you think these are literal too. Hey Markinsa, how come you havent gouged your eyes out yet? I mean, Jesus literally said it right? Arent you sinning by not obeying him? I mean you think he is God too so you really should obey him right? Numbers 13:32-33 So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, “The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.” I bet you think the land actually devoured the inhabitants. Maybe ate them with salt? haha And I bet you believe the Israelites LITERALLY became grasshoppers. And you want to know why I am not answering your questions? How can we have a discourse if you cannot apply simple reason and logic to things? That you see everything in the Bible is literal? Deuteronomy 1:28 Where can we go up? Our brethren have made our hearts melt, saying, “The people are bigger and taller than we; the cities are large and fortified to heaven. And besides, we saw the sons of the Anakim there.”’ I bet you literally think their hearts melted. OMG! So they were walking zombies? I cannot answer your questions, because you literally cannot have a discussion.

Sigh....I bet you believe there are actual streets of gold in heaven too. Tell me I am wrong.

No. God has never appeared in human form. No man may see God and live. No, God did not walk in Eden. You have to stop thinking everything is literal for crying out loud. I now think either you are just dishonest or willingly mentally challenged. I have a friend name Russ that became a baptist preacher. He too tried to own me on hell. He was using Mark 9:48 about the fire. I asked him about the worms in that verse. He was dumbfounded. HE concluded that Jesus gave um, worms everlasting life. That is the point when one takes their brain and throws it out of their skull and runs over it. I tried to reason with him on why not the kangaroo was not given everlasting life or the aardvark perhaps? Why do worms get this special privilege? I tried to make it as silly as possible so he would get the point. In the end he said Jesus said it so I believe it. Dumb dumb dumb I havent spoken to him in months considering how dumb he was. HE refused to reason that the worms dieth not does NOT mean they live forever. He was just too prideful to admit it that that was ridiculous. I however will almost bet you will say worms live forever instead of using actual reasoning ability. I mean considering you actually think God walks. Um, he is a spirit creature. He doesnt have legs.

Um, because 2 corinthians 6;16 ISNT literal? So what you are saying is God CANNOT be with us today because he isnt physically walking among us? Ugh... Anyone more than Genesis 11:1 is frickin literal. -Now the whole earth had one language and the same words.- I suppose you think the LITERAL Earth speaks eh? or...gasp...could it POSSIBLY be talking about the PEOPLE on the earth had one language? Try to think outside the box. God is not literally walking on the earth.

If Authority has to be GIVEN to Jesus, then he isnt God! Wouldnt God have all the authority already? But here Jesus is being GIVEN authority. You guys are pretty blind. Sigh....You are saying invisible God cannot be among mankind, then say Jesus is visible. You contradict yourself there. Ronscarpa, I see just fine. Instead of debating me yourself you rely on markinsa to do it for you.

So the consensus here is that Breitling is the smart guru. Has he ever given a window before?