DaveD

I don’t know about “SPECULATION”, but it’s obvious some need to better understand lop. Lop is not a technical term, the technical term is redenomination. Lop is simply a slang term for redenomination. Things would have been much clearer in dinarland if the term redenomination had been used instead of lop. Gurus and pumpers have mislead people for years into believing a lop and a redenomination are somehow different. Here is the study of redenominations from Layna Mosley,Dept. of Political Science University of North Carolina. Titled “Dropping Zeros, Gaining Credibility?Currency Redenomination in Developing Nations” Every country in the paper lopped… redenominated. But the term lop is not used in the paper one time. http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf From the study. Hypothesis 2: Redenomination is more likely following a period of high inflation and a subsequent stabilization. A dramatic downward movement in inflation increases the probability of a redenomination. That blows away the pumper/guru lie about redenomination/lops only happening during hyperinflation. If you believe lop is different than redenomination then please give me one example of a country lopping but not redenominating.

Just as hunz2 pointed out. Never happened. Kuwait shut down all banking when Saddam invaded. the Central Bank of Kuwait nor any bank in Kuwait issued one single dinar, NOT ONE DINAR was issued at a rate less than the $3 official rate. some people panicked on the street and sold the dinar out of their pockets for less than the official rate. After Saddam was kicked out, the Banks reopened and the rate was still the same as it was before the war. They issued a new currency and did not honor any of the dinar stolen by Saddam. So Kuwait issued ZERO, NONE, NADA, not one single dinar at a rate less than the official $3 rate Iraq on the other hand has issued 32 TRILLION dinar at rate of no better than 1166.

Not sure where you got your info from, but North Korea DID remove zeros. They lopped 2 zeros from their currency and set a limit for the amount allowed to be exchanged. Search North Korea, currency, and zeros and you'll get many many hits that talk about it. Secondly... you have fallen for the pumper/guru lies about Iraq being under sanctions. Bush removed all sanctions against against Iraq years ago, right after the war. The only sanctions that remained were they couldn't deal in arms and they didn't have full control over the DFI funds. They now have control of the DFI funds and I think the arms limitation still exist. Chapter 7 is not sanctions. Chapter 7 is more a UN status that allows sanctions to placed more easily. But there are no sanctions other than arms dealing, and it's been that way for years.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-126640765.html “Turkey carries out currency revaluation.” http://www.letsgo.com/15838-europe-travel-guides-turkey-essentials-c “In response to rampant inflation and ever-confusing prices, Turkey revalued its currency in 2005, dropping 6 zeroes. One million Turkish Lira became 1 Yeni Türk Lirası” http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-19657604.html “Russia plans to revalue the rouble” http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v10n17a25.html VENEZUELA TO REVALUE CURRENCY http://www.exchangerate.com/country-information/ghana.html note: in 2007 Ghana revalued its currency with 10,000 old cedis equal to 1 new cedis http://www.banknotenews.com/files/585c9d7e23b7e337a9cb7321c2a9bec9-1946.php Zambia revalues kwacha by removing three zeros http://www.banknotenews.com/files/17faa856f3e2e824d407e61c9f9c03c0-898.php North Korea revalues and replaces currency These are all lops. I could go on and on but I hope you get the point. Go to a search engine. Type in the name of any country that lopped along with revalue, currency, and zeros. Ex. “Turkey revalue currency zeros” EVERY country that lopped will have articles that used the term “Revalue” do describe it.

"So then that will reduce the money supply from 30 trillion to 20-24 trillion because they reduced it by 80%. " I think the average third grader has better math skills.

Gotta wonder about the mentality of those that would Neg you for posting something you found elsewhere. The funny thing is neither can present an argument against what is said, so they just Neg and run away.

Who do you think is more likely to be misunderstanding the process? Adviser to the Prime Minister for Economic Affairs… or Enorrtste?

Then what do you base your "it looks better for an rv everyday" opinion on?

Or it could happen at the first of the year like they contnue to tell us it will.

That’s some powerful rebuttal of the original post. Bet he feels foolish now. He added his opision about a number of facts. Can you dispute any of the facts he talked about? Do you not find it interesting that according to pumper gurus Iraq is telling us that the dinar will soon RV 100,000%. Yet the value of the dinar is sinking. They are doing everything they can to get the street rate back up to the official rate. OBVIOUSLY Iraqis do not believe the dinar will be RVd 100,000%. If Iraq was talking about a huge RV to happen in the near future, the street rate would be skyrocketing. It is probably why they have floated the 1000:1 rumor lately. To try to get people to hold the dinar. They flaoted that rumor years ago and the street rate quickly went to near 1000:1 and the CBI had to come out and deny the rumor. It doesn't seem to be working this time.

This isn’t hard to understand. Iraq has 32 Trillion dinar in circulation and on top of that they have electronic currency (bank accounts and such). When added to the currency in circulation it gives them 72 Trillion dinar total. That is their M2. A $1 RV would give them $32 Trillion worth of dinar circulating, and $72 Trillion worth of dinar M2. Here are figures for the whole world. http://dollardaze.org/blog/ The whole world combined has $5 Trillion dollars worth of currency in circulation and $70 Trillion worth M2. Iraq would have 6 times more currency in circulation than the whole world combined and an M2 equal to the whole world. Currency is used to support a countries economy. Iraq currently has less than 1% of the worlds economy. Can a country with less than 1% of the worlds economy have 6 times the rest of the world combined in cash, and equal the rest of the world M2. That seems ludicrous to me. Now… if Iraq does as they say they will. Delete 3 zeros. For every thousand dinar you have now, you get 1 new dinar. The new dinar will be worth $.85. Will you make the same comments once the new dinar is valued at 85 cents. It’s amazing that gurus and pumpers and dinar holders for years have totally ignored the money supply side of the issue. For years lopsters were banned from dinar boards for even bringing up the subject of the money supply. It’s only been over the last year or so since Iraq has been putting out 1 or 2 articles every week talking about the huge money supply and the need to reduce it and their redenomination delete 3 zero plan to do it… only since then have the gurus been forced to deal with the issue. For years gurus SCREAMED that money supply didn’t mean anything. Money supply is 50% of the equation. It can’t be ignored. Here’s an example. Let’s say Iraq currently had a $4 exchange rate. How many people would be buying millions and million thinking it’s undervalued? Very few I bet. Well… what if you found out they only had 1 million of these dinar in circulation. A $4 rate at 1 million in circulation would mean the Iraqi dinar is massively undervalued. See… exchange rate means absolutely nothing unless you know the other side of the equation… money supply. Here a current observation that blows the Kuwait comparison out of the water. Kuwait info: http://www.cbk.gov.kw/cbkweb/servlet/cbkmain?Action=mtbl&archive=201204&tbl=RM02 Kuwait has 1.2 Billion dinar issued. At $3.56 per dinar, that means the Kuwait dinar is worth $4.27 Billion. Iraq has 32 Trillion dinar issued. At $.00085 per dinar, that means the Iraqi dinar is worth $27.2 Billion. So the Iraqi dinar is currently worth 6.4 times more than the Kuwaiti dinar. Iraq has 26.6 thousand times more currency in circulation than Kuwait. For every single Kuwaiti dinar, there are 26.6 thousand Iraqi dinar. Do you think every Iraqi dinar should be worth the same thing as each Kuwaiti dinar?

Where do you get the info that this is an ARTIFICIAL program rate? The term program rate is simply used because Iraq is under an IMF program. A Stand By Arrangement. All countries that under an IMF program… they all have what is called a program rate. It’s a pretty meaningless term. Proof is Iraq has been under the stand by arrangement for years, and they have moved their exchange rate a number of time while having this so called program rate. Now that you know what a program rate is… there is nothing artificial about it at all. Iraq has stated a number of times that they intend to back the dinar fully (100%) with FX reserves. Iraq has about 72 trillion dinar M2 according to the CBI financials. We have seen numerous articles about how Iraq has a record amount of FX reserves. $62 billion. Simple math… $62 billion divided by 72 trillion dinar equals $.00086 or 1161 dinar per dollar. Artificial??? LOL… the rate is almost exact. This is what the IMF says about the dinar… A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar: “The CBI [Central Bank of Iraq] will continue to aim at keeping inflation low, predominantly by maintaining a stable exchange rate. The low level and the relative stability of inflation do not suggest any significant over- or under-valuation of the Iraqi dinar.”

There are a number of gurus who claim exactly that. And a lot of people holding dinar who seem to believe them.

Ok… countries lie about and deny RVs of ½ a percent. China did it. Kuwait did it. Others have done it. It is very common for countries that lop to openly discuss it. Even for years before finally doing it. So which do you think all these articles and announcements are talking about? They have openly been talking about deleting 3 zeros for years. Which is it? A lop which countries almost always talk about. Or a 100,000% RV (countries conceal 1/2 % RVs)

Remove 3 zeros means you turn in 1000 old and you get on new in return. Simple as that. The current dinar is worth basically $.001. The new dinar will be basically $1. So even though there is no monetary gain from a lop. It’s seems quit understandable that they would exaplain it as raising the value of the dinar. Old dinar $.001, new dinar $1 Here is a post by someone on an Iraqi news site. He’s spent tons of time in Iraq.. “As said I’ve been to Iraq for more years than I’d like to remember. They have TV broadcasts on Alsumuria TV (their Arabic language TV channel) and they talk about the redenomination all the time – explaining how the prices will get lopped and how you will hand in 1,000 current notes and get 1 new note back but it will be worth 1,000x more. We have some very fluent Arabic to English translators and their consistent meaning is unmistakeable.” It can’t be any clearer to the Iraqi people what is happening. and that’s a lop. Once again people. The street value of the dinar is sinking. They are having a hard time trying to get it back to the 1166 official rate. People over there know for sure it is a lop. If they thought it was a big RV they would be murdering each other on the street to get dinar. The street rate would be skyrocketing. That is not happening. ABSOLUTE proof that no RV is being talked about.

Let's all welcome a new member to the lop club. 6-13-2012 Kaperoni: This article is not good. It appears clearly in this article they are talking redenomination or LOP. I am not giving up hope, but this seems pretty compelling that Iraq may not be honoring the dinar at face value post redenomination. The best one can gain from this is 2X or 3X our investment if this is true. Latest members to join. Ali Father of Dinar (DD) Kaperoni As the pumpers turn. Who will be next?

I bought dinar based on the fantasy RV that was goingt to happen at any second, so you better buy now talk. Very stupid of me. That was in 2005. That was before anyone discovered the CBI finacials and it was before any talk of deleting 3 zeros and redenominating. Shortly after I invested I found the financials which showed the massive money supply and at that time I realized a big sudden RV was pure nonsense. Then in the summer of 2006 the first redenomination article came out. The minister of finance announced they wanted to redenominate the currency and delete 3 zeros. That was enough for me.

It’s stunning to me people are so gullible they think Iraq is openly talking about RVing the dinar 100,000% in the near future. They have been openly discussing this plan for years now. That in itself should be a dead give away to that what they are talking about is a simple lop. No gain in value. Countries that lop do this all the time. Very normal to talk about it for years before dong it. On the other hand… it’s standard procedure for countries deny and lie to hide raising their currency ½ of one percent because they don’t want speculators to take advantage of it. So do you really think Iraq is openly talking about a 100,000% RV for years in advance giving people the opportunity to get all they want before the event. If you do believe that’s what they are doing then why is the dinar sinking in value? The street rate has dropped the last six months. They are doing everything they can just to try to get the street rate back to the official rate of 1166. If this RV talk was true, or if people believed it even to be a possible rumor. The street rate of the dinar would soar in value. It would already be trading on the streets for over 50 cents a dinar if people really thought it would be RVd to a $1 soon

Question... If this delete 3 zero thing is as the pumpers and gurus claim, a big RV. Then why in the heck are they postponing it? Who in their right mind would be against this if what the gurus claim is right? According to them Iraq and its people will all prosper greatly. All countries holding dinar will cash in big, get oil for dinar forever, and get out of debt. Tons of millionaires will be created overnight… stimulating economies all over the world, along with more money for the countries collecting taxes from the new millionaires. This RV according to the gurus will rescue the entre world from all it’s economic woes! There is absolutely no downside to this the RV according to the gurus. It’s a win win win win win situation. Not one single bad thing can come from it they claim. Again… who is against this and why?

Of course what the CBI is saying they will do is a lop. They have stated a number of times they will go from trillions of dinar to billions of dinar. That’s a 3 zero drop. A reduction of 99.9% of the money supply. That can ONLY be accomplished with a lop. There is no other way to reduce that high a % of currency. They have even stated that the exchange rate of the old currency to the new currency will be 1000:1. That is a lop. They have stated that this plan is the same as Turkey, Russia, and many other countries have done. They all lopped. And most telling is this. They have been amazingly open and public about this plan. They have talked about it for years. That is very standard for lops. Countries often discuss/debate/plan lops for years. To think they have been talking about a future 100,000% rv so publicly is… well… it’s preposterous, insane, absurd, laughable.

The whole notion prepared by Kap is preposterous anyway. He claims Iraq has $800 billion in war debt that they are going to repay. In what fantasy world is he living where he thinks that’s going to come true? Secondly… even if it were true. The currency Iraq already has in circulation is a LIABILITY. It is not an asset. It’s 32 trillion, not 27, and if they RV the dinar to $1 that immediately puts Iraq in debt $32 Trillion. The thought that Iraq will go $32 Trillion in debt to pay a $800 billion debt is the kind of stuff that comes from 2nd graders. Seriously… some of these guys should be locked up for making such ridiculous statements.

Why is this allowed in the Rumor section. I thought lop talk was only allowed in the "Lop Talk" section. Or is the rule really just no talk that supports the lop theory... while all lies and made up fantasy crap that claims no lop can be posted anywhere on the board?

“This report was originally prepared at the request of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. With the Committee's permission, it is being made generally available for the use of Members.” Currency and the Balance of Payments: The Iraqi dinar was long considered a strong currency aided by oil revenues and rising foreign exchange reserves. Some of this reputation may be attributable to the decision, by the National Bank of Iraq in the 1950’s, to maintain 100% reserves behind outstanding domestic currency.30 The official rate was variously set between $3 per dinar to $3.38 per dinar in the 1970s, the last official rate of $3.11 per dinar was set in 1982. During the 1970s, the official and markets rates generally corresponded and by 1980 the country had $35 billion in foreign exchange reserves. By 1987, that figure had fallen to $2 billion. The currency depreciated steadily during the Iran-Iraq war, and the pace of descent quickened after the first Gulf war. One estimate had the currency depreciate from 4 to 8 dinars per dollar in 1990-91. The advent of sanctions paradoxically stabilized the currency for a brief time as foreign exchange transactions virtually ceased. However, the onset of limited food and medicine trade under sanctions renewed the downward slide. The dinar reached an all-time low of 2,660 per dollar in December 1995. It has slowly appreciated from that low, yet has fluctuated widely from 1,000 to 2,300 dinars per dollar in the period 1997-2001 on the black market. Inflation: As with other indicators, data on inflation are spotty and, during the 1990s, price data have a highly anecdotal quality. Before the oil boom, the Iraqi economy was characterized by price stability with an inflation rate at 5-6% during the period 1960-73.34 This source calculates inflation increasing from 18% to 68% between 1975-79 as a consequence of substantial currency inflows related to the oil boom.35 Prices continued to rise during the Iran-Iraq war as resources were diverted toward the military and government borrowing from the central bank expanded the monetary base. Inflation was recorded at 95% in 1980 and had increased to 400% by 1989. During the 1990s, a period of hyperinflation occurred. The government continued to print money to meet expenditures while economic sanctions shut off the supply of imported goods leading to a classical monetary overhang. A yearly inflation rate of upwards of 2,000% per cent was reported in open market food prices between 1990-1991.36 Another source estimated that inflation increased 5,000% between 1990and 1995. It's amazing that the dinar went from $3 in 1980 to over 1000:1 and people still claim there has been no high inflation. They have bought into the silly lie pumped by dealers and gurus that the dinar was somehow just magically devalued overnight. That helps them sell the lie that it will magically revalue overnight one day.

It’s amazing to me that you understand the highlighted statement above. Yet you can’t seem to apply that statement to Iraq. Iraq had 30 billion dinar back in 1980 when they had the $3 rate and now they have printed over 30 Trillion and have over 70 Trillion M2. Is it not obvious that they increased the money supply over 1000 times and explains perfectly why the rate is now over 1000 times lower.

I bet there's been close to 100 articles. Look at the chart I linked. It jumped back in Jan and there's been articles out almost daily about it and what to do about it. It was the sanctions in Syria and Iran. They limited and even shut down auctions. This has been going on for a while. Of course delete 3 zeros is a bad thing for dinar holders. For Iraqis it’s a simple currency swap with no gain or no loss, so no big deal. That’s why we have seen 100’s of articles about it. It’s not a big deal to discuss and talk about because it’s a revenue neutral event. We have seen countries lie and deny RVing their currency 1% or even ½%. Anyone who thinks Iraq is openly discussing a 100,000 RV is either massively ignorant of currency basics… or they stand to profit from dinar sales and hype. Some fit in both categories. And anyone else reading this… please don’t give me crap for going personal. Look up the word ignorant. It simply means lacking knowledge or unaware. I’m not saying people are stupid. They are simply ignorant on the subject of economics and currency. I bought the dinar and held millions for a short time. I was totally ignorant at the time.