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DaveD
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Posts posted by DaveD
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If one of those lies you exposed was about there being no out-country exchange, you are being disingenuous. I think it is quite safe to say regardless of the outcome, we will be able to exchange out of country.
No... it was 13303 and the notion that countries have to give 6 months notice to lop.
Again... Iraq has stated that the exchange will only take place at Banks in Iraq. As we discussed, I think the length of the exchange period and the extent to which Iraq tries to limit currency returning to the country will detirming if dealers get involved.
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That's the thing, though. The LOP vs RV has been debated 34893428095732057320570342 times already. Those who have made up their minds are not going to change it. The same things gets said over, and over, and over, and over again. It's like a severely broken record from the Twilight Zone.
So why continue to beat a dead horse? It may be fun for some, but it's actually quite pointless.
Don't you understand that everyday people are introduced to the dinar and those people head to the web to research it. They end up in places like this looking ofr information. Most baords totally ban anyone from talking about the lop possability. Other like here shove you into one little area. So new investors mostly only see the overwhelmingly positive talk. Do you think that's right?
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What do you expect? Even after this entire discussion you have the forum owner showing up and calling a certain group “losers”. That’s after attributing claims like this to lopsters. "GOD I'm miserable... how can I ruin someone's day today?"
As I explained to another poster earlier in the thread. I participate in a number of forums that have nothing to do with making money or investing. I talk sports, politics, and other subjects. I spent a lot of time researching the Iraqi dinar and currencies and economies in general. It is a subject that interests me. What is so horrible about me taking a few minutes a day to discuss with people the facts about the dinar. Just in the last two pages I dispelled two guru/pumper lies. The 13303 lie has existed for years. It was exposed as a lie years ago, but because people who understand that were banned from most sites, or stuck in a corner and ignored on other sites So the lie gets repeated over and over until it’s taken as fact. The investment is so full of those things they have even grown the label “Forum Facts”
Seems some just really have a problem with those lies being exposed.
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true, and so did the Soviet Union. But these were governments bent on stealing property from citizens. Iraq wouldn't dare do such a thing due to international political chaos and internal chaos.
I agree that they won't either. They have been openly talking about it for years already.
But there certainly is no rule that says any country has to give notice.
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i heard if they lop they must announce it 6 months in advance ..all the deletion storys are .. they will do it .. they wont do it ..they will do it .. they wont do it .. i think it has a certain time frame in advance they must notify the public .. they wont just lop and say suprise .. we all know there has been plenty of storys going back to april .. march time line /..the ones that count are the ones that come from the cbi i think .. im not sure if the govt will announce it ...and either way both the cbi and govt have said 1000 to one exchange and deletion of 3 zeros ..on new currency
i do know 5th third bank in ohio bought and sold iraqi dinars ...
That's another punmper lie. There is no rule or law saying they have to give a certain amount of warning. North Korea just recenlty lopped and gave a few days notice, then only gave a few days to exchange.
Plus... the Central Bank of Iraq has been announcing the plan to do this for years now.
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Perhaps I'm mistaken, but all we need is a local bank or currency dealer that has the ability and willingness to trade in country. And we already have currency dealers at least claiming they will do just that. So, imo, there isn't too much to worry about. Sure the dealers might charge a hefty fee, but we'll still have the ability to exchange the old notes. And if anything, maybe a bank will pop up that will do the same.
So to go on claiming that we will lose all of our money if or when Iraq only allows in-country exchange, is not recognizing the other avenues that will allow us to exchange our old notes out of country.
I don’t claim to know how this will play out. Best case they give two years to exchange, banks get involved, the fees are small and people lose very little. That’s the best case… small loss.
The worst case. There were a couple articles out last week where an Iraqi official who was against the redenomination said the two years was way to long with the concerns for counterfeiting and corruption. He said they should do the exchange in one day. ONE DAY. That would obviously be the worst case scenario. You lose everything, 100%. I certainly don’t believe they will do it in one day, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if they announce the lop, say they had originally planned a 2 year swap, but due to potential for corruption they have decided to only give a month or two, maybe 3 months like the last time. Banks wouldn’t get involved with such a short period like that. Dealers will only buy it back if they know for sure they have the means to get it back into Iraq for exchange. With everyone trying to sell back to dealers all at once, the price will plummet for what they will pay. Maybe $500 per million. Maybe lower. It will all depend on how long the exchange period is, and what rules Iraq puts on bringing currency back into the country.
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hey daved .. serious question .. where do you think the banks that were selling dinars got their dinars at?...and do you think citi bank if they set up offices in iraq ... do you think they will except dinars here and transfer them back to iraq ? and i never saw anything that said dinars either ..
I really don’t know where they got them from. I remember reading a claim from someone who bought from a bank that they informed him they got their dinar from a dealer. Someone like Ali.
I really have no idea. I do know that a number of banks have actually made warning about investing in dinar and have stated that they do not plan on dealing in dinar again.
Of course… if it turns out they can make money on the exchange, I wouldn’t be surprised if they start dealing them again
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Now... this is where the scammers came into play. This is what made the rounds on dinar boards.
IRAQ (PRWEB) March 2, 2004 -- Investment in the new Iraq is guaranteed under the Presidential Order 13303 removing sanctions on investment in Iraq. The new order allows for a restructuring of the banking system in Iraq. US citizens are allowed to invest in Currency, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate and Business in Iraq.
Iraq has a new currency to replace Iraq’s two currencies, one of which was easily counterfeited and mostly circulated in a single denomination. Banks issue only the new currency and government employees paid in cash will receive their salaries in the new currency. Until January 15, 2004 the old and new currencies will circulate freely at a fixed exchange rate. Exchange between the old and new currencies is conducted at now charge at multiple exchange points around the country.
The other financial market structures are strong:
95 percent of all pre-war bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily. Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. The central bank is fully independent. Iraq has one of the world’s most growth-oriented investment and banking laws.
The new Iraqi dinar which is printed bu De La Rue company in the US and Great Britian, is valued at just 2 tenths of one cent today. The US treasury has a strong dinar policy and is working with the CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority) to reinstate a strong decentralized banking system in Iraq. By December 2004 there will be six Western Banks in Iraq and six Iraqi Banks outside Iraq in operation. In March Three banks were given licence to operate in Iraq, National Bank of Kuwait, HSBC Bank and Charter bank of England.
That is horse crap. Look at the source. It's from PRWEB. PRWEB is a internet Press Release service. Anyone can make any claim they want, pay a fee to PRWEB and it gets dressed up as press release. Penny stock pumpers and scam artist use PRWEB to make claims look official.
Some dinar dealer wrote up a press release that is full of lies and paid PRWEB to run it.
Unless you think the Office of the President Of The United States is using PRWEB... LOL shaking my head.
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This is EO 13303. The whole thing.
Please show me where it says you can invest in dinar. Please show me where it even mentions dinar at all.
Executive Order
Executive Order Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq and Certain Other Property in Which Iraq Has An Interest
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), section 5 of the United Nations Participation Act, as amended (22 U.S.C. 287c) (UNPA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,
I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the threat of attachment or other judicial process against the Development Fund for Iraq, Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, obstructs the orderly reconstruction of Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the country, and the development of political, administrative, and economic institutions in Iraq. This situation constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.
I hereby order:
Section 1. Unless licensed or otherwise authorized pursuant to this order, any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void, with respect to the following:
(a) the Development Fund for Iraq, and
(
all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, in which any foreign country or a national thereof has any interest, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons. Sec. 2. (a) As of the effective date of this order, Executive Order 12722 of August 2, 1990, Executive Order 12724 of August 9, 1990, and Executive Order 13290 of March 20, 2003, shall not apply to the property and interests in property described in section 1 of this order.
(
Nothing in this order is intended to affect the continued effectiveness of any rules, regulations, orders, licenses or other forms of administrative action issued, taken, or continued in effect heretofore or hereafter under Executive Orders 12722, 12724, or 13290, or under the authority of IEEPA or the UNPA, except as hereafter terminated, modified, or suspended by the issuing Federal agency and except as provided in section 2(a) of this order. Sec. 3. For the purposes of this order:
(a) The term "person" means an individual or entity;
(
The term "entity" means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; © The term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any juris-diction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States;
(d) The term "Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products" means any petroleum, petroleum products, or natural gas originating in Iraq, including any Iraqi-origin oil inventories, wherever located; and
(e) The term "Development Fund for Iraq" means the fund established on or about May 22, 2003, on the books of the Central Bank of Iraq, by the Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority responsible for the temporary governance of Iraq and all accounts held for the fund or for the Central Bank of Iraq in the name of the fund.
Sec. 4. (a) The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulga-tion of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA and the UNPA as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this order. The Secretary of the Treasury may redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States Government. All agencies of the United States Government are hereby directed to take all appropriate measures within their statutory authority to carry out the provisions of this order.
(
Nothing contained in this order shall relieve a person from any requirement to obtain a license or other authorization in compliance with applicable laws and regulations. Sec. 5. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right, benefit, or privilege, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by a party against the United States, its departments, agencies, entities, officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
Sec. 6. This order shall be transmitted to the Congress and published in the Federal Register.
GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
May 22, 2003.
It can simply be broken down to this.
any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void, with respect to the following:
(a) the Development Fund for Iraq, and
(
all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments It has nothing to do with investing. It simply blocked lawsuits.
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Yeah, I suppose you are right. I can't imagine them not allowing out-country exchange.
I don't think I have ever heard of a country that redenominated allowing exchange outside of the country.
There have been 100 or so redenominations, every one of them was an in country only exchange. Maybe when all the Euro countries went to the Euro... but they we all going to the same currency.
Please find me a country that redenominatied and allowed exchnage outside the country.
Iraq has already stated they will only exchange at banks in Iraq.
I got a better one president bush and slick **** made the order to allow us citizens to invest in dinar because they are silent partners in the cbi and they know its worthless paper and they just laugh when u spend thousands on it
No such order exist. Paid pumper lies.
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Way to go, Dave. You missed the nuance of my point yet again. They could LOP tomorrow, but it would be a failure without a stable government.
Stable is a relative term. They seem to feel they are stable enough at this time to lop.
These forums will be long gone by time the verdict is in on whether it's a success or not.
And I totally got the nuance of your post. I just thought that now that you understand a country should have a stable economy and gov before redenominating, you could explain to all the RVrs that's why it's taken so long.
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Without a fully-functioning government, it hardly seems the way for Iraq to go. It's a recipe for disaster.
So when the RV crowd ask the question over and over and over again "Why haven't they lopped yet if it's a neutral event?"
You can explain to them that they need a stable gov first.
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There is not one country in the world that could back 100% of their currency.
Roadrunner
Funny.. because Iraq does axactly that.
Iraq is under a Stand by Arrangement program with the IMF. That is why the rate is called a program rate.
Under this arrangement they have to file a letter intent. They state in the letter on intent that they FULLY back their currency and that they plan to continue to back it FULLY in the future.
Iraq has about 72 trillion dinar M2. at .00086 per dinar that is $62 billion.
There have been dozens of articles talking about their record FX reserves of... I think it was $62 billion.
This is not a coincidence.
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That was six years ago, Dave. I presume you have since gotten out of the investment completely. And again, why are you still concerned? Wouldn't your time be more wisely spent on a "better" investment than to hanging around here with all of us "losers?" Oh, that's right. You're vying for sainthood. Good luck with that.
This is one of the more simple-minded comments thrown at lopsters on a regular basis.
I participate in a number of discussion forums. Sports, politics, and other subjects. None of which do I have $$ invested in. Exposing scams is just one of my interests.
Do you only participate in discussions about things you stand to monetarily gain from?
LOL… heck, 95% of your posts here aren’t even about the subject at hand.
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The Kuwaiti dinar is pegged to a basket of currencies. The rate changes daily, but not by much.
Take a loook.
http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/KWD/USD/T
6/22/2012 Friday .28028
6/24/2012 Sunday .28033
6/25/2012 Monday .28050
6/26/2012 Tuesday .28031
6/27/2012 Wednesday .28058
6/28/2012 Thursday .28083
6/29/2012 Friday .27983
6/30/2012 Saturday .27840
7/1/2012 Sunday .27843
7/2/2012 Monday .28026
7/3/2012 Tuesday .27992
7/4/2012 Wednesday .28080
7/5/2012 Thursday .28080
7/6/2012 Friday .28164
7/7/2012 Saturday .28338
7/8/2012 Sunday .28381
7/9/2012 Monday .28121
7/10/2012 Tuesday .28177
7/11/2012 Wednesday .28182
7/12/2012 Thursday .28186
7/13/2012 Friday .28145
7/14/2012 Saturday .28147
7/15/2012 Sunday .28140
7/16/2012 Monday .28141
7/17/2012 Tuesday .28175
7/18/2012 Wednesday .28163
7/19/2012 Thursday .28175
i agree .. but if they dump them they wont need to be backed ....just like they are saying they will delete 3 zeros and convert them at 1000 ol for one new .. 999 out of a thousand wont need to be backed ..also ..
I didn't read muxh past this... because there is no way they would do this.
People in Iraq alreaedy don't trust banks, and you think they should just wipe out all bank accounts. So any one who put their money in a bank looses everything?
Not even worth thinking about. They would NEVER do such a thing.
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The dollar get is value from supply and demand. If Iraq was to try to do the same thing this would be the comparison.
Supply for dollars about 13 trillion I think.
Supply for dinar, 72 trillion
So Iraq has over 5 times more supply.
Demand for currency comes from economic activity conducted in that currency.
Demand for the US dollar is a 14 Trillion dollar GDP, plus many countries use dollars to fuel their own economies.
Iraq has a 100 billion dollar economy, but 80 or so percent of that is oil sales which are denominated in dollars. So they have very little demand for dinars.
Just on DGP numbers, without considering the other countries using dollars, the demand for US dollars is 140 times more than the Iraq dinar.
5 times more supply with 140 times less demand doesn’t come close to equaling 1:1
5x140 is 700.
So that would be my rosiest best prediction for the dinar on the forex. 700 to 1$
In reality it wouldn’t be that close because those other factors would be taken into account.
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Basket??? Both of you guys are bit confused. The dinar is pegged to the US dollar, and only the US dollar.
You might be thinking about reserves. A small part of their FX reserves are in Euros, but mainly they are in dollars.
If the dinar was pegged to a basket of currencies then you would see the value changing as those currencies in the basket changed. The fact that the dinar maintains a constant value against the dollar (except when the CBI intentionally pips it up) is proof that it is pegged against the dollar. I don’t follow the value against the euro, but I would guess the value against the Euro ebbs and flows just as the dollar against the Euro ebbs and flows.
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so we must decide if iraq always had 30 trillion dinars .. and thats the original dinar .. or if they always had 28 billion dinars .. and thats the original dinar ..
From the CBI
http://www.cbi.iq/documents/Annual_2002f.pdf
Scroll down to page five. Money supply
In 1991 they 24.6 BILLION
It's a good document for the history of the dinar.
Pumpers and gurus do not like it because it proves alot of their claims are made up lies.
Scroll down to page 17 and you'll see the actual axchange rates for the dinar.
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The pertinent point is that if the CBI were to cite as well the aftermath of Turkey's RD as a presumed model for success, then Iraq is certainly doomed to the same failure. I have not seen an acknowledgement from the CBI of any such status regarding Turkey's RD aftermath. I believe it is what American football fans would call a "head fake."
Redenominations are simply to reset or restart the currency after high inflationary periods have destroyed its value. Perfect example, Iraq.
There are arguments each way about its effects on the currency’s value after the lop. Some will claim it will give confidence to dinar holders that the high inflation is over and they now have a currency with more value per unit. Some will argue the opposite, that changing the currency will cause people to lose confidence in it. Like most things, there are two side of a coin. It’s pretty safe to say that the CBI who wants to lop, is overstating the positive benefits. Just as the officials who would like to hold off the lop are overstating the negatives.
They’re both posturing. The future of the dinar will be effected by economic policy in the years following the lop. If I was going to put a % of effect number on things. I’d say the lop has maybe a 5% effect on future value, and economic policy has about 95% effect.
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Turkey's RD failed.
So you believe absolutely nothing in articles except this one guy who according to you, CLAIMS the redenomination didn’t work.
It’s funny because you rip others for what you see as grammar errors. Yet you take this statement and display the reading comprehension of a second grader.
You even highlighted the key part of the statement. “due to lack of strong economic policies, their currencies failed to gain notable value”
In no way does it clam the redenomination didn’t work. It says the economic policies were not strong and that lead to no gain.
Here is a chart of the Turkish Lira
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/turkey/currency
If you start the chart at the beginning of 2004 you will see the Lira was about 1.4 to $1 at the time of the redenomination. About 4 ½ years later the Lira had increased in value to about 1.2 Lira to the dollar. It would take a strange mind to conclude that the loss of value around the end of 2008 was the result of the redenomination at the beginning of 2004.
A normal mind would look at that a see a stable currency for almost five years and say the redenomination was quite a success.
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An article, if articles are to be believed, just posted by Carello in the News section states:
Read more:
I am sure that this is precisely what Iraq wants too.
If the article is to be believed, they will lop as of the first of the year.
Not sure why you chose to highlight the opinion of a naysayer. The pertinent question is, will they lop or not? The answer to that seems to be yes. Who cares whether the lop will be a success or not? It will be years after the lop before that question can be answered and this scam will be over by then. Unless the gurus and pumpers can convince people they will raise the exchange rate of the new dinar to 1000 Dollars per dinar. Which is really no different that what they are claiming the current dinar will do. Sounds a bit silly doesn't it.
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Maybe when I said to ignore u san he listened and now u just jump to every thread in the lop section baiting people for entertainment which I find rather childish but I guess your entitled to do as u please I guess ill go read some off topic posts
San's posts are the epitome of "off topic".
A more appropriate scree name for him would be Sanspoint
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After the zeros are deleted, and a 1-to-1 rate is established, that candy bar will cost $15. Only people who shop at The Gardens Mall in Jupiter, Florida would pay that much for a lousy candy bar.
For someone as critical as you of other english skills... you sure do have poor math skills.
1500 dinar, lop 3 zeros becomes 1.5 dinar, not 15 dinar
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Your gratuitous use of the ellipsis suggests that perhaps you, Keepmwlknfny, are speaking for yourself in the third person.
Is "legitimacy" a thing to be determined only by virtue of consensus? If that is the case, then I beg to differ.
So you went from one ridiculously petty argument right to another inane attack.
While it might not be technically correct to use … as a pause in speech. It gets used that way all the time in chat rooms and message boards.
So… lighten up Francis.
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the reason why u believe in a lop according to adam
in LOPster tank
Posted
You are more than welcome to pull over any post you’ve seen me make on any other site. I post as Stew on Iraq Business News and posted as Aerospace on IHUB. Please go through as much of my stuff as you would like. I’m sure you might find a few examples of where I’ve rolled in the mud, but I think I’ve tried to keep a large majority of my post about the facts and figures surrounding the dinar.
Now I see I’m being called a despicable shill for the western banking system. LOL… too funny. I thought it was the western banking system that was planning this massive RV to save the world economies and make everyone millionaires.