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Hi again Trinity. I agree with all the points you are making having researched the items you've detailed in the past, however I do not feel that this is the right way to go that's all. Just my perspective, however I would add that I shared yours for a time, however the actions required felt like a trap in other ways. The understanding though is very important to me. As a creditor are you not still being manipulated, just in a more subtle way because you will then ensure that you act (conform in line with an idea) as a creditor which will be a change in your behaviour and actions from previously, therefore resulting in different direct and indirect consequences. And at the same time a creditor would also serve a purpose for his manipulator (the entity in control of or influencing the debtor/creditor system, ie it's rules/concepts and/or system agents, which have other effects and actions), since the entities controlling the creditor's experience ie the media he views subliminally shaping his will and he then unwittingly (or knowingly of course if you so choose) manipulates the debtors to an extent because he has a greater amount of energy (meaning both physical energy if you pay your debts without having to labour aside from administratively, as well as actual currency) to disperse as per your will and desire and choice into the greater economy giving you a greater influence over the perceived "natural" actions of others more of which are in response to the demand for whatever you want (will-creation)... and of course this new found perceived freedom as a creditor opens the doors to broader experiences and further changes in behaviours and will as a result and so on the cycle repeats... and breather We know not what we do and most of the time are unaware of the full consequences to our actions in my opinion. The pyramid goes higher than the debtor/creditor relationship I feel - and there are more "enemy concepts" , traps and spectacular things to discover, learn and overcome down the rabbit hole. Don't mind me, I'm just trying to discover all there is and I think that by confining myself to one position or perspective one would not be able to accomplish that so I'm choosing the path that I think will get me there instead meaning I have to consider that things are as they are right now for a good reason underneath all the smoke and mirrors and layers of manipulation despite how it feels. Changes are clearly occurring under the surface and I don't think there's long to wait until the position of the everyman will feel like a different world when compared to what we share today. Thread well and truly hijacked lol. Really sorry. I'm going to duck out of this now, I have a lot on at the moment. I'm not sure what all this UCC stuff has to do with the dinar, or its backing, though. it shows that all things are possible, i.e. seemingly outrageous rate predictions.

A very good point made by Trinity - being an enemy of the system was mentioned. Any enemy controls you because your actions bear him in mind and are influenced by him. This thing is all a mind game.

I need to add to this thread that whilst comprehending it I have not chosen to adopt the path of commercial redemption nor is it my recommendation at an individual level. This perspective is however useful in determining future events to some degree. I think there are other ways to go on an individual basis but its tough to find the words because that rabbit hole goes a long way. So, to respond to Trinity - it's only forceful if I choose to view it that way rather than choosing to accept it, in which case the consequences of doing the opposite are irrelevant and the force aspect no longer exists because it never had the chance to manifest since I have chosen not to recognise it. In terms of the present experience not being right or as one would want - I wholeheartedly agree - however I choose to feel and therefore act otherwise because the issue can and will be beaten from a different angle in due course in my opinion.. all that occurs is simply necessary for us to evolve in our behaviours via new ideas, concepts and creations as a collective, all things which arise out of the conditions created by the collision of the feelings of force felt by most with their reciprocally projected natural instinct for freedom from manipulation. This area of confusion and frustration and the illusory precipice that the media and the world have us all convinced we're in was the intention as I understand it through the division of people via a class system, and the want for freedom from the manipulation is a manipulation itself to stimulate the creation process inside us into a shift of gears via discovery and imaginative response through contrived necessity created by the competing forces within the nature of man. I say we just don't have the answers or the right ideas or behaviours as yet, for if we did things would be much better. It can't be long now until between us we overcome all this - and the dinar is a way of making this period of time easier for those that are learning faster than others,... crumbs from the table to an extent to help us on our way or a gift from nature to help overcome our own stupidity as a specie (lol). In the meantime, the position of creditor brings with it other complications and likely would end up as a full time job(!) since the role is there to serve a purpose in creating the above mentioned conditions, and comes with greater administrative obligations than are required by the default debtor position with ever-changing requirements that are difficult to sustain correctly. This whole system will eventually not be needed - only once the change in attitudes and experiences takes place for the world's population following this current low the majority are experiencing as their feelings and next the imminently coming super-high around the corner within which by experiencing collective and individual abundance firstly via the system will our concepts of relative value change and our attitude to one another accordingly based on our collective advancement down to the individual level. the dinar is also a precursor to this attitude and this abundance going mainstream - many will use their "windfall" for the benefit of others as it will allow them to change their attitudes through being financially comfortable, and this itself will contribute to the changing in attitude and actions of the general population. the law is a tool to get us there it seems despite feeling like a jack boot to the throat at times due to its use. "the plan" and methodology used to date could have been better in my opinion! If one were to practice the principals of commercial redemption, one would at the same time be manipulating the conditions of others as others have done to me in the past. I'm not sure that's my role... it doesn't seem like the right thing because it perpetuates the situation which one cannot approve of without being hypocritical of one's view that the use of force, or perceived force, is wrong. All speculative opinion. And fun Perhaps some of these concepts apply at all sorts of levels of existence.

I cannot speculate at this time on a rate range, however I am working on this to an extent, although to be honest I'm not that fussed. I will say however that the statement "no-one on this earth knows or can know" cannot be true. Everything is discoverable whether we are privvy to the detail or have none at all; it is simply reliant on finding the correct connection with other events and the detail revealing itself via synchronicity. My opinion is that the rate will open higher than most expect and then rise given the purpose of this whole endeavour, and before you ask, there are in my opinion numerous purposes depending on the perspective you share. One will be cashing asap though. Can it be $1-$1IQD? Yes is my answer. How can that be justified? Given my previous thread comments, I feel it prudent to instead ask why can it not be justified - this is the more appropriate question. In terms of facts and figures etc, these are irrelevant to a degree (I know most won't like me saying that!) and serve only to maintain the illusion as to how things work. The rate is decided upon and then the facts and figures created to suit - which is obviously a long and cumbersome operation because these facts and figures must tie up with other information within the public domain (hence the length of time this has taken!) and must therefore be created by seemingly legitimate tasks and events. Things get a bit hazy when you start discussing this and to fully understand, the concept of how time and space operate need to be understood too! Alas I'm not having that conversation today lol. The control from the top reaches down to the nth degree. The people involved in all this think they are making their own choices and doing what they want, but like everyone else, they are being used. To quote Captain America - we are all pawns in a larger game! I have to go now - take care all.

The thing about the interest, is that it creates, via a debtor working to create further . It is in this manner that the world has progressed, because it is reliant on the perpetual creation of further "money" (will/energy). If awareness of the system functionality were better, and therefore the will was there anyway, interest would not be necessary. Similarly, we probably wouldn't view interest as a problem since we could pay it without labouring for it, thus removing the perceived slavery element. As it is, those in control deemed it necessary in order to keep the wheels moving because there was no will amongst the general populace to push the limits and create further. This time may however be coming to an abrupt end. It is often said that only at the precipice of destruction will people change, or perhaps more accurately, evolve. I think it's safe to say that we're on the precipice..

In respect of the comments regarind fiat currency being worthless.. this is another example of divide and conquer. You're picking a side. Pick a side and you lose. The trick is to simply be aware. One could argue that the concept of value, is as subjective as anything. Accordingly, something may be of great value to one person and no value to someone else. Since in the milk-patron scenario you paint you have both accepted the offer from the other party, the answer to "did we exchange value for value" is actually Yes. The fact that the "money" is merely a promise on a piece of paper is irrelevant; the recipient only can determine what he himself values said note as and therefore in accepting it he is accepting that the exchange is value for value, as are you through your actions despite your words suggesting the contrary. Actions speak louder than words my friend - and the law recognises this. The fact that others also accept that these pieces of paper have value, is not a problem, it is a blessing. This invention effectively means that energy is being created out of nothing but promises. That energy is created as a result of the apparent value of a note which creates WILL - the will for someone to do something, be it work or creation, because they see a reward at the end. It is therefore effectively a system that allows unlimited energy, so it is a WILL-CREATION-MACHINE (lol). Without that will, there is no innovation, and less sharing due to fear, and the negative spiral continues. With regard to the courts, they are all simply administrative, and deal with whatever colour of law they are presented with - jurisdiction generally being set by actions rather than words (if it's words, these tend to create an action anyway through the filing of x form etc). They appear corrupt, however they are not in the main - this is simply how it appears when one does not comprehend what is happening correctly. If you argue a "debt" whether you view it as fictional or not, given you accepted it at the time, you are now in dishonour without the debt being paid (be that through your labour or through administrative.. which I presume you know about. There is another way. Bitterness and resentment towards the system is all that is holding the world back. The entire point of the system, is a stepping stone to something better. We've had substance backed. This creates haves and have-nots because the substances are scarce, and controlled by whomever is strongest. The fiat system attempted to address this, but due to poor use (arguably, others would say via intention, and others again would say intentionally but for the right reasons) this has made things worse. It has however opened people's eyes, and changed some attitudes, and has served as part of the learning curve. Eventually, money as a concept will be redundant due to a change in people's attitudes and wills; they will choose to help one another without force (or necessity for laws ie rules), be that force overt or implied. However, to reach this point, the current system must first be explained and used so that all can benefit. Once all are thriving, only then will people realise that they don't need the system, and all is accomplished through attitudes and will. Or not. We could just keep this tool... just remember that's all it is, a tool, not a weapon, nor a prison, unless we choose to view it that way. Currently, the world is full of wars and disagreements. Those rebelling against the system are equally culperable with those in control; it takes two to tango Those in control believe they are doing what is necessary to save the people from themselves, and therefore the more you rebel, the tighten their grip on you will become. Want freedom? Let go! The road would be a lot smoother. We will reach our destination one way or the other, but through rebellion, this journey will be painful and the destination not necessarily the one we would wish due to the control inflicted upon our minds shaping our thoughts and consequently shaping reality around us. Violence and rebellion, begets violence and rebellion by the opposing force that is always created as a resort. It is perpetual and can only be broken by one side taking the higher ground! So, back to value. It is your choice not to recognise the value, however it is this that dooms the system and could return the world to scarcity. I fully appreciate why you have made that choice, however recognising the value with full awareness of what you are doing and why would present a different choice - and the terms of the debate would no longer be controlled as they currently are. Enhance the system and enhance the world; it's only achievable through acceptance through awareness. Currently you are your own worst enemy; some would say confused since your actions do not match your words. Those in control, are effectively machines. They are blinded in their actions by their beliefs. Make some changes in your heads and see how they start to act differently all of a sudden... it's happening before our very eyes right now but most remain unable to see it.

If you review the Modern Money Mechanics article you will discover that all currency is your credit! Indeed. However this need not be an issue, it is simply a matter of perspective, and the subjective nature of words means that many will take this as being a bad thing. It is more division and conquer; rather than dividing you against your neighbour, it divides you and your neighbour from those in control... the end result being that you won't take it anymore at some point and will physically rebel. This is NOT the answer. Those in control are part of you too, no different from your neighbour. You are all One. Credit is merely a pledge of energy in the future. However given most monies are created against the trust of the individual receiving that money, said credit does not need to be repaid, unless someone other than yourself controls said trust and demands repayment. There is nothing wrong with not having control, the issue lies with who actually controls it instead, and their intentions. For the past few decades it has been controlled by individuals seeking to line their own pockets at the same time as "teaching us a lesson" (a harsh one!) in order to raise us all as one, however this is soon to change.

The Federal Reserve is not the big baddie everyone thinks. Yet it has acted that way from our perception, however consider theirs... They have taken control of countries, as many people accept, albeit with disgust. What needs to be realised is that it is countries and sovereign states that want to live under a substance backed system which created scarcity and a division between a wealthy elite and the rest of us. The FED sought to change this, and fiat currency is a major tool. The big problem with their actions to date however, is that they believe the ends justify the means (as well as individual greed clouding the matter). They believe they have to lie, and cheat, and steal, in order to create a better future for us all. The fact is, this better future can be arrived at without going through all the pain, and without the lies etc, if only they would instead raise everyone's understanding. In due course, countries will regain control likely temporarily, however all will soon realise that is not beneficial to most of us. So whilst the FED is acting badly imo, the way it is set up, the international infrastructure that the private establishments have set up across the globe are perfect to be used for our actual benefit. All that is needed is an adjustment in perspective by those in control of it, or their replacement.

Hello. This is my first post. I've been lurking for quite some time, and registered as a member earlier this year and was a VIP for a short while. I have generally chosen not to post in the past given the disrespect shown to many self-professed gurus, who, although getting it wrong much of the time, have offered truthful insight in a number of ways and on a number of occasions. Much of their commentary is beyond the comprehension of the masses given that the majority of the world's populace is not equipped with the true facts as to how finance, commerce, and the law actually work (I could go further to include the universe here but that's another discussion), given that schools, universities and modern text books all omit huge issues that when known change one's perception of what was previously considered a common truth or accepted fact. The same can be said for the gurus, who, whilst are equipped with more facts than the majority, their version of "the truth" is still not the full pictue either, hence their continued perceived failure to date. Anyway, I wanted to respond to this thread given this appears to be a common issue of confusion. I apologise now for the length of post, however many basic assumptions must be overturned if one is to understand this investment. It is a fallacy that fiat currencies are not backed by anything. They are backed by the faith that a country is able to pay off it's "promises to pay" (which is all that your notes are); it doesn't matter how, so this naturally includes assets. Some background is needed to understand how this actually works in practice, and how it is accomplished administratively is nothing short of amazing in one's honest opinion. The current economic system is actually a world-wide bankruptcy system whereby all countries operate as if they were in bankruptcy as far as law is concerned, the US included (for confirmation regarding the USA, look up comments made by Jim Traficant). This is the only way in law that fiat currencies can be implemented. Accordingly, the economic system is an entity that is wholly owned and controlled (and often manipulated) by those creditors holding the banktruptcy liens; property rights dictate that they can do what they want with their property. People will naturally cry that this is a conspiracy theory here, however if they were to do the research they would find that the facts are out there and fully documented. Hence the current perceived meltdown is a controlled demolition, but from the highest levels, so even those corporations people deem as having been pulling the strings are subject to their creators, and in turn those are subject to the creators of the system. Fortunately, the system's creator is sorting things out and pulling the plug on many of these guys (scapegoating!), hence this is why it appears that at one level there is a battle for control going on; the truth is that there is only going to be one winner and this is predetermined by contractual obligation. That winner is all of us - eventually. This is why people feel their rights have been stolen. What has actually occurred is that you have given your consent to exchange these natural rights for privileges determined by those in charge. The larger commerical system of law that the bankruptcy economy sits within is where transactions of actual substance take place, and where gold and other substances are the currency, and this is the system within which creditors play. At this level, statutes of law are irrelevant, since their jurisdiction is limited to the debtors, ie all those people who do not realise the part they play in the world. This is the reason why it so often appears as there being "one law for them and one for us"; it is because that is the case! However all are in the position they are in via their own consent, hence it feels unjust that some are prosecuted for an offence that others will not be, however it is all about jurisdiction and contractual obligation and one's current place in the world; we all have the ability to rise up beyond it, however it is a philosophical journey to some extent that many don't have the will to pursue. In fact, this is largely why this has remained undiscoverd by the masses; people police themselves and the rest of society using ridicule and assertions that something is a conspiracy theory or people are nut-jobs etc. People would do well to remember: condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance (Einstein). One must also remember the legal adage of "he who has the gold must pays the bills"; it is the creditors are responsible for a countries well-being, or not. Any person who is not aware that this is the case, is lawfully a debtor to these creditors, no matter how much "money" one thinks they have, since this "money" is actually only a promise to pay the creditor in energy, in the future. In law, all have given their consent for this to be the case, through their tacit acceptance and use of the system, hence their current legal status of being subject to statutes etc whether they deem them unfair or unlawful or not. (There are many films serving as metaphors for this concept: creditors are oftern depicted as vampires... they suck your blood, or rather your life force, ie your energy). Democracy, has two faces. On one side and at face value, it is allowing the people control of their destiny. On the other, it is a tool to make people believe they have a say when really they do not. It is mob rule where the majority wins, however the majority can be manipulated as you see today with the press and its consolidated ownership by a few. The rule of law, and constitutions etc, were put in place to prevent this manipulation and safe guarding basic rights so one cannot be persecuted as a minortiy via new laws (really just rules you have agreed to)... (there is no protection today - some minorities are protected but others are not). However, these constitutions do not apply to debtors within the system since they have given up that right by their own consent! The next stage is either to remove this layer of illusory control via commerce and go back to the consitution etc, or raise the understanding of all so that full use can be made of the systems that have been invented for the benefit of all. This choice is not clear in the public eye therefore a return to constitutional rule is the common solution put forth due to people being ignorant that there are other solutions, however this will result in a situation of scarcity, and an uprising of people who are going without. All of it is only possible because neither side of the argument understands the facts of the matter. So, back to the point,. the faith in being able to repay, is a reflection of the assets that a country has, which whilst in many cases will include substances such as gold and oil etc which have themselves been monetised within the bankruptcy system through the creation of legal title against an entity (person) who themselves are assets of the country, the majority of a currency's value is backed by the assets known as... the people, and their propensity to work (to labour and create motion) and pay taxes. The people, via the process of birth registration (check your birth certificate, it is bank note paper) are technically the assets or chattels of the country (again, techincally this is on a temporary basis however because people don't realise or choose not to reject this it is effectively permanent), and therefore a country can secure loans etc against their collateral, ie people (hence there is no political will to reduce immigration - more people equals more collateral). Currencies work the same way, and assuming everyone realised this is what backs fiat currencies, said currencies would always have value as long as there are people prepared to work and can do, since currencies are a reflection of energy, and are a tool to control and direct the flow of energy (and largely here I mean labour), or even save it for a later date. This is why security, infrastructure and industry are so important and such a big focus before the revaluing of the Iraqi currency, since during the war years there has been no ability for people to effectively work and therefore be taxed (and consequently the currency had little or no value). The revaluing will effectively correspond to the monetisation of the people by creating conditions to allow them to operate in the same manner as other countries, thereby backing the currency by their energy for the most par. People themselves have a value to a country, and these values are calculated based on all manner of criteria including birth-weight, gender etc using an internationally agreed (or rather centrally set) algorithm within admiralty laws ; this enables countries to quantify the energy that it's populace can contribute to the economy for use in determining currency values etc.One must remember that oil is valuable because it is energy; but the people are also a form of energy, given that without them corporations would be worthless since nothing can happen without a pair of hands to do it, and in fact people have a greater value given that said energy is largely unlimited. This, coupled with their vast natural resources, is why Iraq's currency could be very strong. Largely their population is very young which is another bonus, as therefore they have considerable energy, many years of work ahead of them, and the older population that would rely on consuming the energy of others, is largely irrelevant due to their low numbers following the wars. Extra. All those who feel corporations should be taxed more fail to understand that corporations cannot be taxed since it is only the workers that put anything in; accordingly it is the workers who are actually being taxed. The word corporation is derived from cooperation. The idea of a corporation was to pool energy for the collective benefit, however they system has been perverted for the benefit of the handul at the top, and today we take this as standard despite it not being how things were meant to be. Some will say this was a necessity due to the lack of understanding by the majority, however I would argue that a better approach would have been to raise people's understanding instead so all work together for the benefit of all. The truth is, there is no need for tax at all. What it occurring is the division and conquering of the people so that you will submit to the forthcoming solution of a centralised top down led dictatorship; one side wants benefits etc for everyone and high tax on high earners, the other sees this as unfair that they are working hard and paying for others and therefore they want reduced taxes and less benefits. The truth is that we can have the best of both worlds.... and a centralised system would offer great advantages, but only if achieved with the masses having full understanding and consciously consenting. There is no need to give up sovereignty, boundaries or any of these other illusory things, provided everyone has full awareness - something the interent is helping to deliver. If a country authorises a centralised power to act on its behalf, it can withdraw that consent and authorisation at any time, provided it is represented by persons of honesty, integrity, and full awareness to the facts. The same holds true on an individual level - it is simply a case of understanding the correct administrative methods to adjust one's legal status. If you don't like something, step out of the jurisdiction - and this does not mean you actually have to move! The invention of double entry bookkeeping, together with the system of birth registration and therefore value quantifying of individuals could be used to provide all services we currently have without the need for taxation to pay for it. The money is already there, just held in trust because the people are unaware so they will not take it back. Far better would be for people to know, but still leave it there for the benefit of all - services could then be paid for using these trusts and money never needs to be repaid to anyone because it is only yourself that you would owe. Currently banks seemingly create money - what is actually occurring is that they are monetising a loan application, where people are promising to pay back $x via their labour (energy). This can work the same for benefits - money can be created for someone's unemployment cheque by the authorising the access of their personal trust (based on your birth certificate) and creation of money against their name, however as above, there is no need to repay yourself! The current push by many parties to return to substance backed currencies, ie precious metals etc, is a deception. It may however occur for a short while, effectively between banktruptcy terms. This is the end of the 70 years banktruptcy term within which countries find themselves, and therefore this is a major opportunity. Understandably many parties who have discovered they are being used as collateral are unhappy with this and are trying to break free, ie the conspiracy theory movement. What they fail to understand is that fiat currencies are an invention, an idea, to be used for the benefit of mankind. They have taken us a long way in developing the world, and although leverage is a dirty word, the progress that has been made would not have been without fiat currencies and leverage etc. The problem has been that the trustees of the national bankruptcy states have colluded to benefit themselves at the expense of the people (from one perspective - although from their own they are doing it for your benefit, to teach you). The current time is a time where these trustees can be changed due to the end of the term, and the system can be used for the benefit of all rather than just a few, if only everyone had full awareness of the issues. So the major piece still required to finish this puzzle, is for people to actually realise all this. The debts do not need to be repaid. Yes the debts have acted as a yoke round people's necks, however in the language of law, this has been via our own consent. Now is the time to wake up! There is never anyone to blame but one's self. All debts can be paid off instantly via the correct administrative process by a person with the correct status in law, and this is all going to occur anyway despite people not realising what the problem actually is (and therefore it being impossible for them to see a solution). Many people believe that they need to be freed from the current system. It should be considered that freedom comes in many forms. I would argue that people would be freer if thay understood and could use the system correctly and therefore remain in this effective bankruptcy situation but via choice and awareness rather than deception, as opposed to withdrawing from the system altogether and therefore not receiving any of the great benefits as a substance backed system would deliver. Because said substances are finite, this type of system creates a scenario of scarcity and fear (of not having enough!) and therefore hoarding, self-centred focus, and consequently war (often this feels out of duty to protect one's neighbour, however it is an illusion!). Fiat systems allow abundance due to the energy being unlimited and help reduce said fear, provided there is conscious consent and awareness of the true system mechanism. Freedom is having choice. Currently people think they have choice, but they largely do not - they are forced either via peer pressure, "laws" of society, and most importantly deceptive tactics of subliminial conditioning to make them think that a thought is there own, when it has simply been suggested to them. To touch on the universal level, it is fear that maintains the world's problems. Remove it, and the world would be a much happier place. All this can only be achieved via education as to the true mechanisms of the current systems. A good start would be the removal of tax! (Taxes go to the creditors, not on benefits for the debtors - these benefits are paid for using the exact method I suggest ie double entry book-keeping and trust accounts via your application for said benefits, however the deception is that you are told that your taxes pay for these benefits hence dividing you from your neighbour who is receiving the benefits of what you perceive to be your labour but in reality it is his own money, you're just both being conned). This may not make any sense to most, but I hope for some, it may strike a chord. I wrote this out quickly in one go so if it reads as disjointed I apologise... just offering a perspective. I happily accept criticism and abuse given I have chosen to post this with my eyes open. It is a difficult subject to write about given there are just so many angles and so many assumptions that must be broked and replaced with new ones. Have a good day guys. Please keep this in Rumours as it will not get read in Perspectives. And treat it as entertainment