Jim1cor13

There are many things that alter or change our DNA on a daily basis, we simply cannot escape it. So technically, whether it is a vaccine (in the case of mRNA injections, they are genetic therapy not a vaccine), forced upon people that instructs our cells to create various proteins that can cause bodily harm or death in some, or using a "cell" phone or eating foods with various residues of chemicals or pesticides, we are all affected and altered at the genetic level to some degree, not always in a good way. Some of these things we are exposed to can cause cancer or a variety of imbalances within our bodies at the genetic level. https://www.learning-mind.com/4-everyday-things-that-can-change-your-dna/

Believing that hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, volcanic activity are “God’s punishment” reduces the divine to human terms and anyone who would use such events to harm its own creation would make them nothing more but a tyrant. This means twisted men created a god in their own image, one that uses threats and destruction and the murder of innocents in order to make a point and control others via FEAR. The opposite of love is fear. Nothing constructive can come from trying to push fear upon everyone, in fact, doing this is the exact opposite of mercy and compassion. If according to John, "God is love"...then following something that finds it necessary to murder its own creation in order to make a point should cause everyone to rethink what it is they believe and follow. Terrible events and disasters have been a part of this world for millions of years, and will continue to be a part of this world, because earth is ever changing, all the natural disasters that occur prove this fact. The ancients witnessed terrible events that killed millions of people...volcanoes, earthquakes, destructive weather phenomenon, and the only thing they could assume was that a god was angry, and was trying to get peoples attention. It is called superstition, and has ruled many religions for tens of thousands of years and is alive and well today because threats and fear always work to gain control over others. Life is difficult enough in this bizarre realm without choosing to use certain events and trying to sell them as proof that a god is angry and is about to destroy everyone but a few that joined his club. To me, the claims being made in this thread reduce god to little more than a human psychopath, willing to murder indiscriminately and some trying to justify it as if it was normal. No one here will challenge these narratives because they usually receive in return condemnation and intimidation because apparently no one is allowed to challenge or question such dark twisted ideas. Go ahead and tear me apart for thinking for myself and finding this thread borderline disgusting that has no purpose but to suck the life out of everyone that views it. If your god chooses to resort to these murderous steps in order to make point, he is not a god, but a tyrant. In fact, perhaps you should ban me, because I dared to stand up and challenge this insanity. You know exactly what you are doing, and it is the opposite of everything you claim to stand for. Why not focus upon your thread "Acts of Love"...it would be so much more constructive and healthier for your mind rather than getting swallowed up by the angry wrathful deity who apparently enjoys destruction and killing more than mercy and love, which means we were all lied to and are more than alone in this world. So be it, that would be more tolerable than following this manner of mind rape and mental gymnastics. What ever happened to "Perfect Love casts out fear"? Humanity does not need more fear and threats...especially coming from religious tyrants, but history shows us it is all too common, unfortunately. Choose light, you are better than this Scott.

All good points friend. Been within the system many years as mentioned, have no desire to reply the train wreck I witnessed as a young man within that system...not "JW" but within that system called "the church". It was just my experience, my version of speaking for myself. Few dared to do that, but I tried. Learned a few things along the way also, that were so far outside of tradition, it just made some folks angry. I was a youth director and teacher, studied for years and realized how much was so twisted that was being taught, and as mentioned, when I questioned the "literal" traditional narrative and countering it with ancient hebrew and greek languages, it made people angry, and funny how they no longer "loved" me. Much of it was based upon certain words that were taken literally, yet could not be translated properly, such as "eternal" (aion signifying a period of time, so not at all unending), "hell" (often wrongly translated based upon ancient mythology version of a place of suffering and torment but actually in most cases it means "grave") etc., and it was mind blowing, but oddly people just had to have the "hell" narrative because without it they felt they had nothing to hold over someone, to push that "convert or die" message hid under "god loves you". Anyway, it is human nature for people to want others to believe as they do...they really do not care if it is "truth", they just want YOU to speak their opinion. When anyone digs deeper into the languages used and learns to read with an open focused mind, one can begin to spot the fallacies that are held as "truth". Keep learning, we all do hopefully, but to bicker about these matters that not ONE single person can "prove beyond a shadow of a doubt", is time wasted i think. We have claims, some people believe those claims. It is ok, their choice, as it is my choice to not get involved in a system that presents the angry wrathful "gods" narratives that do little more than suck the life out of creation. There is MORE to the story...and of course, religion itself has lied to all of us in many ways. Some see it, some refuse due to fear. My motto...treat others as you desire to be treated...learn to love rather than live in fear. Anything outside of THAT is noise. Just my opinion. If people choose to follow a god who teaches us to love, yet attempts to kill its own creation to prove a point, makes no sense and never will. He is acting contrary to what we were taught...LOVE one another...and we have never understood that truth. It is LOVE that is the most powerful force in this realm...and we humans still do not have a clue, we just want others to think as we do. It is odd yet funny when you think about it...and when all else fails? Condemn those that disagree...threaten them with "eternal torture" never ending state of punishment that no thinking rational person truly believes...but they speak it because it gives them the illusion of power over others minds. So far, that hasn't worked out too well, but it HAS caused much pain and suffering throughout history and bloodshed and death. Is THIS what people follow? Apparently many do...unfortunately. Everything to some people throughout history somehow points to and angry "god" who is about to sweep through the earth and kill us all...or at least those that "do not believe". This started when no one understood things like volcanoes, earthquakes, etc., they saw them and taught others the "gods were angry", and they used this lie to get the masses to submit out of sheer terror...and of course often took their wealth in the process. Live, love, laugh and learn to appreciate each day...take time to observe and listen, and don't be the one who sucks the life out of others in the name of any religion. Treat others decently and kindly. Not pointed at you alone, just a thought that is beneficial to the human heart. We are but flesh and fragile, frail and we live in a realm of futility, Romans 8 discusses this...and it wasn't man that caused this state, though humans are always blamed, or "free will" or devil or whatever relinquishes responsibility from their gods. Just my thoughts...I have NO proof for any of it, and therefore cannot state in good conscience it is "truth". Likewise, I could no longer state or claim what I used to teach was to be viewed as "truth", I could prove nothing. Life is a matter of the heart and a life long journey of trying to learn what that means. Religion just made it into a business...THAT I can prove. Have a great weekend!

Hey Umbert! Thanks my friend. Doing ok I think as we navigate the insanity around us. How about you? I hope the same for you friend. I always appreciate you taking the time to say hello! Always good to hear from you...

Thank you Mark...no problem, and apology accepted in full my friend. I in turn ask the same from you...no ill will in our disagreements was ever intended...I just tend to question everything, sometimes with far too much emotion... Have a good day!

Hi @PrehistoricMan I apologize if you feel I accused just you in what I stated. I mentioned you "and a few others" so I was not just targeting you. I can see where you may have thought that. You think I didn't read a word in this thread? I have not followed it word for word of course, but enough to get the feel for how I commented on it. Yes, I am aware when it comes to any biblical discussions, things can get easily out of hand, with everyone insisting on being "right" and of course they will first and foremost protect their beliefs and tend to "pile on" against anyone that challenges the majority. It is called being human. I find it is near impossible to truly have discussions on certain subjects, because some can get so easily offended, rather than view it as a learning experience and the possibility that we have held certain thoughts or beliefs that perhaps were unfounded, etc. Religion and politics are usually a no go because of that, at least for me. Too much emotion and often a defensive posture. Personally, I learned many years to question everything...it is the only way I know how to learn. But that angers people, in many cases, even though my intent is not to anger them, but to offer another possibility, to assist them in learning to THINK for themselves, I care not if they think as I do, we all just need to give sincere thought before blindly being convinced of anything...once we think we "know" something, we tend to close our minds...and when that happens we stop thinking and learning and proceed into protection only mode. So no, it is not just you, but you have consistently responded abrasively so I brought it up to you, and a few others. I have no desire to be pulled into arguments, etc., I just made an observation, not at all just directed at you alone. I just posed the question to you...and "a few others". As for my thoughts, I enjoy a discussion on this subject, if it is respectful. A little about my background...and not material to spark arguments, just some of my experiences and thoughts...my opinions. Nothing more than my opinions based upon my own research, outside the box so to speak. I researched for many years, since the late 1980's in regards to many beliefs and how easy it is for parable, allegory and metaphor's to get twisted so out of context that it breeds some far out ideas IF taken literally and also can breed contempt. When I first began to understand some of these matters, I mentioned them to a few others in my church at the time...it did not go well. Of course I finally had to leave because I dared question, and dared to question what was being taught, and apparently that made a few uncomfortable, and no chance given for it to be a potential learning experience. Good thing is, years later, the person that I first told of a few things to, (one of the "elders"), I had found that was contrary to their teaching actually DID end up agreeing with what I was trying to point out. So, apparently, he no longer thought I was a "heretic". But I never went back to that group, not a good idea because there was also too much manipulation and other toxic things within. The same people who claimed to "love" me as a brother, were in reality, just interested in me believing as they did. When I stopped doing that, it became quite the shallow environment in some cases, not with everyone though. Some were genuine and always treated me well...leadership on the other hand, not so much. I was just a young man trying to make sense out of things being taught that no longer made sense to me...and so I stood up, and that usually never ends well when it comes to religious matters and their doctrines and dogma's. But I made a solid case for what I was learning, and some realized that. If we approach the bible with an open mind, as unbiased as possible, there is much benefit to be found...but when we begin to take literal things that are not intended to be taken as such, and we use that to try and justify in some cases, some very twisted ideas or beliefs, it distracts us from the beauty that is staring us in the face, and we begin to use the "letter of the law" to condemn and tear others apart, rather than the actual spirit of the law that has always been founded in LOVE and treating others as you desire to be treated. If the outcome of our beliefs and ideas are not swallowed up by that love, then we got off track somewhere and are only in a protection mode rather than seeking love. I trust you understand this also. We are told "god is love"...that begs the question, what do some people actually follow? In my user name here, is included "1cor13"...referring to "love never fails". I find too much of modern christianity teaches that it DOES fail, then blames the human and "free will" for that failure. That is not what is taught if we consider the whole message and not just the parts of it that we like, that support our beliefs but are not presented in their full context. I think that is a grave error and has caused much pain. It is not possible for that love to fail...even punishment has a goal...it is always towards correction. If it were not, and punishment was truly never ending, that would be UNJUST, so we have to learn to avoid that insult, as agape love is never unjust. The term "forever" in scripture has never meant "endless", but people claim that because it is used against people often as a threat. Would ANY human that truly loved their child ever punish them in an "endless" fashion without ever considering any hope for correction and a restoration to a good standing? Of course not...if so, it is unjust and absurd with no purpose. If we would genuinely focus upon, for example, Romans 8, we would realize it was NOT we frail humans that made a choice about our path...we were subjected to futility and frailty NOT of our own will...that reveals an entire different story than what most of us were once taught. In my opinion, we should pay attention to this also as a learning point. Man's "free will" or whatever people call it is not and will never be greater than the will of him who actually subjected us to futility and frailty...though some try and teach that placing all responsibility upon creation, rather than the creator. It is difficult to move out of our comfort zone when it comes to religious beliefs...but if we are to truly learn, there is no other choice but to ask questions and be willing to be challenged. Then accept where the path leads us, even if it is not what we believed or thought. Growth comes from asking questions and a willingness to be flexible with an open mind to learn. Not easy when we become "convinced" about something. Just a few of my thoughts, that make sense to me, and may not to anyone else, but that is ok. I respect their thoughts also. The bottom line to me of the message...treat each other as we desire to be treated...and realize that love is the greatest force of all. Ok, enough from me, again sorry if I offended you, I was just making an observation regarding you and a few others as mentioned. Have a good day!

Hi Mark Just an FYI in regards to using capital letters...that is actually a fairly recent change. This fact is not too well known, most just assume the capitals existed in the early manuscripts, but they didn't. The capitalization of deity pronouns in the Bible is a recent innovation that began less than fifty years ago. For example, the KJV Bible and its later revisions (except for the NKJV) did not capitalize deity pronouns. Also, the original Bible manuscripts in Greek and Hebrew do not capitalize deity pronouns. Hebrew manuscripts do not have capital letters. In Greek manuscripts, the letters are all either capital or lower case. Now @PrehistoricMan You've shared some interesting thoughts. I am well aware of the NWT translation, and it actually makes some useful corrections in some areas of translation, etc., which could assist in clearing up some confusion with a few beliefs some people have about biblical teachings. I have never been involved with the JW group, though several have tried to "convert" me, I have no interest in the JW group or any other. That leads me to a question for you...why is it or what is it that causes you to look down your nose or think somehow that only you or your religious group has the "truth"? It is a common claim of course, but why do you try and make others look stupid? What does that accomplish in a discussion such as this? If you feel the need to go there, in reality, it only hurts your attempts. Every group or church claims they possess the "truth", and some attempt to use some extreme methods or tactics to try and prove that claim, throughout history...so far that has never worked out too well and has caused bloodshed and division within the church, unfortunately. I think Mark has been much more of a gentleman in his responses to you than you have been in your responses to Mark. Many things you have discussed are worthy of thought...but you lose people when you act arrogant. No one really likes that attitude in reality or someone being so self righteous. I am telling you this not to anger you, but an honest question...why do you and a few others have to get so self righteous or arrogant when discussing biblical matters? Shouldn't sincere people desire to learn from each other rather than trying to act superior to each other? It accomplishes nothing...why not just discuss the matters, respect the responses and continue to, if possible learn something from each other? Usually responses such as these are a sign of feeling threatened, so one tries to dismiss or belittle the other. Deep emotion is involved in discussions such as these, I see no need to disrespect anyone or their thoughts...because that is really all we have are thoughts due to something being written in a book. Just something to think about...if you would like to debate or discuss these matters, just be more respectful, it goes a long way to try and make a point rather than act as if only YOU know the "truth". You and I both know that is not "true". You are discussing beliefs...not solid evidence, no need at all for being rude or arrogant towards anyone here. You guys have a good weekend!

Hi CL and thanks. My take in summary form The current situation from what I can tell is due in part to "lock downs" and covid restrictions that decimated demand early on, companies had to adjust inventories, food services had to adjust inventories, some were lucky enough to be able to return some back to food vendors that service those accounts. Farmers had a terrible situation on their hands, milk producers had to destroy inventories early on, farmers saw rotting crops, etc. The demand tanked from late March of 2020 to early fall of 2020. As time progressed, demand began picking up by the end of 2020, and producers were simply not prepared for it, walking that fine line between inventory costs and being able to meet market demands. As demand grew in early 2021 it was obvious supply chain kinks were already being seen, and as always, the predatory companies saw opportunity to push the situation and increase prices much more than they actually had to, citing transportation costs, etc. Prices rise quickly when supply cannot meet demand. We are still in that cycle, prices still rising and demand has not stopped growing. We are in this cycle for probably another year, where some things will remain difficult to find, food prices will continue to rise, likely another 10% the next year? Not to mention severe labor shortages that add to the kinks in the system. Bottom line I see is the fact this entire lock down, covid scheme as it has progressed was not well thought out at all. As much as it appears nefarious, the truth is companies were tasked with going months with reduced demand, growing losses and slowing production in order to stay afloat. Reality hit when demand exploded, which someone SHOULD have foreseen...but rather they continued to focus upon everything BUT demand increases, pent up demand that was simply far too great to manage. Focus was upon covid mitigation, "vaccine" development, even though there were already effective treatments already available...but that was not profitable for pharma and their clans. Medical mafia took charge... It is a mess, and a terrible oversight by everyone involved since March of 2020, Biden has not helped matters at all, with his constant focus and mumbling about covid, while the basic necessities of the country are overshadowed by other issues that are really not important at this time. The politicians can whine all they want about covid, but they are complicit in making the situation much worse than it ever had to be. There are multiple crimes that have been committed by politicians and the medical system...that is a fact. Govt. failed...miserably. They failed to foresee a proper end game to what happens when you illegally kill the economy, restrict the flow of commerce, lock down people and force them to work from home...when all that ends...BOOM. Just terrible planning. But no one was prepared for that BOOM. Companies are experiencing severe labor shortages which also hampers progress. It was a tidal wave experience in economic activity and demand is far greater than the supply, add lack of labor participants, and we have a serious problem...absolutely terrible long term planning on both sides in Washington. Have a good day CL.

Thanks Mark, but few ever seem to vet some of these videos...it is easier to just spread fear, it doesn't matter if it is valid or not, people just believe it, no facts or evidence necessary as long as it supports their world views or beliefs. So many half truths or outright misinfo pieces going around now, it is mind boggling. Is it any wonder some folks live in fear of their own shadows? In regards to this video... For instance, TikTok creator and farmer, @neflyinfarmer, posted a video earlier this month showing a letter and binders that the USDA allegedly sent him, ordering him to destroy his crops. But when he shows the USDA letterhead, it’s marked January 2018 — a fact that many users pointed out in the comments, calling the creator out for fake news. Even though the video spread misinformation, as it was viewed nearly 700,000 times, fortunately, the creator does make it clear in the comments that he was joking. More detail at the link below: Government Forcing Farmers to Destroy Crops? Subsidies Take Care of That (greenmatters.com)

Mark was being sarcastic, echoing your own words about losing "a lot of dumb people". Sounds a little callous doesn't it? Maybe a better more compassionate choice of words next time you pass judgment upon someone while you invoke your religion to make it appear you actually care about those "dumb" people.

If we read this carefully, and think about what is being stated...this should explain a lot as to why we often do what we do, and that often without thinking. Thought this went well with your video Scott...

That video I think was a very well done presentation, gets right to the point of how the game is played, and has been for literally all of human history. We're watching it now, and have been for a very long time...gradual mass psychosis and a lot of people suffering from being mentally raped for so long. I posted this the other day in a thread...everything is pushing fear today, because it works...if we allow it. No matter who it is, politics, religion, finance, every facet of life has those who use fear to gain power over others. We all really need to remind those that play the fear game to get out of the way...all of them, just get out of the way and let people live freely. The mind has always been the target... I fully understand your wife's thoughts...believe me, I have never seen so many people so divided and not thinking straight. The moment they open their mouth...there it is. Thanks for the posting this...I hope more folks take time to listen and realize how the fear game is used, and I hope they walk away from that game, no matter the source.

Indeed, much of this was very predictable. School openings soon...already hearing the hysteria. In my opinion, much of our society are experiencing a form of PTSD, and that can be terrible...all due to the constant fear and gradual mental trauma over time. We have to maintain an open mind, learn to think for ourselves...or someone else will definitely think for us and I do not see that as an option. Everything appears to be wrapped in agenda now, even some sources of alt. media. Fear is the most useful tool...unfortunately. It sucks the life out of all of us if we allow it. Past flu seasons have been in many ways higher numbers than covid, more hospitalizations and more sick...and we never heard a word about them. We're being played in many ways I think.

My pleasure bigwave.

I forgot to mention...we used to spend over $100 per bottle when we first started taking CBD oil. It was very good oil, but after we found the Swanson brand, its quality has been very comparable to what we were spending 3 times more for. Paying a higher price for something does not always mean you are getting a superior quality product, this seems true for CBD oil also. A lot of companies grabbed some serious dollars for this early on, but as more companies got into the scene, prices have come down. Supply and demand in action I guess.

Excellent and well said @md11fr8dawg All that is pushed is fear all day every day. We all want to be left alone and make out own choices. We have chosen not to participate in the experimental mRNA shots. We see no need to do so, and I do not trust the medical mafia for the most part, they are all making billions on top of the fear. We take supporting supplements, eat healthy and keep a balanced mind. Too many injuries and harm done if one digs through the VAERS reporting. In my opinion, any "mandated" medical procedures are illegal and all about the money. You are in charge of your health...not anyone else. I have family that do not want to be around my wife and I because of our choice not to participate. We are viewed as being "irresponsible". I explained to them the reason for our choices...also based upon science, this is not a "vaccine". It is gene therapy, we have no interest in that at all. They see it differently...sadly. They are genuinely scared, but we are not their threat...the voices they listen to ARE their threat to their sanity. Everyone has a choice for now...we shouldn't make those choices based upon fear, but I am seeing bizarre behavior from some folks so scared that they stopped living a year ago. I have heard of other families where they are being torn apart and not permitted to see their families if they are not "vaccinated" due to fear and believing everything they are told and the associated hype. Yes, people get sick, but this was never a reason to shut down the entire global economy, and in my opinion, it has never risen to "pandemic" levels if compared to previous severe flu seasons where 40+ million people got sick, 800,000 plus being hospitalized...this was 2017-2018 flu season...and we heard nothing about it. So we are beyond suspicious...it really is a mass psychosis, keeping people in a state of fear and mental trauma. This appears to have been the agenda since 9/11...covid broke us even worse mentally...in my opinion. Bizarre...and seriously sad.

Thanks Bigwave. Cannabis is an amazing plant. We have been taking CBD oil since early 2016. The last 2 years or so we found a good source, very reasonable price and it is "Full Spectrum", which we have liked best. Full spectrum contains more cannabinoids in addition to CBD (Cannabidiol). We buy the 'extra strength' 2 oz. bottle at Swanson Vitamins, usually well under $40 per bottle. Currently, the Swanson brand "Extra Strength CBD Full Spectrum - Mint" is priced at $34.41 for a 2 oz. bottle. It has been very effective for us. Some folks are expecting more of a "buzz" effect...what they want is not only the relaxation benefits, but what the CBD does inside the body. Here is the latest COA analysis of the most recent batch as of March 2021. Impressive numbers I think. https://media.swansonvitamins.com/pdfs/CBDLIQ25 lot 392008001 COA.pdf

I think this video goes along well with this subject...it is called Mass Psychosis - How an Entire Population Becomes Mentally Ill I think we are watching this unfold, and has been the last 20 years. The usual factors involved such as fear and mental trauma. This video explains how the game is played. Very good presentation well worth watching...I know some folks that are simply not thinking straight, and I think it is PTSD from swallowing so much propaganda. Just my opinion...I also think we were fooled...again in regards to covid. Much of what we have seen the last 15 months has been criminal in my opinion. I have siblings that refuse to be around me and my wife because we are not interested in getting the mRNA injections. Seriously...how sad. Have a good night guys...

Kevin, I am thrilled to hear this in regards to your wife. Similar situation here. My wife was diagnosed with stage 2B cervical cancer in 2015...she had a tumor the size of a grapefruit with massive blood loss and nearly died a few times during treatment. Somehow, she came through it and after 6 years she is doing awesome. She takes supplements, and shortly after her treatment she began taking CBD oil and continues to do so the last 5 years. I prayed for her...but never begged. I told "god" if I had to beg for her life, then take mine, because that would just make him a monster. I was very angry, at several things at the time. That she was sick and suffering, and the suffering I witnessed in other sick people. It changed my life and I found compassion for others, no matter what they believed or thought, it was heartbreaking to see it, not just with my wife, but in so many others in the oncology unit as well as radiology. Her recovery was "miraculous" also...after having so much radiation and after almost dying after her 5th chemo treatment, her wise radiologist told her to stop all chemo...he wanted her off it before he began her cervical radiology. She was burned so badly by the first 6 weeks of radiation she rec'd locally, it was just so sad. Then she finished with her cervical brachytherapy and her recovery was amazing. Was it "god"? I have no evidence of that, although I did pray for her, I could not take credit away from her doctors. How could I claim "god" intervened with her, when I saw so many others so sick and dying, and so many praying for their loved ones with seemingly no result? It made no sense to me then or now, but I am very grateful she is doing so well. I cannot prove anything else, and I know too many that lost their loved ones and I have no explanation for them other than time can heal but the wound never goes away. I did have a bad experience for years within the church...people that were only your friend if you agreed with them...I saw things and manipulation within the church I could write a book about. Corruption, lies and mental manipulation while they praised their god. So yes, I was hurt...I spent many years observing and I would not turn a blind eye to some things I witnessed. I lost friends because I walked away from it all...they were hypocrites but we all are to some degree I guess. It was liberating to walk away for me and stop living in fear. I loved those folks, and everything was great...until I disagreed with their beliefs and tactics. I also saw some pushed towards mental illness during my years there. I witnessed an "exorcism" done on a fellow...it made me sick to see how they treated him...he actually went on to have to be institutionalized. When someone claims another has "demons"...then goes through the motions, and are still sick...some never recover from that claim, understandably. This fellow didn't, and if something did not work after the church "elders" prayed for them, it was easy just to blame the person...or "lack of faith". That IS cruelty and I saw what it did to people. This was a "full gospel" church..and as a young man I swallowed everything i was taught...until it no longer made sense. I stood up against the mind rape, and let them know I was not going to play the game any longer. When I dared to question some of their beliefs...it did not take long to feel the coldness that came from some of them. I knew I had to get out and I did. They just wanted me to agree and not question...that doesn't work with me. So before anyone judges me, learn a little of where I have come from and the suffering I have seen. Everyone is free to believe what they want...what matters to me most now is how people treat others...and how they control their words and actions towards others...otherwise their bible tells them their religion is in vain. I wish more people understood that, but they tend to condemn others if they do not agree with them. I support freedom of religion AND freedom from religion. I do not care if someone worships ice cubes...just do not claim I must also do that in order to be saved from some kind of sadistic torture. That is cruel in my opinion. Some people are just nasty, and some of those people became that way from their religion. I have seen it so many times over the years, it is tragic in my opinion. I tend to stay clear of them, and some still think "god" hates me for walking away. I will leave them to their own delusions. I had one woman tell my ex-wife that "god" was going to KILL ME if I did not get back together with her. This woman knew nothing about my ex wifes cheating and lying...or anything going on in our lives at the time way back in the 1980's. Talk about a twisted person. No thanks...I'll keep treating others with decency, I have nothing to sell them other than decency. Thank you for sharing about your wife...I am so glad to hear that!

Look at some of the responses...how quick condemnation and division starts...because that is the purpose of religion, to divide humanity, but it also carries with it deep emotional reactions and people get angry quickly. That should helps us understand how it has been used to condemn and divide people for thousands of years and how people always need to reinforce their beliefs and seek validation in these type of conversations. In all due respect, not one single person can honestly claim they know with 100% certainty anything when it comes to their religious beliefs. Belief requires no evidence...that is why it is belief...truth stands upon its own evidence, no belief is required for it to be seen as truth. It doesn't need defended by threats and condemnation. People still run to attack those who question, run to condemn those that do not believe as they do...is it any wonder humanity has been so divided all in the names of peoples gods, and the violence and bloodshed that has resulted throughout history? I think it wise to pay attention to the following from Thomas Paine...he actually understood the dangers of religion...and how it can cause people to believe absurdities and push them to commit atrocities. History proves this without question. How about learning to treat others as you desire to be treated...that is the foundation of ALL human interaction. Humanity has still not understood this basic principle, and always appears to revert to the use of threats and condemnation to enforce their beliefs when they become desperate to validate them. Sometimes, it is very beneficial to wonder just what some people actually follow...especially when they so easily try and justify tearing others apart in the name of a god who will "torture those that do not submit"...that isn't love, it is fear based religious tyranny. Don't be fooled...THAT is what creates cruel people. Many will get angry because of my thoughts...reacting rather than listening. Not meant to demean anyone, just thoughts based upon reason and decency. Be good to each other...always. Threads such as this when religion enters into the discussion almost always get locked...there is a reason for that. Too many become volatile...just watch it unfold.

You're welcome Shabs. I would do this for anyone I thought was being fooled and setup...there are others, and they are always those who have a differing opinion than the majority. I have no emotional attachment to politics or religion as you know...but I see people use those two things daily to literally tear others apart that dare to question their world views and beliefs. I stuck up for Umbertino years ago as many tried to accuse him of somehow trying to subvert our country...I was told in a private message right afterwards that I was "on drugs, evil, drunk, and a waste of human life." THIS accusation came from someone that claimed they "knew god"...talk about delusion. So, this is why I say to you, do not trust any of it.

I didn't need to "know" your thoughts Mark...I read them in your words. Of course I forgive, daily...but your words were not directed at me, they were directed at someone else. You should consider following your own advice and apologize to the one you called "dead man walking". You don't have to try and justify your words, or make excuses, or trying to use religion to hide behind, just be genuine...and follow your own advice.

Shabs, you will always be made out to be the villain. It is the boards politics to do so to any dissenting opinion, to justify targeting people deemed as whatever label given to them. It is all misdirection, and the very things some accuse you of, they are masters at, knowing how to use the psychological tricks to fool others. This constant back and forth just pulls down the entire forum, and the insanity of it all is that some others blame YOU alone for most of it...never taking responsibility for their own part...making excuses using their religious beliefs, and turning them against you. Some just want their safe place without dissent. It is how the game is played, just do not trust any of it. Some just want you gone...and will say or do just about anything to try and get you to "cross a line" they have already crossed long ago, and get away with it. It is called being set up...trying to finally come unglued but they have failed. I see this in many online settings...as it says below...it is exactly how reality is when it comes to religion and politics. Never trust it...just observe the extent some will go to create the villain. Hope you are doing well...

A few observations Mark...just my thoughts... You honestly expect anyone to buy into your reasoning for posting something like this, knowing exactly the kind of reaction you are desiring...which is FEAR, and pushing the typical "impending doom" narratives that too many Christians have been fooled by including some that actually believe this injection is the "mark of the beast"? Too many stopped living long ago and are only existing due to the mindset of seeing everything as "doom" and pushing fear upon everyone. I personally do not believe your intentions with this post. What is the opposite of perfect love? FEAR, exactly what you are promoting in my opinion. How does that edify or assist those who have already got the shot? What do you expect them to do with this information? They cannot undo it, therefore some will react in fear and helplessness due to something you have ZERO proof of other than speculation presented as "truth". Using this to promote FEAR. Things like this is why many no longer bother to post here...drama all day long, bickering all the time to anyone who does not agree with what is posted, no one is allowed to have their own opinions, especially if those opinions disagree with the majority, and some would like to have the forum censored, to stop any opposing opinions or thoughts. Religion and politics...it is gradually destroying what was once a fun forum. Would be nice if we could learn to allow others to think for themselves without being treated like fools or being issued veiled threats such as you did with Shabs "dead man walking". Why would you even go there or say something like that to another member here? Don't use your religion to justify these type of actions...you are not fooling everyone. I don't get how nasty some folks here have become...disagree with someone, and you get trolled or taunted which to me is destructive to everyone who would like to be involved in discussions, but do not want to be treated like trash if they disagree. You are better than this Mark...don't allow your emotions to take you so far down the path of fear and doom...it will literally destroy you, all the while you think you are doing "good". It is not about anything other than taking some time to weigh the benefits of posting something of this nature claiming people may die within two years if they got the injection. I think you knew exactly how some would react...to something that is pure speculation.