Networth

You don't have to convince me of anything. Illiquid isn't bad. It just is. My stocks are a liquid investment. I can push a button on my keyboard and exchange my stocks for cash within 1 second. I can write a check and draw that cash down for groceries 1 second later. I can literally exchange my stocks for groceries instantaneously. My house is an illiquid investment. My dinar is an illiquid investment. Arguing over the word "illiquid" is nothing but semantics. You're far too emotional about this. Who cares if anyone else invests in the dinar or whether the dinar is liquid? I'll tell you why. Most of us care because we want to justify our own behavior. That's part of the problem. We all suspect deep down this is going to be, at best, a break even venture. But we cant' admit that we may have made an emotional or poorly researched investment. It's hard to admit that we screwed up. So to compensate, we try to convince others that this is a GOOD investment. If they agree, then we feel good about it OURSELVES. We no longer feel like the only fool. Then, as more people invest in the dinar, we start to think it may really be a good deal. After all, there can't be that many fools, can there? It's a purely selfish exercise. Leave him alone. Let him do what he wants. If the dinar RVs for millions of dollars as everyone thinks, give him part of the windfall if you like him. Otherwise, why does it matter?

Why do you have to try to convince him? He is probably right. There is no evidence to suggest this is anything but a highly speculative, illiquid, investment. There are only assumptions, misinformation, and a bunch of ridiculous (hourly) assertions made by unknown, anonymous, marketeers posing as knowlegable, connected, currency and culture experts. The first assumption you should always challenge in an investment is why you think you're right. Maybe this is the time to start that challenge.

Read the link. It provides absolutely no explanation why the RV is tied to the USD/EUR pair or that the magical exchange is $1.5000. It's just another "secret", unknown source assuring the poster there's no RV until 2012. We need reasons and logic. Not more super-secret inside information telling us to just trust them. If there's a logical reason why the dinar is related to the USD/EUR pair it ought to be easy to explain. Otherwise, it's just more of the same nonsense that people spew to try to stroke their own ego.

I can't say I've EVER heard the supposed theory of the dinar revaluing once the USD/EUR pair reaches $1.500. Why in the world does it matter what the relation of the USD is to the EUR? Additionally, what is magical about $1.500? Why not $1.6000? Or $1.4000. It makes absolutely no sense.Someone will have to enlighten me when this theory was proposed and what is so magical about $1.500. It just sounds like another excuse why the RV hasn't yet happened. When the USD/EUR pair reaches $1.500 (and there's no RV), I'll bet the RV goal post will be magically moved by these theorists to $1.600 or the USD/AUD or GBP/HKD pair will also have to reach a critical point. It sounds incredibly silly to me, just like most of the reasons people invent for no RV. If someone out there can explain the logic of this theory, I'm all ears!

Not again! How many times do these foolish predictions get made before people stop believing them? I swear I think some people make these outlandish posts just to see how many desperate people they can see latch on to them. It's a sport for them, just like fishing. They don't seem to care about the mental toll it takes on people. Knock it off! If you're just the messenger supposedly passing along the message, don't! For the love of God quit toying with people's emotions.

Thanks for the info. I would be interested to read the report if anybody happens to have a copy of it. It's not worth it to me to buy a subscription to get it but....if someone has a copy they want to make available, I would appreciate it.

Here's a provocative title to an ad on another dinar site. Link to it here. I didn't subscribe to the service so I didn't received the free report that supposedly tells us about the dinar scam. But, apparently, somebody feels strongly enough about the dinar as a scam to focus a marketing campaign on it. I'd be curious if anyone here has a subscription to this investment service and has received this report. This isn't the type of stuff people here are normally receptive to. We'll see how well it is received. Normally, anything negative about the dinar gets blasted without much consideration.

Your dad's friend's broker just said June 1st huh? So if I tell my friend's that a fellow poster's dad's friend's broker said June 1st then they will tell their friends that a friend's fellow poster's dad's broker said June 1st. The next thing you know, everybody is sure that it will be June 1st because EVERYONE is talking about June 1st. That's how these rumors hit a fever pitch and everyone gets whipped into a frenzy. Everyone is talking about June 1st so it MUST be June 1st. If it wasn't, why would everyone be talking about it? So would it be responsible for me to pass this rumor along or would it irresponsibly feed the beast?

He is wrong. He has no credibility. He's been making these stupid postings for months.

Of course everyone was new here at one point. It has nothing to do with being a newbie. It's just incredibly dubious and coincidental that his very first post is from some source that says we are "close". That alone should be a reason for some natural skeptical. The poster may very well be sincere and bona fide. But with the number of drive-by RV announcements we put up with every week it's hard to fathom why there isn't more scrutiny of that. People ought to be at the point by now where every single claim of "sources" and intelligence is questioned and doubted. Is it really enjoyable to go into every single weekend truly believing that you'll be a millionaire by Monday only to find out (again) you aren't? (I don't know, maybe people really do like the roller coaster ride.) It's also got nothing to do with negativity. It has to do with common sense. Our collective happy thoughts aren't going to affect the RV at all. But a little bit of realism may keep people from obsessing or, worse yet, diverting resources that they don't have into a highly speculative venture like the dinar. The people that have told us so far that this "investment" is questionable and suspicious have been right. And the people that have told us the big pay off is here have universally been wrong. How many times do the posters that tell us there is definitely going to be an RV this weekend have to be wrong before we stop believing them? And how many times do the people and posters that tell us to be skeptical and wary have to be right before we start believing them?

Give me a break. This is getting downright stupid. All of a sudden some anonymous, new poster shows up just in the nick of time to bless us all with the great news from his highly placed, reliable but (naturally) unnamed and unknown "sources". Take it or leave it? I'll leave it!

Yeah, right. Another anonymous, unknown e-mail citing anonymous unnamed "sources" paraphrasing speeches by members of the Iraqi gov't that not a single person can seem to find anywhere on TV or YouTube. (But this one is finally true.) LOL. Don't believe it. But don't let it control or ruin your weekend. Monday will come and go with no RV. Eventually, I hope, people will start to give these postings the skepticism, scrutinty, and consternation they deserve.

I don't know specifically what Adam has said, but this website, DinarVets, suggests that posters and subscribers are informed, engaged, and prepared. That's a very strong suggestion that the dinar will RV. In addition, the vast majority of the posters here are indeed firm believers that the dinar will RV and reading their posts would only lead you to that conclusion. But, as you admit, it's really nothing more than a belief. You have nothing but belief that the rate will eventually change. That, to me, doesn't make it much different than a rapturist. It's not a bad thing. I just think it's very interesting that we all seem to agree that the rapturists are a bit silly and delusional. But, if we are completely honest, we are not much different in our sincere and passionate belief that the dinar will RV. Perhaps we are far more silly and delusional than we think.

They do? Based on what? That is preposterous. We have no information and no evidence to suggest that anyone knows that. It's the GRAND ASSUMPTION! Everybody assumes it will RV simply because everyone else is assuming it will RV. Your position supports the point that there is no difference between believing that the rapture was going to occur Saturday and believing the dinar will RV someday. None. Both provide no physical evidence. Both require significant faith and belief strictly based on personal interpretation of written or verbal communication and bias. It is strangely similar. Yet most people think the rapturists are a bunch of outlandish kooks.

Why are the followers of Camping "idiots"? Because his predictions ended up being wrong and they believed it? What does that make us? And I would beg to differ you on your characterization of the dinar. There hasn't been a single website or guru that has not implied that the RV is certain. Every single one (including DV) says (or, at least, strongly implies) it is certain, that it is going to happen. It's just a matter of when. That sounds eerily similar to Camping and the followers that you deem "idiots".

Read the post. I'm asking a question. What's the difference between the rapturists, which most of us view as naive and cultish and dinarists? Why can we see the foolishness and naivity of Harold Camping and his followers but don't have the same view of ourselves?

Saturday came and went with no earthly destruction as promised by Harold Camping (again). This weekend came and went with no RV as promised by the dinar pumpers (again). The definitive new date for the rapture is now October sometime. The definitive new date for the RV is Wednesday. The followers of Harold Camping believed with all their heart that the rapture was to occur. They were absolutely certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it was to happen. They studied the Bible and scripture. They prayed. In many cases, they spent their life's savings in preparation. Even after the rapture failed to occur, most still adamently believe it is coming soon. The investors in the dinar (dinarists) believe with all their heart that the RV will occur. A year ago, many told us beyond a shadow of a doubt that the RV would have definitely occurred by now. Even though it hasn't happend, most still adamently believe it will. They have scoured the news and listened to Shabbibi. In many cases, they've spent way too much money in anticipation. In spite of the striking similarities between rapturists and dinarists I can't help but wonder why we can easily dismiss Harold Camping and his followers as mind numbed cultists with no basis in reality and yet view our own devotion to the dinar as a reasonable, rational, grounded investment. What's the difference?

So you don't like bashing but you're bashing people for bashing others? That makes no sense.

I know you're just passing this along but please..... what a bunch of garbage. This is absolutely preposterous. There is NO possible way that these dinar are going to be rounded up. NONE. This is so incredibly far-fetched, it's laughable. There is absolutely nothing anyone can do about ex-cons, gang members or terrorists acquiring or holding dinar just like there's nothing they can do about them buying Hanes underwear or granny smith apples. If the original poster is suggesting that these dinar have to be rounded up first before there will be an RV then, I guarantee you, THERE WILL NEVER BE AN RV! That is moronic. 100 million dinar can be tucked away in a shoe box that can be stashed in a million possible locations. They aren't sitting in a bank that a gov't can seize. They aren't circulating them. Once they leave the country, no one knows who owns them. I assure you the dinar dealer's records don't show Osama bin Laden or Ayman al Zawahri as buying a bunch of dinar. There is no possible way of knowing who possesses the dinar or where they are kept. NONE. I'd like to think people aren't that stupid, but sadly, there are some people that probably believe stories like this. I hope the informed posters at DinarVets aren't in that group.

No. You are wrong on all accounts. Currencies don't have magical powers. They neither create nor destroy wealth. If currencies had the magically ability to create wealth, why wouldn't we simply re-value our own currency if we wanted more wealth? Why do we need another country to re-value their currency to create wealth for us? If currencies had this magically power, why are countries like Bangladesh, Uzbekistan and Somalia dirt poor? (By the way, if you think our economy is a hell hole, try living in any of these countries for a while.) Why don't they just re-value their currencies and create wealth for their citizens? Because that's not the role of a currency. They can't do it. That's a foolish notion. They are simply mediums of exchange that individuals use to trade labor, skills and ideas for products and services. Nothing more. Nothing less. Wealth is ONLY created by increasing productivity. If the dinar strengthens, it will only be because productivity in Iraq has measurably increased and it hasn't been diluted by the issuance of more currency or credit. It will have absolutely NO effect on our economy. Contrary to your notion, it would, however, actually weaken the dollar. A currency only has relative value to other currencies. It is a completely interdependent relationship. If 2 people are facing each other, one can only move forward if the other one moves backward. If one currency becomes more valuable (increases its purchasing power) because the country issuing the currency has become more productive, then the relative value of all other currencies, by default, are weaker. If the value of the dinar were to suddenly and significantly strengthen overnight (don't count on it), the value of the US dollar (relative to the dinar, at least) would decrease. Don't make this harder than what it is. The RV is not about us. It's not about our country or our debts or our currency. The value of the dinar will ONLY increase as the productiviity of Iraq has increased. It's a simple concept. There's no big conspiracy that is holding up the RV. There's no secret consortiums or backroom deals that are being made. There's no international end game or secret economic principles that are being tested. It's a currency. Its value is determined like every other currency and will continue to be. And right now, that value in US dollars is 1,170 dinar trades for 1 dollar.

Not again! Why do people ALWAYS insist on relating every piece of news or information to the imminent RV of the dinar? If Ali is shutting down he simply needs a firm date that all his transactions can be closed by. He doesn't want pending transactions to linger indefinitely. It seems very reasonable to me that he would set a date to settle all remaining transactions. Why do people insist on continuing to hype this investment? It serves no purpose. Monday will come and go with no RV. Yet someone will come up with another ridiculous prediction next week that the following Monday will be the date this time for sure. Some astute poster with magical powers will read the tea leaves and figure out there's a secret code hidden in some other piece of news or information that the rest of us are too foolish to see. Stop! It's not healthy. Even lab mice learn to stop going down the same habitrail if there's no food down there.

Oh, please. Another absoutely ridiculous and preposterous rumor to add to the pile. TO ANYBODY NEW TO THIS SITE: do not believe this garbage for 1 minute. We should not even affectionately refer to them as rumors anymore. They are not rumors. Rumors are based on a grain of truth or a semblance of fact. Plain and simply, these are lies. It doesn't matter that some people may actually believe them. That still does not make them rumors.

No. That's not a fact. Far from it! That is an opinion, expectation or hope that many people have. Something that has not occurred cannot possibly be a fact. Learn the proper use of terminology and then we can discuss facts.

I've never seen anything that indicates they intend to do a simple lop. If the intent is to maintain the purchasing power of the currency (as they've said) the lop would have to include an RV. As a speculator, that doesn't increase the value of your investment. I understand that is the likely scenario (since that's what they've said) but I fear many people are blinded by the lure of sudden riches. I'm trying temper expectations based on what has actually been said, not based on what we WANT. The tendency of most people is to focus on the RV part of the equation, not the RD part of the equation. A lot of people got rich in the California gold rush. But the vast majority of them weren't the miners. It was the guys selling the picks and shovels, the liquor, and the women. I would strongly suggest the same is true of this speculation. Without a doubt, the dinar dealers and websites are making good money (which is perfectly appropriate). We just need to remember this is a highly speculative investment that is not likely to make us much money. Instinctively, I think most people know this. They just need a reminder every now and then.

flip said: "If Iraq does lop, they will reduce the wealth of the nation that have invested in it. They will reduce the wealth of the corporations that have invested in Iraq. This will bring investment in Iraq to a stand still. It will further devastate the Iraqi people. Unemployment will skyrocket as investors pull out. A lop would be devastating to their economy." That simply is not true. They have repeatedly said, over and over and over, that a redenomination of the currency (lop) will have NO effect on the value of the currency. 25 dinars after an RD will have the same value as 25000 dinars before the RD. If you have 100,000 dinars in your bank account before the RD, you will have 100 dinars in your bank account after the RD. But something that cost 100 dinar before the RD will now cost .1 dinar after the RD. Purchasing power has not changed one bit. Your wealth has not changed. The value of items has not changed. Economic growth and unemployment is not affected by a lop. It is not hard to understand. Why do people continue to make it out to be something more than it is?