ATHIM

WATERMAN13: As for me and my house I will serve the Lord, and He said "Make NO graven images"! PERIOD Whatever serves to bring you closer to God. In like mindedness I would conclude that you have no images of nature and family hanging on the walls in your house and that you have also remove these graven images from your wallet. I believe that Luke would have known this spending so much time with the Lord. It appears that you have received the Gospel of Waterman13. You say that you believe the Gospel of John so let me ask another question. Do you receive the body and blood of Christ for eternal salvation? John says in Chapter 6 that Jesus taught, if you do not eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you! The Jews could not accept this teaching and many turned aside. I assume you are washed in the blood of the lamb, through what priesthood? I have spent years researching these things, ancient people movements, signs and symbols, religions, etc. You must remove yourself from yourself because you are a symbol of God, albeit a living one. The symbols and idols debate was clarified by the 7th ecumenical council. You are in no way above their findings. If you do not receive as a child in the context and understanding of the disciples, believing and understanding as they do, you have not received the Gospel.

That includes a cross, which has been in the earth and used as a method of death. NO IMAGES, period. Wm13 Really waterman? The cross has been the symbol of Christianity for 2000 years and they tear it down to raise the symbol of Islam. I suppose you see this act as some sort of holy justice for adoring the cross and raising it up. Christians see this event as a militant act by a militant belief system that seeks to destroy Christianity. As a side note: Did we see God? For me, we did, so we can depict Him and everything about Him that we saw. His image, His cross, His family etc. etc. etc. When I see a cross it reminds me of the sacrifice my Lord and savior made on that cross for me and all creation and it draws me nearer to Him. Whatever way you shake it, there is one group that really has a problem with the cross, both he, and his children do what they can to tear it down. St. Luke, whose Gospel you read, was an iconographer and is considered the first iconographer of the Christian Church depicting the Virgin Mary, , , , , how does that make you feel?

Nelg. 5 cheese 3 pepperoni. LOL. It is certainly the powerful draw card... Waterman13. Keep your eyes on this Pope. If you can seek out the prophecy of St. Malachy who lived around 500 years ago, add this to the prophecy of Fatima and you have a very disturbing and interesting cocktail. When Pope Benedict retired, the fist Pope in 600 years to do so, St. Peters basilica in Rome was struck by lighting just a few hours later. Certainly the Papacy has become unyielding to the Spirit of truth. The Church of Rome has canonized unbiblical teachings and adopted a supremacy leader. I am very saddened by what this Church has done to its own faithful and to the rest of the world, even other Christians. Nelg: I know we had discussed this in the past, the rebuilding of the temple. The Jews have a copy temple up and running. They are training Levites for the priesthood and they have even identified a red Heifer in the USA that will be ready for sacrifice in three years, 2017. 2017 is also the year which Judah Ben Samuel, a Jewish prophet who lived, I think, 800 years ago, prophesied the Messianic age would begin. 2017, September 23 is when, in the heavens, the women with the crown of 12 stars will give birth. 40 weeks Jupiter the King planet will be in Virgo, go into retrograde and then come out. This sign has not occurred since Christ was born. Add this to the blood moon tetrad occuring now and humanity has quickly come to what well may be the big day!!!

Waterman13, So now that you can spiritually see, do you believe the teachings of Christ as the Apostle John does? I discern from your comment about the Nicolaitans that you do not believe in a priesthood would that be correct?

Waterman13. I am sorry that your experience of those who call themselves Christians has been a sour one. I would advise that none of us are above instruction and it is wise to find good council and fellowship with those who inspire us to deepen our commitment and enhance our understanding of the one we call the God/Man. As far as the Apostle John is concerned, please do not discount the fact that he did have a church and a preacher. His preacher was Christ and his church was built on that teacher and he is a pillar of that church. I know life deals us some strange blows but please do not lose sight of the truth that Jesus came to establish a church that hell will not prevail against and it will not.

Thanks Nelg. It is always Spiritually healthy to hit the refresh button from time to time so that we more accurately define what it is we understand about God and the way in which humans have been given to follow Him. I see the word RELIGIOUS vilified in the media, while knowing that Jesus the Christ was raised up in the religion of the Israelite's, and as you said, it can mean following God, I believe we should be careful not to lump all religions into the same category of 'man made' justified within the understanding of faith that we follow Christ under the belief system that Christians consider to be the correct religion. Simply put we follow the religion that Jesus completed based on the religion of the Israelite's. I have a deeper concern with this sentiment as generally accepted and promoted in the media, and that is that we can interpret Christ and the teachings of the Apostles any way we like because conforming to an older understanding means that we are 'religious'. I often see the word religion used as the scapegoat which allows so called 'believers' to believe whatever they like. By definition we are religious, what would you think??? Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods, a particular system of faith and worship.

Nelg. Hope you are doing well. I have been reading the posts but have been too exhausted to get involved. I have read various posts by people who are against religion. I don't think I understand what they mean by religion. To me religion is about following God, what am I missing??? Thanks and God bless you.

100 billion in capital and they are going to change the world. How much does Iraq have in reserve???????

Awesome!

I have myself not posted for a long while but have been reading often. I think this may be exactly what has happened. E.G. Iraq is a dump don't look here to invest so that they minimize exchange outgoings. What speculative investor would be looking at Iraq now, , , no one! Most investors would think that Iraq, in light of ISIS moves is never going to materialize as a relevant economy. Another, I think, in the line of Political deceptions. Bigger deceptions, unfortunately are on the way.

Sandstorm. You don't have to be nasty, or, maybe you do? You have no idea what's going on and you will never find out the truth because they don't want you to. This has always been in the hands of the bigger plays and OUR 2 cents worth is just that, 2 cents worth. Others are waiting for those who carry the dollar opinions to speak. Then we will get to the truth whatever that may be. Maybe a GRC to Bancor for every county for all we know, we are in the dark and you are in a sandstorm.

Awesome post to start the day. I love and miss Bob Hope.

Great story. Thanks.

Keep. I appreciate the balance you provide to these forums but lopping their currency is not that difficult, certainly when we consider the time they have been evaluating the process. From mortgages to physical notes, international balances etc LOPPING is a simple technical process cetainly not one that takes several years to work out even with the snail pace of Iraq's progress. More is going on here than just a simple LOP. I am not certain that you are wrong, but I think you are on that point.

Thug, that dog video cracked me up. I have those dreams too and I get up and go to the toilet.

Thanks Yota. we are not in a good place financially and any loss for the U.S.A. means the whole world will take another hit. Iraq need to jump and give us a kick start. I just hope and pray our President is as concerned as we are about a possible collapse?

Excellent posts all the way through and some great perspectives on an interesting topic. A few thoughts before I forget. Abraham was accounted faithful before the covenant. He had something worthy of the offer. God’s law is written on our hearts, which to me goes beyond circumstances, I.e. in our hearts we know right from wrong. Nelg, great commentary on creation. I would add, Lucifer and his followers fell before we did and they were cast out. From Isaiah quoting Lucifer, ‘I will be like the most high”, same temptation he pulled with Eve, ‘you will be like God knowing good and evil’, as he is the father of disobedience he introduced disobedience into God’s creation. Adam chose to follow Eve’s defiant act and the fullness of Humanity, both woman and man was deceived, with freedom to choose that path, a reconciliation and atonement greater than the evil is now needed, enter Jesus. Many of the posts move forward form the here and now and perhaps the then and when should be considered also. Obviously we are not robots and the same stimulus will create an infinite number of responses in us when we factor in the mental, emotional, spiritual, social etc. balance of those choices. My thoughts: What is out of our control? We cannot choose our parents or our siblings, the place that we are born and how we are raised. The wisdom of righteousness or the foolishness of evil we encounter in our home. We cannot choose the food we put on the table as a child, a discipline of prayer and fasting set, involvement in charitable acts, attending church etc. the school we attend and the list goes on. We are not just suddenly here, we are born and raised. So to me, the process of salvation and pre-destination begins before we are born when God places the soul in the womb, of the womb, of the womb all the way back in our genealogy. Parents play a critical role in forming their children’s understanding and interpretation of the world and this speaks to the probability of making like choices. When God chooses our parents and the child that will be received with our co-operation, there is a likely result that will occur from that placement, no absolute, but likely. God has always played a role in bringing man back and He is not a casual observer, His desire is that we seek out His will so that He may direct our steps. “Raise a child in the ways of the Lord and when he is old he will not depart from it.” SO TO ME, the whole pre-destination concept, like salvation, is very complex as are the factors that play into our eternal judgment. I like TANKDUDE’s flow chart concept. God knows all the possible outcomes of any choice we make. While choosing God’s choices also lead to consequences, perhaps some difficult, but when executed, they are consequences that edify us and lead to salvation. God will not abandon us, if we follow God He will lead. But ultimately, God will save whom He will save and have mercy upon those He will have mercy upon, be they a gang banger or the Holy Hermit, God is He who searches mind and heart and will give to each according to their deeds because like us, God is free and made us free. Nelg said it well; we must hear the call and choose to be transformed by its message. God has done His part in that He has pre-made, pre-formed, pre-approved, pre-destined the road that leads us to eternal life made complete in Jesus Christ. He has sent the comforter that we may never walk alone, He has given us the saints that we may have excellent role models and He has made us free to choose Him even unto and beyond death.

Thanks for the post. A friend of mine sent me this link mid August - possibly connected....something may be brewing and we have already had a few wiffs!

When they say 'Reset' their brain is actually wanting to say an 'adjustment' of the currencies to reflect their truer worth in relation to all other currencies and that their will be a simultaneous change of great magnitude not the fluctuations happening daily. Hope that helps smear, I mean clear the doodoo.

Question: In what currency do they hold their reserves??? If it is in USD then I would want to jump ship too and fix to a different currency, just a thought.

Thanks ronscarpa. time well spent reading.

Nelg - I will provide you with some links and thoughts when I have the opportunity, probably some time today. Wayfarer - Christ came 2000 years ago and if He had returned this discourse could not be held. When Christ returns to the earth all life as we know it will cease perminately. The reason we must, and are compelled out of love to hold these discussions, is becasue all of us are seeking a deeper and more committed, more correct relationship with our Lord and savior. Is it not the same Satan from the garden who is constantly seeking a way to trap man, we have and will be the target of his traps till Christ returns and corrects all things, we are only seekers of the truth and though we disagree, it is my hope that we remain civil, open minded and loving. In truth it is the challenge presented to me by my Protestant brothers, that I love, that has inspired and forced me to dig deeper and understand more about my own faith. Stay in peace Gods love is sufficient, but for Nelg and Markinsas and I, a little healthy scappling can only help as long as it is done for the right reasons. Christ was not a, lets all just get along kind of person. He rocked the boat and sent the Holy Spirit to keep us all hungry and struggling on every level,this is how we grow.

MARKINSAS I will respond to you in general. OK I accept God does not have favorites, He just favors some more than others. Regarding the Church I worship in, No statues, we have Icons and in regards to my Church, it is THE Church, there is no other Church when one seeks the fullness of truth. Some 40,000 denominations all proclaiming to have the truth, I don’t even know what to say to that. What exists outside of the Church are faithless knockoffs filled with false Christ's teaching a washed down version of the truth to a people born out of, primarily the Protestant movement. No I am not Roman Catholic I am an Orthodox Christian. I belong to the Church that has remained unchanged from Christ and the Apostles. We have Christ and He is nowhere else and we shed our blood and give our lives for Him and to protect that truth, Christ has us and we will be here till He returns. Can you bear this? The Church has stood for 2000 years and resisted heresies and false doctrine and has kept the mystical light of Christ burning despite what Satan has propagated in terms of false teaching, for many claiming Christ, have no faith! What they claim as faith is what Satan himself wants them to believe and accept, and nothing more. There is no interpretation of scripture there is one truth handed down by Christ and His Apostles, what you or I choose to discern is irrelavent. If we do not believe what they taught then we have no part in Him. For He came to build a Church and offer Himself for that Church and to build a people upon that rock and the rock will resist all of hells fury let alone a chat on Dinar Vets. I teach the Orthodox Christian faith and I have studied for 27 years while still being a disciple of the truth with much to learn. I am Greek and read Greek and I was raised in the Church that gave you the Bible that you quote and use to bludgeon true believers. REGARDING THE VIRGIN MARY, your stand is way out of line from that of the Apostles who would not, and will not hesitate to rebuke you at the apointed time. We all need to show some humility before Gods mother as Christ Himself did. Or do you think that ‘honor thy father and mother’ did not apply to Him? Your answer regarding “being washed in the blood of the lamb” is sadly, what I expected and proves to me that, as Jesus said, NOT ME, you are Spiritually lifeless and that you have a misguided understanding of the New Testaments fullfillment. It angers me that we have gone so far from the truth that people are missing the whole point of the incarnation and placing their souls in danger with the help of blind guides. In order to know why Jesus came and to live the life that Jesus requires of the faithful, one must have a teacher who teaches what the Apostles taught. Believers fall in line with these teachings, they do not buck them. The Bible is one icon of the Church it is not the whole canon of faith, BUT the faith is edified and revealed by the Bible and the truth is within if one can be taught. This discussion, is in all probablity, a dead end, it appears that you have your mind set.

Markinsa You use the scriptures as a weapon, very concerning, especially in light of the fact that they were written by the people of faith whose writings and Traditions you diminish. There are piles of scriptures that indicate the opposite of what you said. Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. Acts 7:46 “who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. In simple terms those who have found favor with God are His chosen. Those who lose favor with God are in darkness eternal. When we speak of favorites, we speak in eternal terms not in earthly terms and we who are at risk of losing our souls do not measure to those beneath His throne at this time. I do not have statues of the Virgin Mary, I do have icons though and I give her the reverence she deserves because of her majesty among all people. BTW, the evangelist Luke was the first iconographer and his first icon depicted the Virgin Mary, funny eh? “Saved by the blood” in your Icon. I am curious to know what you think that means, not to me or to you, but to the Christ and the Apostles. Let me hazard a guess - - - We are washed in the blood of the Lamb who died on the cross for us and through faith in Him I am saved. When His blood was shed and He died we were saved. It is the redeeming blood of God that has saved me and I need do nothing more than accept this fact.