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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/22/2011 in all areas

  1. BondLady] some 1 asked earlier but i was on the phone with our gh and couldnt respond [bondLady] what i felt about the troop withdrawal [bondLady] i look at it 2 ways and neither is bad [bondLady] and its just my opinon but as u all know i read a ton every day [bondLady] gm ss [bondLady] the withdrawal [bondLady] gm ladonna [bondLady] that might just be some strategic thing to get them out of ch 7 quicker [bondLady] they have to be able to protect themselves without us [bondLady] yes [bondLady] even tho [bondLady] we started handing things back over to them to do on there own for the last 2 yrs [bondLady] we are and were trainers and an advisory roll [bondLady] so kuwait doesnt want them to come out of ch 7 yet as iraq still owes the 35% of the remainder balance of what iraq owed kuwait for sins of the father which was saddam [bondLady] justifiably so iraq owed it [bondLady] consequences happen an they have to pay for it even if it was saddam that did it [bondLady] it was still iraq [bondLady] iraq asked the un to take them out of ch 7 and let iraq an kuwait come to terms on the remainder 35% [bondLady] kuwait said no [bondLady] i dont blame them [bondLady] iraq renigs on things every day [bondLady] just look at the procrastination of emplimenting the agreements of erbril [bondLady] sec brb [bondLady] lemme read back lost my place [bondLady] so kuwait said no they dont trust iraq to keep there word [bondLady] kuwait might be a lil nicer also if they would stop threatning them over there new mubarek port also [bondLady] there was a deal made [bondLady] with the un and other countries weve read them in the news [bondLady] if u leave kuwait alone about its mubarek port an concentrate on the new iraq port fao then we could get u outta ch 7 [bondLady] but will they shut up? [bondLady] no that loud mouth ugly chick in the goi is non stop about it [bondLady] even tho they know its for the best [bondLady] they cant control themselves long enough to come out of ch 7 [bondLady] Maliki: survival instructors Vervaeke arming contracts ...And military bases will remain for training purposes only/expanded/ Date: Saturday 22-10-2011 03: 11 pm Baghdad (newsletter).Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki that the number of trainers and stay in Iraq arms contracts will be bought, declaring in time for the absence of any military base in Iraq after the withdrawal of the US Army after the end of the year. Maliki said at a press conference at the press center of the Presidency of the Council of Ministers was attended by a reporter (News News Agency) reported Saturday that the withdrawal will end: any US military presence in Iraq, and the number of trainers and stay in Iraq will determine within decades by armament will be purchased, noting: the presence of instructors is normal when buying weapons from the country of origin to train Iraqis on maintenance and use. [bondLady] Al-Maliki said that Iraq had bought weapons and equipment from the United States, received arms and equipment as a gift worth $ 800 million, saying: that the rules will remain for training purposes only and the presence of military operations and the presence of us military bases in the future require new Convention ratified by the Sejm, and continued: many repercussions immunity, either emotional or intellectual, religious, political blocs expressed its refusal to grant immunity to the trainers. And said: that Iraq and Toya American relations page was governed by military presence, will begin a new relationship between the two countries by the end of this year, Iraq wants to play in all areas, and this is supported by extensive relations with the United States. However: there won't be any affected u.s. withdrawal from Iraq, Iraq will regain its full sovereignty and the security situation in Iraq is not affected by the withdrawal of US troops because the security file managed by Iraqi forces since the year 2008, predicting that some terrorist acts, maybe starting from now. Maliki said: that all arguments and justifications for terrorist groups from Al-Qaida to use weapons and bloodshed, was eliminated after Obama's decision to withdraw all US forces from Iraq by the end of the year. [bondLady] But al-Maliki: Iraq exposed to any external aggression after genealogy, and we're not worried about these expectations, because Iraq is continuing to raise its military capabilities and arm his army, and this does not mean that Iraq not strong now, it is able to reply to any external aggression on its territory and in all means. And via Al-Maliki was astonished by some parties that have not specifically, feared this withdrawal, and said they don't want Iraq to restore its sovereignty, but on the Iraqi people respond appropriately. This was confirmed by Prime Minister Nouri Kamil al-Maliki on the need to operationalize the strategic framework agreement, which charted a course for the nature of relations between Iraq and the United States, after the withdrawal of US troops at the end of this year. [bondLady] The Office said in a statement received by Al-Maliki (News Agency news) copy: confirm Al-Maliki came during a closed-circuit television with u.s. President Barack Obama took place Thursday evening, referring to the statement: that the views of both sides was identical with the need to initiate a new phase of strategic relations within the strategic framework agreement after withdrawal on schedule later this year. It said the two sides agreed on the need to convene a meeting of the Coordinating Committee of senior strategic framework Convention in two weeks. The statement said the two sides stressed the importance of implementing the strategic framework agreement vocabulary in scientific, cultural and developmental and other, in the interest of the two countries and people friendly. The statement pointed out: the US President has invited the Prime Minister to visit United States, Maliki promised to met soon http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=ar&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ikhnews.com%2Fnews.php%3Faction%3Dview%26id%3D22979 [cybercat] what determines whether they are a sovereign nation? [bondLady] id imagine when they can take care of themselves with out help [bondLady] which is what troop withdrawl will do [bondLady] is give them full sovreinity and not just the mouth but the whole body of it [bondLady] so when we do go they better be able to back up what they say [bondLady] and also to put other countries in check when they do stuff to them also [bondLady] so this paragraph basically what i said about the trainers [bondLady] Al-Maliki said that Iraq had bought weapons and equipment from the United States, received arms and equipment as a gift worth $ 800 million, saying: that the rules will remain for training purposes only and the presence of military operations and the presence of us military bases in the future require new Convention ratified by the Sejm, and continued: many repercussions immunity, either emotional or intellectual, religious, political blocs expressed its refusal to grant immunity to the trainers. And said: that Iraq and Toya American relations page was governed by military presence, will begin a new relationship between the two countries by the end of this year, Iraq wants to play in all areas, and this is supported by extensive relations with the United States. However: there won't be any affected u.s. withdrawal from Iraq, Iraq will regain its full sovereignty and the security situation in Iraq is not affected by the withdrawal of US troops because the security file managed by Iraqi forces since the year 2008, predicting that some terrorist acts, maybe starting from now. Maliki said: that all arguments and justifications for terrorist groups from Al-Qaida to use weapons and bloodshed, was eliminated after Obama's decision to withdraw all US forces from Iraq by the end of the year. [bondLady] anyways hope that helped ya'll [bondLady] and keep in mind please its just my opinon, [bondLady] also because i believe this chat will make its way back to dv, id like to add a lil something here [bondLady] theres some of u i miss very much, carrello, francie, elixr to name just a couple there were many many, my hat goes off to adam if i wore 1 lol for what he did per the negs and bashers on his forum [bondLady] glad he did wished he would have done it sooner, i might have still came over for visits, i tried to do the right thing, and set a presidance for leaders and other fourms to show a respectful presance and go and visit with other forums as we are all in this investment together, that egos shouldnt exist in this [bondLady] and by me going to visit different forums i tried to set an example of truth and respect for my fellow investors [bondLady] some people just would not allow it, if it wasnt for non stop trying to make me say some thing i didnt believe in to flat out lieing or damning me for bad pennmanship or slang [bondLady] i mean really lol [bondLady] but things happened and i left from there, and wont be comming back to post, but plenty of people that are there let me know how much i was supported by many and i thank you all for that, very much [bondLady] any way gonna stop and say hope our saturday morning chat helped ya'll [bondLady] and it was just my opinons [bondLady] nothing is set in stone [bondLady] ty all vm [bondLady] drops the mic an walks off
    18 points
  2. Do we have a shot at this? It is a broken down country with no amenities. It’s an undeveloped country longing for modern amenities. They use US currency and can hardly fend for themselves. Their present currency is weak and hard to use for common transactions. Can they really support an RV? Even naysayers admit the dinar is undervalued. The only question is how much. A lot of possible can make money from this and I wonder if they have them means? Huh? If you say oil is the means, then I wonder why would they even bother. A barrel of oil costs Iraq less than $5.00 to produce and can be sold for over $85. They can just sell oil and scratch their own back. Or they can sell oil and build infrastructure, housing, schools and hospitals. I only ask these questions because there is a lot of stringing along with when and why things get or don't done with the RV. Yup. Also, what is INTEL? INTEL is a computer chip provider. Also short for “intelligence” which in general is the studied analysis of information. Around here it’s about as studied as chip dip.
    18 points
  3. There was a post earlier today about our troops pulling out at the end of the year. There was an individual that is "highly regarded" on this site that made a comment about the troops pulling out. I believe the individual stated "we're screwed". I got into this helping a friend of mine that is paralyzed. He had mentioned this investment opportunity several times. The forth time he mentioned it to me I know God spoke to my heart to invest in this. I say all this because I have the peace of God about this investment and it don't matter what anyone says, I'm going to be blessed. Folks don't let your faith waiver because a man says we might be screwed. Trust that still small voice that you listened to in the beginning. Everything is going to be alright! Have a great night,
    11 points
  4. Thanks BL, I have always appreciated your posts. One thing I have learned, being here 2 years is that you have to have thick skin, and not let things bother you. I feel you have had, and still do have, plenty of support here. You chose to walk away. Your choice. You are always welcome here, but we all need to drop the drama. We are taking care of the negative people, but I feel that there are some people on these forums that are far to sensitive. DaveH drops the drama and awaits the negs
    7 points
  5. This is not a political choice made by Obama. This is compliance with a treaty negotiated by the Bush administration called the SOFA agreement. Period. I am not enamoured by the Obama administration...however it was the Iraqi government who decided this and it is well known that the present administration tried to stop this as recent negotiations have been on-going till now. The Iraqi parliment sealed this deal. If you want to assign blame put it where it belongs and that is squarely on the Iraqi Government............However.........This is an opportunity for us as investors. It is also a peril. We have been as always concerned about Iran. That is still the situation we all fear. Can Iran get it hands on Iran? The answer is Yes. But to actually do so is a bigger job than asking a question. The US has many military assets in the Gulf region. We have a battle fleet stationed in the gulf. We have many many troops based in the region. They aren't going anywhere. We have a huge presence in Kuwait and permission to protect Kuwait anytime we need to protect them. We have bases all over the region and political cooperation from some gulf states to be there and all of this is about IRAN. Containing Iran is the mission and that mission will continue as long as needed. Iraq will not fall to Iran. It maybe harrassed and influenced but fall to Iran is not the plan. Look at Iran. They have as much chaos going on in country as Iraq. That group of religious fanataics that run that country are under their own pressure from many avenues and as such the government in Iran runs the country on fear and repression. Attributes that will not last forever. Even now the population in Iran is tired of it and the winds of change blow across that land. The Iranian economy is strangled by it's political choices. They are stiffled by sanctions that continue and they have more sanctions waiting for them everytime they make a move contrary to world opinion. Their best ally in the region is slowly and violently sinking into disentigration as Syria is imploding in a bucket of blood. In Iraq the Iranian ally is Sadr and an ever greedy Maliki who relies upon the Sadrist supprort to keep him in power..........Not a stable platform at all. Eventually a consolidation of power will have to occur and as such I will bet that Maliki will have no problem shipping Sadr back to Iran once he oversteps his bounds and he will surely do so as reality overtakes rhetoric. Sadr is dangerous to Iraq but he can be marginalized and quickly if the need arises. It will arise. Dictators will not share power. Look at Maliki's past and Sadr is a tool to be used till it doesn't work anymore.......Iran is weaker than all would assume and is on borrowed time. They are dangerous. But they are also weak. If they were to go crazy and do something that required a military response they could be gone thru like crap through a goose. Look at their opposition. The GCC is opposed to Iran. The Saudi's gave permission to Israel to launch airstrikes against the Iranians if needed. So did Iraq. This is just the tip of opposition. Why do you think all those Islamic countries allow the US and it's allies to base in the Gulf region? The Iranians are the answer. They realize that an Iranian and Iraqi superpower would destroy them and they are not interested in being ruled by Persian Shiites as most GCC countries are Sunni. It's all racist and religious at it's heart and has been so for centuries. No way Saudi Arabia is gonna let this happen and they will sponser what ever is needed to contain or defeat the notion of a Sunni dominated Gulf Region. Then you have the US. It's ultimently about the oil and if a threat to the oil is manifested in an Iranian take over then watchout. We will go to war. That huge embassy in Iraq is not there for fun and games. It's is to contain Iran while assisting Iraq redevelop. Our military presence in the region is all about that mission. Protect the OIL. Redeveloping Iraq will facilitate that. Iraq's economy will help do away with Iran. Unhappy and poor Iranians will see that they got a raw deal from a government that beat them, killed them, tortured them all in the name of Allah.........The US cannot allow Iran to take Iraq. The US has an unfortunate record of supporting dictators if their country has what we want. On one hand we want a democratic state that supports our alleged form of government but we have historically had no problem supporting a repressive dictator if we get what we want. Who built Saddam? We did. He went rogue and now he is dead. Ghaddafi....dead....Mubarak gone. Saleh of Yemen...going. Assad in Syria.......on his way out. Many we have dealt with have fallen and all because as they were empowered they crushed all opposition from threatening their rule.......But opposition only hides and waits for it's time and I believe that Iran is no different...........But even so they still remain dangerous and the mission of containment will continue till no matter the conclusion. Even if it calls for an all out war against the Iranian Theocracy as it is today. This country will actively seek to empower Iraq to achieve success as it is a nessesity that we do so. I feel that our withdrawl of military forces is unfortunate and a bad descion by the Iraqi government but it is required by treaty..........but it is an opportunity as well. This could indeed allow Iraq to step out of Chapter 7 as it's military is going to be basically on it's own and in need of freedom to act in defense of Iraq......Lifting Chapter 7 will be needed to allow that.....There are many road blocks to block the lifting Chapter 7 but without a US military in Iraq in any numbers that may force many hands including the GOI's. We can only watch, wait and pray. This is only IMO.
    7 points
  6. I happen to agree with your assessment of BL. She reads a great deal; and she does bring all of that info to the table. But, the truth is that she wants to be the "dinar queen", and can't stand it if someone disagrees with her. Silly, but true. Ego, Ego, Ego. Dinar drama at its finest. Keepm just doesn't buy any B.S. Not from anyone. He has studied much of this as well; and he is open to discussion. But, is someone wants to debate keepm, better have facts. Not going to win him over with "dinar stories". And regarding the lop theory, even Adam has said that the lop is "not" out of the question. It's still in the cards, even though he doesn't anticipate it.
    6 points
  7. Thanks Hamels for the post. [bondLady] also because i believe this chat will make its way back to dv, id like to add a lil something here [bondLady] theres some of u i miss very much, carrello, francie, elixr to name just a couple there were many many, my hat goes off to adam if i wore 1 lol for what he did per the negs and bashers on his forum [bondLady] glad he did wished he would have done it sooner, i might have still came over for visits, i tried to do the right thing, and set a presidance for leaders and other fourms to show a respectful presance and go and visit with other forums as we are all in this investment together, that egos shouldnt exist in this [bondLady] and by me going to visit different forums i tried to set an example of truth and respect for my fellow investors [bondLady] some people just would not allow it, BOND LADY ROCKS who could possibly have any problem with all the research and articles she brings? O THATS RIGHT keepmwlknfny because she included her opinion. And we all know what happens when your opinion is different than Keepmwlknfny out comes his quick witted and knowledgeable attacks reguarding his pro-lop BS
    6 points
  8. Why did this topic get locked? BREAKING: President Obama will announce total drawdown of US troops from Iraq by end of 2011 in a 11:45 press conference. What Does This Mean For Our Investment??? Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/88515-breaking-president-obama-will-announce-total-drawdown-of-us-troops-from-iraq-by-end-of-2011-in-a-1145-press-conference/page__st__120#ixzz1bSzczuaQ It seemed as if the discussion and debate was ongoing and respectful and them BAM!!! Locked. Just a suggestion. In the future when a topic is locked can you make the last message notice of why and if it was moved where. Just a thought.
    6 points
  9. Pudge, everything you say is true but the fact remains that the history of the Iraq currency was very high. And yes it is FIAT and the bankers who run the world set the value. They set values not because of resources although that is the excuse they give, but because they need to choose certain countries to control and use their resources just as one would take all the appless off of one tree before moving on to the next. OPEC was given the golden goose opportunity to price oil in dollars so America could make the US dollar the reserve currency. The deal was we buy the OPEC nation oil first and they with their wealth buy back the debt we create through a debt based financial system. Every time someone tried to try an end around this system... Saddam, Ghaddaffi, Milosovic... They were met with vilification and bombs. The Iraq Dinar can go on like this a couple more years and then legally they can toss this version out and print a new one and we will all have colorful pink paper. IF the rulers of this planet choose to return Iraq to this previous position, they will. They don't need to, they can choose any of the other ways to control the world just as you stated. They can tap Alaska or where ever... I am sure there are more reasons they choose to make the middle east the sandy chessboard it is... maybe because it is a darn good sandy target for bombs. Maybe it is because the Ancient babylon Religions find this turf they prize for some reason. But they won't choose to make Iraq the cornerstone of a new system unless they decide to...as you state...It isn't necessarily more precious resource wise even though it has some decent resources... And if this currency revalues as many hope just the way it was sold to them, it won't be because eggheads with calculators (not you) based the entire revaluation on the numbers in black. More likely it is the strategic need to control Islam, Israel wants control and Israel runs us... and China is getting to be pretty darn powerful... So military bases and control as in surrounding and protecting factions on this Earth. If it weren't for nukes pointing everywhere, countries like Russia and China would have said enough a long time ago. I back up what you say, but it isn't because of anything mathamatical, it is about the banking powers and their armies moving pieces around the chess board. I think they will revalue Iraq's currency but the value of the dollar will drop. However, it may not happen that way because the powers that be have other choices. Right now 140 countries are stalling and not lending America any more support... This is to purposely weaken us. Many of our leaders sold us out over the last 100 years or made strategic errors... Anyway, I hope you see the distinction I am trying to make.
    6 points
  10. MODERATORS: I was really enjoying the conversation and opinions regarding the Obama notice that the US is withdrawing. It was informative, had great opinions, was civil, with several posts that were well thought out and really interesting. The only two posts that were offensive, IMO, were from a moderator. I am just wondering what was the issue is that shut it down. If there is new criteria that we are following, we need to know what it is. Like a wall paper hanger, I like to know where the walls are. Please enlighten us. Thank you.
    5 points
  11. That's right Zig! If investors thought there was even a tiny chance this would go south, they wouldn't be investing BY THE BILLIONS monthly in Iraq. The politics is just that-politics, a damn sideshow like it is here. Investment is already beginning to boom: KOGAS just inked a 50 BILLION dollar deal last week after a year of haggling, all of a sudden BAM, it's done. Exxon, and BP, another 100 BILLION dollars last week, Shell 12 BILLION a month or so ago. Nat Rothschild and Tony Hayward 10 BILLION in Kurdistan... FOLLOW THE MONEY PEOPLE-NOT THE POLITICS. They wouldn't be gearing up the ISX for nothing. Forex wouldn't be opening offices in Arbil. Strategic Framework Agreement being activated. Even if Maliki is not the best or most humanitarian leader, the money is coming. We didn't build a 100 acre embassy just walk away. Look at the big picture, not the children fighting at recess.
    5 points
  12. Can you imagine how many people come into BOA asking the same questions that you asked, and thats not counting phone calls they receive. Do you realize how many people asked the question, will you be participating in the RV, so I am assuming she was anticipating in you asking so she beat you to the question,,'We will not be participating in the RV'. Nothing to get excited about..
    5 points
  13. Yeah im sure thats the case, WOW you have been here for a month and you have 1,300 posts! Impressive! You would think by now one of them would have some info in it.
    5 points
  14. In an article recently published, there was concern for inflation rising above 10%, investors fleeing the country, leading to possible further devaluation of the currency. British studies centre warns of investments fleeing Iraq I will give it until Thanksgiving before making any decision, as there is currently a game of chess ongoing between Iraq and the US over immunity. It will have to reach check mate before then.. However, it is getting to the corner of walk and don't walk and I tend to agree with Sonny1 as well as the article above . It is no secret that Sonny and I clashed often in discussions. Having said that, he has my respect for his beliefs and convictions. To see folks here that hung on his every word while he was saying what they want to hear, then turning against him for maintaining the integrity of his beliefs when his words weren't what they wanted to hear, is discouraging; to say the least. He has always been a worthy adversary, and should deserve a little more respect and latitude for his beliefs. I continue to hope for a favorable outcome, but am closely reading the writing on the wall.
    4 points
  15. Most people in dinar world do not understand money, or fractional banking. They just know that there friend from church told them of this great chance to become a millionare from a $1,000.00 investment. Meanwhile the entire world economy is imploding. Bank of America has leveraged 1/4 of the entire planet earths cash on bets that they can not pay on. Now they have passed the burden onto the American people by tranfering the soon to be bad debt on to taxpayers FDIC insured bank accounts. No media is talking about the worlds largest bank preparing for the end. Even if Iraq RV's it would be meaningless because the money you would transfer the dinar to would become just as worthless. Soon it will not matter if it is an Iraq Dinar or a US Reserve Note. It is all just paper backed by nothing, NOTHING! Here is how franctional banking works - You can do it too! 1099 OID Process:IRS works for creditors. IRS has forms that allow you to be a creditor and acquire funds that are in escrow. An outstanding balance, for instance, on an American Express card is in escrow. The funds are there – you just have to tell the IRS with the proper tax filings to access those funds and pay that guy off with them or return those funds to me.You can OID any funds that go out of your bank account – and get them back. Acquire escrow funds with a 1099-A.If you file a 1099-OID as Recipient, those get reported on a 1040 if you want to get the funds returned.1099-As don’t get reported; neither do OIDs when you’re the Payor. i1040 is available on the IRS website; it gives line by line instructions for the 1040. Claiming Original Issuance - meaning any debt obligations you put out in the public. When money comes out of your checking account, when you swipe your credit card, when you sign a promissory note. Credit cards create obligations and thus as the creator you have the right to claim them. With the OID you can also fractionalize your account. Meaning pay for $50 dollars for gas with credit card A, then pay off credit card 'A' with credit card 'B', pay off credit card 'B' with your Checking account. Now with a $50 dollar purchase you created a $150 obligation which you can OID. Whether that is ethical or not is another discussion, but ITS BANKING. It's what banks do. This strategy can be used to fractionalize your account as much as you want. You can also acquire assets. Thus if I have a Student Loan for $15,000. I can use a 1099A acquisition and a 1099 OID, report it on my 1040, and poof I have acquired the asset. YOU WERE SOLD INTO SLAVERY TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE AT BIRTH Understanding the birth registration process Remember in Admiralty, Vessels documented by registration under the laws of the United States are entitled to privileges and subject to the obligations prescribed by the laws of the United States for merchant vessels. To start out with, your parents due to their prior birth registration were already considered being registered documented vessels/mentally incompetent wards of the State, being under the guardianship of the State, who by legal marriage, where the State is a third party to the marriage contract, had an offspring/ward which they brought into this world by delivery[1], the act by which the res the subject matter of a trust, or substance thereof was placed within the actual or constructive possession or control of another in the delivery room of the maternity ward of the hospital, the port of entry for vessels/wards. Then they asked your mother for your legal name[2] in Upper Lower case which consists of one Christian name and one surname which is the name on the RECORD OF LIVE BIRTH written in upper and lowercase letters. What your mother was not told is that she delivered you to an agent/licensed doctor of the State, in a federally funded hospital, an act by which the res[3] the subject matter of a trust or substance thereof was placed within the actual or constructive possession or control of another, the State, for which in equity they created a Certificate of Live Birth with the all CAPITAL LETTERS and recorded that warehouse receipt in the commercial registry as cargo under transportation. The hospital documented your birth with the legal name Title[4] in a distinctive style or appellation, Upper Lower case, the name by which anything is known, and because under trust law whenever title or money is transferred, a trust is created by operation of law, representing you, for which they created a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH in all CAPITAL LETTERS, which was filed with the local Registrar and registered with the State, via Certificate of registry[5], in commercial maritime law which is a certificate of registration of a vessel according to the registry acts, for the purpose of giving her a national character i.e. U.S. citizen born in a federal zone, hospital zip code, in the judicial district in which the birthing of the vessel occurred identified by the filing with the Florida State Department of Health, Office of Vital Statistics within 5 days after your delivery, and then sent to Washington, D.C., for which the hospital receives a check for that vessel. Then the local registrar issued your parents a copy of the warehouse receipt for the cargo, the CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH from the State of Florida in all CAPITAL LETTERS, representing a vessel/ward of the State representing the abandonment of your title by registration. The State of Florida the Creator/Trustor then created a Cestui que trust (constructive trust) behind your back after the fact, with the all Upper Lower case name, and placed a value on it, based on actuarial estimates of your future labor/human resource. Then they issued a Bond against the trust’s asset, a certificate of indebtedness[6] and funded the bond through the IMF based on your future earnings from your labor as the contributing beneficiary, which is a trust asset, and set up a Federal Reserve account for the same. So now the IMF has a beneficial interest in and out of the trust estate, the legal title is now vested with the State of Florida, and held by the Alien Property Custodian in Washington, D.C.; equitable title copy of CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH held by you representing equity/labor; the Governor acting as the managing fiduciary trustee; the Secretary of State Registrar acting as fiduciary trustee until you turn of legal age; and you acting as fiduciary trustee for the trust with duties and obligations once you turn of legal age, and the Secretary of Treasury in charge of the Federal Reserve account. That ward/vessel is a now a Vessel of the United States, documented by registration under the laws of the United States and subject to its laws and jurisdiction, and the Title goes to the Alien Property Custodian in Washington, D.C. In a maritime in rem action, jurisdiction over the person of the "defendant", the vessel, is premised upon the presence of the vessel within the district in which the court sits. The only vessel they have jurisdiction over is the trust, that is evidenced by the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH, establishing the three points of jurisdiction NAME, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER and DATE OF BIRTH, the Federal Reserve account under the supervision of the Secretary of the Treasury who is also the managing trustee for the Social Security Administration and governor for the IMF. Up until you turned of legal age to work, the deputy Registrar on behalf of the Registrar/ Secretary of State, or the Registrar/Secretary of State whichever signed the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH has been the fiduciary trustee for that trust created behind your back and securitized where the government owns it in part and you own it in part. Meaning the Registrar had the fiduciary duty and obligation for that Trust up until you started your first job. That is why the State can take the child away from the parents, because it is the duty and obligation of the fiduciary trustee as guardian, to look after the ward, and make sure he or she is taken care of properly. When you filled out the Application Form SS-5 for a Social Security Card, the Registrar turned over the duty and obligation of the fiduciary trustee over to you, because he did not want to be responsible as fiduciary for anything you do in commerce using that SS Card/number. You then became the contributing beneficiary and fiduciary trustee for that trust with the duties and obligations for filing and paying the licensing taxes, registration taxes, and taxes on profits, gains and income generated for the trust once it starts to operate in commerce with a Social Security Card/number on all commercial transactions, because you on behalf of the beneficial owner “the trust”, which is resident within a territory occupied by military forces with which the United States is at war, or a resident outside the United States, for which you are considered an enemy doing business with a license and tax identifying number for the purposes “of trade” effectively connected with the conduct of a trade or business within said territory for which you are granted a license under the authority of the President pursuant to the Trading with the Enemy Act, as an enemy in order to trade, or attempt to trade with the enemy for the beneficial owner the “trust”, and as the fiduciary trustee paying, satisfying, compromising, or giving security for the payment or satisfaction of any debt or obligation, and for drawing, accepting, paying, presenting for acceptance or payment, or indorsing any negotiable instrument or chose in action on behalf of the trust. IT GETS WORSE - YOU ARE WORTH MILLIONS - BUT YOU DONT OWN YOUR NAME - YOUR STRAW MAN DOES! SO WHO IS YOUR STRAWMAN? YOU WERE SOLD INTO SLAVERY TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE AT BIRTH Understanding the birth registration process Remember in Admiralty, Vessels documented by registration under the laws of the United States are entitled to privileges and subject to the obligations prescribed by the laws of the United States for merchant vessels. To start out with, your parents due to their prior birth registration were already considered being registered documented vessels/mentally incompetent wards of the State, being under the guardianship of the State, who by legal marriage, where the State is a third party to the marriage contract, had an offspring/ward which they brought into this world by delivery[1], the act by which the res the subject matter of a trust, or substance thereof was placed within the actual or constructive possession or control of another in the delivery room of the maternity ward of the hospital, the port of entry for vessels/wards. Then they asked your mother for your legal name[2] in Upper Lower case which consists of one Christian name and one surname which is the name on the RECORD OF LIVE BIRTH written in upper and lowercase letters. What your mother was not told is that she delivered you to an agent/licensed doctor of the State, in a federally funded hospital, an act by which the res[3] the subject matter of a trust or substance thereof was placed within the actual or constructive possession or control of another, the State, for which in equity they created a Certificate of Live Birth with the all CAPITAL LETTERS and recorded that warehouse receipt in the commercial registry as cargo under transportation. The hospital documented your birth with the legal name Title[4] in a distinctive style or appellation, Upper Lower case, the name by which anything is known, and because under trust law whenever title or money is transferred, a trust is created by operation of law, representing you, for which they created a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH in all CAPITAL LETTERS, which was filed with the local Registrar and registered with the State, via Certificate of registry[5], in commercial maritime law which is a certificate of registration of a vessel according to the registry acts, for the purpose of giving her a national character i.e. U.S. citizen born in a federal zone, hospital zip code, in the judicial district in which the birthing of the vessel occurred identified by the filing with the Florida State Department of Health, Office of Vital Statistics within 5 days after your delivery, and then sent to Washington, D.C., for which the hospital receives a check for that vessel. Then the local registrar issued your parents a copy of the warehouse receipt for the cargo, the CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH from the State of Florida in all CAPITAL LETTERS, representing a vessel/ward of the State representing the abandonment of your title by registration. The State of Florida the Creator/Trustor then created a Cestui que trust (constructive trust) behind your back after the fact, with the all Upper Lower case name, and placed a value on it, based on actuarial estimates of your future labor/human resource. Then they issued a Bond against the trust’s asset, a certificate of indebtedness[6] and funded the bond through the IMF based on your future earnings from your labor as the contributing beneficiary, which is a trust asset, and set up a Federal Reserve account for the same. So now the IMF has a beneficial interest in and out of the trust estate, the legal title is now vested with the State of Florida, and held by the Alien Property Custodian in Washington, D.C.; equitable title copy of CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH held by you representing equity/labor; the Governor acting as the managing fiduciary trustee; the Secretary of State Registrar acting as fiduciary trustee until you turn of legal age; and you acting as fiduciary trustee for the trust with duties and obligations once you turn of legal age, and the Secretary of Treasury in charge of the Federal Reserve account. That ward/vessel is a now a Vessel of the United States, documented by registration under the laws of the United States and subject to its laws and jurisdiction, and the Title goes to the Alien Property Custodian in Washington, D.C. In a maritime in rem action, jurisdiction over the person of the "defendant", the vessel, is premised upon the presence of the vessel within the district in which the court sits. The only vessel they have jurisdiction over is the trust, that is evidenced by the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH, establishing the three points of jurisdiction NAME, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER and DATE OF BIRTH, the Federal Reserve account under the supervision of the Secretary of the Treasury who is also the managing trustee for the Social Security Administration and governor for the IMF. Up until you turned of legal age to work, the deputy Registrar on behalf of the Registrar/ Secretary of State, or the Registrar/Secretary of State whichever signed the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH has been the fiduciary trustee for that trust created behind your back and securitized where the government owns it in part and you own it in part. Meaning the Registrar had the fiduciary duty and obligation for that Trust up until you started your first job. That is why the State can take the child away from the parents, because it is the duty and obligation of the fiduciary trustee as guardian, to look after the ward, and make sure he or she is taken care of properly. When you filled out the Application Form SS-5 for a Social Security Card, the Registrar turned over the duty and obligation of the fiduciary trustee over to you, because he did not want to be responsible as fiduciary for anything you do in commerce using that SS Card/number. You then became the contributing beneficiary and fiduciary trustee for that trust with the duties and obligations for filing and paying the licensing taxes, registration taxes, and taxes on profits, gains and income generated for the trust once it starts to operate in commerce with a Social Security Card/number on all commercial transactions, because you on behalf of the beneficial owner “the trust”, which is resident within a territory occupied by military forces with which the United States is at war, or a resident outside the United States, for which you are considered an enemy doing business with a license and tax identifying number for the purposes “of trade” effectively connected with the conduct of a trade or business within said territory for which you are granted a license under the authority of the President pursuant to the Trading with the Enemy Act, as an enemy in order to trade, or attempt to trade with the enemy for the beneficial owner the “trust”, and as the fiduciary trustee paying, satisfying, compromising, or giving security for the payment or satisfaction of any debt or obligation, and for drawing, accepting, paying, presenting for acceptance or payment, or indorsing any negotiable instrument or chose in action on behalf of the trust. IT GETS WORSE - YOU ARE WORTH MILLIONS - BUT YOU DONT OWN YOUR NAME - YOUR STRAW MAN DOES! SO WHO IS YOUR STRAWMAN?
    4 points
  16. All the big oil companies have dumped 200 Billion into Iraq in the last two months, ISX gearing up to go live, Forex is getting ready to move into Arbil!! This would NOT be happening if there was a civil war brewing. Follow the money, not the politics in Iraq... these clowns will bicker till the end of time, but they are still puppets in the grand scheme, just like our leaders are here-they want their piece of the pie. The Iraqis did not originate this plan, we did. Do you really think the folks who implemented this would leave TRILLIONS of dollars in the hands of bickering tribal idiots? NOPE- thx Dinarbot!!
    4 points
  17. I exchanged some emails with Tman today and he didn't answer my questions. He said 3.68 in the call in show and that the Bushes were slated for a buck ten of it. He said the global settlements have to complete. He said he was a signatory on the settlements. I know the lies the Bushes, Clintons, Cheneys, Obamas, Bernankes, Greenspans have handed out to the public... And I don't choose to believe anything they say anymore. I choose to believe the White Hats know what they are doing until proven otherwise. Thus far I remain open minded, hopeful, optimistic and know one thing for sure... the elite made their money by being corrupt and sending young men to die... not because they were brilliant businessmen.
    4 points
  18. I have to ask...Why does the U.S. have to be there? IMO, Many other countries have RV/RD their currency without the U.S. baby sitting them. Does anyone really think the Iraqi's don't want to increase their currency? Look at the value of the other's around them, Kuwait for one and with all the oil companies and others there to bring up their economy, it would only make sense they RV/RD someday even without the presence of the U.S.. I got a friend into this and with all the pumping that has been going on, he always told me "I really don't expect they will RV until our troops are out of Iraq, no matter what the so called guru's say." I feel encouraged by his words more today than ever.
    4 points
  19. Just out of curiosity Pudge, why are you hanging around this site and spending so much time/energy on a "non event"?
    4 points
  20. i know it doesnt matter what i really think, and trust me i want it to hit as bad as you all do, i have 7 years in (3 of really caring) so dont think i dont want it to pop. i just think that our weak government (not saying obama is the reason why it didnt-wont happen), but the weakness that our government has is there incompetence and if we had a stronger lead in the u.s they would of forced the issue, and got us a little something out of this, but our weak president (i voted for him) is brutaly awful at everything. i have never plugged this and i wont give you all the name of it, because it is seperate from this, but i have a political blog that has had 800,000 at one time on it, and if this doesnt rv (it was set up to rv) i will make sure obama never gets re-elected, and thats a promise..... sorry to rant, but this president is the worst we have ever had (bush jr included)
    4 points
  21. Franks Conference Call Replay #'s with Delta Thursday Night and Call Notes 10/21/2011 Franks Conference Call Replay #'s with Delta Thursday Night https://app.freeconferencecallhd.com/playback.html?n=108-17-65-67-17-65-67-17-65-6768-17-65-6712612510835-17-65-6749-17-65-67-17-65-67-17-65-67;0OTc3NDYwNjg=0 760-569-7699 pin 156996 # (The below call notes were posted by Highhopes in PTR Forum) Frank’s CC Notes 10.20.2011 CC being recorded Frank arrives on call Most unique CCs he’s had a privilege to be on with us tonight. Update on some things that are important for us. Frank, Jan and Delta are doing well and having a great time together! Interpretation of what’s going on and intel on files especially one on this coming Sat. Read More Link on Right Frank opens with prayer. Please pray for Jorofu in Puerto Rico and his family for the loss of their daughter who was struck and killed by a drunk driver last night. This morning some info on Iraqia TV – there is a concept that everything is set and we will see some things happening very soon. Do we need HCL, Article 140, Erbil agreement? Not really necessary but would be nice. Investors on TV say they need confidence to come in and invest in Iraq. They are having a hard time getting their paperwork completed and many issues with the process to get setup and get in. Everyone wants to go to Iraq, no place else better to invest. Ground floor opportunities await! UK signed memorandum to do all kinds of business in Iraq. Pay close attention to investors. The first stage of a rocket needs to be ignited. Lift the 3 zeros. The rate may well come out 1:1 to start off with. Why? Because it’s easy!! Investors need reassurance. Shabibi may likely be setting up that reassurance by getting the banks ready for them. Fiscal year? When is it? End of Hajj? After Eid? End of Lunar calendar? Jan. 1? Shouldn’t SOMETHING be done…before…the new fiscal year?? Something…PREPARATORY??? Before the salaries are paid perhaps. Third Thursday of the month is when Iraqi gov’t staff gets paid. Nothing from Maliki of late; no more complaining. The Kurds are IN CONTROL. That’s where the investors will come to invest; Kurdistan region. 33 billion from Lybia – some of this “could” be used to buy dinar to rebuild what Kadafi destroyed. Take it to your own blue couch. We are not hearing much from the CBI now are we? This is a good thing! Things are either being done or are done! Financial committee is following up with a major process behind closed doors, says Delta. Things are REALLY starting to straighten out! Many things appear to be coming together all around the same time frame. CBI is silent now. This is GOLDEN! Maliki is quiet now! Silence is golden! Banking systems are good. Streets are being “cleaned”. Mubarak, Kaddafi… Kuwait is having issues, 10,000 demonstrators demanding resignation of PM due to corruption, scandals, living situations. Iraq will become the most stable country in Middle East. Don’t pay attention to GOI articles. Only CBI articles should be paid attention to. Look at the exchange rates in the Lybian dinar, there have been no changes over the past year, even with the uprising. Once Iraq RVs their currency it will NEVER go back down again! Frank refers to Head of IMF speaking about the coming global meltdown that is immenent. She was talking to those who are in power to launch the first stage! The US protects the IQD. They (Iraq) came to us last month and now WE are going over to them?? TEAM is seeing inclinations of that the UN may show up in Iraq on Saturday and may have an announcement. The UN has the KEYS to the shackles of Iraq. The G20 emergency meeting; there is a huge lack of information out this meeting. And for the first time ever on a Sunday, says Delta. Follow Hillarious!! Frank and Delta monologue about Biden. They hint at there being different tiers of Chapter 7. Shabibi has a part of it and the US has their part. Our government depends on lottery winners! Are you one of them??? Don’t BE! The RV will never happen on a Friday or a weekend. Don’t listen to rumors! Ignore GOI articles. Warka backs up deposits 100%! They are backed up by the CBI; the CBI protects 1000% better than FDIC Frank winds down and ends the call.
    3 points
  22. 6:00 pm Eastern mailman17 says to (17:57:15): UNTIL IRAQ GETS RELEASED FROM SANCIONS ( ALL THEY HAVE NOW IS TRADE) THEY ARE STILL UNDER CONTROL OF THE U.S. AND THE U.N. NOW…/ glk says (17:57:30): Thats my thought too Mailman mailman17 says to (17:57:58): IF THE U.S. IS PLANNING TO RMEOVE ALL TROOPS BY EOY…THAT MUST MEAN O KNOWS SOMETHING WE DONT AS IN SANCTIONS GONE AND LIFTED BY EOY ACTUALLY…THIS IS VERY GOOD NEWS PEEPS AND WE ALL KNOW SANCTIONS AINT COMING WITHOUT A ? glk says (17:59:06): RV mailman17 says to (17:59:19): BINGO…THANK YOU…ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING AND A TRADEABLE CURRENCY NEWS HAS BEEN VERY SCARCE LATELY VERY GOOD SIGN JUST PLEASE WATCH OUT FOR MISINFORMATION NOW IS THE TIME IT WILL COME OUT IN SWARMS GO WITH WHAT WE KNOW PICTURE A CAGE FULL OF BIG BAD GORRILAS….AND IN THE CORNER IS A LITTLE CHIMP…WAIVING HIS ARMS AND PRETENDING TO BE ALL BAD A** SADR IS THAT LITTLE CHIMP desertnuke says to (18:02:31): hey mm and all of DS mailman17 says to (18:02:40): HEY ACTUALLY…STOPPED IN FOR A SEC…DIN DIN TIME… SEE YA ALL LATER
    3 points
  23. Betty, Warning - Humor may be hazardous to your recovery...but, I sure hope not!! The guys miss you and I'm sure this is what they are thinking: I wish I had a magic caber To make it go away; I'd wave my caber over you Until you were okay. I'd think good thoughts; I'd send you love; I'd transmit healing vibes; My caber and I would surely beat Whatever the doc prescribes. But there is no magic caber, so I cannot cast a spell; Just know you're often in my thoughts, And I hope you'll soon be well!
    3 points
  24. Oh and for the person who called me a racist... How would you like to see the dozens of videos I produced with the black community for the black community for no pay" Here is one. There are dozens more... We produced videos on a long list of subjects --drugs, alcohol, gangs, drinking and driving, pregnancy---for teens with black and hispanic teens in Madison Wisconsin. How much time have you volunteered in the black community? And My writing partner is Jewish and just about every person in my high school friends is Jewish. The point of the history lesson is to save people from a Luciferian con job that clearly people are falling for hook line and sinker.
    3 points
  25. Direct warning from Clinton to Iran: Do not interfere in Iraq and we will keep a strong presence in the region Posted: October 22, 2011 and sent Secretary of State Hillarious Clinton on Saturday, a veiled warning to Iran not to seek to intervene in Iraqi affairs, a day after confirmation of President Barack Obama to withdraw U.S. military from Iraq at the end of the year. The Hillarious Clinton on the sidelines of her visit to Dushanbe “When we open this new chapter of relations with a sovereign Iraq, telling the Iraqis, the United States to your side when you step a new confirmation of your democracy.” and U.S. President Barack Obama on Friday, he would pull about 39 000 troops are still stationed in Iraq by the end of 2011 this, after almost nine years to enter the U.S. to Iraq, which killed more than 4,400 American soldiers, criticized the American right decision, saying it would increase Iran’s influence in this country. She said U.S. Secretary of State, “we say to the countries of the region, especially to Iraq’s neighbors , that America would stand by its allies and friends, including Iraq, to defend our security and our common interests, “adding that her country” will remain a strong presence in the region as evidence of its continued commitment toward Iraq and the future of this region, which is rich in a lot of hope, it is necessary to maintain the effects State to follow the path towards democracy. “ said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in an interview on Saturday, with the station “CNN” American, that the confirmation of President Barack Obama an American military withdrawal from Iraq at the end of the year “is a good thing,” and expressed his belief that “It will lead to a change in relations between Tehran and Baghdad” (did not specify the type.) responded Iranian President about the possibility of his training the Iraqi army after the withdrawal of U.S. troops by saying that “the Iraqi government is an independent, which makes the decision on how to train its forces,” adding that “we have historical ties and friendly and strong with Iraq in all fields, as well as the excellent relations between the peoples of the two countries In this sense we say that relations between Iran and Iraq is a special relationship at the international level. “ Iran has taken a position well thought out too during the American intervention in 2003 which eliminated the regime of President Saddam Hussein, the main enemy, and brought to power Shiite majority in the country, but quickly demanded the withdrawal of U.S. forces, accusing them of forming an element of tension in the region, and also demand for the same reasons the withdrawal of U.S. forces in the Gulf, and Western troops in Afghanistan. The United States accuses Iran is backing armed groups in Iraq has launched attacks against U.S. forces, in addition to supporting organizations and currents loyal to its policy. http://www.alsumarianews.com/ar/8/30072/news-details-Iraq%20international%20news.html
    3 points
  26. I feel like Clinton is much more important and crucial to this investment then obama...she has so much more influence and power IMO...oboma is just a weak puppet
    3 points
  27. Thanks Bondlady for the chat. I believe we all know nothing is set in stone with this investment. I do respect your point of view and you never promise something you are not sure of, this sets you apart from the rest. Have a super weekend.
    3 points
  28. Hey Andy, I appreciation your frustration with the Arab world at this point in their history. I am not favorable to Arab encroachment into my life or the life of the U.S., especially the inclusion of the their law. They haven’t been what they once were. As you have point out they have been repressed, murdered, and enslaved. For hundreds of years they have been under dictatorships that have squashed creativity and questioned any show of advancement. Their funding for research is still limited. However, it has not always been that way. Many of the new discoveries that have been made in science and art have their foundation in Arab contributions and have become an integral part of human civilization. I hope these few things will assist you and others appreciate the historic background of the Arabs, especially in their contribution to society. 1. Arabs enhanced and developed the arts and sciences and preserved the libraries of the early centuries of the Greek, Roman, and Byzantine cultures. During the Dark Ages of Europe, much of had been learning was preserved for the world through the Arab libraries in the universities of Morocco, Mali, and Egypt. 2. In mathematics, the Arab zero, provided new solutions of complicated math problems and is the foundation of our computer world. The language of computers is based on 0 and 1. 3. The Arabs invented and developed algebra and made great strides in trigonometry. (Al-Khwarizmi, credited with the founding of algebra.) 4. The writings of Leonardo da Vinci, Leonardo Fibonacci of Pisa, and Master Jacob of Florence show the Arab influence on mathematical studies in European universities. 5. Arab astronomers of the Middle Ages compiled astronomical charts and tables that are used in observatories such as those at Palmyra. 6. They developed ways to determine the length of a degree, to establish longitude and latitude, and to investigate the relative speeds of sound and light. 7. An Arab, Al-Razi, a medical doctor of the ninth century, was an authority on contagion, and was the first to diagnose smallpox and measles and to associate these diseases and others with human contamination and contagion. 8. They were among the first to introduce such remedies as mercurial ointment, and to use animal gut for sutures. 9. They developed of the magnetic needle for the compass in the ninth century, which certainly advanced travel and exploration. 10. Alhazen wrote a book in the tenth century on optics, explored optical illusions, the rainbow, and the camera, which led to the beginning of photographic instruments. 11. Alhazen also made discoveries in atmospheric refractions, comets, studied the eclipse, and laid the foundation for the later development of the microscope and the telescope. 12. Perhaps the greatest contribution of the Arabs to human civilization has been the phonetic alphabet. 13. Other developments that helped civilization were the water wheel, cisterns, irrigation, water wells at fixed levels, and the water clock. You might consider reading “Arab Contributions to Human Civilizations,” by Mary Macron; Rom Landau‘s The Arab Heritage of Western Civilization (The League of Arab States, Arab Information Center, 747 Third Avenue, New York, NY 10017); The Genius of Arab civilization: source of Renaissance (John Hayes, ed., New York University Press, 1975), History of the Arabs (Philip K. Hitti, St. Martin‘s Press, tenth edition 1970), and The Legacy of Islam (Sir Thomas Arnold and Alfred Guillaume, eds., Oxford University Press (1968).
    3 points
  29. So it begins..........Here we have a triumphant Sadr starting to assert his supposed power or influence on the GOI.....He mentioned many areas of failure by this government and he listed demands he wanted enacted to relieve pressure on his supporters and all others. He even mentioned that at this time he refused to bring down Maliki's government for reasons he had determined would be in his corner..........Since the GOI had failed to reach agreement with the US over troops to be used for training and the immunity status of those troops he seems to act as he has more power and is making his demands for his followers..He is right.........for the moment. Imagine if you will a compliant Maliki. I cannot. Maliki is a man determined to become the El-Supremo and has reniged on any and every agreement he ever made with any bloc and as such it would seem that he will continue with his treachery until there is no opposition. That in my mind will eventually include Sadr. Once Maliki has subdued all opposition and corralled the other blocs to his will Sadr will become a liability to Maliki. IMO this speech is only the beginning of his end. Even in his moment of triumph he begins to weaken. A true meglo-maniac if ever there was one. You can't have two power hungry morons in the same government and have all go well. Plus look at the history be tween these two people. When it was a nessesity Maliki had no problem trying to kill him. Maliki gave his blessing to US forces taking out the Mahdi army,(Sadr supporters), and there was a concerted and successful operation to quell Sadr by wholesale slaughter and even exile for Sadr to Iran. While his guys were getting the crap blown out of them the boy Mullah ran to his masters in Iran for protection. He was only ressurected to provide Maliki a margin of victory in the next election by the same guy who was trying to kill him with a deal brokered by Iran to make sure Maliki would survive. The Iranians knew that Allawi would win without intervention and there position in Iraq would be suddenly and abruptly dissappear with an Iraqi List victory...........Hence the need of Sadr and his bloc. But that time is now over...........I personally dispise these people. For a group of people who claim honor and respect are vital to their way of life there isn't an ounce of honor amongst the whole bunch and quite frankly they deserve each other..........However only one can survive and I don't see Sadr as strong as he would like to say....... In reaction to the announced withdrawl of US forces by years end Ahmajenidad stated that his country would provide more support to Iraq especially in the area of military training and should have done so years ago to negate American interference in the Middle East.......He seems to think that the Iraqi people have forgotten a long and protracted war with Iraq. A nasty and bloody one at that. I don't believe that is the case and as such I believe that Iran will not achieve the level of influence they seek. He also seems to forget that most of the Middle East fears Iran and is aligned against Iran. That is a fact.he will have to deal with. Iran is going to impose itself on Iraq but in the end they will fail.........Because they are dealing with Maliki. Maliki is nothing short of the proverbial snake in the grass and he will never fully bend to Iranian will. He cannot be trusted by all sides and he will do what ever he needs to do to insure he and/or his party will remain in control of Iraq......He clearly has made it his policy to install whoever he can from his party,(Dawa), into any position he can. High or low positions in the government it doesn't matter. That is exactly what the Baath party did to maintain control in Iraq for many many years and since that worked so well for the Baath party it is his model of choice. Iran will play second fiddle to a Maliki governemnt. Sadr will play whatever fiddle assigned to him and only till rhetoric is overcome by political reality. This is all only IMO. Just some thoughts I have considered as here of late many have asked what does this mean to our investment. I actually agree with Sonny1 about the withdrawl of US forces...that it is not a good thing for the investment........ but I also see scenarios that it could work to our favor or at least hope that they will. We had always hoped this would have all been resolved before the withdrawl as to hand over the wheel of the bus to people who can't drive the bus is not a welcome situation...............but there is more to this than just black or white and it's just never easy with these folks. Having said all this I believe there are some in Iraq that have been watching and learning and the situation progresses as we go along and all is not lost. But the times are a changing within Iraq and as usual we the investors are over here waiting and watching with a deeper unease today than 2 days ago.We will see a lot happen that we will be uncomfortable with and as such a lot of hand wringing is gonna happen within our dinar community. Naturally we will fear the changes and even feel uneasy at what the GOI will do. But we are invested and will have to go along or get out. Many will be challenged.....very shortly. Ironically it will be amusing to see how the okies and the OOM spin this up. Since our military is leaving who will they blame for their supposed intel now? Yes we will remain but our position of holding the Iraqi leash is gone and I always thought that their stories of high up intel was built on the myth we were in control. We were......but not now. That horse is about to set loose reign free..............IMO only.
    3 points
  30. This is only the beginning. Once Americans fail to complain, phase three is the closing of ALL ports, east and west, and ALL products brought up from Mexico. The US/Mexican customs will then be located in Kansas. Texans were able to stop the "super highway" from being built, but that only slowed this down so existing roadways could be "reallocated" This was part of the reason the deepest port in the USA, in Long beach, CA, was given to China three years ago. The village idiot was given fast track privilege by congress. That means ALL politicians have sold us out. SAN DIEGO — The first Mexican carrier is set to roll into the U.S. interior Friday, but the Teamsters union and two California congressmen haven't given up on stopping the cross-border trucking program that had been stalled for years by safety concerns and political wrangling. U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter and Bob Filner joined Teamsters President James Hoffa at the border Wednesday to take a bipartisan stand against the pilot project that will allow approved Mexican trucks to come deep into the United States. The first one will enter Texas. Hunter is a San Diego-area Republican, while Filner is a Democrat whose district includes California's border with Mexico. They were surrounded at a news conference by more than 75 union members from at least five states. Only on msnbc.com Republicans criticize Obama over Iraq withdrawal Live vote: Was Iraq war worth human, financial cost? PhotoBlog Public display of fallen leaders' bodies a tradition 'Occupy' protesters find allies among the wealthy Dating after diagnosis: Love in the time of chemotherapy Flooded Thailand races to rescue pets, loose crocs Allowing Mexican trucking companies to deliver goods rather than transfer them to U.S. haulers at the border will put American jobs and highway safety at risk, they said. "We're literally taking good jobs here in America and passing them over the line to Mexico," Hunter told the crowd, many holding signs reading "NAFTA kills" and "Stop the war on workers." Washington on Friday last week approved the first Mexican trucking company, Transportes Olympic, nearly two decades after the hotly contested provision of the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement set off lawsuits and a costly trade dispute between the neighboring countries. 'They have to compete with us' Transportes Olympic's long-haul truck will cross the border Friday at Laredo, Texas, and head about 450 miles north to Garland, Texas, to deliver industrial equipment, said Guillermo Perez, the transport manager at the firm in the industrial Monterrey suburb of Apodaca, about two hours south of Laredo. He dismissed claims that Mexican trucking companies and their drivers do not meet U.S. safety standards. He said his company has a strict, random drug testing policy for its 61 drivers and it has bought more than a dozen trucks in the past two years. U.S. inspectors will check the trucks Thursday and will also have a database on truckers who have been approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, Perez said. Advertise | AdChoices "It's a really controlled program. There's no way to avoid the law," he said. "We are really prepared for this. It's not weird for me that some (U.S. trucking) companies are willing to shut it down because now they have to compete with us." Perez declined to reveal how much his drivers earn. Story: Senate OKs ban of Mexico trucks on U.S. roads The company was approved under the pilot program in 2009 before President Barack Obama's administration cancelled it. Mexico retaliated by placing tariffs on 99 agricultural products worth more than $2 billion annually. Mexico cut the tariffs in half this summer after Obama and Mexican President Felipe Calderon approved an inspection and monitoring program for the companies that had been approved in 2009. The Mexican government has vowed to lift the rest once the truck heads out of the border zone Friday. "We're really excited," Perez said. "Now we can provide door-to-door service, so it's about a 15 percent savings for companies." 'Disaster' Opponents say the fight isn't over. Hunter has co-authored a bill sponsored by U.S. Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., that would stop the pilot program in three years and require Congress to vote on the issue again. "We hope we can stop this before we have a disaster," Filner said. Criminal activity has been a problem for years even within the U.S. government's strictest trusted carrier programs. Drug trafficking organizations have smuggled tons of drugs inside trucks driven by approved truckers coming from inspected and certified facilities inside Mexico. Todd Spencer, the executive vice president of the Independent Drivers Association, which represents small independent trucking businesses, said 100,000 trucking jobs will be lost. Advertise | AdChoices Proponents say it will spur economic growth as companies save millions by sending the goods door-to-door. "We certainly hope that it cannot be stopped," said James Clark, director of the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce's Mexico Business Center. "The U.S. has been in violation of the NAFTA agreement ever since the beginning of the trucking issue," he added. "Mexican trucks have every right to come into the U.S. under NAFTA as long as the trucks are fully inspected to U.S. standards and the drivers speak English." Supporters say especially strict safeguards have been implemented: Electronic devices will track the routes drivers take, how long they drive and how long they rest. Participating drivers must undergo national security and criminal background checks, and inspectors will administer oral English-proficiency exams. Three U.S. trucking companies have been given the green light under the program to drive into Mexico, according to the Mexican government. But Hoffa said American truckers don't want to drive into Mexico because of the country's violent crime problem. About 70 percent of goods from the $4 billion trade between the two nations are transported by land, according to the Mexican government. My link
    3 points
  31. We need to wake up. We are not leaving Iraq. We are being thrown out. Sadar has gotten his way. He said many times in the past that if any troops are left behind or they did not make their deadline . They would be treated as hostiles. They are hand in hand with Iran now. They screwed us. WHY . Cause we let them. The USA has forgotten how to win wars due to liberal political correctness. They were a conquered people who we did not immediately disarm (should have been step 1) and because of our inadequate government. They have made fools of us. AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE
    3 points
  32. What about that giant embassy that was built, who will guard that?
    3 points
  33. evened you out. I think it is important (especially for newbies) to see not only what other sites are saying, but also to see our reaction to it. It has a certain entertainment value to it as well. If newbies are on the fence about what site to get their info from, this can be their "one stop shop". They can see here that (I don't think) any of us take these jokers seriously. They can also start keeping a tally of how many times these guys have been WRONG! It is 8:17 AM. Do you know where your RV is? Thx Dah-kota!
    3 points
  34. Personally, I think it means Chapter 7 is about to be removed, Iraq will be SELF- SUFFICIENT to a certain extent & they will have to RV. just to exist on the global trade market.
    3 points
  35. This my friends is a very foolish move: Father God we thank you for this wealth tranfer blessing to your children, in Jesus holy name. (as posted by jonnywg) For those who believe the Jesus who died for your sins and mine is behind this shell game of fiat currency, then you have no idea what the bible states about true riches. God has no need for your wordly possesions. It is your sole he requires. The love of money he despises. 1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.Man can not have two masters. You can not serve God and mammon (money)! It is through our suffering God is glorified. Millions of sinful men running around as instant millionares would not serve the Lord. This belief that GOD wants you to be smothered in mammon is false. And how easily we are deceived my brothers and sisters. This twisted comment has be posted by one one the worst offenders on this site. Blasphamy is all this brother speaks. The words I speak are true and from what I have experienced here in the past, nobody want to really bring Gods word into these discussions. If you are a true believer in our Lord Jesus Christ you will not condone this false prophets lies. This brother will have to answer for what he has done! 16.2 Peter 2:1 [ False Teachers and Their Destruction ] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter) 1 John 4:1 [ On Denying the Incarnation ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    3 points
  36. are you really telling me to wake up? I read more garbage posts than you can believe every day. I have been reading them for 2 years. This thread qualifies as a top 50. People like you and others that bash the posts bring even less to the table IMO. All you do is complain about how bad the posts are, yet you bring no info. All you bring is whine, and no cheese. Try bringing some positive news to the site, if you cant, then dont bother posting
    3 points
  37. Thank you for your comments, which I believe to be so true. Billions are pouring into Iraq. Nothing will stop others from making money in Iraq. And it would not have mattered how long our troops stayed in Iraq, it would not change their culture. If they have a civil war, it has nothing to do with us. It would have happened eventually. I am glad our guys won't be in the middle of it.
    3 points
  38. Not sure why it would get locked. Maybe shabibi pushed the wrong button? I read all of the last thread and I worry this will turn bad quick if we leave but im thinking maybe the usa is playing possum. Say we leave and then wait for Iran to show up and then blast the hell out of them and their leader. We have been on a killing spree this year, why not one more? Iraq needs to be able to protect themselves and use the fighter jets and equipment they just bought, and they need to rid of chapter 7 to use that stuff. Lets stay grounded, stay positive and play nice. Positive energy creates positive events.
    3 points
  39. How about we just stop bashing people, period? Even Okie. I for one am tired of all the negativity, regardless of who it is directed at. We are all here to learn about our investment, and to cheer it on and to encourage each other. Members that continue with the bashing, regardless of whether it is a DV member, or someone else from another site will be subject to permanent mod preview or the ban hammer.
    3 points
  40. I didn't buy enough to do much with, other than enhance my program that helps kids & young adults learn careers and follow their dreams. Thing is, even with out the extra help from dinar funding, I WILL somehow get it done! No matter what. No kid in my program, care & guidance will suffer or do without. So I will hang in there and keep doing what I do best. Caring, educating and enhancing the lives of others. Everyone has a talent, ability or gift that can be used to make life better for others. It can be done without money. Although money helps Good luck with what ever you decide to do. GO RV
    3 points
  41. Why are we all getting our panties in a wad when we have an embassy that has to have 40,000 to run it and we supposedly have 9 military bases over there. WTH?
    3 points
  42. You are totally out of line - Adam does not pump dinar on this site. You are allowed on this site for free, please respect the owner's right to run the site as he chooses. If you don't like the site and how it is run, please take your negative attitude to one of the other dinar sites. Additional posting of negative and derogatory comments about Adam and this site will result in you being banned.
    3 points
  43. here is the dinar history 1932-1949 Currency unit consisting of 1,000 fils or 20 dirhams. When officially introduced at the end of the British mandate (1932), the Iraqi dinar was equal to, and was linked to, the British pound sterling, which at that time was equal to US$4.86. 1949–1971 Iraqi dinar (ID) equaled US$4.86 between 1932 and 1949 and after devaluation in 1949, equaled US$2.80 between 1949 and 1971. 1959–1967 Iraq officially uncoupled the Iraqi Dinar from the pound sterling as a gesture of independence in 1959, but the Iraqi dinar remained at parity with the pound until the British unit of currency was again devalued in 1967. 1971 One Iraqi dinar remained equal to US$2.80 until December 1971, when major realignments of world currencies began. 1973 Upon the devaluation of the United States dollar in 1973, the Iraqi Dinar appreciated to US$3.39. 1980 It remained at this level until the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq War in 1980. 1982 In 1982 Iraq devalued the dinar by 5 percent, to a value equal to US$3.22, and sustained this official exchange rate without additional devaluation despite mounting debt. 1988 In early 1988, the official dinar-dollar exchange rate was still Iraqi dinar (ID)1 to US$3.22; however, with estimates of the nation’s inflation rate ranging from 25 percent to 50 percent per year in 1985 and 1986, the dinar’s real transaction value, or black market exchange rate, was far lower-only about half the 1986 official rate. 1986–2003 1986–2003 between .33 cents to 1.32 to a dollar. 2001 Oil-production: 2.452 million bbl/day (2001 est.); note — production was disrupted as a result of the March-April 2003 war (2001 est.) 2002 GDP: purchasing power parity — $58 billion (2002 est.) 2002 Exports–partners:US 40.9%, Canada 8.2%, France 8.2%, Jordan 7.5%, Netherlands 6.4%, Italy 5.4%, Morocco 4.7%, Spain 4.4% (2002) 2003 In october 2003, the official Dinar-dollar exchange rate was ID1 to US$0.00027. 2004–2005 August 2004 till 2005, the official dinar-dollar exchange rate is ID1 to US$0.00068. Population: 25,374,691 (July 2004 est.) 2006 As of Jan 1st 2006, the official Iraqi dinar-US dollar exchange rate is ID1 to US$$0.00067.
    3 points
  44. WOW, you have been here for over a year and have not figured out that rumors go in the rumors section and news goes in the news...
    3 points
  45. Lol Math? We're talking about a country taken over by the same elites that gave us the Federal Reserve and their amazing 'makes trillions out of nothing' mentality. They're in the process of destroying America and the Dollar,and rest assured they could care less what is 'right for Iraq'. To these international bankers it's more along the lines of 'whats good for my off shores account'. At this point trying to use Govt figures or the numbers off the books is laughable.
    3 points
  46. The Infamous De La Rue Machine Stop Relying on Your Certificate and/or a De La Rue Machine Scan for Authenticity of Your IQD Most holders of IQD know that they are printed by the De La Rue Corporation of Viables, Basingstoke, Hampshire, England with some of the most sophisticated equipment in the world while utilizing some of the most difficult to counterfeit features imaginable. It only makes sense that they would also produce a cash counting machine with verification/authentication features. We’ve all heard about how the De La Rue Machine, specifically the Brandt 8625, which is used to authenticate IQD by most vendors ... and when IQD are run through them you get a certificate telling you that your IQD is the real deal! When I started buying I didn’t get a certificate … nor did I fret since I was purchasing IQD from the largest purveyor of IQD in America at the time and because I understood that the certificate proffered is only as good as the people who write it and will be good only as long as they are in business (when they close their doors and you haven’t verified your IQD; if they are indeed counterfeit, you are stuck … no one to take to court and only yourself to blame).My plan was to learn the security features of the IQD which seemed more prudent than a certificate … and become as expert as possible rather than rely on someone else. We have a small group in SW Florida that helps folks purchase IQD by sharing banking fees and FedEx expenses. As our little group grew I taught all that bought IQD; insisting that they count the number of bills that they received to verify that they had indeed received what was due them and then one by one go through the steps of authenticating an Iraqi Dinar. After a few tries, most could carry on a conversation while going through the steps taking anywhere from 1.5 – 3 seconds per bill. Several weeks ago a friend who had purchased for himself and his friends called. He was worried because two bills appeared to have the same serial number. I told him that I was sure that with careful scrutiny that he would see a slight difference in the Arabic numbers but that if he would bring them over I would replace them with other notes. He agreed and arrived within minutes. I examined the notes and with my 55 year old eyes they did look very similar … I told him that non-familiar scripts often appear the same. I used a 10X diamond loupe and the differences were obvious immediately. I handed him the loupe and he instantly concurred. Regardless, I handed him two different notes to give his friend and explained that they were obviously sequential … at least within 9 digits of each other (still not knowing their numbering system). We later discovered that they were indeed sequential … the Eastern Arabic numbers for 2 and 3. He was grateful that I knew what it was and that I handled it quickly and succinctly. For me … I merely swapped two good bills for two other good bills. No big deal. This past weekend, this same friend called me and asked what I thought about buying a De La Rue machine. “That way, everyone could run their’s through the machine and have increased confidence in their purchase/investment/currency exchange/whatever.” I really didn’t see the need for one … however, I did understand that he or his friend were still a bit unnerved about the sequential bills ... in fact the only reason that I could see to buy one would be to help me accurately count bills for buyers and I told him that I had heard that they were very expensive. He told me that he had located some used units (the same ones used by all of the IQD vendors) and their price was not all that bad if I could find a couple of guys to go in with us. He sent me a link and I spent the weekend looking into it. What I found was eye opening to say the least! Briefly, I discovered that there are various types of counterfeit detection systems, including multi-currencies: * UV (Ultraviolet) * IR (Infra-Red) * EMG (Enhanced Magnetics) * MTD (Metal Thread) * PPD (Paper Properties Detection) for US$ * SMDS (Superior Magnetic Detection System) or €III detector and more. Mostly I discovered that these were for authentication of the most highly counterfeited currency on the planet, the USD. They don’t apply to IQD or hardly any other currency that you might be familiar with. To see exactly what was going on when a De La Rue 8625 processed bills, I called De La Rue (now Talaris) and asked for the most experienced rep that they had regarding all of their models and authentication. I had to wait for a call back from a different time zone but the wait was worth it because this guy knew all of the products new and old. When I quizzed him about IQD he told me that the only feature that it has that was identifiable by a currency counter is UV. (This is actually borne out in the video above, about 16 seconds into the clip, as he explains, “that the Saddam Dinar has a different UV signature than the New Iraqi Dinar”.) I told him that the UV feature is possibly the least impressive feature on the IQD (which is rated as the 4th most difficult to counterfeit) and that any concert/bar/dance hall patron had experienced a version of it when their hand/etc. was stamped with an ultraviolet ink via a rubber stamp which was only visible under a wood’s lamp/UV light/black light. Most people think it’s great because it seems like it “magically” appears from nowhere … when in reality using a rubber stamp of the same size and shape and applied to the correct location on a bill with ink of the approximate wave length is “child’s play”. When I asked him if doing the aforementioned on a piece of white paper cut to the same size as an IQD and placed in a stack of IQD, would be rejected as a counterfeit or whether it would pass as authentic he responded, “it’s possible” that it would be authenticated. I asked about other models at any price and I was told that when a machine had other detection systems that they had to be turned off! The only exception to this were two European systems with patent right infringement problems in America and costing about $45,000 (named N-Tegra and N-Vision) and designed for tellers for a buy/sell currency situation where the currencies were identified by authenticating software and stored in the systems vault (in and out) rather than involving the main vault. My guy didn’t know whether the authentication software even existed for IQD! Bottom line … IQD authentication is by the easiest to fake security feature …the postage stamp size UV feature on the back of the IQD! Not the raised ink. Not the water mark. Not the foil strip. Not the color changing ink. Not the metallic ink at the dove nor the backside of the foil strip. Not the paper. Not the webbing. Not positional placement of objects in relation to other objects on the bills. And certainly not a combination of any of these security features! To counterfeit the IQD you would not only have to be a master forger but a master paper maker. These two skills are not one in the same but are two separate skill sets. The fourth most difficult to counterfeit! Yet the currency counter authentication feature is not MTD (metal thread) AND UV … Nor is it just MTD ... it is just UV … UNBELIEVABLE!!! For the record, the serial numbers are written in Eastern Arabic. The numeral conversions can be discovered here: http://www.dinarprofits.com/iraqi_dinar_information/security_features/ My friend and I have since decided that we don’t need a De La Rue machine to authenticate anything! Counting machines can be purchased at Sam’s Club for less than a used De La Rue machine. I believe that the “intel” from various sites regarding banks requiring a De La Rue machine to "actually authenticate" IQD for RI/RV is at the least suspect … they may use it for convenience sake but a $5 hand held black light will do the same thing. Yes, I understand that processing hundreds of thousands of bills will preclude them from doing this ... that is why I said "actually authenticate" ... and they do need something to speed up the process or they would hold up our money forever ... and yes it is the only thing available to them. If I haven't already made my point it's just that the equipment be used ... isn't really up to the job of authenticating anything. As far as bank employees requiring training on the De La Rue machine … I have serious doubts. I mean 1) plug unit in 2) turn unit on 3) place stack of bills in tray 4) press start button … there … you’ve been trained. Didn’t get your training? Here’s the Operator’s Manual : www.welchsystems.com/DTP-DATA-8625-0302.pdf take a minute … okay, now you are trained! Please understand, I’m not taking a shot at Frank … I’m taking a shot at those who I believe lied to Frank! I don’t like it when other folks lie to the folks who help me on a regular basis. Further, I’m not taking a shot at vendors … as far as I can tell … short of individually teaching buyers how to authenticate IQD they’ve done what they can to protect themselves and buyers by utilizing the DLR 8625. In fact many have an authentication page showing the 25K note features on their website for this reason. And while I’m not happy with the De La Rue Corp … I’m not taking a shot at them either. What I’m really doing is shining a light on the inadequacy of the technology that is supposedly standing between us and counterfeiters. I support buying from legitimate IQD vendors with IRS/US Treasury licenses. The problem is that millions of IQD are sold on ebay, Craig’s List, and the like. I’m not saying that they are all counterfeit and I’m not saying that all vendors are solid. I’m saying that you had better know your “stuff” when buying from anyone! How much was supposedly “brought back” to the States by an acquaintance? How many times have you heard “I trust so-and-so”? When investing or exchanging your hard earned cash for IQD that just won’t cut it! I recommend learning these and the procedure that we go through is this: 1) Don’t forget that one of the simplest ways to identify an authentic IQD is to take the bill between your fingers (we recommend upper right and lower left corners with the numbers facing you that’s the front) and search for “texture” … a color copy will have none. Raised ink on a bill is a special ink and process that generally requires heat to activate (an extra step in the printing process that many counterfeiters will be unable to duplicate). 2) With it still between your fingers hold it up to the light and find the horse’s head watermark on the right of the bill (25K note) 3) Also search for the foil strip/thread usually about 40% from left edge 4) Tip the bill toward you (not flip) until it is flat and follow the foil strip from step #3 and you should see a metallic ink in small rectangles and even intervals down the backside 5) With the bill still tipped, move your eyes to the right side of the bill and find a silver dove (looks like a mustache) nearest to you which is a second metallic ink feature. 6) Straight down the bill from the dove, at the bottom of the bill is a webbed button … rock the bill back and forth slightly and verify the color changing ink feature 7) Place the backside of the bill under a black light/UV light and a small postage stamp area will glow in what looks to be a bush at about the upper right 1/3 margin. There are more features written in Eastern Arabic that are wasted on us but these 7 steps will give you the confidence that you are looking for. Educating yourself and placing yourself among the elite IQD holders is paramount in accomplishing your financial goals. And here’s a link with a partial list of the security features on the IQD if you don’t have one: http://www.iraqpapermoney.com/new/images/25000dinar.jpg I hope that this has been helpful to you. Peace Doc a.k.a. Doc31, Whatsupdoc31 (depending on what blog or forum you might be on)
    2 points
  47. Chuck Norris does not lick stamps, he just looks at them and they wet themselves.
    2 points
  48. oh great more of the same.. crappolla
    2 points


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