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IRREVOCABLE, NON-GRANTOR, COMPLEX, DISCRETIONARY, SPENDTHRIFT TRUST


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I am supposed to be working right now, but I feel like I need to get his post off of my mind and potentially help some people make some decisions. This is a long topic applying to a specific group. So if you have not heard of the following trust, you may not want to waste your time. Also, I am not taking time to edit or proof read this.

I was recently asked to give an opinion on an IRREVOCABLE, NON-GRANTOR, COMPLEX, DISCRETIONARY, SPENDTHRIFT TRUST and told about a guy who is selling these trust which are supposed to allow you to defer income forever and have bullet proof asset protection. Unfortunately I didn’t have time to complete the investigation without actually being hired to do it. However I felt compelled to address some comments to the issue. The short comment is to stay away. The long set of comments follows:

Here is what is being advertised:____________________________________________________

An IRREVOCABLE, NON-GRANTOR, COMPLEX, DISCRETIONARY, SPENDTHRIFT TRUST:

•Totally eliminates exposure to PERSONAL LIABILITY.

•Eliminates PROBATE and all associated expenses.

•Eliminates all INHERITANCE TAXES when properly constructed.

•When properly constructed the trust is MEDICARE/MEDICAID COMPLIANT.

•Eliminates all concerns about INCAPACITY AND GUARDIANSHIP.

•Protects land holdings from loss due to URBANIZATION.

•Eliminates CAPITAL GAINS TAX.

Through discretionary terms and conditions by the correct use of the law and the Internal Revenue Code, the trust can make available EXTRAORDINARY DIVIDENDS and Taxable STOCK DIVIDENDS without taxation.

___________________________________________________________________________

I would LOVE to have reviewed one of his trusts, but the only way to see one is to buy it. (I understand they are 5 or 6 thousand dollars.) So, I read what his “Think Tank” website had to say and listened to a recorded conference call and a live conference call with this gentleman, “Jim” who did not give his last name, would not give the name of his company, his phone number, or his address. He claimed he didn’t want to be overwhelmed with contacts. However, he was willing to give a non-company email address: hayseedpassion@gmail.com.

That was enough to turn on red flag alerts for me. The rest of my issues/concerns follow:

1) Big Sounding Name - The name of the trust has NOTHING to do with whether it is legal or whether it will work. You could take a standard revocable trust and call it the BULLETPROOF FOREIGN ASSET PROTECTION TRUST, but that would not change the fact that the language of the instrument was a basic, run of the mill, domestic, revocable living trust with no asset protection. What matters is the language of the trust which I have not seen.

2) His claims that the trust is “Legal” - Whether the trust is Legal has NOTHING to do with whether or not it will do what you say it will do. What matters is the language of the trust which I have not seen.

3) Opinion Letters – He claims to have opinion letters from an attorney and a CPA who used to work for the IRS. However, you don’t get to see them unless you have already paid. Seriously? Then what is the point of even having one. If you trust and stand behind your product and the opinion letter upholds what you profess, wouldn’t you WANT to show it to us to convince us to buy? I am left wondering if the opinion letters are worth the paper they are written on. They may just say "This trust is legal" or something else just as innocuous. That says nothing about whether the trust will do what it claims within the limits of the laws and regulations.

4) Copyright – He claims the trust is under copyright (or actually implies that). What is under copyright is the book he placed the trust in. It is his “expression” of the legal ideas of the trust. What he sells are completed trusts. Therefore, he is either committing the Unlicensed Practice of Law (UPL) by drafting trusts (which can be copyrighted) or his is simply selling a form to you that he fills in with information that you provide. Forms cannot be copyrighted.

5) Current - He says that his trust was drafted in 1999 and updated in 2002. That means it is not up to date with the current changes in the Uniform Trust Code. Changes in the UTC (which most states have adopted to some extent threaten the asset protections of domestic irrevocable trusts. There are some things which are done to limit the damage, but there is no way of knowing if the attorney that drafted this trust he will sell to you had the foresight to put those provisions in.

6) Will work in all 50 states – Well of course it will. However, it relies on IRC 643(a)(3) for its “deferment” of gains. (Fiduciary accounting calls it “accumulation” of gains which may have negative tax consequences in the future.) I’m not a CPA and I’d need to do more research to be sure, but I don’t have the time. Anyway, I have seen indications that local law affects how 643 is applied to trust income. Further, different states laws will work differently with the updates in the Uniform Trust Code. The trust may work differently in different states (depending on how it is set up).

7) In the Land of the Blind – There is a saying that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Thinking about what I have read and heard, I am reminded of that saying. In the Q&A part of his call, I heard people thanking Jim for the information had given them. I thought, “What are you talking about? All the guy has done is make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims and tell us about how his trust is supposed to work without being willing to show us ANYTHING to support his statements. They guy sounds like a “snake oil salesman.” (Sorry if that is harsh, but it really is what I thought.) The problem is that “Jim” actually does have some things right and is a pretty bright guy which makes him believable. The problem there is that you believe him when he is wrong too. He gets things wrong on several occasions and misleads people unintentionally. His call was the land of the blind. How are they to know?

8) Capitalizing your trust – Over and over again, “Jim” refers to capitalizing your trust and refers to it as a nontaxable event. However, absent being shown something in his trust or the IRC contrary to this (which he is unwilling to do), I have to disagree with him. When you place assets into a trust (he calls it capitalizing - the estate planning world calls it gifting), it is considered a gift to any beneficiaries of the trust and all of the gifting laws apply. Any gifts of Dinar post-RV could be enormous and would cause large gift tax consequences to the person making the gift. I see no way that this trust could get around that (regardless of what he claims). He tries to use the analogy of contributing capital to a business to prove his point. The difference is that whatever contribution you make to the business increases your own capital account in the business. The gifts to trust are for beneficiaries other than yourself. It is a gift. To believe otherwise, I'd need to see the language.

9) Using a separate “Settlor” – When the Tax Court reviews a case, they are looking at substance over form. “Jim’s” scheme uses someone else to be the Grantor of the trust and create it for your beneficiaries. However, they only fund it with $10 and hand it over. He calls this person the “Settlor.” When you gift assets to the trust, you become a Grantor of the trust (just like the Settlor). The trust will remain a non-grantor trust (which simply means it is not taxed back to the grantor), but depending on the powers that you as Trustee hold, being both grantor and Trustee could bring the trust assets into your estate for estate tax purposes and destroy one of the primary purposes of the trust. It could also threaten the asset protection of the trust.

10) His trust is special – He tells a story and implies that irrevocable trusts are not liked by attorneys or commonly seen by the IRS, I would have to disagree with him there. Irrevocable trusts are a common planning instrument that estate planning attorneys, tax attorneys, investment advisers, and the IRS are all very familiar with.

11) Scott on Trusts – One of his claims is that the trust is in compliance with Scott. He then makes the claim that Scott is the authority on trusts in our country. Well, he may have been an authority at one time, but the Courts don’t care. The written authority now is a combined work of attorneys around the nation called the “Restatement of Trusts.” Not too long ago, the Restatement of Trusts III came out. This is what prompted the changes in the Uniform Trust Code (UTC) that threatens asset protections of irrevocable trusts. No one cares that it is conformance with Scott on Trusts.

12) You could do better for the price – I have been told that he is charging $5,000 to $6,000 for these trusts. I believe that people in most areas of the country could go to a good estate planning attorney who would custom draft a trust to meet their needs. Also, If you see an attorney who drafts a trust for you for a particular purpose, you can also sue them if it fails to meet that purpose. “Jim” disclaims all liability and gives no guarantees. If your trust doesn't work you are still out the money.

13) Self Dealing – One of the big selling points of his trust is that as Trustee, you can buy a car or house and own it inside the trust and have the use of it while you are “managing it for the beneficiaries.” Using the trust so much for the advantage of the Trustee is self-dealing. (It is substance over form.) I'm not sure that whatever discretionary language you have in the trust will be enough to overcome the self-dealing problem. Perhaps the trust allows self-dealing (I’ve drafted some that do), however, we can’t know without seeing the language of the trust.

14) Passing assets on tax free – Of all the issues listed above, I can think of ways they just might be able to work out. However, this is one issue I can think of NO WAY around. He claims that once you are done “managing” the trust assets for the beneficiaries (which really means using them for yourself), that you can pass them on to new trusts owned by your beneficiaries without any tax consequence and avoid all of the deferred (accumulated) capital gains income being taxed on the transfer. I’d love to see some IRC section that allows this. I don’t know of one. I sent an email to a CPA this morning to see if he knows of any way to do it. I don’t.

Okay – I’ve spent WAY too much time on this already so I'll make my final comments. This trust may work just as you “Jim” says it does. In fact the structure is intriguing. Still, I can't feel comfortable without either seeing the trust itself or a detailed opinion letter from an attorney qualified to draft such an opinion (and I may need an opinion from a CPA who understands fiduciary accounting principles). I would also need to see that the trust was updated to deal with the new problems presented by the Uniform Trust Code.

Reviewing this trust reminds me of reading arguments of tax protesters. (I even wrote a paper on why the current income tax structure was unconstitutional.) There are some people out there who are claiming victory over the IRS using what they have been taught. However, we still see people going to jail. There may be people using this trust successfully, but it feels like a tax protester situation. Unless I see this thing properly vetted, I’d tell anyone who asks me to stay away from it. $5,000 or $6,000 is too much to throw away.

I have now spent over 6 hours on this thing (including typing it up) that I should have used to try to make some money for my family. (Still really struggling to get my practice started again now that wife is doing better. Have even gotten help from my church for bills.) I feel guilty for spending so much time on it and hope that it is helpful. However, PLEASE don’t expect me to do any more on this topic. I just can’t afford the time.

Having said that, I am a sucker for learning something new, so if you have an answer that is supported by law (not just what someone said), I’d LOVE you to post it here.

Sincerely,

Mark A. Galloway

Advanced Legal Planning, LLC

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Great job Mark. If the forum could read between the lines they would find an attorney who is educating himself regarding this investment and the consequential circumstances most dinar speculators will find themselves. You have shared a lot of good information which has not cost readers a dime. I plan on contacting you after the RV because I definitely do not want to have to educate or gauge the sincerity of my professional team of advisers. I have used and communicated with enough of them in my life to know who I definitely do not want to use. For example, I had a tax attorney complain to me the other day that she did not understand what the big fuss was among the electorate and what a "great deal US taxpayers are getting". She also at the same instant bemoaned that the law did not tax the appreciated value (unrealized) of our homes! We almost threw her out of our office, but then we remembered she had not billed us yet so we kept our mouths shut.

However, I pray you are able to participate in the investment and will just let my wife and I sit in on your own team of advisers (and of course share the expense). Would you consider a health retainer paid in Dinar today just to get you into the game? We would like to highly motivate your continuing education in our needs regarding the "sudden wealth" created by the RV.

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Great job Mark. If the forum could read between the lines they would find an attorney who is educating himself regarding this investment and the consequential circumstances most dinar speculators will find themselves. You have shared a lot of good information which has not cost readers a dime. I plan on contacting you after the RV because I definitely do not want to have to educate or gauge the sincerity of my professional team of advisers. I have used and communicated with enough of them in my life to know who I definitely do not want to use. For example, I had a tax attorney complain to me the other day that she did not understand what the big fuss was among the electorate and what a "great deal US taxpayers are getting". She also at the same instant bemoaned that the law did not tax the appreciated value (unrealized) of our homes! We almost threw her out of our office, but then we remembered she had not billed us yet so we kept our mouths shut.

However, I pray you are able to participate in the investment and will just let my wife and I sit in on your own team of advisers (and of course share the expense). Would you consider a health retainer paid in Dinar today just to get you into the game? We would like to highly motivate your continuing education in our needs regarding the "sudden wealth" created by the RV.

earjockey -- You are very kind. I would be grateful to do business with you. I am honestly touched by the trust you place in me without having ever met me. I am really flattered and grateful that you would think to offer. I know I am not a brilliant New York attorney in a large firm, but I always do the best I can to serve my clients' needs. (In fact, that has earned me some clients who left more experienced attorneys.)

Post-RV I would be happy to arrange a few days worth of meeting with experts that I would pay to bring in. (Post RV I would have the money because a beautiful gentleman with a hart of gold sent me Dinar as "pre-paid legal expenses".) Anyway, I'd love to have you and your wife there. We could really make a fun event of it I think. We should pick a spot. One set of people I want to meet with are in Tampa and the other set are in San Diego. I want the SanDiego guys to "quarterback" the team, so My vote is for SanDiego - I'll have the Tampa guys fly in there.

You mentioned sending Dinar as a "retainer" to motivate me to keep up the research. I probably should not discuss any "retainer" here because I don't want to fly foul of the spamming policy. However, you can find my email on my profile. As far as the research goes, I want to help as much as I can but I have to be careful how much time I put into this where I should be "pounding the pavement" looking for paying business. Still, I do love to help people and I am very interested in what is going on with the Dinar. I will do whatever I can.

Your "Tax Attorney" is obviously a spy from some socialist group. How in the world can she be a tax attorney when her very beliefs are against the interests of her clients. How can she represent them properly and be honest with herself? I am in shock that she actually thought you would not mind her saying those things in front of you.

Anyway, thank you very much for your kind words. You have my heartfelt appreciation.

Best of Blessings,

Mark

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I am supposed to be working right now, but I feel like I need to get his post off of my mind and potentially help some people make some decisions. This is a long topic applying to a specific group. So if you have not heard of the following trust, you may not want to waste your time. Also, I am not taking time to edit or proof read this.

Sincerely,

Mark A. Galloway

Advanced Legal Planning, LLC

___________

Thanks for the information. People have to be careful when dealing with people they don't really know. Especially over the internet.

Anyway, Mark, have you heard about the following, to good to be true, deal of a lifetime? Well, it made me think that if this is for real, then the dinar could be a scam. I pray that I'm wrong about the dinar but right about the following being a ponzi scheme. Could you tell me what your professional advice would be to people who are thinking about doing this? Thanks in advance. here it is. (forwarded e-mail to me from someone else trying to generate sales or whatever).

"The Dinar Global Pre-Launch is Now Quickly Approaching. We are pleased to announce our… Official Pre-Launch Date: November 15th, 2010 (11/15/10). Have Your Own Iraqi Dinar Business. Would you like to have your own Iraqi Dinar business? How about the opportunity to buy Dinar at wholesale prices, sponsor friends, family, co-workers, build a successful Iraqi Dinar business and make money? Your already telling friends about the Dinar so why not do it for yourself and make money. Sign Up Today! What To Expect

Start now to position yourself, family and friends for this groundbreaking, money making opportunity of a lifetime! We will continue to update you on our progress through our Bi-Weekly newsletter so be sure to look for it on the 1st and 15th of every month. Social Media You can now also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Myspace. We will provide you additional updates concerning the Iraqi Dinar and Dinar Global. We will also shortly have our full website completed along with our emails and toll free numbers. Dinar Global <info@dinarglobal.com>

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___________

Thanks for the information. People have to be careful when dealing with people they don't really know. Especially over the internet.

Anyway, Mark, have you heard about the following, to good to be true, deal of a lifetime? Well, it made me think that if this is for real, then the dinar could be a scam. I pray that I'm wrong about the dinar but right about the following being a ponzi scheme. Could you tell me what your professional advice would be to people who are thinking about doing this? Thanks in advance. here it is. (forwarded e-mail to me from someone else trying to generate sales or whatever).

"The Dinar Global Pre-Launch is Now Quickly Approaching. We are pleased to announce our… Official Pre-Launch Date: November 15th, 2010 (11/15/10). Have Your Own Iraqi Dinar Business. Would you like to have your own Iraqi Dinar business? How about the opportunity to buy Dinar at wholesale prices, sponsor friends, family, co-workers, build a successful Iraqi Dinar business and make money? Your already telling friends about the Dinar so why not do it for yourself and make money. Sign Up Today! What To Expect

Start now to position yourself, family and friends for this groundbreaking, money making opportunity of a lifetime! We will continue to update you on our progress through our Bi-Weekly newsletter so be sure to look for it on the 1st and 15th of every month. Social Media You can now also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Myspace. We will provide you additional updates concerning the Iraqi Dinar and Dinar Global. We will also shortly have our full website completed along with our emails and toll free numbers. Dinar Global <info@dinarglobal.com>

coolbeans -- First let me assure you that this "Dinar Thing" is not a scam. The company you mention just happens to be one in a long line of companies trying to take advantage of the Dinar gold rush mentality. Examples of this would be "simple" offshore planning strategies that are cheap (relatively speaking) and supertrusts sold by a hayseed. (This is my opinion. Hope that didn't step on too many toes.)

It's funny that you should bring this question to me. My "expertise" in this area comes not from being an attorney, but from investigating Multilevel Marketing, Direct Sales Marketing, etc.... In fact, my masters thesis was on MLM. Dinar Global is an MLM set up to deal in Dinar and the ISX.

It takes a certain mentality to be successful in MLM (I don't have it). You must be willing to sell people on their chances at success. I, personally, can not bring in someone (like yourself) who does not know the MLM world and tell you that you can be a great success because I know that most people fail due to personality, lack of training, lack of time. etc.... If I were to tell people they could succeed when I know they probably won't, I would lose my integrity. Having said that, I have been a member of several different MLMs for their products. In fact I have been a customer and "Marketing Executive" of Melaleuca for about 15 years, but I don't ever try to "sell" the opportunity to others. I just think they have some of the best products. You should only ever get into an MLM if you believe in the product they carry. If you believe in the product and can sell the product to people who will use it again and again, then you can be a success and still have integrity. We know that they deal in Dinar and the ISX. I assume you believe that Iraq will grow and progress or you wouldn't be in this forum. If you believe in the product, you must then analyze the company.

I have seen a lot of MLMs and even startups that fail after a couple years have better management bios and better information for the prospects than DinarGlobal. I have NEVER in my life seen an MLM that puts out so little information about what they do and how they do it. The CEO's "bio" consists of, "Robert is Dinar Globals visionary and strategist. He ensures the company has financial resources to meet its goals." What is that?!! It doesn't tell us anything about his management history or ability or even give us a story that we can identify with. This company (and its people) may make a little bit of money initially. However, in my "professional" opinion, they will fail within 18 months. I've seen it over and over again. While it might be worth the $50 it takes to get into it if you can get Dinar a little cheaper or have easier access to the ISX, I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER try to sell this "opportunity" to friends or family as a way to make money. If you do and then they work hard and then the company fails; the stigma of their failure will be hung around your neck and taint your relationship. It may not be in the forefront, but you will think, "I brought this disappointment to them." (I have seen this too.)

IF (and that is a big IF) I checked the company out ($50 to join) and found I liked using their product or service and felt safe with it, I might (with an abundance of caution) let someone know about it if they were already planning to invest anyway. However, that would be the extent of it. My integrity in relationships is too important to go any further.

Conclusion - (This is my personal opinion) If you are curious, talk to your friend who sent you the email. (He probably paid the $50 and joined. That is why he is trying to sell you on the opportunity.) That way you can check it out for free and see if it is something you want to use for yourself. DO NOT look at this as a business opportunity.

I have often thought about hiring someone with the appropriate mentality to do some Multi Level Marketing for me, but if I did . . . It would NEVER be with DinarGlobal. Too many red flags.

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Looks like another out of work attorney is trying to gather some new customers with scare tactics made famous with the present administration. He presents no facts that apply to our copyrighted trust, just innuendos. SHAME ON HIM.

His listed #11 REFERS TO “the Restatement of Trusts III”. His material is correct if a person is trying to REINSTATE A TRUST. Are you reinstating a trust? Has your trust expired and are you reinstating it? If so, he has the rules for that. If you want, I can send them to you as well.

It amazes me that he is trying to get hired by someone to investigate a subject he has little apparent knowledge of. OH WELL.

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Looks like another out of work attorney is trying to gather some new customers with scare tactics made famous with the present administration. He presents no facts that apply to our copyrighted trust, just innuendos. SHAME ON HIM.

His listed #11 REFERS TO “the Restatement of Trusts III”. His material is correct if a person is trying to REINSTATE A TRUST. Are you reinstating a trust? Has your trust expired and are you reinstating it? If so, he has the rules for that. If you want, I can send them to you as well.

It amazes me that he is trying to get hired by someone to investigate a subject he has little apparent knowledge of. OH WELL.

This poster is one of the people selling this Trust. I also read a post from her stating that "if you want to send me a fax...give me a heads up so I can turn the fax on" this wqas red flag for me. I never trust anyone right away on anything that has to do with "needing a check for certified funds" before you get your trust. A releative had also asked for some questions to be answered and the responses were most unprofessional. One resonse was " just write the check". The people selling this trust will gain more trust when they will divulge language specifics that are being asked for. Instead of posting a comment...she would post the "rules" in question. You can see the unprofessional underlying tone. i never trusted this trust and have even less faith in it after investigating further. this person also has a questionable personal history that should be checked out by anyone who considers doing business. i am suere i will get quite a response from this post.

Edited by nashdinar
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Looks like another out of work attorney is trying to gather some new customers with scare tactics made famous with the present administration. He presents no facts that apply to our copyrighted trust, just innuendos. SHAME ON HIM.

His listed #11 REFERS TO “the Restatement of Trusts III”. His material is correct if a person is trying to REINSTATE A TRUST. Are you reinstating a trust? Has your trust expired and are you reinstating it? If so, he has the rules for that. If you want, I can send them to you as well.

It amazes me that he is trying to get hired by someone to investigate a subject he has little apparent knowledge of. OH WELL.

nashdinar - thank you for your information. I would not normally respond to such an obvious personal attack, but there are some things I want to be sure that people don't misunderstand that lbernal said. I will try not to be argumentative.

You are correct that I have been mostly out of work. In fact I have plainly stated that on my profile. When my wife had medical problems, I closed down my law office and came home to care for my wife and children. However, I didn't post this to get work.

I have given a ton of free information on many topics in this forum. I am not trying to get hired to investigate this further. In fact, this investigation was in response to an email I received from someone who COULD NOT afford to hire me (even if I let him pay a very reduced rate of $100 US and 150,000 Dinar which would cover only one hour of my time at current rates). However, he was considering paying $5,000 for one of these trusts. I shutter to think what jeopardy he might have had to place his family in to come up with that money. Knowing this, I could not in good conscience just say nothing. Though he told me he could not afford to hire me to look into it, I couldn't let it go. Once I had completed my topic, I emailed him and told him to look at it. (In effect, I gave him the work for free anyway because I was concerned for him.)

You are also correct that I present "few" facts about the trust. Like I said in my post, I have not had the opportunity to review the trust or the opinion letters that are claimed to support it. I would love to give more facts. Do you want me to supply me a trust so that I can review it? Perhaps I could provide an opinion letter in support of it and completely refute all the concerns that I enumerate above. I could be your greatest salesman. Otherwise, I have listed some valid points that I would urge people to consider carefully and not just disregard because of personal attacks.

If you are involved with these trusts as "nashdinar" states above, your post actually supports a point I made originally. You speak like you know what you are talking about when you really don't. Then you mislead people who don't know better. Perhaps you are just repeating what someone else told you. However, I don't want people to be misled by your post to think that you really do know what you are talking about so they should ignore what I have said and "just send the check." In support of this statement, I offer the following:

Your comment about the Restatement of Trusts III having to do with reinstating a trust was incorrect. The Restatement of Trusts III is the common name for the treatise produced by the American Law Institute. It's complete title is, Restatement of the Law (Third) Trusts, Vol.1 & Vol. 2 and it deals with just about everything about trusts from language to accounting to political policy. It can be purchased from the American Law Institute at http://www.ali.org. I admit there are things out there I don't know and I could be wrong about this next statement, but I believe any lawyer who heard you say something refers to "reinstating" a trust would wonder what you are talking about. A trust can be "re-stated," which is redoing the language of a trust, but that only works for revocable living trusts. If a trust has expired, it terminates. If a trust has terminated for any reason, it can not be "reinstated." A new trust would have to be created.

What I think you are referring to is a way to restart the 20 year period for which domestic non-grantor trusts can accumulate income. (I'm guessing. I'm not really sure where you got "reinstating" from, but after listening to two of the sales calls I think that may be where you get "reinstating" a trust from.)

I do believe you have a valid trust document. I am interested in the structure of the trust and the claims made. However, I need to be honest with people. I have been asked by no fewer than three people about some of the claims you are making. I just can't feel comfortable suggesting to people that it is safe to spend $5,000 on your trust when there is not a single shred of support shown for your claims and there is so much in the law that contradicts them.

I really would be EXCITED to find a way to do what you are claiming. I just don't think there is one. I even asked around the list serve I belong to that has estate planning attorneys from around the nation. No one knows any way to do what you are claiming. I also sent a question to a CPA professor who teaches fiduciary accounting. I am still awaiting his reply. I really am looking for a way that the claims could be true. It would be a wonderful thing for the members of this forum.

I'll reiterate what I said in my original post, "if you have an answer that is supported by law (not just what someone said), I’d LOVE you to post it here."

Best of Blessings,

Mark

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MARK -

I TOO WOULD BE INTERESTED TO COME DOWN TO SAN DIEGO, WHEN YOU HAVE THESE SPECIALIST THERE. :rolleyes:

I'M MAYBE TWO HOURS AWAY FROM SAN DIEGO, SO I WOULDN'T MIND GOING OUT THERE. IT WOULD BE WELL WORTH IT. SO PLEASE KEEP ME IN THE LOOP.

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. :wave::hug:

DRAVMORRIS2 :twothumbs:

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earjockey -- You are very kind. I would be grateful to do business with you. I am honestly touched by the trust you place in me without having ever met me. I am really flattered and grateful that you would think to offer. I know I am not a brilliant New York attorney in a large firm, but I always do the best I can to serve my clients' needs. (In fact, that has earned me some clients who left more experienced attorneys.)

Post-RV I would be happy to arrange a few days worth of meeting with experts that I would pay to bring in. (Post RV I would have the money because a beautiful gentleman with a hart of gold sent me Dinar as "pre-paid legal expenses".) Anyway, I'd love to have you and your wife there. We could really make a fun event of it I think. We should pick a spot. One set of people I want to meet with are in Tampa and the other set are in San Diego. I want the SanDiego guys to "quarterback" the team, so My vote is for SanDiego - I'll have the Tampa guys fly in there.

You mentioned sending Dinar as a "retainer" to motivate me to keep up the research. I probably should not discuss any "retainer" here because I don't want to fly foul of the spamming policy. However, you can find my email on my profile. As far as the research goes, I want to help as much as I can but I have to be careful how much time I put into this where I should be "pounding the pavement" looking for paying business. Still, I do love to help people and I am very interested in what is going on with the Dinar. I will do whatever I can.

Your "Tax Attorney" is obviously a spy from some socialist group. How in the world can she be a tax attorney when her very beliefs are against the interests of her clients. How can she represent them properly and be honest with herself? I am in shock that she actually thought you would not mind her saying those things in front of you.

Anyway, thank you very much for your kind words. You have my heartfelt appreciation.

Best of Blessings,

Mark

I share this just to bring a thoughtful contribution to this forum regarding the serious planning that will be required. I would recommend that the VIP membership Adam offers be seriously considered if you do not have experience in complicated financial planning or business management. I would consider myself to be significantly experienced in matters of business and financial management yet I know that poorly handled "sudden wealth" could be one's undoing. I pray that this RV becomes the blessing it should be and not a plague on your lives. So take advantage of the professional service that Adam has apparently arranged for post-RV help. My understanding is his Post-RV offer ends with the RV and could leave you abandoned to generally substandard advise at best. The average cpa or general practice attorney is not educated or motivate enough to learn what they need to know to give the specialized advise needed, especially with something as unique as a non-Forex foreign currency RV investment. If you know enough to ask the correct leading questions you might have a chance. The first question to your advisers would be: Are you covered by some kind of E & O insurance? If you do not know what that is then sign-up for the VIP service.

Hi Mark: San Diego is just fine with me we currently live in the Northwest and have a couple of friends nearby who will also need some advice and have asked for my help to arrange for good legal/financial advice. Florida would also work because I need to include several family members from Orlando and Panama City. One of our Orlando relatives could rely on my wife and I to represent her needs and would not need to necessarily be present. Our Panama City relative has already told me he is ready to travel to where ever a consult is arranged. I kind of like your location and would not mind having a larger meeting in the Ozarks, flying into Kansas City is preferred against messing with California traffic. We have a daughter who owns a financial services office and lives just south of Johnson City Tennessee and she has a good friend who is also a dinar investor who would also like to come. So Eastern Tennessee would also be a good location with an office and conference room with supporting facilities. We have a financial services office here in Washington with plenty of space and office facilities with significant contacts including a good CPA (Masters in Taxation). I would like to not only plan but actually initiate the implementation of our plans. Maybe you, my wife and I could meet with your San Diego contact and share the general circumstances and expressed needs of each member of our group. We could then arrange a follow-up meeting. We would prefer to initially keep our personal plans in focus since ours will be by far the most complicated case. We really need an attorney with offshore legal/tax expertise and I just happen to have a good lead in the San Diego area for this.

This is what we generally have in mind for advisers: personal general counsel (tax-estate planning), offshore tax/legal-structure attorney, CPA (masters in taxation), and personal banker. My wife is an insurance specialist (CPCU, CLU), and a registered bank representative and I have a fairly sophisticated understanding of United States based investment. I also teach business and health-care management at a local college. So as a group we should be able to hammer out a good plan. If we did the Ozark thing after an initial meeting with the San Diego folks our families could then join us. So Washington, Florida, Tennessee, California or Southern Missouri would work, we have family and office space available in all. What do you think?

In Yeshua's service.

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I share this just to bring a thoughtful contribution to this forum regarding the serious planning that will be required. I would recommend that the VIP membership Adam offers be seriously considered if you do not have experience in complicated financial planning or business management. I would consider myself to be significantly experienced in matters of business and financial management yet I know that poorly handled "sudden wealth" could be one's undoing. I pray that this RV becomes the blessing it should be and not a plague on your lives. So take advantage of the professional service that Adam has apparently arranged for post-RV help. My understanding is his Post-RV offer ends with the RV and could leave you abandoned to generally substandard advise at best. The average cpa or general practice attorney is not educated or motivate enough to learn what they need to know to give the specialized advise needed, especially with something as unique as a non-Forex foreign currency RV investment. If you know enough to ask the correct leading questions you might have a chance. The first question to your advisers would be: Are you covered by some kind of E & O insurance? If you do not know what that is then sign-up for the VIP service.

Hi Mark: San Diego is just fine with me we currently live in the Northwest and have a couple of friends nearby who will also need some advice and have asked for my help to arrange for good legal/financial advice. Florida would also work because I need to include several family members from Orlando and Panama City. One of our Orlando relatives could rely on my wife and I to represent her needs and would not need to necessarily be present. Our Panama City relative has already told me he is ready to travel to where ever a consult is arranged. I kind of like your location and would not mind having a larger meeting in the Ozarks, flying into Kansas City is preferred against messing with California traffic. We have a daughter who owns a financial services office and lives just south of Johnson City Tennessee and she has a good friend who is also a dinar investor who would also like to come. So Eastern Tennessee would also be a good location with an office and conference room with supporting facilities. We have a financial services office here in Washington with plenty of space and office facilities with significant contacts including a good CPA (Masters in Taxation). I would like to not only plan but actually initiate the implementation of our plans. Maybe you, my wife and I could meet with your San Diego contact and share the general circumstances and expressed needs of each member of our group. We could then arrange a follow-up meeting. We would prefer to initially keep our personal plans in focus since ours will be by far the most complicated case. We really need an attorney with offshore legal/tax expertise and I just happen to have a good lead in the San Diego area for this.

This is what we generally have in mind for advisers: personal general counsel (tax-estate planning), offshore tax/legal-structure attorney, CPA (masters in taxation), and personal banker. My wife is an insurance specialist (CPCU, CLU), and a registered bank representative and I have a fairly sophisticated understanding of United States based investment. I also teach business and health-care management at a local college. So as a group we should be able to hammer out a good plan. If we did the Ozark thing after an initial meeting with the San Diego folks our families could then join us. So Washington, Florida, Tennessee, California or Southern Missouri would work, we have family and office space available in all. What do you think?

In Yeshua's service.

Good thoughts in your post.

The firm in San Diego has very advanced planning experience. That is why I'd want them to quarterback. The group from Tampa has been doing very advanced (and above board) off shore planning for about 25 years they also run a home office to support people with as low as $3 million in assets. They can offer some very value added services. I want to be able to support as many people as we can who want really top notch help. In the morning, I am going to give Joe or Steve (from San Diego firm) a call and see what their thoughts are.

Edited by ExecConsult
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Good thoughts in your post.

The firm in San Diego has very advanced planning experience. That is why I'd want them to quarterback. The group from Tampa has been doing very advanced (and above board) off shore planning for about 25 years they also run a home office to support people with as low as $3 million in assets. They can offer some very value added services. I want to be able to support as many people as we can who want really top notch help. In the morning, I am going to give Joe or Steve (from San Diego firm) a call and see what their thoughts are.

Hi Mark,

I live close to Tampa & would be very interested in talking to the group in Tampa. Can you tell me how to contact them or how I can get their contact information?

Thanks!!

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Good thoughts in your post.

The firm in San Diego has very advanced planning experience. That is why I'd want them to quarterback. The group from Tampa has been doing very advanced (and above board) off shore planning for about 25 years they also run a home office to support people with as low as $3 million in assets. They can offer some very value added services. I want to be able to support as many people as we can who want really top notch help. In the morning, I am going to give Joe or Steve (from San Diego firm) a call and see what their thoughts are.

I will email your practice with my contact information. Thanks again.

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MARK -

I TOO WOULD BE INTERESTED TO COME DOWN TO SAN DIEGO, WHEN YOU HAVE THESE SPECIALIST THERE. :rolleyes:

I'M MAYBE TWO HOURS AWAY FROM SAN DIEGO, SO I WOULDN'T MIND GOING OUT THERE. IT WOULD BE WELL WORTH IT. SO PLEASE KEEP ME IN THE LOOP.

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. :wave::hug:

DRAVMORRIS2 :twothumbs:

I have spoken with San Diego law firm - they are going to talk amongst partners to decide how they want to handle and they will get back to me.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I live close to Tampa & would be very interested in talking to the group in Tampa. Can you tell me how to contact them or how I can get their contact information?

Thanks!!

Group in Tampa is not a firm - they are a "Family Office Group." While they have a very competent attorney on staff (actually is the VP), they will have to use other attorneys to get everything done. They are good at developing plans dealing with off-shore strategies (and domestic strategies as well). Once they design plan, they will hire attorney to draft documents needed. They are Fortress Family Office Group and can be found here:

http://www.fortressfamilyofficegroup.com/family-office

One favor - please let them know I (Mark Galloway - attorney from Kansas) sent you so they will give me credit for the referral. Not a requirement by any stretch of the imagination, but would be a nice favor.

Best of Blessings,

Mark

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I am supposed to be working right now, but I feel like I need to get his post off of my mind and potentially help some people make some decisions. This is a long topic applying to a specific group. So if you have not heard of the following trust, you may not want to waste your time. Also, I am not taking time to edit or proof read this.

I was recently asked to give an opinion on an IRREVOCABLE, NON-GRANTOR, COMPLEX, DISCRETIONARY, SPENDTHRIFT TRUST and told about a guy who is selling these trust which are supposed to allow you to defer income forever and have bullet proof asset protection. Unfortunately I didn’t have time to complete the investigation without actually being hired to do it. However I felt compelled to address some comments to the issue. The short comment is to stay away. The long set of comments follows:

Here is what is being advertised:____________________________________________________

An IRREVOCABLE, NON-GRANTOR, COMPLEX, DISCRETIONARY, SPENDTHRIFT TRUST:

•Totally eliminates exposure to PERSONAL LIABILITY.

•Eliminates PROBATE and all associated expenses.

•Eliminates all INHERITANCE TAXES when properly constructed.

•When properly constructed the trust is MEDICARE/MEDICAID COMPLIANT.

•Eliminates all concerns about INCAPACITY AND GUARDIANSHIP.

•Protects land holdings from loss due to URBANIZATION.

•Eliminates CAPITAL GAINS TAX.

Through discretionary terms and conditions by the correct use of the law and the Internal Revenue Code, the trust can make available EXTRAORDINARY DIVIDENDS and Taxable STOCK DIVIDENDS without taxation.

___________________________________________________________________________

I would LOVE to have reviewed one of his trusts, but the only way to see one is to buy it. (I understand they are 5 or 6 thousand dollars.) So, I read what his “Think Tank” website had to say and listened to a recorded conference call and a live conference call with this gentleman, “Jim” who did not give his last name, would not give the name of his company, his phone number, or his address. He claimed he didn’t want to be overwhelmed with contacts. However, he was willing to give a non-company email address: hayseedpassion@gmail.com.

That was enough to turn on red flag alerts for me. The rest of my issues/concerns follow:

1) Big Sounding Name - The name of the trust has NOTHING to do with whether it is legal or whether it will work. You could take a standard revocable trust and call it the BULLETPROOF FOREIGN ASSET PROTECTION TRUST, but that would not change the fact that the language of the instrument was a basic, run of the mill, domestic, revocable living trust with no asset protection. What matters is the language of the trust which I have not seen.

2) His claims that the trust is “Legal” - Whether the trust is Legal has NOTHING to do with whether or not it will do what you say it will do. What matters is the language of the trust which I have not seen.

3) Opinion Letters – He claims to have opinion letters from an attorney and a CPA who used to work for the IRS. However, you don’t get to see them unless you have already paid. Seriously? Then what is the point of even having one. If you trust and stand behind your product and the opinion letter upholds what you profess, wouldn’t you WANT to show it to us to convince us to buy? I am left wondering if the opinion letters are worth the paper they are written on. They may just say "This trust is legal" or something else just as innocuous. That says nothing about whether the trust will do what it claims within the limits of the laws and regulations.

4) Copyright – He claims the trust is under copyright (or actually implies that). What is under copyright is the book he placed the trust in. It is his “expression” of the legal ideas of the trust. What he sells are completed trusts. Therefore, he is either committing the Unlicensed Practice of Law (UPL) by drafting trusts (which can be copyrighted) or his is simply selling a form to you that he fills in with information that you provide. Forms cannot be copyrighted.

5) Current - He says that his trust was drafted in 1999 and updated in 2002. That means it is not up to date with the current changes in the Uniform Trust Code. Changes in the UTC (which most states hav e adopted to some extent threaten the asset protections of domestic irrevocable trusts. There are some things which are done to limit the damage, but there is no way of knowing if the attorney that drafted this trust he will sell to you had the foresight to put those provisions in.

6) Will work in all 50 states – Well of course it will. However, it relies on IRC 643(a)(3) for its “deferment” of gains. (Fiduciary accounting calls it “accumulation” of gains which may have negative tax consequences in the future.) I’m not a CPA and I’d need to do more research to be sure, but I don’t have the time. Anyway, I have seen indications that local law affects how 643 is applied to trust income. Further, different states laws will work differently with the updates in the Uniform Trust Code. The trust may work differently in different states (depending on how it is set up).

7) In the Land of the Blind – There is a saying that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Thinking about what I have read and heard, I am reminded of that saying. In the Q&A part of his call, I heard people thanking Jim for the information had given them. I thought, “What are you talking about? All the guy has done is make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims and tell us about how his trust is supposed to work without being willing to show us ANYTHING to support his statements. They guy sounds like a “snake oil salesman.” (Sorry if that is harsh, but it really is what I thought.) The problem is that “Jim” actually does have some things right and is a pretty bright guy which makes him believable. The problem there is that you believe him when he is wrong too. He gets things wrong on several occasions and misleads people unintentionally. His call was the land of the blind. How are they to know?

8) Capitalizing your trust – Over and over again, “Jim” refers to capitalizing your trust and refers to it as a nontaxable event. However, absent being shown something in his trust or the IRC contrary to this (which he is unwilling to do), I have to disagree with him. When you place assets into a trust (he calls it capitalizing - the estate planning world calls it gifting), it is considered a gift to any beneficiaries of the trust and all of the gifting laws apply. Any gifts of Dinar post-RV could be enormous and would cause large gift tax consequences to the person making the gift. I see no way that this trust could get around that (regardless of what he claims). He tries to use the analogy of contributing capital to a business to prove his point. The difference is that whatever contribution you make to the business increases your own capital account in the business. The gifts to trust are for beneficiaries other than yourself. It is a gift. To believe otherwise, I'd need to see the language.

9) Using a separate “Settlor” – When the Tax Court reviews a case, they are looking at substance over form. “Jim’s” scheme uses someone else to be the Grantor of the trust and create it for your beneficiaries. However, they only fund it with $10 and hand it over. He calls this person the “Settlor.” When you gift assets to the trust, you become a Grantor of the trust (just like the Settlor). The trust will remain a non-grantor trust (which simply means it is not taxed back to the grantor), but depending on the powers that you as Trustee hold, being both grantor and Trustee could bring the trust assets into your estate for estate tax purposes and destroy one of the primary purposes of the trust. It could also threaten the asset protection of the trust.

10) His trust is special – He tells a story and implies that irrevocable trusts are not liked by attorneys or commonly seen by the IRS, I would have to disagree with him there. Irrevocable trusts are a common planning instrument that estate planning attorneys, tax attorneys, investment advisers, and the IRS are all very familiar with.

11) Scott on Trusts – One of his claims is that the trust is in compliance with Scott. He then makes the claim that Scott is the authority on trusts in our country. Well, he may have been an authority at one time, but the Courts don’t care. The written authority now is a combined work of attorneys around the nation called the “Restatement of Trusts.” Not too long ago, the Restatement of Trusts III came out. This is what prompted the changes in the Uniform Trust Code (UTC) that threatens asset protections of irrevocable trusts. No one cares that it is conformance with Scott on Trusts.

12) You could do better for the price – I have been told that he is charging $5,000 to $6,000 for these trusts. I believe that people in most areas of the country could go to a good estate planning attorney who would custom draft a trust to meet their needs. Also, If you see an attorney who drafts a trust for you for a particular purpose, you can also sue them if it fails to meet that purpose. “Jim” disclaims all liability and gives no guarantees. If your trust doesn't work you are still out the money.

13) Self Dealing – One of the big selling points of his trust is that as Trustee, you can buy a car or house and own it inside the trust and have the use of it while you are “managing it for the beneficiaries.” Using the trust so much for the advantage of the Trustee is self-dealing. (It is substance over form.) I'm not sure that whatever discretionary language you have in the trust will be enough to overcome the self-dealing problem. Perhaps the trust allows self-dealing (I’ve drafted some that do), however, we can’t know without seeing the language of the trust.

14) Passing assets on tax free – Of all the issues listed above, I can think of ways they just might be able to work out. However, this is one issue I can think of NO WAY around. He claims that once you are done “managing” the trust assets for the beneficiaries (which really means using them for yourself), that you can pass them on to new trusts owned by your beneficiaries without any tax consequence and avoid all of the deferred (accumulated) capital gains income being taxed on the transfer. I’d love to see some IRC section that allows this. I don’t know of one. I sent an email to a CPA this morning to see if he knows of any way to do it. I don’t.

Okay – I’ve spent WAY too much time on this already so I'll make my final comments. This trust may work just as you “Jim” says it does. In fact the structure is intriguing. Still, I can't feel comfortable without either seeing the trust itself or a detailed opinion letter from an attorney qualified to draft such an opinion (and I may need an opinion from a CPA who understands fiduciary accounting principles). I would also need to see that the trust was updated to deal with the new problems presented by the Uniform Trust Code.

Reviewing this trust reminds me of reading arguments of tax protesters. (I even wrote a paper on why the current income tax structure was unconstitutional.) There are some people out there who are claiming victory over the IRS using what they have been taught. However, we still see people going to jail. There may be people using this trust successfully, but it feels like a tax protester situation. Unless I see this thing properly vetted, I’d tell anyone who asks me to stay away from it. $5,000 or $6,000 is too much to throw away.

I have now spent over 6 hours on this thing (including typing it up) that I should have used to try to make some money for my family. (Still really struggling to get my practice started again now that wife is doing better. Have even gotten help from my church for bills.) I feel guilty for spending so much time on it and hope that it is helpful. However, PLEASE don’t expect me to do any more on this topic. I just can’t afford the time.

Having said that, I am a sucker for learning something new, so if you have an answer that is supported by law (not just what someone said), I’d LOVE you to post it here.

Sincerely,

Mark A. Gallowayv

Advanced Legal Planning, LLC

WOW!! Thanks for the information & the WARNING!!! It hasn't fallen on deaf ears!! GO RV 2010!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Be careful with who you go through to setup your trust or take tax advice from. Be sure they are qualified in the area of law that they are helping you in. I have heard a few CCs on trusts and some of the experts seem to be avoiding or not directly answering some detailed questions.

If you feel that you want to verify their qualifications or want to find other people to discuss anything from trust to tax law (and everything in between) a good website is http://www.martindale.com/. At this website you can find certified lawyers in your area.

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