Justin L Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 So if this referendum is passed, the “soon” to be rv will be pushed back correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yota691 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, yota691 said: Deputy holds al-Maliki responsibility for the secession of Kurdistan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielchu Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, Justin L said: So if this referendum is passed, the “soon” to be rv will be pushed back correct? Way back is correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yota691 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 minute ago, danielchu said: Way back is correct! Why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcfrag Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 25 minutes ago, yota691 said: I do....Ha ha...and GM DV They better get to it before all heelll breaks loose. Everyone has already choose sides and other Kurds are already telling Iraqi Kurds they will help them! "Rojava: We help the Kurdistan Region if attacked Hadiye Yusuf, the co-chair of the mainly Kurdish founding council in Northern Syria or Rojava, has said that the Simalke border crossing with the Kurdistan Region and other such crosses will remain open. She said on Sunday the Kurdistan Region can depend on Rojava if it was attacked or a blockade imposed." What I see with all the tensions quickly elevating is a snowball forming on a hillside. Nutty Barzani poking a hornets nest with a stick trying to fix it! Barzani says it's no big deal, but if it isn't, then why is he unwilling to stop it.... he is determined, and so is everyone else involved in this game of Russian Roulette.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin L Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, danielchu said: Way back is correct! What are the odds of the Kurds getting their independence? I see lots of people saying it won’t happen or this is all bs to distract us from the RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, jcfrag said: They better get to it before all heelll breaks loose. Everyone has already choose sides and other Kurds are already telling Iraqi Kurds they will help them! "Rojava: We help the Kurdistan Region if attacked Hadiye Yusuf, the co-chair of the mainly Kurdish founding council in Northern Syria or Rojava, has said that the Simalke border crossing with the Kurdistan Region and other such crosses will remain open. She said on Sunday the Kurdistan Region can depend on Rojava if it was attacked or a blockade imposed." What I see with all the tensions quickly elevating is a snowball forming on a hillside. Nutty Barzani poking a hornets nest with a stick trying to fix it! Barzani says it's no big deal, but if it isn't, then why is he unwilling to stop it.... he is determined, and so is everyone else involved in this game of Russian Roulette.... 1st, HCL and National Oil company law. 2nd, other action.....if they do this, many obstacle will gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcfrag Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 28 minutes ago, yota691 said: Nobody would argue that one. Maliki should have already had all of his assets frozen till he was tried for treason. And then there is Iran that is freaking out also over this whole episode. They are just as guilty as Maliki as they backed the little nutcase, even guided him on how to run Iraq! I hope they are sweating bullets over this mess, they deserve it! 😡 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcfrag Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Spider said: 1st, HCL and National Oil company law. 2nd, other action.....if they do this, many obstacle will gone. Well right now 1st is to determine the outcome of the vote, before anything else. That is Barzanis bargaining chip, apparently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Dragon Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 53 minutes ago, yota691 said: I do....Ha ha...and GM DV Yota, I love your optimism, can you elaborate. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, jcfrag said: Well right now 1st is to determine the outcome of the vote, before anything else. That is Barzanis bargaining chip, apparently... No....I mean Baghdad version of HCL... If they want to take legal action to KRG, they must have functional law 1st. If they want to sway the vote, then only Article 140 compliant of HCL.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcfrag Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Spider said: No....I mean Baghdad version of HCL... If they want to take legal action to KRG, they must have functional law 1st. If they want to sway the vote, then only Article 140 compliant of HCL.... Abadi has already threatened a law suit against the Kurds for their lack of attention to the Agreement. They have been shipping all of their oil, as well as the article 140 territories oil through Turkey since 2013. I find it entertaining that Turkey is now freaking out too! They weren't trying to help a neighbor, but trying to make some chump change off of the deal. Now their good neighbor policy has blown up in their face too! Serves them right also!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGlobe7 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 ughhh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcfrag Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I just wish we could move on to the outcome of the vote, but they have dug themselves such a nice grave. Any negotiations at this point are going to be strained at best. Abadi is enraged at this point at their stubbornness/arrogance! If they were to become independent, Iran would own their numb butts so fast, Barzanis head would be spinning. 😳 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonangler Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, SnowGlobe7 said: ughhh Yup B/A 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Dragon Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I remember a longtime ago, Adam said things would get very confused looking and the situation would be messy. These aren't direct quotes. But that then the RV would happen. Looks pretty messy So...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGlobe7 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 JCFrag..you are so right...I know the Kurds have been wronged in the past...but I feel Abadi is trying his best to be fair...they just do not seem to want to let go of the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoD Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 35 minutes ago, Justin L said: So if this referendum is passed, the “soon” to be rv will be pushed back correct? Not according to the articles from the IMF and world bank. This referendum won't have any bearing on the Iraqi economy. This is could be exactly what Abadi needs to help drain the swamp. I have always said the corruption in Kurdistan is as bad as in Baghdad. Here's the way I think all of this will go down. Abadi will replace all government Kurdish officials with his own people, starting with the president (Masum) so no Kurds will have a seat at the table so to speak. Then will have the government control all border crossing and its air space. All pipe lines out of Kurdistan will be shut down. Abadi will demand no country trade with Erbil an basically put sanctions on the Kurdistan government. What his goal will be is to actually starve the Barzani family mafia into submission. There will come a point in time when the people of Kurdistan will have enough an ask to rejoin the Iraq government. At this time Abadi will make Kurdistan just like Basra and Mosul, nothing more nothing less. Them going to the federal courts lrast week an then voting to make the referendum illegal makes everything Abadi has planned all nice an legal. The world doesn't have to wait 72 hours for the results of this vote, when the Barzani mafia is controlling the polls you already know the outcome before the polls close. Anyway thats the way I see the future of Kurdistan going down. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigergorzow Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Sadr-led uprising against government can prevent Kurdistan secession September 25 2017 02:15 PM Sadr and Barzani Although voting in Kurdistan Region’s independence referendum started on Monday, a glimmer of hope has appeared in the horizon. Kurdistan secession may not occur if Sadrist Movement leader Muqtada al-Sadr interfered. As al-Sadr is spearheading political reform in Iraq, he can also play a pivotal role in maintaining the country’s unity. Sources told The Baghdad Post that senior Iraqi leaders have sent urgent message to Sadr to rapidly interfere and try to put an end to Baghdad-Erbil crisis and prevent Kurdistan secession within the next 24 hours to preserve Iraq’s unity and territorial integrity. However, the interference will not be in the form of dialogue or talks held with government officials. In leaks, sources said that the message sent to Sadr urged him to mobilize the Iraqi people and take to the streets to topple the corrupt Green Zone government in Baghdad. The central government was behind many crises Iraq has faced recently that undermined the country at the security, economic and political levels, they noted. They further stated that Baghdad also bought the free will of corrupt Shiites. Overthrowing the Green Zone government can entirely solve Kurdistan Region’s problem, they added. The Green Zone, originally set up to protect US occupation forces from suicide bombings, has been kept in place by successor Iraqi authorities for security reasons. Attempts of mediation from Baghdad and other neighboring countries to force Erbil back down on its plan to hold an independence referendum have failed. Kurdistan Region does not trust the federal government anymore after it had denied Kurds their constitutional rights and cut the region’s share in the federal budget. One of the reasons that forced Kurdistan to consider holding a referendum on independence is that the region’s politicians no longer trust this government. Yet, Sadr’s reform project is respected by all components and factions in Iraq. In their message to Sadr, senior Iraqi politicians said: “We count on Muqtada al-Sadr to change the government in Baghdad fist before inviting Kurds to participate in a dialogue and round-table discussions.” “If he succeeded in changing Baghdad government, Kurds would cooperate and participate in the dialogue. We count on Sadr for saving Iraq from corrupt officials, who previously broke promises they made, betrayed Kurdistan Region and all components of the Iraqi people, gave in to terrorism and crushed aspirations for a secure and stable Iraq.” In March 2016, the powerful Iraqi Shiite leader entered Baghdad’s Green Zone, the heavily-fortified center of the capital housing government buildings and embassies, to keep up pressure on the government to enact reforms. At the time, thousands of Sadr’s supporters began a sit-in at the district’s gates and continued to camp out despite heavy rains, but Sadr took the protest forward by entering the zone itself. Back then, Sadr wanted by this move to urge Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi to proceed with a plan to replace current ministers with unaffiliated technocrats in a bid to tackle systemic political patronage that has abetted graft. According to observers, Sadr can solve Baghdad-Erbil crisis even after voting in the independence referendum had begun. He is a prominent Shiite leader and champion of reform, who is trusted by all Iraqis, including Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, the noted. If Sadr led the revolution to overthrow the federal government in Baghdad, Kurds can take part in a dialogue, which in turn can solve the secession dilemma, they concluded. http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/17394/Sadr-led-uprising-against-government-can-prevent-Kurdistan-secession 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wciappetta Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 40 minutes ago, jcfrag said: They better get to it before all heelll breaks loose. Everyone has already choose sides and other Kurds are already telling Iraqi Kurds they will help them! "Rojava: We help the Kurdistan Region if attacked Hadiye Yusuf, the co-chair of the mainly Kurdish founding council in Northern Syria or Rojava, has said that the Simalke border crossing with the Kurdistan Region and other such crosses will remain open. She said on Sunday the Kurdistan Region can depend on Rojava if it was attacked or a blockade imposed." What I see with all the tensions quickly elevating is a snowball forming on a hillside. Nutty Barzani poking a hornets nest with a stick trying to fix it! Barzani says it's no big deal, but if it isn't, then why is he unwilling to stop it.... he is determined, and so is everyone else involved in this game of Russian Roulette.... The international and regional entities have already said, its a non-starter...the Kurds would collapse economically in a month, US, Turkey, Iran, UN etc everyone is against it and you can bet that if Iraq suddenly recognized Israel's right to exist, they too would sing the same tune. Kurds are land locked the border crossings are closed... Really this won't amount to much, more like a political ploy that is backfiring on Barzani. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigergorzow Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Turkey closes Khabour crossing with Iraq as Kurdistan referendum begins September 25 2017 09:45 AM Breaking Turkey has closed Khabour border crossing with northern Iraq as Iraqi Kurds are flocing Monday to polling stations in a historic independence referendum, Turkish media reported. Ankara strongly opposes Kurdistan region's referendum on indpendence for fear of similar moves at home. Earlier this week, press reports said Turkish army was high alert on Kurdish borders. http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/17389/Turkey-closes-Khabour-crossing-with-Iraq-as-Kurdistan-referendum-begins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigergorzow Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Markets in Sulaymaniyah crowded over fear of economic embargo September 25 2017 05:01 PM Markets in Sulaymaniyah crowded over fear of economic embargo Sulaymaniyah province is witnessing an unprecedented demand for food, oil and beverage while long queues of cars are waiting at gas stations over fear of closing the border, a source said on Monday. In an interview with The Baghdad Post, the source said that the people in the region had flocked heavily towards the gas stations after hearing of closing of border crossing as a vote on Kurdistan independence referendum is ongoing. This led to a severe traffic crisis at the roads leading to fuel stations, the source further said. He added that people are buying huge quantities of food over fear of running out of markets in case the neighboring countries will impose an economic embargo on Kurdistan region. On Monday, 5.2 million Kurdish voters are expected to give a comfortable YES to the region's independence referendum from Iraq. The referendum comes amid regional and international pressures. http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/17403/Markets-in-Sulaymaniyah-crowded-over-fear-of-economic-embargo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigergorzow Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Erbil mosques use loud speakers to promote for referendum September 25 2017 03:27 PM a file photo of a Kurdistan mosque Mosques in Erbil have used loud speakers to urge Kurdish people to effectively participate in Monday's referendum on the Kurdistan Region independence from Iraq. Kurdish voters flocked to polling stations in Kurdistan and disputed areas, shrugging off regional and international threats. Polling stations opened Mondat at 8:00 A.M. and is set to close at 6:00 PM. About 5.2 million voters are expected to give a comfortable yes to the establishment of an independent Kurdistan. The final result will be declared within 72 hours. http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/17397/Erbil-mosques-use-loud-speakers-to-promote-for-referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigergorzow Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Kurdistan flags to remain side by side despite referendum - official September 25 2017 04:15 PM Kurdish women casting their ballot at a polling station Kurdistan region's Prime Minister Nechervan Barzani said on Monday that Iraqi and Kurdish flags would remain side by side above governmental buildings. Speaking at a press conference in Erbil on Monday, Barzani said that Kurdistan seeks dialogue with Baghdad away from threats. He added that the flag of the federal government and that of Kurdistan will remain as they are, asserting there was no plans to remove the Iraqi flag. Kurdish voters flocked Monday to polling stations in Kurdistan and disputed areas to vote on the region's independence referendum. Baghdad central government strongly opposes the move. Regional countries including Iran and Turkey also reject the referendum. But Kurdistan president Massoud Barzani reassured Baghdad the referendum was not to determine borders or impose a fait accompli on the region, indicating that it would be a first step to express the Kurdish people's opinion on self-determination. http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/17400/Kurdistan-flags-to-remain-side-by-side-despite-referendum-official 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcfrag Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, tigergorzow said: Sadr-led uprising against government can prevent Kurdistan secession September 25 2017 02:15 PM Sadr and Barzani Although voting in Kurdistan Region’s independence referendum started on Monday, a glimmer of hope has appeared in the horizon. Kurdistan secession may not occur if Sadrist Movement leader Muqtada al-Sadr interfered. As al-Sadr is spearheading political reform in Iraq, he can also play a pivotal role in maintaining the country’s unity. Sources told The Baghdad Post that senior Iraqi leaders have sent urgent message to Sadr to rapidly interfere and try to put an end to Baghdad-Erbil crisis and prevent Kurdistan secession within the next 24 hours to preserve Iraq’s unity and territorial integrity. However, the interference will not be in the form of dialogue or talks held with government officials. In leaks, sources said that the message sent to Sadr urged him to mobilize the Iraqi people and take to the streets to topple the corrupt Green Zone government in Baghdad. The central government was behind many crises Iraq has faced recently that undermined the country at the security, economic and political levels, they noted. They further stated that Baghdad also bought the free will of corrupt Shiites. Overthrowing the Green Zone government can entirely solve Kurdistan Region’s problem, they added. The Green Zone, originally set up to protect US occupation forces from suicide bombings, has been kept in place by successor Iraqi authorities for security reasons. Attempts of mediation from Baghdad and other neighboring countries to force Erbil back down on its plan to hold an independence referendum have failed. Kurdistan Region does not trust the federal government anymore after it had denied Kurds their constitutional rights and cut the region’s share in the federal budget. One of the reasons that forced Kurdistan to consider holding a referendum on independence is that the region’s politicians no longer trust this government. Yet, Sadr’s reform project is respected by all components and factions in Iraq. In their message to Sadr, senior Iraqi politicians said: “We count on Muqtada al-Sadr to change the government in Baghdad fist before inviting Kurds to participate in a dialogue and round-table discussions.” “If he succeeded in changing Baghdad government, Kurds would cooperate and participate in the dialogue. We count on Sadr for saving Iraq from corrupt officials, who previously broke promises they made, betrayed Kurdistan Region and all components of the Iraqi people, gave in to terrorism and crushed aspirations for a secure and stable Iraq.” In March 2016, the powerful Iraqi Shiite leader entered Baghdad’s Green Zone, the heavily-fortified center of the capital housing government buildings and embassies, to keep up pressure on the government to enact reforms. At the time, thousands of Sadr’s supporters began a sit-in at the district’s gates and continued to camp out despite heavy rains, but Sadr took the protest forward by entering the zone itself. Back then, Sadr wanted by this move to urge Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi to proceed with a plan to replace current ministers with unaffiliated technocrats in a bid to tackle systemic political patronage that has abetted graft. According to observers, Sadr can solve Baghdad-Erbil crisis even after voting in the independence referendum had begun. He is a prominent Shiite leader and champion of reform, who is trusted by all Iraqis, including Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, the noted. If Sadr led the revolution to overthrow the federal government in Baghdad, Kurds can take part in a dialogue, which in turn can solve the secession dilemma, they concluded. http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/17394/Sadr-led-uprising-against-government-can-prevent-Kurdistan-secession Ya just gotta live SADR! He and Abadi make a pretty tough team together! With this news I see light at the end of the tunnel!!! Just hope it isn't months down the road, but more of an immediate action, like in one felled swoop!!! Edited September 25, 2017 by jcfrag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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