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21 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

So I am being limited in my choice of how I debate.  So first giving me negatives and now this.  I must be making too much sense....My 2 cents- I wiped the floor with you guys.  You guys had no answers to any of the 54 points I made.  

 

So after now saying I am breaking forum rules and with 10 negatives today.  I will say Adios to this.  My links are here for anyone really wanting the truth.  Seek those. 

 

I'm merely giving you my perspective.  As for wiping the floor with us, were you here because you cared about our salvation or where you just trying to score points?  Where is your heart? 

 

I make a friendly suggestion that you may want to pull back on the fire-hose lever and you think I"m limiting how you debate?  I've told you how to operate in this forum, but you are somehow concerned about what other people think of you.  Is that because you want to please man more than you want to save our souls?  You're willing to go door-to-door and face guns to preach your gospel to unprepared people, but you are unwilling to deal with a few red marks and what we think of you?  Who's the coward now?  

 

21 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

The Christians here fail to see that the Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Espicopalians believe just like them.  Which has the truth?  They all cannot have it.  If they all have it then the cramped and narrow road is HUGE!  And that is not according to the Bible so...

 

 

2 Timothy 2:22-26 (NASB)

22 Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

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If a person is trying to convince me of something or change my mind and they said as much as you(Bot) did I would think you are trying to pull the wool over my eyes. 

IF and I use a big if you were conveying the truth it should not take as much posting as you have done to change peoples mind. I am a Born Again Christian and don't belong

to any denomination. As for the rubies. Take responsibility for what you post. If You believe it then what are a few red marks. 

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6 hours ago, Botzwana said:

I should take responsibility for someone giving me 5 negatives for a post early this year that says Go RV?  Um no.  They have an agenda.

 

As far as other christians here I see them all the time in the gun forum...Talking about war etc.  So I leave you with the following.  Ask yourself who is the true religion.  I think the answer is quite obvious.

The term "Jehovah's Witness" is a Scriptural description for True Christians (Isa.43:10-12).

When you compare two religions who both claim to be Christian you must use Scriptural evidence to identify the true Christians. These evidences are not complicated.

Scriptures say true worshipers could be identified in at least three main ways: Love, Truth (Jn.4:23; 17:17), and Fruitage (Mt.7:16ff). Conversely, by these we can also identify the false.

The True religion would be primarily known for it's love toward all (Jn.13:34,35; 1Jn.3:10-12; 4:7, 8). This would include their enemies (Mat.5:44-48; Rom.12:17-20; 1Pet.2:21-23; 3:8- 9). It would not participate in or condone carnal war (2Cor.10:3,4; Isa.2:4).

Apply this basic evidence to what happened in both world wars and current conflicts. People of the same religions met on battlefields and slaughtered one another because of nationalistic differences. Each side claimed to be Christian, and each side was supported by its clergy, who claimed that God was on their side. The definition of a "Christian" is "one who does what Christ would do": WWJD (1 Pet.2:21). That slaughter of "Christian" by "Christian" is rotten fruitage. It is a denial of any claim to being the true Church (cf. Mat.26:52). No Christian would continue to associate with these religions (Rev.18:4). What is the historical record of Catholics and Protestants regarding warfare? Jehovah’s Witnesses have never participated in warfare.

Another evidence is that the true religion would be made up of people who would all be in agreement on doctrine. It would not have members who believe differently on abortion, war, homosexuality or morals. Its members would not "agree to disagree" (1Cor.1:10; 2Cor.13:11; Phil.1:27). True Christians would be separated from the world by "truth" from God's Word the Bible (Jn.17:17; 4:23). All its teachings would be based on the Bible (2 Tim. 3:14-16; Gal. 1:8, 9).

The true religion would have a reputation for promoting exceptional morality in its members (1Cor.6:9,10; Eph.5:3-5; 2 Pet.3:14; 2Cor.7:1; 2Tim.3:5). Does a religion *require* their congregation members to live moral lives, not allowing practicers of homosexuality, fornication, or adultery to be accepted members of their congregation? Or do they turn a blind eye? If so, their "fruitage" would show they are not true Christians.

True Christians would be associated with God's name: (Jn.17:3,6,26; Acts 15:14/Isa.55:5; 1 Peter 2:9/Ex.19:4- 5; Ps.83:18). They would not use Bibles which have removed the Most Holy Divine Name of God. Replacing the Divine Name with the common noun "Lord" cannot be justified by any translational principles so it is a blatant "subtraction" from God's word which brings a curse on anyone who approves it (Rev.22:18).

The true Church would be engaged in an unprecedented teaching activity (Matthew 24:14, 28:19, 20). Witnesses right now are performing the greatest Bible education work ever done in all human history!

There are more scripture evidences, however these are plenty to show which religion meets the requirements of being the True religion.

Apostate Christianity has neither the spiritual strength nor the support system" rel="">support of God's holy spirit to motivate people to follow the truthful teachings of Jesus Christ. For this reason, the result in Christendom is not true Christianity but counterfeit believers, "weeds" unfit for the Kingdom.-Mat13:24ff.

When you examine most religions you find that they cannot meet any of the other requirements of true Christianity. Their historical record is of bloodthirsty wars, immorality, sectarian violence and factional splits (Mat.7:21- 23; 2Tim3:5; Gal.5:19-23). Today Catholics continue to kill Catholics and Protestants kill Protestants, something true Christians would not do (1Jn.3:10,15; 4:8). Our hearts tell us that any religion who is willing to shoot their own members in warfare cannot possibly be trusted to teach Biblical truth.

I have found only one group which has presented absolute evidence of truly being Christian: Jehovah's Witnesses. This is the testimony of the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 6:9-11; Gal.5:19-22).

 

https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/AudioOriginalSongs/pub-jwbon_201609_1_AUDIO

 

My Spanish needs tons of work, el hermano. Love and appreciation, let the praise go to Jehovah God! (Eze 36:23)

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20120901/the-nations-will-have-to-know/

 

: )

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7 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Apostate Christianity has neither the spiritual strength nor the support system" rel="">support of God's holy spirit to motivate people to follow the truthful teachings of Jesus Christ. For this reason, the result in Christendom is not true Christianity but counterfeit believers, "weeds" unfit for the Kingdom.-Mat13:24ff.

 

The Bible alone is sufficient, but the Watchtower denies this:

 

"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude . . . They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..."3

 

What are the apostate doctrines: Trinity? Hell? Jesus is God? Funny thing is that, according to the Watchtower, if you study the Bible by itself, you will come to believe these things! Could it be that apart from the selected questions, answers, scripture quotes, and direction of the Watchtower teaching that the Bible actually does teach these "apostate doctrines"? If you don't check for yourself and only believe the Watchtower, you'll never know.

 

Do you want to trust your eternal soul to the teachings of several men headquartered in Brooklyn, New York, who claim to be the directors of God's organization on earth? Do you? Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

 

If you are a Jehovah's Witness, please read this first.

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Markinsa, I pray for Bot, for he has been deceived by these teachings.  I've known many Jehovah's Witness, in fact have a family member (Jehovah's Witnesses) who is in doubt of this teachings. 

I too have door to door sales Jehovah Witness.  They seem eager to sale the wrong teachings that they have no clear view of what they are selling.  I know that there are many Jehovah's that have converted to Christianity. 

Bot's childish questioning, his twisting of the Scripture, what I take away from it is, he is one lost sheep.  The more we feed him the truth, he, through his words, the louder, and uncertainties he demonstrates. He demonstrates his anger, his urgency to convinced, little does he understand, we don't need to be convinced, faith is what makes us believers in Christ's love. 

Thank you Markinsa for sharing the word!

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Here is a heart warming testimony of a Jehovah's Witness and really articulates what I have been trying to say all along:

 

Why I Left the Jehovah’s Witnesses

A personal testimony by a person born into the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

A Personal Testimony by Jean Eason

Jean Eason

 

I was a third generation Jehovah’s Witness (JW). When I recall the days of my youth, it seems that what I heard most often was how wrong the “religionists” were in comparison to the JWs who were right about everything.

As a JW, I was concerned with works — not only doing such things as preaching from house to house, but with the things I must not do, such as celebrate holidays and birthdays. Every word written by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WBTS) was considered “truth” that must be followed to the letter, whether it was rejecting a blood transfusion, refraining from voting, or refusing to serve in the military. To do otherwise was considered sinning against Jehovah, resulting in the possibility of losing the hope of eternal life.

Developing Doubts

I was married and had three children before I began having serious doubts about the WBTS being God’s only channel of communication. These doubts began to emerge when I had to make some very important decisions that simply went against the grain of my personality. I have in mind decisions like signing papers to let a baby die rather than take blood. You see, I had an RH factor blood condition, and in those days they transfused the baby at birth should a problem occur. I refused the procedure. Fortunately, I was spared — but I was ready and willing to let my child die! Why? Because I was convinced that the WBTS had the “truth” and should I do differently, I would lose the hope of eternal life, and so would my child, should death occur.

I developed further doubts when the WBTS got “new light” (additions or changes to what had been previously taught). On one occasion, the “new light” revealed that if you see a JW sinning and do not report the person, then you are guilty of that sin yourself. Shortly after this “new light” came, a sister in our congregation took blood when she hemorrhaged at childbirth. My options were either to report her or have the sin fall on me. Both options bothered me. But, you see, when you have no personal relationship with Jesus, you follow people blindly, trusting them to be in God’s will. Like a good JW, I reported her, and she had to appear before a disciplinary committee of elders.

This, along with other “new light,” caused me to start thinking about where and how they get their new light. I inherited a WBTS library from one of my relatives, and I began reading the older publications. I learned they had changed their interpretations of Scripture many times. I took note that the modern literature quoted often from the older publications. Now I was able to pick up the very book they quoted from — and guess what? I discovered that they often misquoted their own writings, or else took them out of context or misapplied them! After two years of research I realized I was following a supposedly infallible organization that was based upon the constantly changing opinions of men.

Experiencing the Holy Spirit

I stopped attending all JW meetings and activities, and I entered into a state of spiritual loneliness. Where could I go? I had been taught that all other religions were false. Where could I find real truth?

After a great deal of searching, I decided to try out a Christian church. My husband and I attended for a while, but we did not come to know the true person of Christ. I remained convinced that churches were of the devil. After all, I reasoned to myself, churches believe in the concepts of the Trinity, Hell fire, and the soul leaving the body at death. I didn’t believe any of those doctrines.

While I was trying desperately to sort out all these doctrines, the WBTS got “new light.” They issued a new edict that said if any JW attended a Christian church, they would be disfellowshipped. Not knowing whether I was following Satan or Jesus, I submitted to the elders when I was called to a disciplinary meeting. I agreed to stop attending church. I was just not yet ready to be disfellowshipped for something I was not sure of.

Fifteen years later, my Catholic sister-in-law shared that she was “born again.” I’d never heard of a born again Catholic! But I knew something had happened to her because I saw change in her life. She began giving up bad habits such as smoking. She was aglow with something — I didn’t know what. She spoke of prayer meetings in the Catholic Church, and she challenged me to attend one of the meetings.

I went out of curiosity. Right away, I realized this was not a typical Catholic meeting. The speaker shared the love of Jesus in such a way that I’d never heard before. It was obvious that his focus was on the personage of Jesus Christ. Oh, how I needed that message! When he finished, he asked that we stand, join hands, and sing the Lord’s Prayer.

When we did so, something very unexpected happened. Suddenly, I felt God’s liquid love pour over me from the top of my head to the tip of my toes! Without knowing what had happened, I instantly realized I had been searching for the “truth” in all the wrong places.

In John 14:6 Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father except by Me.” Yes, Jesus is The Truth, and He “was there all the time!” No wonder a song was written by that title. The song, “He Touched Me,” came to mind. Now, I understood that also. I felt such a joy in my heart. I just wanted to rejoice, but I restrained myself, thinking people would notice a strange look on my face.

When we left, my friend said, “How did you like it?” I just started laughing. I couldn’t restrain the joy any longer!

She said, “Something happened to you, didn’t it?”

I replied, “Yes. I can’t explain it, but I feel as though I’ve been cleansed from head to toe!” I realize now that I was touched by the power of the Holy Spirit. God knew I could never find the “truth” by searching through definitions of words. I had my Watchtower blinders on. I couldn’t believe the simple gospel — I had to experience it!

Now, I understood why Paul had to be knocked from his horse to become a believer — some of us are just like that! I thought for sure my new-found joy would be gone the next morning, but it wasn’t. I woke up anxious to read the Bible and pray! As I read through the book of John, I wondered when the word, Jesus, was added to so many pages. I had never before noticed how the Scriptures focus on Him.

Making a Dangerous Promise

I got on my knees, and in the privacy of my living room, I asked Jesus to come into my life. I promised I would do anything He asked of me. Well, don’t pray that prayer if you’re not willing to be obedient. I had no idea what He had in store for me.

My husband liked the change in me, so he was willing to visit prayer meetings and, finally, even church. We were subsequently visited by two JW elders who told us we were going to be disfellowshipped. Think of that — disfellowshipped after 15 years of non-attendance! We were okay as non-attenders, until we started attending a Christian church!

My husband decided to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. The next year was spent in deprogramming ourselves. We had to learn everything over. Meanwhile, we were completely ostracized by family and friends.

Then the Lord put it in my heart to write a book about my spiritual pilgrimage. After it was published, I was invited to appear on national television along with three other former JWs. Soon, all of us began receiving a ton of mail! I had not expected to go into ministry any more than I had expected to write a book — but here I was, living out the promise: “I’ll do anything!” Before I knew it, I was sharing my research and my newly learned orthodox views with hundreds of JWs and Christians who needed to help loved ones in the JWs. I became a Christian discipler over night, and discovered that my JW discipling skills came in handy.

I feel so very privileged to be called of the Lord to share Jesus with JWs who have been deceived into believing in a false Jesus whom they identify as the archangel Michael.

My husband and I continue ministering to those ensnared in the cults. We also feel a call to educate Christians about the dangers of the cults. Additionally, Christians need in-depth instruction as to why they believe what they believe. Keep in mind that Christians convert unbelievers whereas the cults convert Christians.

 

http://christinprophecy.org/articles/why-i-left-the-jehovahs-witnesses/

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Thank you George Hayduke for the topic.

 

This is truly a question that we take on faith, because our limited human brains simply cannot understand it.  And while we cannot fathom this mystery, we know and love this fact of the three persons in one God. 

John 16:12-13 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you things that are to come.:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Botzwana said:

I should take responsibility for someone giving me 5 negatives for a post early this year that says Go RV?  Um no.  They have an agenda.

 

As far as other christians here I see them all the time in the gun forum...Talking about war etc.  So I leave you with the following.  Ask yourself who is the true religion.  I think the answer is quite obvious.

The term "Jehovah's Witness" is a Scriptural description for True Christians (Isa.43:10-12).

When you compare two religions who both claim to be Christian you must use Scriptural evidence to identify the true Christians. These evidences are not complicated.

Scriptures say true worshipers could be identified in at least three main ways: Love, Truth (Jn.4:23; 17:17), and Fruitage (Mt.7:16ff). Conversely, by these we can also identify the false.

The True religion would be primarily known for it's love toward all (Jn.13:34,35; 1Jn.3:10-12; 4:7, 8). This would include their enemies (Mat.5:44-48; Rom.12:17-20; 1Pet.2:21-23; 3:8- 9). It would not participate in or condone carnal war (2Cor.10:3,4; Isa.2:4).

Apply this basic evidence to what happened in both world wars and current conflicts. People of the same religions met on battlefields and slaughtered one another because of nationalistic differences. Each side claimed to be Christian, and each side was supported by its clergy, who claimed that God was on their side. The definition of a "Christian" is "one who does what Christ would do": WWJD (1 Pet.2:21). That slaughter of "Christian" by "Christian" is rotten fruitage. It is a denial of any claim to being the true Church (cf. Mat.26:52). No Christian would continue to associate with these religions (Rev.18:4). What is the historical record of Catholics and Protestants regarding warfare? Jehovah’s Witnesses have never participated in warfare.

Another evidence is that the true religion would be made up of people who would all be in agreement on doctrine. It would not have members who believe differently on abortion, war, homosexuality or morals. Its members would not "agree to disagree" (1Cor.1:10; 2Cor.13:11; Phil.1:27). True Christians would be separated from the world by "truth" from God's Word the Bible (Jn.17:17; 4:23). All its teachings would be based on the Bible (2 Tim. 3:14-16; Gal. 1:8, 9).

The true religion would have a reputation for promoting exceptional morality in its members (1Cor.6:9,10; Eph.5:3-5; 2 Pet.3:14; 2Cor.7:1; 2Tim.3:5). Does a religion *require* their congregation members to live moral lives, not allowing practicers of homosexuality, fornication, or adultery to be accepted members of their congregation? Or do they turn a blind eye? If so, their "fruitage" would show they are not true Christians.

True Christians would be associated with God's name: (Jn.17:3,6,26; Acts 15:14/Isa.55:5; 1 Peter 2:9/Ex.19:4- 5; Ps.83:18). They would not use Bibles which have removed the Most Holy Divine Name of God. Replacing the Divine Name with the common noun "Lord" cannot be justified by any translational principles so it is a blatant "subtraction" from God's word which brings a curse on anyone who approves it (Rev.22:18).

The true Church would be engaged in an unprecedented teaching activity (Matthew 24:14, 28:19, 20). Witnesses right now are performing the greatest Bible education work ever done in all human history!

There are more scripture evidences, however these are plenty to show which religion meets the requirements of being the True religion.

Apostate Christianity has neither the spiritual strength nor the support system" rel="">support of God's holy spirit to motivate people to follow the truthful teachings of Jesus Christ. For this reason, the result in Christendom is not true Christianity but counterfeit believers, "weeds" unfit for the Kingdom.-Mat13:24ff.

When you examine most religions you find that they cannot meet any of the other requirements of true Christianity. Their historical record is of bloodthirsty wars, immorality, sectarian violence and factional splits (Mat.7:21- 23; 2Tim3:5; Gal.5:19-23). Today Catholics continue to kill Catholics and Protestants kill Protestants, something true Christians would not do (1Jn.3:10,15; 4:8). Our hearts tell us that any religion who is willing to shoot their own members in warfare cannot possibly be trusted to teach Biblical truth.

I have found only one group which has presented absolute evidence of truly being Christian: Jehovah's Witnesses. This is the testimony of the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 6:9-11; Gal.5:19-22).

 

 

Dude, you lost me after about 5 sentences. You will not convince me if you are using an example of religions I don't belong to. I said I was NON-DENOMINATIONAL. That means I don't associate with any organized religion. 

Would I fight for my government? No I don"t think so.

Would I fight for my God, family, country? You bet absolutely. 

I was taught defend the weak, feed the hungry, give shelter to homeless. 

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58 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

Dude, you lost me after about 5 sentences. You will not convince me if you are using an example of religions I don't belong to. I said I was NON-DENOMINATIONAL. That means I don't associate with any organized religion. 

Would I fight for my government? No I don"t think so.

Would I fight for my God, family, country? You bet absolutely. 

I was taught defend the weak, feed the hungry, give shelter to homeless. 

 

Yep, NStoolMan1!!! :tiphat:

 

Here is an excerpt from the article I posted:

 

3 hours ago, Synopsis said:

While I was trying desperately to sort out all these doctrines, the WBTS got “new light.”

 

I suspect Botzwana and the other practicing Jehovah's Witnesses are confused about what "new light" to follow and just end up being a deer in the headlights. I really am sincerely concerned and trying to help like a lot of other's here but the ole Jehovah's Witnesses tactics kick in and they steer everything from the TRUTH by misquoting and otherwise corrupting Scriptures. Again, an excerpt from the article I posted:

 

3 hours ago, Synopsis said:

I learned they had changed their interpretations of Scripture many times. I took note that the modern literature quoted often from the older publications. Now I was able to pick up the very book they quoted from and guess what? I discovered that they often misquoted their own writings, or else took them out of context or misapplied them! After two years of research I realized I was following a supposedly infallible organization that was based upon the constantly changing opinions of men.

 

Did You catch that, Botzwana and all the other practicing Jehovah's Witnesses???!!! So You see why I do not respond to the Jehovah Witness Trash Teachings brought into the forum and just use Scriptures???!!!

 

Hey, get a load of this!!!

 

3 hours ago, Synopsis said:

God knew I could never find the “truth” by searching through definitions of words. I had my Watchtower blinders on.

 

:o   :o   :o

 

Hey, I am going to keep God The Son Jesus Christ as my only Light being led by God The Holy Spirit. I have no desire to change to the ever changing and morphing WBTS "new light"!!!

 

John 8:12 New International Version (NIV)

Dispute Over Jesus’ Testimony

12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

New International Version (NIV)

Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

 

John 9:4-5 New International Version (NIV)

As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

New International Version (NIV)

Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

 

John 11:8-10 New International Version (NIV)

“But Rabbi,” they said, “a short while ago the Jews there tried to stone you, and yet you are going back?”

Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light.10 It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”

New International Version (NIV)

Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

 

John 12:44-50New International Version (NIV)

44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

New International Version (NIV)

Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

Edited by Synopsis
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