The Deity of Jesus Christ

[Markinsa]

3 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Yeah but if I get too many negatives just talking about this topic, I could be banned though right?  

 

Just talking is one thing, being disrespectful to other's opinions is what gets you banned. There are a few liberals who post on this site quite prolifically that get the same type of response you have been getting for years. 

 

Bottom line keep your posts respectful and you'll have no problems with the Admins or moderators.

 

[patrickgold]

12 hours ago, Botzwana said:

See, I feel like Witnesses have the truth.  I proved my case over and over.  I am not bowing out of this debate because I think I lost.  It is only because of ¨christian¨bullies.  If we didn´t have the voting system here, I would discuss even furthur.  I presented the scriptures as they are.  None of them add up to a Godman.  It is sad that discussion cannot go on freely about the Bible.

 

8 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Yeah but if I get too many negatives just talking about this topic, I could be banned though right?  

 

So now you know what it felt liked when Christ was persecuted.  Christians aren't bullies, we don't need to defend the word, we are to protect the word, the truth.  If you don't like the way we do it and complain about it, then who's the bully. 

 

[patrickgold]

3 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Patrick you have no idea what true persecution is as to being a christian.  I went door to door to teach people the Bible for 

 

Heck do you even do research?  Go ahead and look up the concentration camps of WW2.  NO baptists, catholics, methodists etc. were in those camps.  Guess who were?  Jews and only Jehovahs Witnesses.  

 

 

I don't know what world you live in, or what history books you grew up with, but you couldn't be more wrong.  Look that up and tell me your correct in your history.  

[Fly]

13 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Yeah but if I get too many negatives just talking about this topic, I could be banned though right?  

 

Botswana, good to see you too.

Though we are a people for God’s name, Jehovah provides for the needs of each individual of his house, building personal relationships in a bond of Love only a Father can. When you meditate looking back you may find the awakening you have had had its beginning sometime ago? Brusk…I was simply there to listen when you needed someone to be your sounding board. I saw a change in the expression of your post but didn’t really know what it meant, thank you so much for the encouragement by sharing with me.  

 

: )

 

In Isaiah’s day, the call went out: “Search for Jehovah, you people, while he may be found. Call to him while he proves to be near.” (Isaiah 55:6) In our day, these words are appropriate, both for those who form the Israel of God and for the growing great crowd. Jehovah’s blessing is not unconditional, nor is his invitation extended indefinitely. Now is the time to seek God’s favor. When the appointed time for Jehovah’s judgment arrives, it will be too late. Hence, Isaiah says: “Let the wicked man leave his way, and the harmful man his thoughts; and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him, and to our God, for he will forgive in a large way.”—Isaiah 55:7.

The phrase “let him return to Jehovah” implies that those needing to repent had a relationship with God formerly. The expression reminds us that many aspects of this part of Isaiah’s prophecy have their first application with the Jewish captives in Babylon. Centuries before, the forefathers of these captives declared their determination to be obedient to Jehovah when they stated: “It is unthinkable, on our part, to leave Jehovah so as to serve other gods.” (Joshua 24:16) History shows that the “unthinkable” did happen—repeatedly! The lack of faith on the part of God’s people is the reason why they are exiles in Babylon.

Read more; https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102001036#h=29:0-31:165

[Markinsa]

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

Well I have done a 180.  I am ready to return.  Thanks Fly!  It was the blog Defending Jehovahs Witnesses that really helped me.

 

Another thing about this topic though.  It seems to be that Markinsa reads what Thomas said when he said to Jesus My God and My lord to mean that Jesus is God.  Ok, let´s take that logic to it´s full conclusion.  Then Peter is Satan.  That is right...Satan.  Did not Jesus say to Peter- Get behind me Satan?

 

Does that REALLY make Peter out to be Satan?  Of course not.  Neither does Thomas´exclamation of My God My Lord is for Jesus being God.

 

You do know Satan really does exist along with his other followers.... Satan does have the power to influence what humans say and do....  So if Jesus said that, Yeah Peter was being influenced by Satan and Jesus called him by name.

 

Please respond to this post:

 

 

[Markinsa]

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

You didn´t get my post.  I KNOW Satan influences people.  That was not the point.  Thomas said to Jesus My God and you think that means Jesus IS God.  But Jesus called Peter Satan...that doesn´t make Peter Satan though.  That was all it was.

 

That's what you would like to continue believing. You should read the commentaries outside of the JW on that passage.  Both of the passages you mentioned above, the speaker was actually identifying the person they were speaking to,  Thomas speaking to God, and Jesus to Satan who was speaking through Peter.  If it were an excited exclamation, why did he put "and" in between "My Lord and My God"?  Where are the exclamation marks?

 

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

Perhaps a rebuke was there.  Perhaps it was not recorded.  IT was not about Thomas thinking he was God.  It was about him believing he was resurrected.  That is the entire point of the story.

 

Nope, the point of the Story was Jesus was resurrected and that he was identified as God by Thomas, and Jesus didn't argue with him.

 

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

If Thomas' statement truly meant that he believed that Jesus was God, surely John would have shown Thomas prostrating himself before “God” and worshiping him (but he doesn’t). So how does John summarize this incident? - “But these were written that you may believe [Believe what? That Jesus is God? Here, then, is where it should have been written if John really believed such a thing:] that Jesus is THE CHRIST, the Son OF God.” - John 20:31, RSV. (Be sure to compare 1 John 5:5.)

 

John already identified Jesus as God in John 1:1.  How many times does John need to say that Jesus is God before you can accept it?

 

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

If the disciples had learned, upon seeing the resurrected Jesus, that he was God, certainly they would have indicated this! But notice, neither before nor after receiving Holy Spirit (:22) did they kneel or do any act of worship such as one would certainly do upon becoming aware of being in the presence of God!

 

Luke 24:48-53 (NASB)

48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

50 And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51 While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple praising God.

 

If Jesus isn't God, why were they worshipping him?

 

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

 

Certainly, being resurrected from the dead does not make you God. Many other persons in the Scriptures had been resurrected from the dead before Jesus, and no one, for a moment, ever suspected them of being God! In fact, being resurrected from the dead would indicate that a person was not God, since God has always been immortal and cannot die in the first place!

 

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB)

6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

 

.

[Markinsa]

1 minute ago, Botzwana said:

Oh man...how do you do those little boxes of quotes.  That would be great to learn too.

 

I quoted your entire post.  I hit the enter key to separate the text and it automatically creates a new quote box.

Let me see if I can make it through these videos.

 

.

[Markinsa]

21 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

John 1:1   Here is a video discussing it...NOT a JW video.  You said to look outside.  Here ya go!

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/but-what-about-john-1-1

 

Luke 24:52 https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32446  Another outside source.  They gave reverance too.  Not worship.

 

Isaiah 9:6  http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.mx/2013/10/does-isa-96-really-prove-that-jesus-is.html

 

Ok, This is what I have determined from watching all of this.  I read my bible as it is translated and how the Holy Spirit reveals things to me, and this is what I got.  If there are many scriptures in the Bible that tell you one thing, and you have to constantly find excuses or reasons why they don't mean that, then more than likely the first meaning you get is the correct one.

 

The unitarian guys says John 1:1 is translated correctly, but it could also be translated with a slight variation.

 

The debating Christianity link, is like saying well yeah, they're worshipping Jesus, and that's ok, but he's not really God.  God really doesn't care about us worshipping anyone else but him.  You know he's not the Jealous type...  God doesn't mind other gods getting credit for what He's done.  So what's a little side idol worship going to hurt?  

 

Defending JW... Same as 1 and 2.  They're trying to explain away things that are clearly written down.  I don't know how much more clearer it gets than Isaiah 9:6

 

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB)
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called

Wonderful Counselor,

Mighty God,
Eternal Father,

Prince of Peace.