The Deity of Jesus Christ

Synopsis · October 5, 2017

2 hours ago, Botzwana said:

I asked you point blank and you have STILL refused to answer that if you believed we have a little fleshly Jesus actually living in our hearts and you never gave a response, much less a grounded one. So come on now....

BUT...everything in the Bible we CAN understand as human beings no? Why write it if we cannot?

Hey Markinsa, thanks for letting me know how to do this. It is much better! Can you give me real examples of how I have twisted scripture? Ezekial 18:4 says souls die. HOW did I twist it again? You guys are saying that souls do not die. Which one of us is twisting scripture again? This is just one example. Numbers 23:12 God is not a man YET you say Jesus is God and was a man. Again who is twisting the scriptures?

14 hours ago, Synopsis said:

Botzwana, my view and opinion is You are disingenuous and irrational with the questions and responses You have posted that resulted in others providing grounded responses with the obvious implications to satisfy the questions You posed or clearly refuting the statements You have made. To me, this indicates You are in a state of denial with regard to the TRUTH. For my posts, and I am almost certain regarding others' posts You rigorously and erroneously dissect, I post out of genuine response having concern for the TRUTH and a high regard for being grounded in the TRUTH in belief, action, and speech with a desire for others, not only You, to receive and embrace the TRUTH. I, as well as You and everyone else, will be held accountable to the TRUTH. Any denial I, as well as You and everyone else, have will be addressed by the TRUTH.

Hebrews 4:12-16 New International Version (NIV)

¹²For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. ¹³Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the Great High Priest

¹⁴Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,^[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. ¹⁵For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. ¹⁶Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Footnotes:

Hebrews 4:14 Greek has gone through the heavens

New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

John 4:23-24 New International Version (NIV)

²³Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. ²⁴God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

New International Version (NIV)

Hasn't Your questions already been answered? Why the rigorous and erroneous dissections from You? To say Jesus Christ dwells in my physical heart physically would not take the Scriptures at face value. Of course Jesus Christ dwells in my heart Spiritually since Jesus Christ is my only source of Life and dwells in my heart desires to give me meaning in Life.

Psalm 37:4New International Version (NIV)

⁴Take delight in the Lord,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.

New International Version (NIV)

Is Faith a physical instrument?

Hebrews 11:1-6New International Version (NIV)

Faith in Action

11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. ²This is what the ancients were commended for.

³By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

⁴By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

⁵By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”^[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. ⁶And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Footnotes:

Hebrews 11:5 Gen. 5:24

New International Version (NIV)

So here again is the Scripture You mock:

Ephesians 3:14-21New International Version (NIV)

A Prayer for the Ephesians

¹⁴For this reason I kneel before the Father, ¹⁵from whom every family^[a]in heaven and on earth derives its name. ¹⁶I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, ¹⁷so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, ¹⁸may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, ¹⁹and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

²⁰Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, ²¹to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Footnotes:

Ephesians 3:15 The Greek for family (patria) is derived from the Greek for father (pater).

New International Version (NIV)

So if Jesus Christ is Spiritual and having appeared in the flesh in the form of a man as God, Faith is Spiritual and is required by God, and the Heart is Spiritual that the LORD answers with Godly desires, why do You mock by asking, "that if you believed we have a little fleshly Jesus actually living in our hearts"?

I look at the incoherent, circular reasoned, Scripturally baseless Tazer Trash that contradicts plain Scripture You post and You expect me to give You a grounded response You will acknowledge? And You as why I post Scripture? Doesn't The Holy Spirit use the Scriptures for HIS own end?

Isaiah 55:6-11New International Version (NIV)

⁶Seek the Lord while he may be found;
    call on him while he is near.
⁷Let the wicked forsake their ways
    and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
    and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

⁸“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
⁹“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.
¹⁰As the rain and the snow
    come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
    without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
    so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
¹¹so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
    It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
    and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

New International Version (NIV)

Who would You rather listen to, me or God The Holy Spirit? I would hope You chose God The Holy Spirit. Ultimately, You, I, and every person will give an account to HIM. I have chosen to accept HIS words. Will You?

DinarDavo · October 5, 2017

3 hours ago, Botzwana said:

BUT...everything in the Bible we CAN understand as human beings no? Why write it if we cannot?

This is just circle talk.....blessings and peace to you and yours my friend.

Synopsis · October 6, 2017

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

Thank GOODNESS you finally admitted it Synopsis! That there was not a little physical Jesus living in your heart but it was totally figurative. I started to wonder about you. And no you never answered that until now. YES it is figurative. JUST as I said all along! Whew!

Not really. Did You actually read the Scripture? I believe Jesus Christ dwells in my heart. So, You haven't discredited a thing regarding Scriptures. To use this physically is ludicrous so don't insult Yourself with Your senseless discrediting of clear Scripture.

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

I wasn´t mocking scripture. I asked you point blank if you believed a little fleshly Jesus actually lived in your heart and you posted that scripture as your answer. You didn´t answer it outright so I had to go on an assumption since you were playing Marcel Marceau.

Oh, really? I only quoted references to Your questions. Again, do You want God The Holy Spirit to speak to You or me? How come You did not answer that question?

John 16:1-15New International Version (NIV)

16 “All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. ²They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. ³They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. ⁴I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, ⁵but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ ⁶Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. ⁷But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. ⁸When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:⁹about sin, because people do not believe in me; ¹⁰about righteousness,because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;¹¹and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

¹²“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. ¹³But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. ¹⁴He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. ¹⁵All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

New International Version (NIV)

John 14:26New International Version (NIV)

²⁶But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

New International Version (NIV)

John 15:26New International Version (NIV)

The Work of the Holy Spirit

²⁶“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

New International Version (NIV)

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

Some you accept, some you do not. I.E. like Ezekial 18:4 that says souls die. You do not accept that one do you? How about Ecclesiates 9:5? The dead are conscience of nothing at all. If that is so....they are not tormented in a hell forever then, since they have no conscience...

Revelation 20:11-15New International Version (NIV)

The Judgment of the Dead

¹¹Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹²And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.¹⁵Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

New International Version (NIV)

Pretty clear here, Botzwana, the dead do exist forever in the lake of fire.

I strongly suggest You, Botzwana, rid Yourself of the Tazer Trash that denies You the TRUTH of Scripture.

ATHIM · October 6, 2017

Synopsis,

Botswana has been led astray by very cunning and deceptive spirits who seek his ruin, they have dealt with like mind types since the dawn. People who ask you to prove these kinds of things to them do not believe in evidence.

May God in His infinite mercy be merciful to all those who seek His face and the truth of His being, we live in very dark times. Now the great martyrs will arise, great in the sense that the average persons spirituality is so low that to confess Jesus as Lord and God in of itself is credit worthy and miraculous BUT, to die for Him in such an adulterous age will bring God off His throne to kiss them. May we all reside on the blessed side of paradise where the holy saints repose.

Synopsis · October 6, 2017

21 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Wait...so now you are BACK to believing that Jesus Christ ACTUALLY lives inside your human body? OMG....Wow....See my wife and I DWELL together...but we are two seperate people. Sorry you do not understand that. Jesus lives in heaven, not in physical human beings hearts. It baffles me you fail to get that.

Your second scripture is about the holy spirit...yeah I believe in that. You know none of that talks about a trinity right?

Ah, I see about the lake of fire. So you are saying because they were thrown in there that they live forever? Man you so confused....WHY is the lake of fire CALLED the Second Death? Ever think about that? Because THAT is what it is! Lord....So when you die here on Earth, you are dead. Pushing up daisies. In John, God will resurrect people to life back on Earth. If we reject God again....We um, DIE again. Again HOW do you throw Death into the lake of fire? I asked this once and got crickets. So the um, lake of fire is symbolic of everlasting death. Not an actual lake. Oi vey.....The book of Revelation is a book full of symbols and Revelation Chap. 20 itself is full of figurative (not literal) language. So when the rest of the Bible clearly shows how when someone dies, they are not conscious of anything (Ps. 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5) and that the condition of the dead is one of inactivity - likened to a deep sleep (Ps. 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60; 1 Cor. 7:39; 15:51; 1 Thess. 4:13), it would seem reasonable to conclude that what was written at Revelation chap. 20 is indeed phrased in figurative or symbolic terms.

Rev. 20:14 shows that Hell is not the same as the lake of fire. So when Hell (Hades) is finally CAST INTO the lake of fire (which symbolizes eternal destruction), this means that Hades, the common grave of mankind, is totally destroyed. It goes out of existence, being completely emptied of its dead. In addition to resurrecting all faithful worshipers of God, the Bible says that He will also mercifully bring back even unrighteous ones:

“There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15)

Oh yeah? If Jesus were God it would be spelled out in the Bible no? I mean if this were such an important point, Jesus would say it 50 times probably. WHY is it he never says I AM GOD? Not one time....Ugh.

17 hours ago, Synopsis said:

Botzwana, my view and opinion is You are disingenuous and irrational with the questions and responses You have posted that resulted in others providing grounded responses with the obvious implications to satisfy the questions You posed or clearly refuting the statements You have made. To me, this indicates You are in a state of denial with regard to the TRUTH. For my posts, and I am almost certain regarding others' posts You rigorously and erroneously dissect, I post out of genuine response having concern for the TRUTH and a high regard for being grounded in the TRUTH in belief, action, and speech with a desire for others, not only You, to receive and embrace the TRUTH. I, as well as You and everyone else, will be held accountable to the TRUTH. Any denial I, as well as You and everyone else, have will be addressed by the TRUTH.

My role is not to convince You of anything with regard to the TRUTH as revealed by God The Holy Spirit in Scriptures but only to give testimony to what I believe. As I mentioned earlier, I do not know what You did or what You are doing that is gnawing at You but I do believe God The Holy Spirit is addressing You. I have presented what I believe is relevant to You but see You rigorously and erroneously dissect what is presented to You. Here is what I know so I'll bow out from the discussion with the hope that God The Holy Spirit will reveal the TRUTH to You:

2 Timothy 2:14-26New International Version (NIV)

Dealing With False Teachers

¹⁴Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. ¹⁵Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. ¹⁶Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. ¹⁷Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, ¹⁸who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. ¹⁹Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

²⁰In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. ²¹Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

²²Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. ²³Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. ²⁴And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.²⁵Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, ²⁶and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

New International Version (NIV)

Markinsa · October 6, 2017

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

See if the scriptures say that God is a man...even though Numbers 23:12 says God is NOT a man....THEN after you read and compare the Bible, you can decide who is telling you the truth.

I think you referenced the Wrong Verse: Numbers 23:12

Numbers 23:12 (AMP)

12 Balaam answered, “Must I not be obedient and careful to speak what the Lord has put in my mouth?”

Below is the passage I beleive you attempted to reference, and it appears that you are taking the litteral translation of what is being said, without taking into account the surrounding context of what is being said. Notice, no where in the below text does it say God will "Never" become a man. The below is God saying he doesn't have the same characteristics of man.

Numbers 23:15-24 (AMP)

15 Balaam said to Balak, “Stand here beside your burnt offering while I go to meet the Lord over there.” 16 Then the Lord met Balaam and put a speech in his mouth, and said, “Go back to Balak and you shall speak thus.” 17 When Balaam returned to Balak, he was standing beside his burnt offering, and the leaders of Moab were with him. And Balak said to him, “What has the Lord spoken?” 18 Balaam took up his [second] discourse (oracle) and said:
“Rise up, O Balak, and hear;
Listen [closely] to me, son of Zippor.
19
“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken and will He not make it good and fulfill it?
20
“Behold, I have received His command to bless [Israel].
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.
21
“God has not observed wickedness in Jacob [for he is forgiven],
Nor has He seen trouble in Israel.
The Lord their God is with Israel,
And the shout of their King is among the people.
22
“God brought them out of Egypt;
They have the strength of a wild ox.
23
“For there is no enchantment or omen against Jacob,
Nor is there any divination against Israel.
At the proper time it shall be said to Jacob
And to Israel, what has God done!
24
“Behold, a people rises up like a lioness
And lifts itself up like a lion;
He will not lie down until he devours the prey
And drinks the blood of the slain.”

Joe Sutherland · October 6, 2017

Without the Word Of God it's every man's word against another... But if we are going to seek understanding from the scriptures... Here's one that may help.

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Colossians 2:9 KJV oh yeah... That's talking about Jesus.

ATHIM · October 6, 2017

(John 1:1-5)

¹ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² He was in the beginning with God. ³ All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. ⁴ In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. ⁵ And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Markinsa · October 6, 2017

37 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

You are right Markinsa. I was typing too fast. Got the wrong verse. Hey, at least it was the right chapter. God is not man NOR is he the son of man. Was Jesus called the son of man? Yeppers.

Let me repeat, that scripture does not say that God will "NEVER" become a Man or the Son of Man.

.

Markinsa · October 6, 2017

9 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

That is a stttttrrrreeeaaaatttchhhhh.... Man. Yeah, he MIGHT not become a purple dinosaur either but it doesn´t look like he is going that way as well. Jesus is the Son of man. God Almighty is not.

So if Jesus is not God, how do you suppose God and Jesus will rule us? Will Jesus be the mouth piece of God? Will God stop talking to us because Jesus is now doing all the talking? How will we be able to differentiate between who is talking to us? Will Jesus have a Mexican accent so we can differentiate between their voices? :huh:

.

Joe Sutherland · October 6, 2017

This is God speaking His Son...

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Hebrews 1:8 KJV

patrickgold · October 6, 2017

Guys, you've tried your best to teach Botzwana to see the truth, 3 pages of it and if you read it over you'll find that he is toying with you. He is held strong in the realm of denial. Pray for him... is all we can do.

I commend you all for sharing your love for God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ!

Markinsa · October 7, 2017

3 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Not in denial at all. Jesus never says he is God. Period. It is you that is in denial. Can God die? Habbakuk 1:12New International Version
LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, you will never die. You, LORD, have appointed them to execute judgment; you, my Rock, have ordained them to punish.

IF God cannot EVER die....and Jesus is God...and Jesus died...then that would make the Bible a lie. So Jesus clearly is not God.

Come on Patrick. Don´t take you ball and go home...

There's more than one translation for Habbakuk 1:12

NKJV

12 Are You not from everlasting,
O Lord my God, my Holy One?
We shall not die.
O Lord, You have appointed them for judgment;
O Rock, You have marked them for correction.

NASB

Are You not from everlasting,
O Lord, my God, my Holy One?
We will not die.
You, O Lord, have appointed them to judge;
And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.

AMP

Are You not from everlasting,
O Lord, my God, My Holy One?
We will not die.
O Lord, You have appointed the Chaldeans [who rule in Babylon] to execute [Your] judgment,
And You, O Rock, have established them to correct and chastise.

Markinsa · October 7, 2017

17 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

4. Then why does Scripture say he was born and is part of Creation? (Col. 1:15)

5. Then why does Rev. 3:14 say that Jesus is "the beginning of the creationof God"?

7. Then why does Micah 5:2 say that Jesus' ORIGIN was “from early times”?

How can Jesus be only a man if he existed prior to his birth?

8 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”

How can God be walking in the garden if he doesn't have a body?

.

DinarDavo · October 7, 2017

26 minutes ago, Markinsa said:

How can Jesus be only a man if he existed prior to his birth?

You already know this...just sharing.

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=FJE1JJNU

Edited October 7, 2017 by DinarDavo

Markinsa · October 7, 2017

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

So after 63 proofs I posted about how jesus could not be God which you do not address of course...you throw this skimpy bone at me?

Well....I will answer it unlike the many posts I have done where no one is to be found answering me....

Enoch and Noah are said to have walked with God. Do you walk with God Markinsa? It is symbolic and figurative. Not literal.

Of course, a flesh-and-blood human cannot literally take a walk with Jehovah, a spirit being. (Exodus 33:20; John 4:24) So when the Bible speaks of humans walking with God, it uses figurative language. It paints a remarkable word picture, one that rises above national and cultural boundaries and that even transcends time. After all, in what place or era would people be unable to grasp the concept of one person walking in company with another? The Bible often likens life to a journey or a walk. In some cases, that comparison is direct, but in other cases, it is implied. For instance, Jesus said: “Who of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his life span?” (Matthew 6:27) Something about those words may strike you as puzzling. Why would Jesus speak of adding “one cubit,” which is a measure of distance, to a person’s “life span,” which is measured in terms of time?*Jesus was evidently picturing life as a journey. In effect, he taught that worrying will not help you to add even a small step to the walk of your life. Synopsis believes everything in the Bible is literal. I would love to see his justification for a CUBIT of lifespan added to one´s life...

Keep it simple, "remember that word, simple" , the better explanation is, it was Jesus walking in the Garden with Adam and Eve. And how on earth can someone hear a figurative sound of someone walking? :lol: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005806?q=god+the+mother&p=doc

3 hours ago, Markinsa said:

“I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afrad because I was naked; so I hid myself.”

I will conceded the point you make about Exodus 33:20, perhaps it was God the Father, and not God the Son, speaking with Moses? I can't explain that. :shrug:

Markinsa · October 7, 2017

6 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Um, he DID call out right? The walking is figurative. We walk with God if we obey his commandments. You walk with God I walk with God...but there ain´t no one actually walking with us. Just like when God gives his breathe. It is not real. 2 Chronicles 16:9 New International Version
For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. You have done a foolish thing, and from now on you will be at war."

I mean if he had eyeballs....they could not look over the entire earth. Figurative...Much like the walking is

8 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”

First they "Heard" him walking, they hid themselves because they "Heard" him, then the "Lord God called to the man" Three separate events.

I know what figurative means, and that passage ain't figurative. I know I shouldn't use ain't either, I just threw in there for color.

Markinsa · October 8, 2017

6 hours ago, Botzwana said:

So Adam and Eve should have raked the garden beforehand? Too many leaves that God was making too much noise walking on them? Oi vey...We will have to agree to disagree on this one for sure. Because everyone on the planet knows, If what you are saying is that God was Jesus....Jesus did not have his earthly body until he was in the womb of Mary. What you say contradicts the Bible. That he had an earthly body before when only two people existed on the Earth, then destroyed that body....THEN waited 2k years to be in the womb of Mary.

Now THAT is some mental biblical gymnastics if I ever heard em.

Sure, there is no way Your god could do that. Now my God can, because he doesn't fit in a box. Why is your heart so calloused that you cannot believe that God would want to come down to earth and have a personal relationship with his creation?

Markinsa · October 8, 2017

2 hours ago, Botzwana said:

He doesn´t have to have a body to have a personal relationship with his creation. Don´t we pray to God now? We do not see him. No man can. John 1:18 But True Christians and God have a relationship today. Remember Jesus said at John 20:29 ²⁹Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed;blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Not saying Jesus is God at all here. Just saying we do not have to see him to have a personal relationship with him. Romans 1:20 New International Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Funny how you skipped right over verse 28. Who was Thomas talking to? :lol:

John 20:28 (NASB)

²⁸Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 20:28 (AMP)

28 Thomas answered Him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 20:28 (NKJV)

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

.

Markinsa · October 8, 2017

@Botzwana You didn't answer my question.

Who was Thomas talking to? And if Jesus wasn't God, why didn't Jesus correct Thomas right there on the spot?

John 20:28 (NASB)

²⁸Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Markinsa · October 8, 2017

1 John 5:6-8 (NKJV)

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

1 John 5:6-8 (WYC)

6 This is Jesus Christ, that came by water and blood; not in water only, but in water and blood. And the Spirit is he that witnesseth, that Christ is [the] truth.
7 For three be, that give witnessing in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost [For three be, that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, or Son, and the Holy Ghost]; and these three be one.
8 And three be, that give witnessing in earth, the Spirit, water, and blood; and these three be one.

Markinsa · October 9, 2017

24 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Back on topic- Markinsa, Thomas was talking to Jesus. Are you taking context into account? Did Thomas JUST believe he was God just then? What was the context? He originally said that he would never believe Christ was resurrected by God until he had seen it with his own eyes. There he put his hands in the holes. It was like I said at an accident that may be horrific on the highway. How many of us said Oh my God! That did not make the car wreck a god did it? So Thomas was showing shock there, not a recognition that Jesus is God.

Certainly if Thomas erred and wasn't supposed to Worship Jesus as God he would have received a rebuke from Jesus himself. Such as what happened in Rev 22:8-9. But there was no rebuke from Jesus was there?

Revelation 22:8-9 (NASB)

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 But he *said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

Markinsa · October 9, 2017

48 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Hey Markinsa....If some cowards that refuse to debate put all my greens in the negative will I be sent to the lopster tank? To get 25 in one day by TWO people is ridiculous. I noticed Mr. Nope got sent there and he was not a lopster. He just didn´t believe the RV would be soon. So I will stop commenting if this is so. Because it is really not fair.

I just remember that the Bible does say that true christians would be persecuted. Having red negatives are a small part of that I suppose.

I believe -Negs are limited to 5 per day per person. So if you got 25 today, that would have to be more than 2 people, it'd have to be at least 5 people don't like what you're posting. Getting too many Negs can get you banned, supporting the LOP Theory, (RV ain't gonna happen) non-stop gets you thrown in the tank.

While it is true Christians are being persecuted, I don't think anyone is persecuting you for being a Christian, quite the opposite actually. :shrug:

Markinsa · October 9, 2017

33 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

We can continue this on a different forum if you want to. But I am not going to continue on here in this discussion only to rack up negatives for being a Christian. PM me if you want to.

No sir, I restrict my myself to only this Forum and Facebook. I cannot PM you because you are not a VIP member. I sincerely hope and pray that you find the truth. With that said, I'll leave you with this.

Truth and Unity

Jesus’ substitutionary atonement was accepted for one reason: God accepts only His own righteousness. The righteousness of a man or an angel is insufficient to hold up to the holy and perfect standard of God’s righteous law. Jesus was the only suitable sacrifice because He was the righteousness of God, and as God’s law required shed blood, Jesus took on flesh so that He might be a ransom for all who believe in His name.

Notice that if we understand Jesus to be God incarnate, then all the above verses can be understood to be true and mutually consistent in their claims. They can also be understood clearly with plain reason, taken at face value. However, if we attempt to suggest that Jesus is something less than God—Michael the archangel—then these verses are mutually exclusive and cannot both be true, when taken in their natural context. Therefore, the truth of God’s Word necessitates that we must come to another understanding in which all Scripture is unified, interconnected, interdependent, inerrant and true. That unifying truth can be found only in the person and deity of Jesus Christ. May we see the truth revealed in Scripture as it is, not as we would each have it to be, and may God receive all the glory.

If you have any questions about Jesus as God incarnate, please ask us. If you are ready to place your trust in this God incarnate Jesus, you can speak the following words to God: "Father God, I know that I am a sinner and am worthy of your wrath. I recognize and believe that Jesus is the only Savior, and that only by being God, could Jesus be the Savior. I place my trust in Jesus alone to save me. Father God, please forgive me, cleanse me, and change me. Thank you for your wonderful grace and mercy!

Click here for the source

Bumper64 · October 9, 2017

1 hour ago, Botzwana said:

See, I feel like Witnesses have the truth. I proved my case over and over. I am not bowing out of this debate because I think I lost. It is only because of ¨christian¨bullies. If we didn´t have the voting system here, I would discuss even furthur. I presented the scriptures as they are. None of them add up to a Godman. It is sad that discussion cannot go on freely about the Bible.

Hey Botzwana, don't get hung up on a few negative marks as you are at a +1,985 in the green so you are good so far!! Anytime religion is discussed on a forum you will have a wide verity of people that will both agree with you and disagree with your statements so you kinda need to accept that part . Like Markinsa stated to you earlier in this thread, being a Non-believer in this Investment and spewing negativity will get you put in the tank not talking about religion..... two different topics

Carry On

Bump

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