Breitling - Everyone Is Asking Me How The Dinar Is Going To Be Taxed And There Is A Huge Debate Out There !

[DinarThug]

CNN. Broadcasting While LGD And Umbertino Are Filling Out The Applications To Become A Guest Guru !

 

 

 

8-22-2017  Newshound Guru Breitling & Guest Guru Bob  Everyone is asking me how the dinar is going to be taxed and there is a huge debate out there.  

We’re not giving you tax strategy.  

We’ll talk about that later on down the road…

[Guest Guru Bob] When I first got into this thing a decade ago there was a lot of people pulling off of a pamphlet the IRS had put out in regards to those who were traveling across the world.  

Let’s say for example you bought a currency the British pound.  

You traveled over there and came back and went to cash it in.  For some reason there was an escalation in value.  

Well if that escalation was only up to $200 in gain you didn’t report anything but if it did gain over that timeframe it would go through capital gains.  

So a lot of people grabbed hold of that and said “ok this is how congress and the IRS has decided they are going to deal with the dinar.”  

And that is NOT true…

 

[DinarThug]

8-22-2017  Newshound Guru Breitling & Guest Guru Bob …You need to be acutely aware that the currency we are currently holding wasn’t used for travel.

It was bought distinctly and absolutely for one purpose and that was for an investment.  

And because it was treated that way and the way it is written in regards to currencies, it is not going to be treated as capital gains.  

I’ll say it one more time.  

It will NOT be treated as capital gains…

It is going to be treated as ordinary income.

Now what does that mean to you? ...

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by DinarThug

[DinarThug]

8-23-2017  Newshound Guru Breitling & Guest Guru Bob  …Ordinary income is going to be taxed at whatever rate you currently exist on or experience in that one year timeframe.  

If you’re in a lower tax bracket obviously your taxes are less.  

If you’re in the highest income bracket you’re hitting the maximum they have right now.  

When the dinar comes to fruition this is where YOU are in the driver’s seat.  

You get to decide for yourself what you’re going to do.  

Are you going to put that out there and cash it all in right now and expose yourself to the highest tax risk that there is?  

Are you going to do it very slowly and keep yourself down on that level of paid taxes?  

You get to decide all that…

The moment you walk out that bank after receiving that money in your hand you have created a taxable event.  That’s it.  

You’re going to be exposed to the highest tax rate that is in your bracket of income.  Period.  

There is no capital gains on this puppy.

 

[Xtaxguy]

Not so.  The code section you are talking about deals ONLY with BUSINESS transactions, which generally result in ordinary gains or losses, but provides for two exceptions:  business that designate certain transactions as "investments" will get the normal treatment of such results as capital gain or loss - that is simply extending the [asset] expenditure rule for general US business transactions in US dollars to those made in foreign currencies.  A common example is a real estate developer, who can acquire or build properties for sale (resulting in ordinary income or loss) or to hold for investment (generating ordinary income and deductions through rental operations and capital gain or loss upon sale of the property.  But most of us, with no PERSONALLY conducted active trade or business, let alone one in any way related to Iraq, don't even have to deal with the issue.  Currency gains or losses are treated the same way as the underlying asset, business or investment.  If you have no business involving IQD's, the asset is clearly an investment, whether it is dinar or ancient Iraqi artifacts or a plot of dirt in the green zone. 

 

The other exception is a de minimus  "comfort" provision thrown in so traveling business persons who are scared to death of the IRS will have guidance for reporting [or ignoring] small gains or losses on currency exchanges [i.e., pocket money] incident to their travel.  The only events I know of when this was perhaps more than trivial were the various sudden and unexpected collapses of a few foreign currencies such as Mexico's scam of the '70's, the Kuwait occupation, the Russian revolution, etc.  I was a CPA and took a fraud loss ordinary deduction for a business client who had some Mexican bonds that dropped by 90%.  There was an IRS audit, the group chief allowed it, but that is of absolutely zero value as a precedent.

 

However, I was a tax manager for a Fortune 100 public company with extensive overseas operations, incident to which I had to sort all foreign sourced assets, income, and deductions into their proper category of "investment" or "active trade or business" and calculate the currency gains or losses on each transaction [if any] arising from those two "pots" and the resulting ordinary or capital gain/loss taxes.  Every federal consolidated tax return and financial statement of that company was audited by large teams of high level IRS agents and senior Big 8 CPA's every year.  NO adjustments were ever made by any of them on this methodology except for a couple of minor clerical errors in the data entry. 

 

If you have a CPA or tax attorney who tells you to treat your IQD gains or losses as ordinary, and you have no actively conducted business in Iraq or that uses Dinar in the regular conduct of its business, there is only one thing you can do:  get a new CPA or tax attorney.  FYI, I have written on this topic in even greater detail several times in the past. 

 

If you want ZERO taxes, create a self directed Roth IRA.  Make max contributions to it.  Direct it to invest in a new LLC of which the IRA is the only member and you are the manager.  Have the LLC buy IQDs.  Sell when you want, but hold the US$ in the LLC until you are old enough (not a problem for most of us), then the LLC distributes whatever cash you want to the IRA which in turn distributes to YOU,  tax free.  Keep the US$ you don't need immediately in the LLC and have it invest in other stuff to earn more income that will not be taxed by the US or most States (CA being a notable exception - best to put your LLC in a State with no state income tax on LLCs).  There's a ton of details, some paper work, and sum expense in setting this up, and not everyone is eligible to do this (e.g., max contribution is a function of earned income, etc.), but if you are eligible  the whole deal should be in the $1 - 2,000 range, plus your contributions to the Roth IRA for investments.  Google for "Self-directed Roth IRAs" to find professional paper shufflers who might have their act together.  Use only those who have been around for 5+ years and have good genuine reviews.  If the IQD does rv to a rate anywhere near even 10% of what the pumpers foresee, your investment in setting up this mechanism will give you a much higher return (in saved taxes, even at low capital gain rates) than you will be getting from the IQDs themselves. 

[Xtaxguy]

I edited by post of a few minutes ago but the edited version would not post as I took a bit too long to finish it.  So I copied it and am pasting it here.  No substance change, just trying to make it a bit clearer:

 

Not so.  The code section you are talking about deals ONLY with ACTIVELY CONDUCTED TRADES OR BUSINESSES, the transactions of which generally result in ordinary income or loss, and but provides for two exceptions:  businesses that designate certain transactions as "investments" will get the normal treatment of such results as capital gain or loss - that is simply extending the [asset] expenditure rules for general US business transactions in US dollars to those made in foreign currencies.  A common example is a real estate developer, who can acquire or build properties for sale (resulting in ordinary income or loss) or to hold for investment (generating ordinary income and deductions through rental operations and capital gain or loss upon sale of the property.  Whether an asset is used in an active trade or business, or is a capital investment for the production of investment income, is an issue based on "all the relevant facts and circumstances" which gives CPAs and IRS agents ample ground for fee generating differences of opinion.  This section was primarily enacted to provide a clear prerequisite path of identifying the taxpayer's opinions as to the nature of its assets, so that any gains or losses from currency fluctuations will be taxed in the same manner as the underlying transaction, an issue that simply does not exist when all activities of a US business are done in US$.

 

But most of us, with no PERSONALLY conducted active trade or business, let alone one in any way related to Iraq, don't even have to deal with the issue.  Currency gains or losses are treated the same way as the underlying asset, business or investment.  If you have no business involving IQD's, the asset is clearly an investment, whether it is a pile of dinar, ancient Iraqi artifacts, or a plot of dirt in the green zone. 

 

The other exception is a de minimus  "comfort" provision thrown in so traveling business persons who are scared to death of the IRS will have guidance for reporting [or ignoring] small gains or losses on currency exchanges [i.e., pocket money] incident to their travel.  The only events I know of when this was perhaps more than trivial were the various sudden and unexpected collapses of a few foreign currencies such as Mexico's scam of the '70's, the Kuwait occupation, the Russian revolution, etc.  I was a CPA and took a fraud loss ordinary deduction for a business client who had some Mexican bonds that dropped by 90%.  There was an IRS audit, the group chief allowed it, but that is of absolutely zero value as a precedent - it turned on intentionally false representations made by the Mexican government just prior to the issuance of the bonds.

 

However, I was a tax manager for a Fortune 100 public company with extensive US and overseas operations, incident to which I had to sort all foreign related assets, income, and deductions into their proper category of "investment" or "active trade or business" and calculate the currency gains or losses on each transaction [if any] arising from those two "pots" and the resulting ordinary or capital gain/loss taxes.  Every federal consolidated tax return and financial statement of that company was audited by large teams of high level IRS agents and senior Big 8 CPA's every year.  In a ten year run of audits, NO adjustments were ever made by any of them on this methodology except for a couple of minor clerical errors in the data entry. 

 

If you have a CPA or tax attorney who tells you to treat your IQD gains or losses as ordinary, and you have no actively conducted business in Iraq or that uses Dinar in the regular conduct of its business, there is only one thing you can do:  get a new CPA or tax attorney.  And even if you do have such a business, I'd have a 99% confidence level in winning investment treatment on the pile of dinars under your bed!  Higher if you've never sold any of them.  FYI, I have written on this topic in even greater detail several times in the past. 

 

If you want ZERO taxes, create a self directed Roth IRA.  Make max contributions to it.  Direct it to invest in a new LLC of which the IRA is the only member and you are the manager.  Have the LLC buy IQDs.  Sell when you want, but hold the US$ in the LLC until you are old enough (not a problem for most of us), then the LLC distributes whatever cash you want to the IRA which in turn distributes to YOU,  tax free.  Keep the US$ you don't need immediately in the LLC and have it invest in other stuff to earn more income that will not be taxed by the US or most States (CA being a notable exception - best to put your LLC in a State with no state income tax on LLCs).  There's a ton of details, some paper work, and sum expense in setting this up, and not everyone is eligible to do this (e.g., max contribution is a function of earned income, etc.), but if you are eligible  the whole deal should be in the $1 - 2,000 range, plus your contributions to the Roth IRA for investments.  Google for "Self-directed Roth IRAs" to find professional paper shufflers who might have their act together.  Use only those who have been around for 5+ years and have good genuine reviews.  If the IQD does rv to a rate anywhere near even 10% of what the pumpers foresee, your investment in setting up this mechanism will give you a much higher return (in saved taxes, even at low capital gain rates) than you will be getting from the IQDs themselves. 

[Xtaxguy]

Just noticed that this post is in the "Dinar Rumors" forum.  Some of my previous posts are in the "Tax" form, and other also wound up in what ever forum the original writer picked.  This topic gets beaten to death, with a lot of bad info, cause many of the tax related posts not where one would go to read about tax effects: the "Tax matters" forum.

[md11fr8dawg]

Thanks X appreciated the info.

[Luigi1]

The Gurus have been wrong every single time with dates & rates.

They are also wrong with how we will be taxed with our investment.

We won't know until we actually file our taxes, post RV.

Just saying...don't count our chickens before they hatch.

[DinarDavo]

Thanks Xtaxguy.....appreciate your sharing.

[Tuck]

Thank you, Xtaxguy  

[MisterNope]

I'll deal with that when I get to it.

I'm not worried by a long shot and I don't think everyone should get wound up about it.

This is made-up arm-flapping drama meant to keep everyone emotionally engaged.

This discussion topic has been going on for YEARS.

 

Don't worry yourself about it!

It will all be very easy in the end.

[Shedagal]

Yep, this topic has been tossed around for years.  I would hope (too optimistic??) that the IRS is working/has worked on guidelines for such an event as this.  I know they say not as many people have dinar as we would think, but I still believe this would be a major event that would draw the attention of the IRS.

[DinarThug]

4 hours ago, Luigi1 said:

...don't count our chickens before they hatch.

 

Or In Luigi's Case - Don't Count Ur RayRat's Until They've Inbred ...

 

     

 

[Floridian]

 

"…You need to be acutely aware that the currency we are currently holding wasn’t used for travel. 

It was bought distinctly and absolutely for one purpose and that was for an investment.  

And because it was treated that way and the way it is written in regards to currencies, it is not going to be treated as capital gains." 

 

I thought an investment you buy and hold for at least a year is treated as long-term capital gains.  No?

Edited August 24, 2017 by Floridian

[Freedomwish]

Whew!!  Boy am I glad I've long made a choice and joined Adam's OSI package deal, and not have to worry about any of this - at all.  Nope! 

[fringe on lamps]

Yep! Me too!!!

[ChuckFinley]

IBC. 

[alreis]

13 minutes ago, ChuckFinley said:

IBC. 

Sweet.

[climber7]

2 hours ago, ChuckFinley said:

IBC. 

 

 

???

[ChuckFinley]

1 hour ago, climber7 said:

 

 

???

Check out OSI. Best thing happening.  

[Sage449]

  I recall this discussion from years ago - seems like it resurrects every so many - guess that's what happens when we've been around the block several times. No poke at the newbies asking!

Edited August 25, 2017 by Sage449
added

[Freedomwish]

14 hours ago, ChuckFinley said:

Check out OSI. Best thing happening.  

Preach it brother Chuck! 

19 hours ago, fringe on lamps said:

Yep! Me too!!!

[four wheel drift]

Just know the biggest outlaws with big money were taken down by the tax man.

Just sayin

FWD

GO RV

[sandfly]

ok

[MisterNope]

Don't even think about it, just shove it all into a trust.