[k98nights]

DFI will remain in NY Federal Reserve Bank beyond Dec. 2010 7/9/2010 10:48:00 PM

UNITED NATIONS, July 9 (KUNA) -- UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Friday said the Development for Iraq (DFI) will remain in the Federal Reserve Bank in New York beyond December 31 of this year with the same existing mechanism and arrangements, including payment of five percent of the oil revenues to the Compensation Fund.
In his second quarterly report to the UN Security Council on the issue since last year, Ban said "the Government of Iraq has received confirmation from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York of continuation of the existing mechanism in place for the DFI, to be effective after 31 December 2010." As a result, he added, a sub-account to compensate the victims of Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in August 1990 will be established to enable the Iraqi Government to continue to deposit five percent of its oil and natural gas proceeds in the Geneva-based Compensation Fund.
By its resolution 1483 of May 2003, the council transferred the authority to manage the expenditures from Iraq's oil revenue from the United Nations to the DFI, and created the International Advisory and Monitoring Board (IAMB) to monitor it.
By its resolution 1905 of December 2009, the council extended until 31 December 2010 the arrangements for depositing those proceeds into the DFI, and asked Baghdad to put in place arrangements to ensure a "timely and effective transition" to a post-DFI mechanism by 31 December 2010.
It also asked Ban to report every three months on the progress by Iraq in preparing for such arrangements and decided to review the provisions of resolution 1483 at the request of the Iraqi Government by mid 2010.
Starting January 2011, the IAMB will disappear and Ban said he is "encouraged" that Baghdad, in coordination with the Iraqi Committee of Financial Experts (COFE), will continue to select an independent international auditor to monitor the successor entity to the DFI.
Iraqi Ambassador to the UN Hamid Al-Bayati told KUNA earlier this week that beginning next year, the DFI will also carry another name, different from the one given to it by the council.
Ban commended Iraq in his report released today for its efforts to make the new arrangements and encouraged Baghdad to continue to meet the deadlines set in a letter by Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari to the council earlier this year for the successor entity for the DFI.
However, he expressed concern that "owing to certain administrative issues, there were delays in implementing the comprehensive oil-metering system.
"I urge the Government of Iraq to follow up on this issue and ensure that the implementation of the comprehensive oil-metering system continues as envisaged in the time-bound action plan presented to the Security Council," Ban said. He also recalled that the IAMB continues to highlight issues of concern regarding weaknesses in controls over oil extraction and in the spending ministries. Audit fieldwork is not yet complete, as a result of delays caused by recent bombings that affected a number of ministries.
On the oil-for-food program, which used to buy humanitarian goods for Iraqis with oil money, Ban said irrespective of the manner the council chooses to close it, the conclusion of all pending issues should be subject to the provision by the Government of Iraq of a comprehensive indemnity with regard to all activities of the Organization, its representatives and agents in connection with the program since its inception and with regard to the funds that have been transferred and will be transferred to the DFI.
Also, he added, the conclusion of the outstanding activities under the program should also be subject to the availability of sufficient funds for the Organization to meet the costs and expenses that have been incurred or may be incurred in future in connection with the program, including the ones associated with the winding down of the program and the ones arising from the cooperation of the Organization with Member States in respect of investigations and proceedings related to the program.
The report coincided with a New York Times article published today about how hundreds of millions of dollars in Iraqi crude oil and refined products are smuggled every year from Kurdistan region to Iran under the nose of the US and without authorization from Baghdad. (end) sj.hb KUNA 092248 Jul 10NNNN

http://www.kuna.net....906&Language=en

[Trimark]

A very interesting post with a lot of good info in it. Thanks for posting it.

[mariejose]

:blink:OK-- TELL ME IS THIS A BAD THING? AS FAR AS THE RV GOES.

[automag]

mariejose, on 09 July 2010 - 04:43 PM, said:

:blink:OK-- TELL ME IS THIS A BAD THING? AS FAR AS THE RV GOES.

No!! It's really not. The US will not allow any country to attack the monies held in the DFI or any of the seized assets the US is holding since the Gulf war. In effect it guarantees the money is protected from the creditors like the Kuwaitis who want their money and by continuing the provisions of the DFI and placing 5% in the fund the Kuwaitis are gonna have to abide by this and get paid off at the 5% rate. Like it or not thats what they are looking at. That money will still accrue interest and at whatever the rate is they can just pay the Kuwaitis off with earned monies rather than from the principle. May be thats a bit simplified but you get the gist. The fund is huge and as such it is more powerful as an earnings machine but the major reason is protect the fund from creditors.

Notice that the fund will be run by COFE...That is an Iranian committee that shows that even though they will be constrained on how spending from it happens it will be controlled by Iraqis and not the UN. The Secretary general even gave the Iraqis attaboys for coming up with this plan..This is just one more sign..IMO that chapter 7 is on the way out. This really just makes this money in the bank for the GOI and it can be manipulated for the benefit of the GOI...Did you notice where Ban Ki-Moon was worried about the accounting of how much oil was being counted and that there had been millions in missing oil....hmmmm. Well no problem for the Iraqis if that missing oil money ended up in the right places..wink wink. But if its being stolen then lets get those meters fixed. But that will be up to Iraq and that will be done only when the Iraqis want it done. That tells me that Iraq is gaining more control of its money and you can bet this ain't gonna hurt the RV.

[mariejose]

automag, on 09 July 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

No!! It's really not. The US will not allow any country to attack the monies held in the DFI or any of the seized assets the US is holding since the Gulf war. In effect it guarantees the money is protected from the creditors like the Kuwaitis who want their money and by continuing the provisions of the DFI and placing 5% in the fund the Kuwaitis are gonna have to abide by this and get paid off at the 5% rate. Like it or not thats what they are looking at. That money will still accrue interest and at whatever the rate is they can just pay the Kuwaitis off with earned monies rather than from the principle. May be thats a bit simplified but you get the gist. The fund is huge and as such it is more powerful as an earnings machine but the major reason is protect the fund from creditors.

Notice that the fund will be run by COFE...That is an Iranian committee that shows that even though they will be constrained on how spending from it happens it will be controlled by Iraqis and not the UN. The Secretary general even gave the Iraqis attaboys for coming up with this plan..This is just one more sign..IMO that chapter 7 is on the way out. This really just makes this money in the bank for the GOI and it can be manipulated for the benefit of the GOI...Did you notice where Ban Ki-Moon was worried about the accounting of how much oil was being counted and that there had been millions in missing oil....hmmmm. Well no problem for the Iraqis if that missing oil money ended up in the right places..wink wink. But if its being stolen then lets get those meters fixed. But that will be up to Iraq and that will be done only when the Iraqis want it done. That tells me that Iraq is gaining more control of its money and you can bet this ain't gonna hurt the RV.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT EXPLANATION AUTOMAG.

[automag]

mariejose, on 09 July 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT EXPLANATION AUTOMAG.

You are most welcome and I need to make a correction...I stated that COFE was an Iranian controlled committee and its really Iraqi...not Iranian...sorry for the error.

[drox]

UNSC resolution 1483

20. Decides that all export sales of petroleum, petroleum products, and
natural gas from Iraq following the date of the adoption of this resolution shall be
made consistent with prevailing international market best practices, to be audited by
independent public accountants reporting to the International Advisory and
Monitoring Board referred to in paragraph 12 above in order to ensure transparency,
and decides further that, except as provided in paragraph 21 below, all proceeds
from such sales shall be deposited into the Development Fund for Iraq until such
time as an internationally recognized, representative government of Iraq is properly
constituted;

21. Decides further that 5 per cent of the proceeds referred to in paragraph
20 above shall be deposited into the Compensation Fund established in accordance
with resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent relevant resolutions and that, unless an
internationally recognized, representative government of Iraq and the Governing
Council of the United Nations Compensation Commission, in the exercise of its
authority over methods of ensuring that payments are made into the Compensation
Fund, decide otherwise, this requirement shall be binding on a properly constituted,
internationally recognized, representative government of Iraq and any successor
thereto;

22. Noting the relevance of the establishment of an internationally
recognized, representative government of Iraq and the desirability of prompt
completion of the restructuring of Iraq’s debt as referred to in paragraph 15 above,
further decides that, until December 31, 2007, unless the Council decides otherwise,
petroleum, petroleum products, and natural gas originating in Iraq shall be immune,
until title passes to the initial purchaser from legal proceedings against them and not
be subject to any form of attachment, garnishment, or execution, and that all States
shall take any steps that may be necessary under their respective domestic legal
systems to assure this protection, and that proceeds and obligations arising from
sales thereof, as well as the Development Fund for Iraq, shall enjoy privileges and
immunities equivalent to those enjoyed by the United Nations except that the above mentioned
privileges and immunities will not apply with respect to any legal
proceeding in which recourse to such proceeds or obligations is necessary to satisfy
liability for damages assessed in connection with an ecological accident, including
an oil spill, that occurs after the date of adoption of this resolution;

Automag... great summation! I have some concerns though. This was a curveball to me because I thought it was imperative that they release the DFI funds in order to RV! I figured a fully representative government would have to be in place first, then they would be able to release the DFI to the GOI. I completely understand that they want the protection from creditors but 95% of the proceeds of the oil and gas exports goes into the fund and the other 5% goes to compensation fund. This is 95% of Iraqs GDP isn't it? Why wouldn't Iraq want that control? What good is a Chap 7 release without access to those oil proceeds? Someone group will still have say over where those funds will be distributed. Makes no sense to me except leverage to negotiate settlements with debtors. This seems like the opposite of what I wanted to see for an RV. Help me understand folks....

[Doc31]

Thanks for the post

[automag]

Normally I would be 100% in agreement and well actually I do agree with you. Everything you said is actually correct. What I think is going on is an interim program that will protect those funds. i don't think it is designed to merely protect those funds for an undetermined period of time... drox I am having to make a big leap here but as we have seen they are doing things in violation of chapter 7 such as buying tanks and F-16's and moving products in country like fertilizers and ammonium nitrate and chemicals for agriculture but they are doing this. If chapter 7 was strictly enforced then they wouldn't be able to do all of that. I read this and chalked it up to one more example of letting up on these guys without it being official..............So I think this is a way for the control of their GDP to be turned over to them without this money being automatically attacked by their creditors. I don't believe it will be a forever situation. But they have to have a chance to use that money and the UN is in a position to see to it the baby grows up and can protect itself.

The issue of these funds has been a great concern for the GOI. So much that they had the DFI extended for six months and then reviewed and extended again. They have the need of more time to make sure those funds aren't taken by creditors for Sadaams crimes. If all was done by the book Iraq would be broke and they need every break they can get to get up and running. If that money was taken by creditors then what would we see in Iraq....I don't think it would pretty and the UN will have failed as well as the US because at the end of their stewardship they would have failed. Our country has expended untold resources toward this effort and the UN has had this country in sanctions since the Gulf war. Twenty years of UN/US control can't be wasted or the world would see our country and the UN as paper tigers. That just cannot be the outcome of this. Rightfully the UN has obligations to other countries such as Kuwait and rightfully laws should be enforced to make Kuwait whole after being savaged by Sadaam. Even I think Iraq should be forced to do the right thing by Kuwait and not be let off the hook.....but and thats where the subject gets murky...at the but.

Stay with me drox. I am out on a limb here. I decided to handle this publicly instead of by PM because I consider this an open conversation and we have gotten into these discussions with great satisfaction as others here are willing to engage and bring forth their opinions for all of us to consider. I enjoy it really but this is a murky subject because there are going to be loose ends.

The DFI has bothered me because like you said why would they want their income controlled by the UN. Why extend the DFI and stay under their control. The only answer was debt protection. Thats all I could come up with. So the next question was how long would the DFI be used and what happens when eventually all that protection runs out when they emerge from chapter 7? I could not find anything that gave a me an answer. So I had to develop a theory because I cannot find any concrete answers yet there still remains the issue of losing the money once it loses it's UN protection. My theory is simply that the UN and US are gonna break the rules to get these people up and on their own. They already are breaking the rules towards other aspects of chapter 7 and what would be the difference if they do it with the DFI? Consider that the UN lifts chapter7 and the DFI is seized for debts or at the very least tied up in court by lawsuits. What does Iraq do then? Will an RV with no money or assets work. I don't think so. The DFI is a tangible asset. The seized assets are a tangible asset and I believe there are more funds within the seized assets than in the DFI. All that taken in account supports an RV. If that money was gone or tied up in litigation then Iraq is just s**t out of luck. Nothing they can do but fall apart. Money drox...They need money to do everything. Plus if the corporations were to be their only source of money for the rebuilding of their infrastructure then they would be at the mercy of every corporation and foreign government in the process and nobody can live with that reality. The new NDF project will take an estimated 5 years. It will take forever if the DFI and other assets are gone. We can't allow Iraq as a matter of policy be stripped of what assets they have but we also have to get them out of chapter7 to let then get going.

So what is a United Nations and mostly what is the US to do? How can they do the right thing by Kuwait if they allow Iraq to flounder because they are broke. What will happen to Iraq if they can't develop their resources because all their money just went out the door when they came out of chapter7? I can only imagine the chaos that would ensue. In fact think about all the what ifs if they are left to fend off everybody looking for their money? It gets really bleak. That cannot happen. Why did the Paris Club forgive 80% of Iraq's total debt. the Chinese joined in and virtually everybody let them off the hook for a myriad of reasons. The IMF, WB, all let these guys off the hook. Every nation in the world pretty much forgave them their debts except the Middle Eastern countries. But to them is it debt or is it leverage? I would suggest leverage. Money is one thing but having a capable debtor is like money in the bank. Plus looking at the politics and culture of the Middle eastern countries it is of no surprise that they didn't forgive Iraq. Sadaam was a real SOB and he terrorized these countries for decades strutting about and threating everyone of them with the fourth largest military in the world. Yes they proved no match for the US and Allies but they were a serious threat to their Middle Eastern neighbors forced to suffer his constant threats and intimidation. Honor? Well I don't think much of the Middle Eastern idea of honor but it is in play here. Even so.these guys are business minded and leverage and countries indebted to them is very good for business. So their debts will be paid but they can't be paid if they can't get up and running.

Iraq is poised to become very wealthy and very powerful both economically but more importantly militarily. The region needs a stable Iraq and they need a peaceful Iraq. Iran looms on the eastern shore like Mordor does in Middle Earth. The US built Sadaam as a proxy in opposition to Iran and that role is still needed. The rest of the Middle East desperately needs Iraq's muscle. They also need Iraq as a shining example of capitalism and Democracy to help tip the balance of power in Iran. The Iranians are a serious threat to world peace and Iraq IMO is the key. IMO Iraq and the RV and it's emergence from sanctions into the world as a peaceful nation is about a lot more than Iraq. It will also be used by Middle eastern countries to convince their populations that doing business with the US and the rest of the world can be good for them. Look at the US...they took out Sadaam and whacked the Iranians and look we all have extra camels and very good goats...Plus we have a Mercedes in the garage and we vacation in France on the French Riviera. See...The US isn't so bad!! The fact that Iraq was conquered by the US and then the US is leaving it has not been lost of the average Iraqi as described by some of our boots on the ground here on DV. That is a good example of American intentions.

The RV has got to be about more than Iraq because the line of thinking is that the RV will help realign world currencies. It will help relieve debt for many nations and it will also help reduce energy cost and relieve tight supplies issues with their emergence as a huge exporter of oil and gas. All of the efforts of revitalizing the Iraqi economy will help fundamentally change Iraq from centuries old habits to a new world market and a vibrant and exciting country. Plus everybody gets to make money helping rebuild a war torn nation that needs everything and I do mean everything. They need toilets and danish cookies and Ipods and Nintendos and Hyundais and Kawasaki 4 wheelers and ladies underwear... you name it they need it. Everybody makes money. I mean think about that country actually succeeding and becoming a working and peaceful democracy right smack dab next door to Iran and geographically right in the middle of the Middle East. Holy cow.!! But I guarantee that ain't never gonna happen if they emerge from chapter7 with no lunch money. Not one chance in hell. So whats the answer. I say cheat. I say the UN/US know they have to cheat and that is the only way it can work......Fudge on the rules. The funds have to remain intact till a solution can be constructed.

This country is full of crooked politicians that stand up on TV and cheat and lie their rear ends off. I can watch every bill passed in Congress and the Senate and if the politicians would just read the bills they pass they would see that they cheat everyday. Thats both parties not one or the other. Both parties. There hasn't been a politician in years write a bill without the help of lobbyist and both parties just sign off on what the lobby comes up with and that goes for both parties. I always laugh when one party or the other yells foul when they say well they signed off on a bill they never read. LOL....That would be the pot calling the kettle black. Example Democrats...Health Care....Republicans...Patriot Act. Period....They lie. Why not lie for Iraq. Oh wait its not lying. Its politics.. Forgive my bad manners. If we break the rules at home we will damned sure lie on behalf of Iraq and just to prove it consider that the seized funds from the Sadaam era will not be allowed to be seized by US law. Notice that COFE will be controlling the fund but it will be held in New York at the Federal Reserve. That cannot be a coincidence. Why not hold it in Baghdad at CBI? American law has to be the answer. Thats not being fair to Iraq's creditors is it? Nope and we don't care. We need Iraq to become what we want them to become and no amount of fairness is going to get in the way of US foreign policy or the common good of the entire world. That would the UN's bit. They need to show the world as well that they can handle a situation like Iraq and make Iraq better for all the UN's efforts. Otherwise the world will just laugh at the UN and the United States as impudent entities with no clue or real power. Plus we need to lie and work with Iraq for the good of the entire world... It may hurt today but it will feel better tomorrow.

drox? Do you see what I am saying here? If you can find anything concrete please show me because either I am way off in space here or just ignorant of what the objectives are. I actually think I am close to the mark but really I am having to throw in filler to close up the holes while developing some kind of plausible theory as to what are they doing with the DFI. It is no small matter The DFI does as you say represent their entire GDP and why would they restrict themselves from using it? Your questions are my own and I just can't find anything that says what about extensions and there effect of chapter7.....That is why all I can offer is my theory... I am afraid thats all I have for now.

I'm tired and my beer got hot again and It's your turn...Whatcha Think drox?? You have asked valid questions but where to get the answers still allude me. But as always my efforts will continue.....

[Trimark]

Wow! That was a really good, well thought out read automag.

I don't mean to butt in to your conversation with drox but for what it's worth I think your theory is right on. There is definitely something bigger at stake and I think you nailed it. Thanks for sharing. Really good stuff!

[automag]

Trimark, on 10 July 2010 - 03:23 AM, said:

Wow! That was a really good, well thought out read automag.

I don't mean to butt in to your conversation with drox but for what it's worth I think your theory is right on. There is definitely something bigger at stake and I think you nailed it. Thanks for sharing. Really good stuff!

Oh Heck no....Jump right on in. Thats why I risk all this long winded diatribe. People like you and drox and Lgraham and many many others have so much to offer in the effort to forward an intelligent conversation about all this. I love it so please jump right on in and get down with the thoughts you have. Trimark I always read your posts and value what you have to say. Besides that darn drox sent me an email and asked me about it and I always respond to him because he always ask me great questions. Problem is my beer always gets hot trying to answer.

Thanks for your support on this one and please if you can offer more info please do so cause I just have this nagging feeling I missing something somewhere......Nawwww...I absolutely correct... Yes I am...No I am not...Yes...No....I need a valium... ...actually two

[denbo420]

WOW AUTOMAG!!!!

I BELIEVE YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD.... THAT SUMMATION IS 5 STAR!!!! IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE AN MBA FROM HARVARD, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO HOOK YOU UP WITH 'AT LEAST' AND HONORARY DEGREE OR DOCTORATE!!!

EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS.... IT WILL DEFINITELY BRING CLARIFICATION BETWEEN THE EARS!!!

[TekMan]

WOW! Drinking beer at 3 and 4am. ............... I just don't see the UN or our Goverment being as smart as you Automag. Great post.

[drox]

Quote

Iraq is poised to become very wealthy and very powerful both economically but more importantly militarily. The region needs a stable Iraq and they need a peaceful Iraq. Iran looms on the eastern shore like Mordor does in Middle Earth.

Quote

They need toilets and danish cookies and Ipods and Nintendos and Hyundais and Kawasaki 4 wheelers and ladies underwear... you name it they need it.

Quote

Look at the US...they took out Sadaam and whacked the Iranians and look we all have extra camels and very good goats...Plus we have a Mercedes in the garage and we vacation in France on the French Riviera. See...The US isn't so bad!!

Dear Automag ( or should I say Frodo Baggins).... I think the beer didn't get warm at all. I think it was flowing just fine for you in the wee mornin' hours! :lol: That was a brilliant summation and was the Rolaid I was looking for. Haha! I posted a couple of my favorite quips above from your diatribe. Clearly we both subscribe to the long winded theory to get our points across. Only way to do it right?

I think you are spot-on! Those damn DFI funds are earmarked for something that we don't know about. Lgraham has done some diligent research and came up with some startling numbers. Of which I will post below. My thoughts were they were going to be used to help support the RV. After all, their is no greater humanitarian aid to the Iraqi citizens than to help their net worth go up and their costs of goods go down. The market will take care of the infrastructure redevelopment as investment is created from within. Kuwaiti's are a perfect example.

So... this article floored me because it was the opposite of what I was expecting. I agree that it is still a tangible asset although a protected one. It works like another arm of their federal reserves and sustains value and strength. It is entirely possible that that is the purpose. To maintain strength in the reserves in order to make the Dinar credible in the eyes of the international market. Albeit a policed and restricted one. It will be held in escrow until Iraq can pay their creditors back or the debts can be settled through negotiation. I am sure there are a few nations that are a little ticked off by this maneuver. Kuwait has been bull headed and I am sure their lack of cooperation in helping Iraq to get released from Chapter 7 forced Iraq and the UN to create this little "end around" loophole. Kind of like Parliament opening the first session but never closing it. I have said along that I don't believe the UN will do a full release of Chapter 7. That they will do about a 90% release and still hold some power to step back in and wield if necessary. They don't trust the sectarian politics even after they set the government and will not allow a civil war to ruin what we have all given so much to create. The oil metering systems are still not complete. That has a lot to do with this too I guarantee.

I agree that this is how politics work. Whether in our backyard or somewhere on the other side of the globe. It's a shell game. It will be interesting how this ends. You and I and few friends will have to rent a big boat down in Cabo with some cold beer and go Marlin fishing when this is all done. Trimark... you are welcome to join in this conversation as well as going after Marlin. Automag and I are always trying to spur intelligent discussion on these threads. We are all trying to solve this Rubik's cube.

Here was LGraham's post on Groovegals thread. I recommend the entire read on her chat at

http://dinarvets.com...ad/page__st__20


We know that the CBI has established between 46 and 50 billion dollars on their own.
Here is the data I found that states how much money is in the DFI account through 2008.
http://www.arabianbu...566025&Itemid=1
So now we know they they have 165 billion dollars as of 2008.
Here is the link from the KPMG audit of DFI through all of 2009
http://www.iamb.info...from%20KPMG.PDF
Page 11 shows us they have 37 billion dollars through 2009.
using the average of 2008 and 2009 because price per barrel was high in 08 and low in 09. This will give us an accurate projection for 2010. 50 billion would be the total for the entir year. so we use 25 billion for the year to date. Lets look now at the total assests in the foreign currency reserve account now.


CBI............total to date 50 billion
DFI account thru 08..... 165 billion
DFI account in 09 37 billion
DFI account 2010 25 billion

TOTAL 277 billion

How does this compare with other foreign curreny reserves? Well here you go. From the C.I.A. world fact book.

https://www.cia.gov/...r/2188rank.html

Can you say number 5.

Drox, all funds deposited into the DFI account are from export oil revenues. This deposit is made in dollars. Therefore they do not need to be converted to Iraqi dinars. None of these funds in the DFI account shows up on the CBI ledger just yet. But it will. As soon as the chapter 7 protections expire. This is why the U.N. wants an action plan to transition to when the protections expire.

I always believed that there would be even more money in this DFI account. I know that doc31 does as well. I don't know if that will make much of a difference now. With 680 billion dollars in construction projects coming by 2014. I have begun to believe that Iraq will prosper as a result of increasing the value of the dinar. Something I don't fully understand is....Why don't some of these other countries with huge foreign currency reserves and huge export sales i.e. Saudi and China have a higher value to their own currency?

Lgraham

[automag]

Oh my!! Well I think you might be right. I was knocking down a Corona or two thinking about all this and when I re-read my post I a well I apologize if it appears I was lecturing which it appears to be that way. Ha Ha. Awww man you know I like this stuff and I was thinking way out loud about it and yes indeed the long winded way is the only way....In fact there can be no other way for me as I am not nearly as eloquent as Mongo for stating the obvious. . Plus I usually clean up my post pretty good and I didn't seem to do that very well and I have a little bitty hang over...Yep those Coronas are all gone too.....sigh

I thank all for the nice remarks about my post and feel humbled by y'all saying so. I have always been a political hack but geo economics is new for me and really I am just trying to learn about that subject and learn about when I will be wealthy. When I first got in it all went by me like a blur and I can't stand walking around in the dark without a flashlight.. But to get the right kind of flashlight I had to build my own...So this why I get so wound up about this......I'd rather be on that boat chasing Marlin in Cabo....hint drox....If they let me back in there and don't remember the last time I was there... Thats why I quit drinking Tequila... well except for margaritas

OK !! It looks like we are on the same page here as we are looking in the same direction with regards to the DFI... All we can do at this point is guess. I think the truth of what is happening with the fund is being kept a secret as the RV itself. Details are available but the why is gonna be suppressed and that is understandable. Will that help us RV? Yeah it might!! Time will tell.

Frodo!!!! Right now I kinda feel like Boromir....I want that ring!!! Hahaha....Thanks drox

[Trimark]

Thanks guys for the kind words and invitation. Count me in for Cabo ... or Vegas ... or wherever.

There's some really great info in this thread and I thank you both for it.

I agree that this is a Rubik's cube with the difference being we don't know what the pictures on each side are supposed to look like. Frustrating and fun at the same time.

I also think that the RV - although a life changer for most of us - is just a small step in the furtherance of the main overall goal.

A while back automag I believe you brought out the comparison between the Marshall Plan to this Iraqi Plan. The Marshall Plan's purpose was to rebuild Europe and create an economically stronger Europe which would then lead to increased stability throughout the region.

That seems to be what the US wants too with Iraq and is going about it using some of the same steps the Marshall Plan used.

One thing the Marshall Plan used was counterpart funds. Here's a blurb about them from Wikipedia:

Quote

Also established were counterpart funds, which used Marshall Plan aid to establish funds in the local currency. According to ECA rules 60% of these funds had to be invested in industry. This was prominent in Germany, where these government-administered funds played a crucial role in lending money to private enterprises which would spend the money rebuilding. These funds played a central role in the reindustrialization of Germany. In 1949–50, for instance, 40% of the investment in the German coal industry was by these funds.

The companies were obligated to repay the loans to the government, and the money would then be lent out to another group of businesses. This process has continued to this day in the guise of the state owned bank.

The Special Fund, then supervised by the Federal Economics Ministry, was worth over DM 10 billion in 1971. In 1997 it was worth DM 23 billion. Through the revolving loan system, the Fund had by the end of 1995 made low-interest loans to German citizens amounting to around DM 140 billion. The other 40% of the counterpart funds were used to pay down the debt, stabilize the currency, or invest in non-industrial projects.

Could the DFI be used the same way? What if it's used as a fund to loan the money the reconstruction requires? It's kept separate from creditors but allows Iraq to use the money to rebuild their infrastructure, get private enterprise in Iraq up and going, etc. and loan out the massive amounts of money that such a rebuild will require?

The money can't be gotten to by creditors and it will allow Iraq to not use any of it's foreign reserves to pay for the reconstruction which in turn will strengthen Iraq's currency even more and lessen the chance of Iraq getting in to economic trouble. Instead it will increase economic stability and at a much faster pace.

Maybe? Sometimes I get so lost in all of this stuff I don't know if what I think actually makes sense or I'm just going around in circles.

[automag]

You know Trimark that seems as logical an approach as any...I forgot about the Marshall Plan but that is exactly what they did. There was no way the UN was gonna let Nazi Germany rise again the way it did to begin with. The League of Nations led by the French just crushed the life out of post war, (WWI), Germany and the UN did it just the opposite and yeah that should be done right here with Iraq.

If that money is used that way then of course it would act as the source of funding for the reconstruction of Iraq and if history repeats itself as it usually does think of the possibilities. Just at look at Germany today and consider what Iraq could become.

Excellent thought there Trimark. In fact when I consider this it seems to be exactly what the Doctor ordered. LGraham's numbers indicated 277 billion in funds with all numbers included and Medic came up with roughly 500 billion. Either way those are encouraging numbers for doing exactly what the Marshall Plan did. If you are catching fish using worms why change the bait. Using the Marshall Plan as a road map would the best idea I have considered so far. It just completely eluded me for some reason and I thank you for bringing it up as it helps me find that warm and fuzzy place I need to be to have a reasonable answer as to what they are up too with that money.

See Trimark. That's why I want you to join in the conversation. It's why the more who do join in the better because this is such a vast subject no one person can think of it all. I saw milliondollar babes thoughts on this in the rumor section and she seems to be in line with out thoughts on it and she is from outside this forum so that bodes well we are at least seeing things in a similar fashion.

You know the irony of this situation is not lost on me. I was particularly disturbed to find while studying Sadaam that he was quite the admirer of Adolph Hitler... Makes sense as they both were meglomaniacs and in fact the parallels are quite astonishing between the two men. If thats what you want to call them. They were equally disgusting and of course they were vanquished. But it doesn't bode well that we have the rise of a second maniac in the fashion of a Hitler. The fact is as a child I was told to be aware that what happened in Germany could happen again and it actually did happen in Iraq. That the same ideas to clean up Hitlers mess would be used again on Iraq where one of his disciples came to life is Ironic to say the least. However what has also not been lost on me is that we once thought no way a Hitler could rise again and since it has already happened in Iraq we all need to be aware that it will probably happen again and we had better keep our eyes and our minds open to that very real possibility....Just a thought.

[breatheasy]

Automag, Drox, & Trimark - you guys ROCK!!
I really love being a member of this site!!!!