Phase One of Obamacare Repeal and Replace is Over...

[Whatshername]

So much to talk about... rumors of the incompetent Paul Ryan being ousted, democrats celebrating their failed law's collapse, and a back-to-the-drawing-board chance to get it right!

Phase One of Obamacare repeal and replace is over

By Thomas Lifson

 

Don't worry: congressional Republicans all understand the world of hurt they are in for if they ask their supporters to re-elect them without having repealed Obamacare.  There is going to be major health care reform, but working out the details turns out to be (surprise!) complicated, and turning over the new plan to Paul Ryan was a mistake, as was the strategy of narrowly tailoring the law to reconciliation with 51 Senate votes.

Meanwhile, tax reform can't wait.  That is how we get the economy moving and improve people's lives before they vote in November 2018.  

Donald Trump knows that you always have to be prepared to walk away from the deal, or in the current case, the House vote.  The need to make a deal, any deal, hands leverage to the other side.  He said so in The Art of the Deal, and besides, every competent negotiator knows it.  

Now, both caucuses of the House and both parties need to face up to the slow-motion collapse of Obamacare, as premiums continue to soar and insurers vanish from entire state markets.  There will be sob stories aplenty.

Democrats just could not help themselves, rejoicing on camera over the humiliation of the Republicans.  They are celebrating the disaster that will unfold, and those clips will live on in GOP video ads.  They reiterated their continuing ownership of Obamacare with this celebration.

If the GOP plays it smart, a continuing campaign highlighting the disasters of Obamacare, complete with victims, would lead up to a real plan for reform resting on a systemic, not incremental change, and market forces replacing entire bureaucracies.  Radical simplicity can replace the byzantine system of third-party payers and regulations – universal catastrophic care combined with medical savings accounts to pay for routine expenses, for instance.  For poor people, let the government put in a thousand dollars per year; that's cheaper than what we have now.

If not this approach, find other ways of getting money to people who can make their own decisions on what to buy in the way of medical care, and let the vendors compete openly on price and other factors.

Force the Democrats to tell the American people that this plan is not for them.  Especially if there is the prospect of a thousand bucks a year landing in their account that they get to spend, Americans just might like an approach that puts the power in their own hands.

[Whatshername]

MARK LEVIN: Trump's Comments On Health Care Were OUTSTANDING! "He's Playing Long Ball"

 

 

[Jaxinjersey]

Thank you, WHN, for providing the REAL perspective, highlighted by the True Premise of the "failure" issue...

"Donald Trump knows that you always have to be prepared to walk away from the deal, or in the current case, the House vote.  The need to make a deal, any deal, hands leverage to the other side.  He said so in The Art of the Deal, and besides, every competent negotiator knows it." 

 

 

[Shabibilicious]

The GOP's been trying to kill the ACA for years and has failed at every turn......Why would we expect a different outcome this time around?    Too many chiefs, not enough indians, so to speak.

GO RV, then BV

Edited March 27, 2017 by Shabibilicious

[pattyangel]

What sad is that left wing Democrats do not want to change or fix this Obamacare, they're so ignorant that they can't even see it exploding right before their eyes. 

[Shabibilicious]

8 minutes ago, pattyangel said:

What sad is that left wing Democrats do not want to change or fix this Obamacare, they're so ignorant that they can't even see it exploding right before their eyes. 

There's plenty of blame to go around, Dems included.  But let's be real here......Republicans have the majority numbers by a MILE.  They don't need one Democrat to side with them to repeal and replace the ACA.  Epic GOP Fail, plain and simple.

GO RV, then BV

[coorslite21]

18 minutes ago, pattyangel said:

What sad is that left wing Democrats do not want to change or fix this Obamacare, they're so ignorant that they can't even see it exploding right before their eyes. 

Yes and many even ran for office on a reform Obamacare platform.  It irritates me that 8 years ago one side was making these decisions all by themselves....no support.....and now just the opposite is happening........what a bunch of babies..

Additionally, why not get the 10 most qualified, and knowledgeble house or senate members from each party....10 top health care professionals ant 10 top hospital adminstrators and let them work out a bill that works for everyone.  

Lock them up and don't let them out until they have some type of common sense solution.....

Edited March 27, 2017 by coorslite21

[RV ME]

The Republicans sent a clean repeal bill to Obummer 6 times. But when they had the chance to replace their words with actions that would actually be enacted, they unveiled Ryancare which even Ryan admits does not repeal Obummercare. The Freedom Caucus stood true to their principles and refused to support the Republican polyticks government healthcare. 

I say, good for them. Obummercare, Ryancare, Trumpcare.... Whatever you want to call it, it's government involvement in healthcare, where they have no business being. Inevitably there can be only 1 of 2 results. Either it is repealed and the government overreach is ended, or it will end up single payer with the government overlords determining your medical decisions and payments. 

[pattyangel]

10 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

There's plenty of blame to go around, Dems included.  But let's be real here......Republicans have the majority numbers by a MILE.  They don't need one Democrat to side with them to repeal and replace the ACA.  Epic GOP Fail, plain and simple.

GO RV, then BV

Well Shabs the American people wouldn't be in this mess, if only they read the Bill in the first place.  They past this Bill so fast, they didn't care about what the people wanted.  Now we have Americans not only without jobs, without doubt no healthcare. The premiums unbelievable have sky rocketed  They wanted to penalize the people who didn't have healthcare, in reality these individuals were hurting for income, how and the hell did they expect to pay a fee for no healthcare too.  This is one of the most dangerous Bill ever, and disastrous by the numbers.   

[pattyangel]

12 minutes ago, RV ME said:

Whatever you want to call it, it's government involvement in healthcare, where they have no business being.

Agreed 100%, but I feel that this will never happen in our era. 

[Shabibilicious]

7 minutes ago, pattyangel said:

Well Shabs the American people wouldn't be in this mess, if only they read the Bill in the first place.  They past this Bill so fast, they didn't care about what the people wanted.  Now we have Americans not only without jobs, without doubt no healthcare. The premiums unbelievable have sky rocketed  They wanted to penalize the people who didn't have healthcare, in reality these individuals were hurting for income, how and the hell did they expect to pay a fee for no healthcare too.  This is one of the most dangerous Bill ever, and disastrous by the numbers.   

And I won't disagree with your assessment completely.  But it must be pointed out that many Americans seem to still benefit from ACA or their particular congressman would have been all over repealing it.  So you have to ask yourself, now that ACA is the law of the land and being used, how can it just be ripped away, rather than coming to terms on it's survival and the steps necessary to "improve" it?  Realistically, I believe "fixing" it is a pipe dream.  We should all focus on remedying the problem and not waste valuable time on why we have a problem in the first place.  That's simply counterproductive.  As always, just my opinion.

GO RV, then BV

[RV ME]

42 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

There's plenty of blame to go around, Dems included.  But let's be real here......Republicans have the majority numbers by a MILE.  They don't need one Democrat to side with them to repeal and replace the ACA.  Epic GOP Fail, plain and simple.

GO RV, then BV

I agree it was a Republican failure to repeal Obummercare.  But I would have considered the passage of Ryancare a bigger failure.

[pattyangel]

15 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

I believe "fixing" it is a pipe dream.  We should all focus on remedying the problem and not waste valuable time on why we have a problem in the first place.  That's simply counterproductive.  

GO RV, then BV

I believe that is what is trying to be done, unfortunately the leftist is in all out war with not cooperating.  We're seeing it happening now.

As far has having the problem in the first place has a lot to do with why we are where we are... all part of the disastrous equation.  You can't take away part of the equation, before you understand why we have this problem.  Tip your hat off to Pelosi for this event.   

[Shabibilicious]

1 hour ago, pattyangel said:

  Tip your hat off to Pelosi for this event.   

Trumpcare will come to fruition.....it's merely a matter of negative attention and time. 

GO RV, then BV

[Whatshername]

Monkey Trap... just let go.

Trump knows when to let go.  And he's probably right that politically, it's better to let the 100% democrat-owned obummercare die a painful death.  It will get worse before it gets better but we will get rid of it and return to a free market system.  First, we have to drain more of the swamp... starting with the RINOs!

[Shabibilicious]

12 minutes ago, Whatshername said:

 

Trump knows when to let go.  And he's probably right that politically, it's better to let the 100% democrat-owned obummercare die a painful death.  It will get worse before it gets better but we will get rid of it and return to a free market system.  First, we have to drain more of the swamp... starting with the RINOs!

It appears to be his only option.....he couldn't seal the deal.  And the people being crushed financially won't soon forget he couldn't keep his campaign promise.

GO RV, then BV

[Whatshername]

7 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

It appears to be his only option.....he couldn't seal the deal.  And the people being crushed financially won't soon forget he couldn't keep his campaign promise.

GO RV, then BV

Ryan couldn't seal the deal.  No one trusts him and he needs to go.  But if you think Trump supporters hold Trump responsibile, think again!  He hasn't even been president for 3 months.  He WILL keep this promise... all in good time!

[Jaxinjersey]

Details, details, details... all irrelevant.

The only thing we need to understand is that the ACA is unconstitutional... an illegal law thrust upon 100% of the citizenry, benefiting some, harming others...

Any way you parse it, it is unconstitutional...

If it benefits 100 people, but harms 1000... it is unconstitutional.

If it benefits 1000 people, but harms 100... it is unconstitutional.

If it benefits 1 person, but harms 1 person... it is unconstitutional.

... and so on!

How do I know this?  Because I am one of the harmed.  It is unconstitutional to me.  It is destroying my life, at the shameless "benefit" of others.

The Constitution defaults to Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights, which are simply a byproduct of freedom.  

Case closed.

The repeal must occur, in order to get back to how it was before... a free market.  THEN, address the free market aspects in order to improve health care.

 

[Jim1cor13]

I was surprised to read the other week the same trick was mentioned about

"you will have to pass it to know what is in it" type of nonsense. Trump would do

well to rid himself of the likes of Ryan, and there are many I think who are mis-directing

him on several issues, those who have his ear.

 

I am glad this "bill" was pulled, he did the right thing, but it should have been pulled sooner in my opinion.

Jax, you are right, it is unconstitutional, all of it...BUT the government WANTS to control the medical

system and all of it will likely go to single payer, which was the goal with ACA. It really is about control

but sold otherwise. Even in a free market, cost of insurance will not go down much at all...the benchmark

keeps rising, and so will insurance. At some point, we ALL will be priced out of it other than those who sit

in DC who have the best insurance and perks, of course at the expense of the people.

[Jaxinjersey]

1 minute ago, Jim1cor13 said:

I was surprised to read the other week the same trick was mentioned about

"you will have to pass it to know what is in it" type of nonsense. Trump would do

well to rid himself of the likes of Ryan, and there are many I think who are mis-directing

him on several issues, those who have his ear.

 

I am glad this "bill" was pulled, he did the right thing, but it should have been pulled sooner in my opinion.

Jax, you are right, it is unconstitutional, all of it...BUT the government WANTS to control the medical

system and all of it will likely go to single payer, which was the goal with ACA. It really is about control

but sold otherwise. Even in a free market, cost of insurance will not go down much at all...the benchmark

keeps rising, and so will insurance. At some point, we ALL will be priced out of it other than those who sit

in DC who have the best insurance and perks, of course at the expense of the people.

Yes, Jim... you and I, and a lot of others know this... but THAT is the true message that needs to be propagated.  Most people are distracted by the false premise.

I'll have to disagree about the free market aspect.  The bench mark has only risen BECAUSE of government involvement.  The premium costs could easily go back down to pre-ACA, if not further with free-market improvements...

My policy was affordable, adjustable, and manageable pre-ACA, at under $300/mo.  I cannot afford the ACA mandated policy of today, at $700/mo.

[bostonangler]

Funny, I was at a cookout this weekend and some were for and some against ACA. Those against, mainly had healthcare through their employer and those for were more mixed. What struck me, was in many cases those with healthcare through their employers were paying about the same or even more than those on ACA. No one. Not one person stated they were paying anywhere near $700 per month... Just an observation, I thought I would pass along.

 

B/A

[Jaxinjersey]

2 hours ago, bostonangler said:

Funny, I was at a cookout this weekend and some were for and some against ACA. Those against, mainly had healthcare through their employer and those for were more mixed. What struck me, was in many cases those with healthcare through their employers were paying about the same or even more than those on ACA. No one. Not one person stated they were paying anywhere near $700 per month... Just an observation, I thought I would pass along.

 

B/A

Thanks for your observation, B/A.  Regardless of what anyone's anecdotal perspective may conjure... the overall ACA is unconstitutional, as I have already proven.

I alone, am proof enough... but I also know my situation and experience is shared by many thousands across the country.

So, it doesn't matter who is for, or against.  If just one person is harmed... it is unconstitutional...

If we keep our "arguments" focused on that premise alone... the "solution(s)" would be more honest and forthcoming.  All the rest is distraction, by design... as Jim noted.

[pattyangel]

3 hours ago, bostonangler said:

Funny, I was at a cookout this weekend and some were for and some against ACA. Those against, mainly had healthcare through their employer and those for were more mixed. What struck me, was in many cases those with healthcare through their employers were paying about the same or even more than those on ACA. No one. Not one person stated they were paying anywhere near $700 per month... Just an observation, I thought I would pass along.

 

B/A

So your little cookout pretty much painted a clear picture of all Americans....hmmm. 

No matter how much you were paying before, with ACA it has increase double in cost, some individuals even more. Either way when you don't have it. and have to make lifestyle changes, like a 2nd job just to have medical coverage, is not what the American people were hoping for with ACA is outrageous.  The ones that are happy with it are the ones that are freeloading.  The government has no business in our healthcare.   

[RV ME]

6 hours ago, bostonangler said:

Funny, I was at a cookout this weekend and some were for and some against ACA. Those against, mainly had healthcare through their employer and those for were more mixed. What struck me, was in many cases those with healthcare through their employers were paying about the same or even more than those on ACA. No one. Not one person stated they were paying anywhere near $700 per month... Just an observation, I thought I would pass along.

 

B/A

Interesting take BA, but as Jax pointed out, quite anecdotal.  Not surprising that those getting subsidies would be happy with their Obummercare, and those who get their insurance from work would notice little difference between now and pre-Obummercare.  Did you ask any of them if they know what their out of pocket cost will be before their “insurance” kicks in?  Did you talk to any of their employers, you know, the one’s that are actually paying the bills for their employees insurance?  Maybe ask if their hiring processes have been altered because of this intrusive law?  I know in my business, the costs have been astronomical to keep some semblance of the insurance we offered pre-ACA.  Did you talk to anyone who is working part time jobs because they cannot get hired full time because of the current law?  How about any doctors regarding the costs they have to incur to comply with the law?  Liberals / progressives are well known for saying that the government should stay out of their bedrooms, so why is it that you don’t care if the government is in your doctor’s office?  More intimate than your bedroom if you ask me.

The progressives / liberals have successfully framed the argument in the terms of “health care insurance”, but the tentacles of Obummercare go much deeper than that.  As Jax pointed out, it is (and should have been ruled) unconstitutional.  By what right does the government use to help some while hurting a larger number of others?  You said before that you blame Nixon for the problems in the economy, presumably for taking us off the gold standard.  But I blame FDR and Johnson.  They were the Presidents who cemented the “entitlement” mindset above all others.  Tell me, how has that Social Security program worked out after all these years.  Answer, it is so bad the politicks will not even include the "obligation" in the national debt (makes a thinking person wonder if they really are going to live up to their promise).  And how did Johnson’s war on poverty work out?  More poverty now even after billions of dollars taken form some and given to others, but Johnson was correct when he said “I’ll have those n*****s voting Democrat for 100 years.”

I do believe we should help those that truly cannot help themselves, but not so much for those who choose not to help themselves.  My objection to Obummercare is not because I am against “health care for all”.  It is my core belief in the founding principles of this great Country and the Constitution on which it was codified.  The further we get away from those founding principles, the more we become just another failed country in the ash heap of history.  It won’t be long before “the shot heard around the world” will be considered just another bump in the night.

[RV ME]

19 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

Realistically, I believe "fixing" it is a pipe dream.  We should all focus on remedying the problem and not waste valuable time on why we have a problem in the first place.  That's simply counterproductive.  As always, just my opinion.

GO RV, then BV

As Spock would say, “Highly illogical.”  A problem cannot be remedied if it is not acknowledged and confronted.  If not, it’s kind of like treating a skin rash and ignoring the cancer causing the rash.  As you treat the symptoms, the underlying disease continues to destroy the patient.