Jehovah's Witnesses charity drops attempts to block abuse inquiry

[umbertino]

Watch Tower’s legal challenges have held up UK investigation into alleged sexual abuse for more than two years

Alice Ross

Monday 23 January 2017 11.14 GMT

• 
  The charity commission is investigating claims that Jehovah’s Witnesses abuse survivors were forced to face their attackers.

  Photograph: Fairfax Media/Getty Images

   

  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/23/jehovahs-witnesses-charity-drops-attempts-to-block-abuse-inquiry

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

And now some

CHRISTIANITY SHAMING, too...

wow, umbertino

you're on a real kommie roll today !

[Shedagal]

Have y'all been watching the A&E expose of the Church of Scientology by Leah Remini?  Wow, talk about eye-opening.  What I think is so sad about all this is that many who come out of that oppressive cult will be leery of being open to the true things of God. 

[Shabibilicious]

The only church my wife and I ever attended that didn't ultimately end up being all about money was the little church on base.....when I was in the military.  Army chaplains are the cat's meow.    Department of the Army funded probably....funds weren't an issue.  

GO RV, then BV

Edited January 23, 2017 by Shabibilicious

[Shedagal]

29 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

The only church my wife and I ever attended that didn't ultimately end up being all about money was the little church on base.....when I was in the military.  Army chaplains are the cat's meow.    Department of the Army funded probably....funds weren't an issue.  

GO RV, then BV

Money is a tool - the church uses money (tithes and offerings) to fund the operating costs of the church and soul-winning efforts.  Tithes and offerings are also God's designed way of getting provision to you (seed, time, and harvest).  The Bible says the "love of money" is evil, not money itself.  If you get offended over churches talking about money, it may be you who has the issue.  The Bible also says God loves a cheerful giver.  My church talks about money and teaches about God's desire for us to be prosperous so that we can show the love of God to the world.

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

Well, SHABS, after you left The Military --- ho'bummer went after those very worthy Military Chaplains and pulled the rug out from under them.

Can't speak of God, can't give Blessings, can't say The Blessing,

can't have The Bible on the table set for our Loved Ones Gone, no Last Rites in Combat,

no Confession in Foxholes, before deployment, or before a Mission.....on and on....

That's right, HO'bummer the satanic demon seed built that. 

You lefties must be so proud  of all but eradicating Christianity from our Military...

where it's needed and deserved most and where, by the way -- there are NO athiests in foxholes.

 

But hey, if you are a terrorist who infiltrated our Military under DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL and later open up with weapons on a US Military Installation and

murdered and maimed Americans, it's just "workplace violence"... because HIS "religion" had to be respected..

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by SgtFuryUSCZ

[pokerplayer]

1 hour ago, SgtFuryUSCZ said:

Well, SHABS, after you left The Military --- ho'bummer went after those very worthy Military Chaplains and pulled the rug out from under them.

Can't speak of God, can't give Blessings, can't say The Blessing,

can't have The Bible on the table set for our Loved Ones Gone, no Last Rites in Combat,

no Confession in Foxholes, before deployment, or before a Mission.....on and on....

That's right, HO'bummer the satanic demon seed built that. 

You lefties must be so proud  of all but eradicating Christianity from our Military...

where it's needed and deserved most and where, by the way -- there are NO athiests in foxholes.

 

But hey, if you are a terrorist who infiltrated our Military under DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL and later open up with weapons on a US Military Installation and

murdered and maimed Americans, it's just "workplace violence"...

 

Well said gal's and 100 % bang on.

pp

[Shedagal]

I expect those policies to be corrected forthright, Gals!!

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

7 minutes ago, Shedagal said:

I expect those policies to be corrected forthright, Gals!!

From God's heart - to your fingertips on your key board - to our eyes -- to The President's heart -- from The President's heart, to his EO Pen !

Putting that in Grace at Dinner and Lighting a candle for that this very night !

 

[DWitte]

8 hours ago, SgtFuryUSCZ said:

Well, SHABS, after you left The Military --- ho'bummer went after those very worthy Military Chaplains and pulled the rug out from under them.

Can't speak of God, can't give Blessings, can't say The Blessing,

can't have The Bible on the table set for our Loved Ones Gone, no Last Rites in Combat,

no Confession in Foxholes, before deployment, or before a Mission.....on and on....

That's right, HO'bummer the satanic demon seed built that. 

You lefties must be so proud  of all but eradicating Christianity from our Military...

where it's needed and deserved most and where, by the way -- there are NO athiests in foxholes.

 

But hey, if you are a terrorist who infiltrated our Military under DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL and later open up with weapons on a US Military Installation and

murdered and maimed Americans, it's just "workplace violence"... because HIS "religion" had to be respected..

 

My first question, is this really true?  But after reading a little further, I see that it must be.  Poker player verifies your post immediately after you posted it.  How shameful of a US President to say and do such things.  Our Country/Nation is built/founded on the principle of God, whether one likes it or not.  I may not believe in last rites but I would never ever ever deny another something they deemed so important to their salvation and especially so when it has absolutely no impact on other people.  And these same people try to say Trump is an illegitimate President.  I feel the exact same way about Obama and I am not afraid to say it.  The difference is that I acknowledged that Obama was the President whether I liked it or not, without protesting on some stupid principle like Michael Moore had.  Disgusting.  Nuff said for now.

 

Thanks for the enlightenment Sarge(es Gals).

I think I like my new moniker for you two.  Hope you do also.

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

Remember, DWITTE -- part of the globalist elite's plan to take US down (SEE: 'Rules for Radicals" )

is to remove GOD and religion from the equation.  Classic standard move on their part, actually.

[Fly]

On 1/23/2017 at 0:48 PM, Botzwana said:

I was a JW for 18 years.  They hide too much from you.  Thanks to the internet the stuff they tried to hide has resurfaced.  Thanks to Raymond Franz for having the balls to write two books about them that exposed the underbelly.  Without him perhaps none of this would have ever come to light.

 

Tried to post several photos but all were rejected. 

 

When you became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses (baptized publisher) wasn't that a dedication between you and Jehovah? And through Jehovah’s organization, did not the elders help you appreciate not only the privilege of being one of his Witnesses but the responsibility of your dedication to Jehovah, did not the elders and the person who studied with you, make sure you understood clearly every one of the 83 questions– answered by you from the heart?

http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/2013/06/if-member-of-governing-body-leaves-does.html Ray Franz

On 1/23/2017 at 9:51 PM, Botzwana said:

Here is a topic.  The beard ban.  For the Christians on this board...Does your church force you to shave off any traces of facial hair?  The Witnesses say you are rebellious if you have a beard or goatee.  NOT in the bible mind you of course.  But a brother can lose his position as a teacher or any other responsibilities he may have in the organization if he decides to have one.

What I don´t get is the original founder had one.  He brought many into Bible knowledge.  Jesus had a beard most likely. 

Heck God MADE facial hair to grow on a man´s face!  He even said to the Israelites that it was a shame to a man to shave his beard off.

 

So what do other churches say?  Fly is a current member of Jehovah´s Witnesses.  I would like to see him defend this non scriptural thing.

Because you have become inactive in your dedication to Jehovah seeking perhaps for whatever reason, a means of justifying your choice?  

Jehovah's Witnesses - Are Wearing Beards Discouraged?

It may be noticeable that the wearing of beards by Jehovah's Witnesses in certain territories is not common. Thus, some have made the incorrect conclusion that the wearing of beards is forbidden if you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jehovah's Witnesses understand that there is nothing in the Bible that says that wearing a beard displeases God or Christ. In fact, during Jesus' time on earth it was customary to wear beards. Christians came first from a Jewish background, and Jewish men wore beards. Beards were a sign of maturity, wisdom, and piety.

Like all other Jews, Jesus was under obligation to keep the whole law. One of the commandments of the Law was: “You must not cut your side locks short around, and you must not destroy the extremity of your beard.” (Lev. 19:27) God doubtless gave Israel this law because among some pagans it was the practice to cut the beard in a certain fashion in worship of their gods. (Jer. 9:26; 25:23) Nevertheless, that law did not mean that a beard was not to be well kept, for in the Near East a well-groomed beard was considered a symbol of dignity and respectability. (2 Sam. 19:24)

Today however, Jehovah's Witnesses, like the early Christians, are concerned with neatness and cleanness, and they strive to dress inconspicuously so that their appearance does not in any way detract from the dignity or the effectiveness of the message they bear. (2 Cor. 6:3, 4) In recent years in many lands a beard or long hair on a man attracts immediate notice and may, in the minds of the majority, classify such a person undesirably with extremists or as rebels against society. God’s ministers want to avoid making any impression that would take attention away from their ministry or hinder anyone from listening to the truth. They know that people are watching true Christians very critically and that to a great extent they judge the entire congregation and the good news by the minister’s appearance as a representative of the congregation.

Local congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses must weigh community sensibilities in determining whether a man with a beard would tend to cause apprehension in the area. Like the apostle Paul, Jehovah's Witnesses certainly have a tradition of yielding their personal preferences "for the sake of the good news". (1 Corinthians 9:19-23) Modern Christian men might reflect on the principle first-century Christian men set who might have preferred to keep their foreskins (with similar justifications), yet yielded to circumcision once they understood that uncircumcision might be an obstacle to those who would hear "the good news". (Acts 16:1-3)

 Doubtless the early Christians followed the custom of the time and locality in which they lived, with regard to the wearing of a beard. The Roman custom was beardlessness. Romans converted to Christianity would very likely continue in the Roman custom, while converts from the Jewish community would continue in the Jewish custom of wearing a beard.

 Today Christian ministers, like the early Christians, are concerned with neatness and cleanness, but they strive to dress inconspicuously, so that their appearance does not in any way detract from the dignity or the effectiveness of the message they bear. (2 Cor. 6:3, 4) In recent years in many lands a beard or long hair on a man attracts immediate notice and may, in the minds of the majority, classify such a person undesirably with extremists or as rebels against society. God’s ministers want to avoid making any impression that would take attention away from their ministry or hinder anyone from listening to the truth. They know that people are watching true Christians very critically and that to a great extent they judge the entire congregation and the good news by the minister’s appearance as a representative of the congregation.

In paradise restored on earth it would not be out of order if men returned to wearing beards, in perfect fashion, like Adam in Eden.

 

Jesus, born a Jew, “came to be under law” and he fulfilled the Law. (Gal. 4:4; Matt. 5:17) This was in order that he might pave the way for the abolishing of the Law and for release of the Jews from the curse of the Law, the condemnation of death that it brought against them. (Eph. 2:15; Gal. 3:13) Like all other Jews, Jesus was under obligation to keep the whole law. One of the commandments of the Law was: “You must not cut your side locks short around, and you must not destroy the extremity of your beard.” (Lev. 19:27) God doubtless gave Israel this law because among some pagans it was the practice to cut the beard in a certain fashion in worship of their gods. (Jer. 9:26; 25:23) Nevertheless, that law did not mean that a beard was not to be well kept, for in the Near East a well-groomed beard was considered a symbol of dignity and respectability.—2 Sam. 19:24.

During extreme grief, shame or humiliation, one might pluck hairs from his beard or leave the beard or the mustache untended. (Ezra 9:3) In several prophetic statements, the shaving off of the beard was used figuratively to illustrate great mourning because of calamity. (Isa. 7:20; 15:2; Jer. 48:37; Ezek. 5:1) Significantly, a prophecy concerning Jesus’ suffering states: “My back I gave to the strikers, and my cheeks to those plucking off the hair.” (Isa. 50:6) Hanun the king of Ammon grossly insulted the ambassadors kindly sent by David by cutting off half of their beards. Because of their great humiliation, David told these men to dwell in Jericho until their beards grew abundantly. This act of Hanun was, of course, aimed at David as an insult, and provoked war.—2 Sam. 10:1-8; 1 Chron. 19:1-7.

The Israelites were to make “fringed edges upon the skirts of their garments” and to “put a blue string above the fringed edge of the skirt.” Why? So that they would remember Jehovah’s commandments, obey them, and “prove to be holy” to their God. (Numbers 15:38-40) As Jehovah’s present-day servants, we stand out as different from the world because we observe divine laws and principles. For instance, we maintain moral cleanness, we respect the sanctity of blood, and we avoid idolatry of all sorts. (Acts 15:28, 29) Many respect us for our firm determination to keep ourselves undefiled.—James 1:27.

Like the Israelites were recognized by a blue string above the fringed edge of the skirt and wearing of the beard, modern day spiritual Israelites (Jehovah’s Witnesses) are recognized by maintaining moral and spiritual cleanness and by not wearing the beard simply to stand out as different.

No one has ever been forced to cut off their beard or, not able to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or, disassociated because of simply having or growing a beard, it is not a serious issue, truth is, many Jehovah’s Witnesses have beards.

With all that said there is nothing here to defend you are free to simply come or go, by choice..!  

Isaiah 55:6

[Fly]

Really Umbertino theses are your facts?

It’s becoming more and more apparent mainstream religion forcing its debauchery as humanly unavoidable so excitable in spirit, although the purpose that has already become manifest, is in spreading doubt that any religious group is able of being pure in the spirit God.

So keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons, making the best use of your time, because the days are wicked. On this account stop being unreasonable, but keep perceiving what the will of Jehovah is. (Ephesians 5:15-17)

For those that would really like to know, The Facts.  http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/default.html

[Fly]

On 2/23/2017 at 11:50 PM, Botzwana said:

Fly,  you are using a strawman that just because one leaves Jehovah´s Witnesses, that means they are not Christian anymore.  Why do you question if I left God simply because I do not go to the Kingdom hall anymore?

You are the one saying this; only to insinuate this is my meaning, I never made or imply such a comment. Neither do I have the authority to make such a comment! I will leave I link at the end here to a very interesting study article ‘Loyally Supporting Christ Brothers’  understanding why people will be judged as either sheep or goats?

Your statement; "Jehovah's Witnesses they hide too much." prompted the questions I asked that you ignored, to show clearly, otherwise. I believe you know this, first off, in the form of a question you state; "force you to shave off any trace of facial hair?" Then you make reference to someone else that was removed as a ministerial servant for having a beard. Just because someone no longer qualifies to be a ministerial servant, does not mean that that brother is being punished, nor defiled or force to shave his facial hair as you first hopped would be believed. Truth is Jehovah's organization never forced anyone to serve the creator Jehovah God―Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7)
 
Before I go on I would like to make a scriptural point because Raymond Franz has passed away, and no longer with us... his past life here is no longer a concern to him or is it of concern to God, my choice is to respect that, for the wages sin pays his death. Although Raymond Franz the man, now only exists in Jehovah's memory, (which is the safest place for anyone to be) “as the remembrance of him (his past life not the man) has been forgotten”... we are all descendants from Adams seed, God considered Adam dead at the time of his disobedience. Although by means of Jesus' perfect human death provides mankind hope by means of the resurrection―”but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
 

Effects of Sin. Sin put man out of harmony with his Creator. It thereby damaged not only his relations with God but also his relations with the rest of God’s creation, including damage to man’s own self, to his mind, heart, and body. It brought consequences of enormous evil upon the human race.

The conduct of the human pair immediately revealed this disharmony. Their covering portions of their divinely made bodies and thereafter their attempting to hide themselves from God were clear evidences of the alienation that had taken place within their minds and hearts. (Ge 3:7, 8) Sin thus caused them to feel guilt, anxiety, insecurity, shame. This illustrates the point made by the apostle at Romans 2:15, that God’s law was ‘written on man’s heart’; hence a violation of that law now produced an internal upheaval within man, his conscience accusing him of wrongdoing. In effect, man had a built-in lie detector that made impossible his concealing his sinful state from his Creator; and God, responding to the man’s excuse for his changed attitude toward his heavenly Father, promptly inquired: “From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?”—Ge 3:9-11.

Jehovah had warned Adam and Eve that if they were disobedient and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, they would die “in the day” of their eating. (Genesis 2:17) True to his word, Jehovah called them to account on the very day of their sinning and pronounced the sentence of death. From God’s standpoint, Adam and Eve died that day. To carry out his purpose regarding the earth, however, Jehovah allowed them to produce a family before they died physically. Nevertheless, since God can view 1,000 years as one day, when Adam’s life ended at 930 years, it was within one “day.” (2 Peter 3:8; Genesis 5:3-5) Thus Jehovah’s truthfulness was upheld as to when punishment would be executed, and his purpose for the earth was not thwarted by their deaths. But for a time, imperfect people, including wicked ones, have been allowed to live.

To be true to himself, as well as for the good of the rest of his universal family, Jehovah God could not countenance such a sinful course, on the part of either his human creatures or the spirit son turned rebel. Maintaining his holiness, he justly imposed the sentence of death on them all. The human pair were then expelled from God’s garden in Eden, hence cut off from access to that other tree designated by God as “the tree of life.”—Ge 3:14-24.

Condition of the Dead. Yes, the dead are lifeless, unable to hear, see, speak, or think. For example, the Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished.” The Bible also states: “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [the grave], the place to which you are going.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.

According to God’s Word, while people are alive, they are aware of death. When death occurs, however, they are aware of nothing. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:4, 5)

Does that mean there is absolutely no hope for the dead? Martha, whose brother, Lazarus, had just died, believed in the resurrection, for she said of Lazarus: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:24) To this, Jesus answered: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25, 26) Earlier, he had said: “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” But notice, Jesus made no mention of an immortal soul!—John 5:28, 29; Luke 23:43.

Contrary to common faults belief– this period of time will actually be taking place on earth and is what Martha was referring; “I know he will rise in the resurrections on the last day.” when the dead will be resurrected and reunited with loved ones on a earth restored to a paradise condition, it is this paradise condition that the resurrected will be taught God's Commandments, those who choose to obey then, have a resurrection of life; those choose to disobey God's Commandments at this time, there’s will be a resurrection of judgment; not worthy of everlasting life, so the opposite of life, death, or actually nonexistent which is the state they were in before creation, because death will be done away with. Re 21:3,4―With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

 

Of course, that “last day” will not be a day of twenty-four hours. It will be a time period of 1,000 years in length. It will coincide with the 1,000 years of Christ’s reign.—2 Pet. 3:8; Rev. 20:4, 6.

That “day” will be a glorious one, for it will be marked by the wiping out of all the effects of the death that we all inherited from Adam and Eve because of the sentence of death that was pronounced upon them. So the 1,000-year reign of Christ is something to which we should all look forward, because in 1 Corinthians 15:25, 26 it is written: “For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death [inherited by us from Adam] is to be brought to nothing.”

 

 

This is the only information I could find on Raymond Franz's disfellowshiping that is not information provided by Raymond Franz himself or others siding his side of the story. And by the way; eating with someone that has been disfellowshiped is a conscious matter, not an act for disfellowshiping. Consider believing marriage mates or another family member living in the household. The more there is for people not have a true understanding of why things are done certain ways, the more wrong conclusions there are be negativity drawn upon.

It reads: I have a family member who was at Bethel for 20 years, and served with Fredrick Franz, Raymond's close relative.

The details of Raymond Franz' apostasy are largely confidential, as Jehovah's Witnesses do not reveal confidential judicial matters. But his apostasy became well known in NYC and to many within the headquarters organization, with him taking the lead in trying to undermine the faith of other Jehovah's Witnesses with his unscriptural teachings and disrupting the wholesome work taking place at the world headquarters. Many like him has come and gone, and there will be more.

But the Jehovah's witnesses keep moving ahead with incredible success in furthering Kingdom interests all around the earth.

Such ones as Raymond Franz accomplished nothing with regard to forming any sizable following, or helping people around the earth to learn about Jehovah and his wonderful purposes, something that over 8,340,982 Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide are doing now in 240 lands, 882 Languages!

 

 

 

When you read; Jehovah's Witnesses do not reveal confidential judicial matters, which could be a good time for running away with wrong conclusions… The Watcher Bible and Tract Society are not going to publish material of private nature between Jehovah’s Witnesses & Raymond Franz, exposing confidential information of one’s life!

 

 

Raymond Franz’s literature and web pages is where many congregate to reverberate misconceptions, negativity and half truths to promote and maintain a dislike for a gathering of people working hard, to do the best they can to fulfill the bible’s prophecy found at Matt 24:14―And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come...       

 

 

Clearly Botzwana you show some exposure to true bible knowledge, obvious as well someone or something has upset and perhaps hurt you, unfortunately compromising spiritual growth.

I'm not trying to call you out here; I’m only hoping to help you see there is a more positive path leading to personal spiritual growth. “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.” (Matt 5:3)  

‘Loyally Supporting Christ Brothers’ http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015207

Edited February 26, 2017 by Fly

[Fly]

41 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

No one has upset me and no one has hurt me.  IT is the manmade teachings.  Nothing more.

 Sorry Botzwana, I know you capable of find the answers you request.

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Folks I just figured it out. I now understand why Umbertino post crap like this. Umbertino thinks of this site like Facebook or YouTube, the more views that one gets for their post the better. And Umbertino thinks that by stirring up the pot, so to speak, he/she is someone special. It's really sad that anyone needs the internet to think of themselves as special but that is Umbertinos only reason for doing what he/she does.