What would it cost to Revalue the dinar.

[SocalDinar]

My main concern and question with the dinar RV is how or why Iraq would or could do this.

 

We all  know that fiat money is currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, but is not backed by a physical commodity. The value is derived from the relationship between supply and demand rather than the value of the material that the money is made of.

 

We also can safely Assume that the US does not have the Gold to cover it's M2 which is approx 12,287 Trillion US dollars. which would be approx 200.000 metric tonnes of gold. The worlds total supply of gold is approx 180,000 metric tonnes.

There is no way possible as there is not that much Gold . We can thank President Nixon for this.

 

So how does Iraq compare with this and what are the numbers for a Revaluation. These are the numbers on the CBI's website. They could be different if they are being manipulated but it's really all we have to go by.

 

Iraq's reported M2 is 81,865 trillion dinars worth about $69,585,Billion US dollars.

 

1 cent RV = $ 695,850 Billion         Approx.   $ 700 Billion USD

10 cent RV = $ 6,958,500 Billion    Approx.     $ 7 Trillion USD

$1.00 RV = $ 69,585,000 Billion     Approx     $ 70 Trillion USD

$3.00 RV = $ 208,755.775 Billion   Approx    $ 209 trillion USD

 

So if we are to believe Iraq will revalue it's Fiat currency to $3.00 the total M-2 value would be approximately  $209 trillion US dollars.

That's a lot of zeroes. Approximately $ 7 Million US dollars worth for every Iraqi citizen compared to the US's fiat currency which equals about $50,000 per citizen

 

So How can this happen.??  I am no economist but surely fractional banking can not be the answer.

I know it's easy to label someone a lopster but it is not so easy to answer this question.

 

So can someone please explain to me without calling people names or slamming those that ask these questions how or why?  I am asking because i do not have the answer and. I don't claim to know much about world banking. These numbers just do not make sense to me. This is just my opinion and that's not worth much as far as these matters go. I am just a C-10 Contractor not a banker.

 

Like i said i am no accountant so my numbers may be wrong and any help would be appreciated.

Edited December 18, 2015 by SocalDinar

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

***///

 

We figure the global / central banksters want Iraq.  

ALL the M.E. to be precise, like they want the rest of the world.

And they're willing to lure them in any 'ol way to get it.

 

If it means loosening their own greedy little purse strings short-term to see it happen, they will,

as they anticipate the end game reward for them will be beyond measure.

 

If we can catch part of that at the end of that kite tail, goody, goody gumdrops for US.

(which is why we're inclined to believe it'll be a narrow, short-lived window of opportunity for the layperson.)

Just a guess.... we, like most everyone else, don't truly know.

[DWitte]

Is this M2 number with 4 billion notes or 1 bil?  That could change the number significantly.

 

Hey ladies, I seem to be following you around this morning.  So, Good Morning.

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

Is this M2 number with 4 billion notes or 1 bil?  That could change the number significantly.

 

Hey ladies, I seem to be following you around this morning.  So, Good Morning.

***///

Backatcha!, ya handsome, hairy monstrosity !   

[new york kevin]

DWitte: Helloooooo Clairese!

Good and legit question. It's not purely a lopsters Q either. Thank you Sgt for your feedback as long. Hope someone can articulate a good answer to this question cuz I cannot. Merry Christmas to everyone.

[SocalDinar]

Is this M2 number with 4 billion notes or 1 bil?  That could change the number significantly.

 

Hey ladies, I seem to be following you around this morning.  So, Good Morning.

The statistics do not specify the note count. We can only speculate but IMO a dinar is a dinar and i makes no matter what denomination the notes are .

 

Their definition of M2 is

 

Money Supply (M2)  MonthlyReported by Research & Statistics Department (as at the end of the month,in billions of Dinar) from the monthly regulatory reports of all commercial banks.

Currency in Circulation outside of banks (see 4.a above  ) Deposits in Commercial Banks, excluding central government deposits, interbank accounts, and accounts of a current nature.Weekly: Reported by Research and Statistics Department as at the end of every Thursday. Currency in Circulation outside of banks is currency put into circulation as reported weekly by Issuing Dept. less dinar cash in vaults of banks as reported by banks in the “Monthly Reserve Calculation Period Report of Deposits and Vault Cash” .

Deposits in Commercial Banks , excluding central government deposits, interbank accounts, and accounts of a current nature as reported by banks in the “Monthly Reserve Calculation Period Report of

Deposits and Vault Cash”. http://cbi.iq/documents/Key_Financial_Indicators_Documentation.pdf

 

The M1 and M2 numbers are at this link    http://cbi.iq/index.php?pid=Statistics

and then click on Key financial indicators and their Excel spreadsheet will open

 

Shows M1 at 64,952 Billion dinars or approx 65 Trillion dinars

[caz1104]

My guess this is why many have divested themselves....and rightfully so. This question has been asked countless times(here at DV) with differing responses(look thru archives).

I am vested in many ventures and I tell my fellow partners in crime, if the numbers don't match your expectations or you have second thoughts by all means save your sanity and sell out. I have and sometimes it was a wise decision, othertimes I later found out I made a mistake. You gotta feel comfortable and at peace with whatever decision you make.

Edited December 18, 2015 by caz1104

[Shedagal]

This would be a good topic for TrinityeXchange.  Haven't heard from him in a while.  I agree, Caz, with your statement that you have to be comfortable and at peace with your decision.  We were watching a repeat of Downton Abbey last night, and the cook Mrs. Patmore said about her financial decision, "It's a beer thing, and I know how to drink it." I love it!   If you can't handle the champagne drama, be comfortable with beer.

[EverCurious452]

As you point out SD this question has been posed many times, but its never been answered.  All folks says "can so happen".  Not shall we say entirely convincing.  Belarus is doing a 10,000:1 LOP http://www.currency-iso.org/en/shared/amendments/iso-4217-amendment.html, why didn't they RV 10,000:1 instead?   For the same reason Iraq can not RV, they don't have the money to back it, neither does the entire world (as you point out).  The money supply of the entire planet is only about 50T USD wroth.

[easyrider]

My guess this is why many have divested themselves....and rightfully so. This question has been asked countless times(here at DV) with differing responses(look thru archives).

I am vested in many ventures and I tell my fellow partners in crime, if the numbers don't match your expectations or you have second thoughts by all means save your sanity and sell out. I have and sometimes it was a wise decision, othertimes I later found out I made a mistake. You gotta feel comfortable and at peace with whatever decision you make.

agreed this question has been asked by former lopsters in the past and well none of us are certified economists or Central bankers to give a solid answer.  In the end no matter what people think they know as far as economics go and what they think Iraq wil do its all speculation...So not quite sure what Socal is looking for because i doubt he wil find it anywhere on the net.

[caz1104]

Easy - 100% agree

Shedagal - LOL!!!! Love it

[rockfl9]

The CBI says the dinar is worth .00086 +/- of a USD. But it isn't buying ANY except from an Iraqi certified bank, and ONLY as much as it needs for the day. If it said the dinar was worth a penny it wouldn't matter unless you could find someone that would pay that amount i.e. The greater fool theory. For a higher exchange rate to have any value you must see the CBI BUYING dinar from outside the border.

The USD is valued at a dollar not because the UST/FED say it is , but because most people believe it is ...

[Markinsa]

I don't have the financials in front of me but the majority of the CBI's M2 is in Foreign Deposits which would drasticallly cut the increase in M2 if an RV were to occur.

[The Machine]

It could happen in my opinion, countries spend a lot of money on more frivolous things than their own currency reforms 

 

another way I look a it is not in current terms ........ 

 

think about this, for a few decades now and probably well into the future our wealth has been flowing from west to east.

 

the US and Europe are headed into a massive recession if not depression very soon .......... so if the dinar is released from its dollar peg which would happen if the dollar tanked the dinar could be a reserve of your economic wealth.

 

think if the dollar went into hyper inflation  ......... $1 could equal 1 dinar easily. 

 

now think how many dinar you have compared to how many dollars you have.

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

***///

MACHINE math.  

[EverCurious452]

I don't have the financials in front of me but the majority of the CBI's M2 is in Foreign Deposits which would drasticallly cut the increase in M2 if an RV were to occur.

Using data from a year or more ago (but likely roughly the same now )

M0 - 35T IQD, physical cash

M1 - 72T IQD so M1-M0=37T in checking and savings or other "on demand" accounts

M2 - 82T IQD so M2-M1=10T in bonds or CDs or instruments which have terms that make it disadvantageous or impossible to cash out early.

[SocalDinar]

It could happen in my opinion, countries spend a lot of money on more frivolous things than their own currency reforms 

another way I look a it is not in current terms ........ 

think about this, for a few decades now and probably well into the future our wealth has been flowing from west to east.

the US and Europe are headed into a massive recession if not depression very soon .......... so if the dinar is released from its dollar peg which would happen if the dollar tanked the dinar could be a reserve of your economic wealth.

think if the dollar went into hyper inflation  ......... $1 could equal 1 dinar easily. 

now think how many dinar you have compared to how many dollars you have.

Not sure how soon this will happen machine but it's inevitable . Every Fiat Currency fails eventually including seashells. And like you I want to be holding something a bit more tangible than paper ( including dinar ).

I have to admit it sure feels nice holding gold and silver in ones hands. I have to admit I play with it sometimes LOL. But knowing i have at least 6 months of food and supplies for my family and I makes me feel pretty good too.  And lets not forget about tradables like Alcohol  and other items people will trade for. Marijuana is another great tradable here in California. Plenty of ammo should be on ones list but if it really gets that bad all you need is one round. Enough of that It's to easy to get side tracked with that subject  LOL

 

I wanted to thank everyone for their responses. I am not throwing in the towel but  I talked quite a few friends and family into buying dinar. They ask me often about whats going on with their investment.   They do not research the dinar but they do watch the news and Iraq is making headlines.  I guess what I'm looking for is something to tell them that makes some sense to me.  I sure don't feel comfortable telling  them that there is a worldwide currency conspiracy and the  the illuminate are to blame. That would makes as much sense to me as a Flat earth.

 

I'm Still hoping on a 250% return on my dinar. And if I make nothing so be it. as Doris Day once sang Que sera sera

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by SocalDinar

[freeroy]

I posed this question some time ago, but never received an answer.

How can they sell, on auction, 176,000,000 for about 151000 (176,000,000 divide by 1166) and then RV even at .o1 cent and have to pay 1,750,000 for what they only received (at the auction) 151,000. ??????? Where am I so drunk, it don't make any sense (And I quit drinking when I was 19.)

[Markinsa]

Using data from a year or more ago (but likely roughly the same now )

M0 - 35T IQD, physical cash

M1 - 72T IQD so M1-M0=37T in checking and savings or other "on demand" accounts

M2 - 82T IQD so M2-M1=10T in bonds or CDs or instruments which have terms that make it disadvantageous or impossible to cash out early.

 

Go to Page 21 Iraq had 104 Trillion Dinar in Foreign Assets at the end of 2014.  These assets should be in the Foreign Countries' currency, which is restated using the Exchange Rate at the end of 2014.  For instance, if Iraq is showing 1,166,000 Dinar on deposit at a US Bank.  That would mean they actually have $1,000.00 on deposit.  If there was an RV 1:1, that $1,000 would be reduced from 1,166,000 Dinar to 1,000 Dinar.  So when people talk about how Iraq is going to handle their M2 situation, they are not taking into account the large percentage of M2 invested overseas.

 

.

[SocalDinar]

Thanks Markinsa

Evened out your unwarranted negative someone must have given you by accident

[Markinsa]

Thanks Markinsa

Evened out your unwarranted negative someone must have given you by accident

 

WOW, They got you too.  Truth hurts I guess.

 

.

[EverCurious452]

Go to Page 21 Iraq had 104 Trillion Dinar in Foreign Assets at the end of 2014.  These assets should be in the Foreign Countries' currency, which is restated using the Exchange Rate at the end of 2014.  For instance, if Iraq is showing 1,166,000 Dinar on deposit at a US Bank.  That would mean they actually have $1,000.00 on deposit.  If there was an RV 1:1, that $1,000 would be reduced from 1,166,000 Dinar to 1,000 Dinar.  So when people talk about how Iraq is going to handle their M2 situation, they are not taking into account the large percentage of M2 invested overseas.

Hey Makrinas,

  The 104T IQD figure includes foreign assets of commercial banks (look at page 19), but the commercial banks assets are not used to back the Dinar since when the commercial bank does exchanges, they are going to take those IQD and exchange them with the CBI (at the auctions) to replenish their assets.  Its only the foreign reserves at the CBI that count towards backing the IQD.

 

But in any case the Iraqi money supply is only composed of IQD.  So in your example, the foreign asset figures would indeed go down if the exchange rate were to go up, since those assets are expressed in IQD even though the actual asset is in some

foreign currency (like USD).  Only IQD or things denominated in IQD (not just expressed in IQD) are part of the Iraqi money supply so the change in how a foreign asset (at the CBI or a commercial bank) is expressed after an exchange rate change, does not decrease M2 since that foreign asset is not part of the money supply.

 

Thanks for approving my posts :-) 

[Markinsa]

Hey Makrinas,

  The 104T IQD figure includes foreign assets of commercial banks (look at page 19), but the commercial banks assets are not used to back the Dinar since when the commercial bank does exchanges, they are going to take those IQD and exchange them with the CBI (at the auctions) to replenish their assets.  Its only the foreign reserves at the CBI that count towards backing the IQD.

 

But in any case the Iraqi money supply is only composed of IQD.  So in your example, the foreign asset figures would indeed go down if the exchange rate were to go up, since those assets are expressed in IQD even though the actual asset is in some

foreign currency (like USD).  Only IQD or things denominated in IQD (not just expressed in IQD) are part of the Iraqi money supply so the change in how a foreign asset (at the CBI or a commercial bank) is expressed after an exchange rate change, does not decrease M2 since that foreign asset is not part of the money supply.

 

Thanks for approving my posts :-) 

 

See Table 16 - Monetary Base ( M0 ) Developments  page 43 

 

Notice how

 

M0 = a- Currency outside banks + b- Bank reserves ( 1+2 ) 

M0 = a - Net Foreign Assets of CBI +  b - Net Domestic Assets of CBI

[Seabee]

My real question is, will the IQD ever revalue and if so when? I have been holding my for so long that I may be dead by the time it happens. So does anyone think they might have a simple answer to this?

[reveldog]

My real question is, will the IQD ever revalue and if so when? I have been holding my for so long that I may be dead by the time it happens. So does anyone think they might have a simple answer to this?

SOON!!!!!