[k98nights]

Monday, May 24, 2010; 12:45 PM

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki sat down with The Washington Post's Leila Fadel in the midst of a dispute over who will form the new government following the March 7 elections. Maliki, a Shiite who leads the State of Law bloc, hopes to form the next government despite losing the popular vote to former prime minister Ayad Allawi. Allawi, a secular Shiite who leads a faction called Iraqiya, received much of his support from Sunni and secular Iraqis. Maliki's group has struck a tentative deal for building a governing coalition with the Iraqi National Alliance, a group dominated by followers of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.
This Story

Here are selected portions of the interview, as translated by special correspondent K.I. Ibrahim:

How confidant are you that you will be the next prime minister?

Maliki: The candidate of the State of Law [Maliki] is the one with the better chance. Many achievements were linked to State of Law. Iraq will remember that the State of Law, and its candidate, was there when the body of the state collapsed entirely but came back to be coherent. This does not mean that we see that the others have no right to the prime minister's seat. If they managed to achieve the required quorum, we will support them within the rules of the democratic constitutional game. If they achieve the required numbers, we will congratulate and back them. We also wish that if we were to achieve the required numbers and support, they would stand by our side and help us, so that it would not be like the former government, which came under pressure by certain blocs in parliament.

It was difficult in the beginning of your rule?


Maliki: We had no country in 2006-2007. Almost all roads were cut off between Baghdad and the provinces, and even inside Baghdad itself. Today, the state has returned to a state of normalcy, the markets are open, and investment and reconstruction go on. Our orientation is to rebuild the country on a democratic basis, and we want to complete what we have achieved on the road to democracy.

Why is it that every time there is an agreement to meet with former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, it is postponed?

Maliki: I said to them if the meeting is to take place it should be based on a certain program or a dialogue. They said, 'No, we only want a meeting and pictures.' In fact, I find that this has no benefit, but still I do not reject that. If any person wishes to visit me he would be welcome, but I feel the country is in need of a dialogue. Why are they refusing that and only want a visit and take some pictures? The road is still open, and I would welcome him and any delegation from Iraqiya. We have informed them if you come with a delegation for talks and negotiations you are welcome. Even if Dr. Allawi wanted to come and visit me, he is welcome. I have no enmity or estrangement with him.

I only want to say there were no dates which were revoked by me at all. No date was ever set, but they only talk of these in the media.

He said that he asked for a meeting with you several times, but it did not happen?

Maliki: He wants this type of of a meeting only for the sake of picture taking. His cousin was here. I said to him welcome, but what are we meeting for? He said we don't want a dialogue; we want only a meeting with pictures. Still we said you are welcome.

Will you work with Iraqiya?

Maliki: Of course, it is a must that we reach an understanding with Iraqiya. The government cannot be formed without an understanding with Iraqiya because it has 78 Sunni candidates. How could the government be formed without Iraqiya whether as a bloc or as Sunnis?

But how can you reach an agreement with Allawi when you both want to be prime minister?

Maliki: It is not him who decides, nor is it me, it is the constitution. The constitution and the federal court say the largest political bloc. If he could form the largest bloc in parliament, he would be [the next prime minister]. If someone other than him were able to do it, and if no opposite bloc was formed, and the Iraqiya list became the largest bloc, it would be his right to form the government.

The opinion of the federal court is that the largest bloc is the one which wins in the election, unless, on the opposite side, a larger parliamentary bloc is formed.

Regarding the merging of the State of Law and the Iraqi National Alliance, INA, to form the government, is it final?

Maliki: Yes, the announcement was made, but there are still certain issues, procedures and mechanisms. There are meetings but they have not been finalized. The agreement with the INA is not based on a sectarian basis. This is a circle in which we have agreed to unify, and we shall work on unifying other circles.

The Sunni candidates on your list did not win seats and you've merged with a Shiite list. Many people view the merger as sectarian. How do you respond?

Maliki: The Shiite candidates in Iraqiya, we did not fight them in the Shiite areas, but Iraqiya harassed the Sunni candidates of the State of Law. This difference shows why our Sunnis did not win while their Shiites won.
ad_icon

In addition to that, there was talk during the elections in some of the hot areas, which are Sunni areas. This is an issue that we have bypassed now.

Many Iraqi Sunnis say this will be a Shiite government and the Sunni Arabs worry it won't represent them because of the deal between you and the Shiite Iraqi National Alliance?

Maliki: In reality, the formation of [Iraqiya] started on a sectarian background. The presence of some who are Shiite at the head of the list did not change the reality of this bloc. The essence of Iraqiya represents the Sunnis. The entry of the regional and international players in this subject created a return, even if not completely, to the logic of sectarianism and the logic of sectarian alignment. On the opposite side, the Shiites are saying the Sunnis became united and are supported by the Arab countries and this is something no longer unknown. So it is no longer rejected that two basic components in the Iraqi arena are to unite, but not on sectarian basis and background.

I want to point out regarding the State of Law and the INA. We have one Sunni member; the INA have none, but the Sunnis, who did not win, whether in our list or the INA, are in the heart of the political process. I was in a meeting, and we in the leadership panel of the State of Law, they are active and in an intense way. The Sunnis in the INA are also present and in an intense way. They share in the decision-making. The two alliances then have not departed from the nationalist makeup because they still have Sunnis who are in the heart of the decision making process.

Allawi said the alliance of the state of law and the INA would force Iraq back into a sectarian war?

Maliki: Allawi should not feel concerned, and no one should. The State of Law is the safety valve for the political process against the possibility of a turn towards sectarianism. Who killed sectarianism in Iraq? Not Allawi or others.

We confronted the militias and the gangs, Sunnis and Shiites, and this alliance has no sectarian alignment inside it and as I told you, the Sunnis are present in this alliance.

Frankly, I say the regional situation, which stood by the side of one particular component or bloc; this is the factor that we are afraid of. This might return Iraq to sectarianism, and may also increase the regional role in the Iraqi arena.

We at the State of Law reject any regional interference in the Iraqi decision. We have warned against this alignment before the elections. We said if the Sunni Arabs aligned as Arab countries with a certain list on the basis of its being Sunni, this would incite sectarianism. I asked the friends of Iraq to interfere to stop this regional interference for the benefit of one side because this pushes the other party towards the other end. We are still in the middle. We do not want the Shiite or the Sunni project to be the valid one in Iraq because Iraq will not be stable. Neither the Shiite alone nor the Sunnis alone can run the country.

[U. S.] Assistant Secretary Jeffrey Feltman said that you and Allawi need a plan B? Did he bring this up with you?

Maliki: This did not happen and it should not happen. We say we have a plan B or C on the basis of the reality and these are not foreign recipes executed on Iraqi realities, which they may not understand. Additionally, why should we go to plan B? The arena is open to anyone who can manage it. The political process is going along, we shall go to parliament and whoever has the largest bloc will form the government.
ad_icon

How do you view the role of the U.S. in the political process before and after the elections?

Maliki: On the basis of the agreement between the two countries with full sovereignties, and with the end of the period of occupation which existed before, there is no possibility for interference by the American side except through the agreement. So, the situation could not be described as negative. Rather it can be said it was positive in terms of compliance with the agreement articles.

The Americans, in addition to being friends of the Iraqis, are partners in this new reality. They gave more than 4,000 of their soldiers and spent huge amounts of funds in Iraq. We are keen to consult with the U.S. not on the basis of partnership alone. The strategic framework agreement described that partnership.

What U.S. military presence would you want after 2011?

Maliki: In fact, whether I or someone else is the prime minister, the presence of foreign troops on the land of Iraq after the agreement runs out will need a decision from parliament. My opinion is that what determines the number of advisers or fighters is the nature of the situation in Iraq. Will Iraq after 2011 need foreign forces on a combat level or in confronting terrorism, or in need of training? The basis will then be decided but after approval by parliament.

Regarding the alliance between State of law and the INA, the Sadrists, who have a militia, used to say they would not support you. Now they say they've removed their veto but have their conditions. What are you willing to give them?

Maliki: I do not want to exclude anyone who wants to seek our partnership in the political process. Definitely we need to reach understanding with those who want partnership. They say we have demands and conditions. I, too, say we have demands and conditions, first of which is belief in the constitution, in the democratic political process in the new Iraq, respect of the state, and the avoidance of overstepping it. [Outside the government they should] not be a party in running the state, whether through security or politically. Whoever pledges to comply with these guidelines would be my real partner. The Sadrists, if they want to comply, would be real partners, if they do not they will not be partners.

Don't you need them more than they need you?

Maliki: No, the matter is one of collecting numbers. We are able to collect the required numbers, but their presence in the political process is better than having them outside it. It is their right to give or not give their votes to Maliki. It is their option. Maliki will not accept that someone would give their votes in exchange for conditions or blackmail. The national interests, the democratic process, and the constitution are the basis.

What was your reaction when Allawi won the popular vote in the elections?

Maliki: I do not want to reopen this matter or to speak of what happened in the elections, or what happened after the decision by the court to do the recount. This kind of talk carries a lot of pain. But, it is enough for the State of Law to know that it was not supported by any country in the world. Rather all the regional countries fought it. Despite that it was the first were it not for the manipulation. Still, we say a difference of two seats from Allawi would not influence the formation of the government because that requires the formation of a majority.
ad_icon

American officials are worried about the slow pace of the negotiations and the inability to make concessions to form the government.

Maliki: Concessions are not a personal right for someone who believes in a country and a homeland and principles. If it came to me conceding to you and you conceding to me to get a position, then there is nothing good in that political process. These are national interests and the popular choice. We should respect that. But to have these become a compromise, I give you this and you give me that, is unacceptable. When a problem happens in America, the announcement of results is postponed, and they go to a hand recount.

When a problem happens in Italy, the government stays on for 6 months. In Lebanon, the government lingers on for 6 months or a year and the same in other countries. This is natural and in Iraq, it has been only two months and the problem was solved in a legal way. The Americans' demand for speeding up will be at the expense of the type of government. The Americans' interests might be damaged in a large way if matters went that way and the coming government was formed on the wrong basis. If we speed up and bring in sectarian people in positions of political authority that would be a problem. If we brought an extremist Shiite and made him prime minister, the extremist Sunnis would move in the opposite direction and we would be back at the sectarian fighting.

If we bring in an extremist Sunni, who are present, an extremist Shiite would meet him. So, the process is very delicate and needs care. This is not like sitting in a café for tea and exchanging posts. I am not one who sells and trades the interests of the people.

According to Al-Mada newspaper, you asked Allawi to give up his attempt to be prime minister?

Maliki: It is not my right to ask someone to give up. I read the real situation and I see Allawi's path as difficult, he has many problems ahead of him. I don't say that I have no problems but mine are less. I have a coherent list unlike the others. So, imagine the problems for Allawi and the others.

The President of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region Massoud Barzani told Al Hayat newspaper that Allawi should be given the chance to form the government.

Maliki: He denied it today; the regional government denied this and released a statement. He said even if Allawi was asked to form the government he would not make it because he would face a lot of opposition.

It's being reported that you are now the most acceptable candidate for Iran.

Maliki: I am not aware of that, whether I was acceptable to Iran. There are others who are closer to Iran.

Do you need Iran's support?

Maliki: I need the support of every person and every state but not on the basis of interference. I have no enmity with any regional state or with any Iraqi. I have no red line on any Iraqi who comes in accordance with the constitution, whether he became prime minister or president of the republic. The important thing is that it happens on the basis of the guidelines, the constitution, and I would welcome him and support him.

Neighboring Arab countries say you are hijacking the process, specifically Turki al-Faisal, the former Saudi intelligence prince.

Maliki: I would not be honored to be a candidate by some countries. I am honored to be the candidate of the Iraqi people. Statements by Turki al-Faisal and other Arabs, which are irresponsible, are what incite sectarian tension. No one has the right to speak on Iraqi affairs, as we have no right to speak on the affairs of other countries.

But they are making statements.

Maliki: This is our problem with our partners. We say to them do not take from the other states. Befriend them but do not let them interfere.

You said the government must include the Iraqiya or parts of it?

Maliki: Surely, the Iraqiya list and the Sunni component itself, and they must be in the sovereign posts, not in secondary posts. We shall not accept anything except their participation in basic positions because that is a guarantee to the end of the state of violence and terror. On the other hand the absence of the Shiites or depriving them of their rights, again the country would not be stable.

On election day voters still seemed to vote along sectarian lines. The Sunnis voted for the Sunnis and the Shiites for the Shiites.

Maliki: It is true with regret and I feel disappointed to a degree with the case of the voting being done on sectarian and ethnic lines. This was due to the regional project in Iraq. I used to believe that the election would be on the basis of the nation, but it seems the transition from a sectarian situation to a state based on the notion of citizenship still needs time. A people and a country were under a despicable dictatorship, and then after the fall of the regime there was a wave of sectarianism, it needs time to have an alternative to the sectarian behavior.

We need one or two terms to end the sectarian alignment. We achieved a lot during this term and we did a lot of work. We stopped the sectarian fighting. Regrettably, it reappeared again because of the regional interference. We must bear out this term and emphasize the need to overcome what is left of the sectarian behavior.

Are you concerned about the wave of violence following the election? Many attacks were directed at Shiite communities which led Sadr to ask his militia to protect the mosques.

Maliki: No party is allowed to assume any security responsibility. The state is responsible for security and protection for the mosques, Husseiniyas [Shiite mosques], and others. There is no backing down on this. And it is necessary that he should back down on that because terror, when targeting these Shiite communities, was meant to spark off a Shiite reaction which could lead to the sectarian war.

For this we pressed the Shiites to exercise self-control in order not to be drawn into a sectarian war. This is the behavior of al Qaeda. The state acted and dealt a powerful blow to al Qaeda by killing Abu Ayoub Al Masri, and Abu Omar al-Baghdadi [the two top leaders of al Qaeda in Iraq.] This is our plan; the state has become a state with an army, security forces, intelligence, which is capable of providing protection.

Here is a message which you might find of benefit. It was found in the house where Masri and Baghdadi stayed. It was written by Abu Sinan Al Saudi, addressed to Abu Ayoub Al Masri in which he says if Maliki remains in power, you shall not be able to incite a sectarian war, but if [another person] came to power, you would be able to spark off the sectarian war. This message was written on December 19th, before the election.

Iraqiya accused you of using the security forces to target their winning candidates and supporters. They say they are being detained.

Maliki: This is part of the opposition's political charisma. Let them tell me about one person who was detained for political reasons. I have stopped many requests for arrests by the higher judicial council just so that they would not say they were politically inspired, although they were killers and criminals. These charges are untrue. On the contrary we are now releasing detainees, Sunnis and Shiites, on whom there were no evidence.

Second, I have information on many candidates. One of them won and he was sentenced to a seven-year jail term on charges of killing.

If you continue in the post of prime minister, what will you do differently?

Maliki: I asked this question, I asked myself during the election campaign. My answer is there will be no work, which is different from what I am doing now, aside from completing what we started.

For instance, I dealt a blow to sectarianism, and the militias, and I want to complete wiping out sectarianism and militias. I struck al Qaeda and terrorists and want to complete that. We started the political democratic process and I want to complete it. We established a state and institutions on the basis of the constitution and I want to complete that.

We started a campaign in the oil field and concluded contracts with international companies and I want to complete that to get the funds. We concluded major contracts in the fields of water and sewage and I want to complete it. We started to rehabilitate agriculture, and improved our ties with the outside world and I want to complete that. We have problems inherited from the Saddam period with countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iran. We have problems with these countries and want to solve them diplomatically. We started and I want to complete that.

Also in education, we have a large number of students who will go to America and Britain to replenish the Iraqi universities of the capacities which were lost.

Are you worried about the violence?

Maliki: Violence exists, but not because the government has not been formed.

But the sectarian war was ignited during the last government formation.

Maliki: This is not true. Sectarian violence started before the formation of the Allawi government, escalated under the [Ibrahim al-] Jaafari government and following the destruction of the Shiite shrines. Violence was at its height when I assumed the government, not because of the delay in forming the government.

When will the government be formed?

Maliki: It is not easy to give you a specific date. During the coming days, we shall give the negotiations a strong charge of heat as hot as the heat of the Iraqi summer when there is no electricity.

Do you worry about the return of sectarian violence?

Maliki: I say if the government is formed in the wrong way, if it is formed by extremist Sunnis, who are present, or by extremist Shiites, who are also present, the sectarian violence will return and will wipe out all that we have already achieved. And with that all the losses, sacrifices and the achievements will go. I say we should not bow to the pressures of time and make a big mistake in forming the government.

The major danger came from some who were partners in the political process. They had one foot with the government and another with the terrorists. In their cars they transported weapons. With police cars they were doing their killing.

What if the Iraqiya bloc is not represented in the government, partially or wholly?

Maliki: This is out of the question because Iraqiya is an essential part. Yes, if it did not take part, there would be a lot of problems, and specifically if the Sunnis did not have suitable posts. This applies on the others, too. A government without Kurds, or without Shiites, or parts of the Shiite, like the Sadrists, or the Supreme Council, would create problems. We want to embrace all on a nationalist basis.

http://www.washingto...wprss=rss_world

[antfuzz]

An excellent read, thank you for posting.

I don't think many people realize that Maliki rarely gives interviews. I would like everyone to pay attention to when you read something about what Maliki said make sure to look for a direct quote from him, and not something that is mostly hearsay. I believe much of the information that is written up in Iraq media is hearsay and also much of the media is sectarian in nature.