Jeffrey Goldberg And The Israeli Defeat

[flatdawg]

By Gilad Atzmon

As one of the first to predict an immanent Israeli defeat in this round of violence, I was delighted to read this morning that Zionist mouthpiece Jeffrey Goldberg admits that Israel has lost the war. “Why Is Israel Losing a War It’s Winning?” asks Goldberg. The Jewish State is a regional super power, its lobbies dominate Western politics, it is technologically superior, so what could have gone wrong?

Jeffrey Goldberg, a veteran Israeli concentration camp guard produces a few uniquely amusing arguments that deserve our attention.

He writes, “In a fight between a state actor and a non-state actor, the non-state actor can win merely by surviving.”

I suspect Israel’s military leadership is aware of this argument by now. But the Palestinians have achieved far more than merely ‘surviving.’ They brought Israel to its knees. Palestinians performed heroically on the ground and displayed total unity, two things Israel did not anticipate. They have also delivered a clear message to the Israeli people, to world Jewry and even to the miniature Jewish ‘anti Zionist’ clan – this battle is not about ‘occupation,’ 1967 or the ‘two state solution.’ It is about human dignity – the right to exist. The Palestinians do not have any plans to fade away, they are the people of the land, and they will be back. The IDF may be able to destroy a few tunnels, murder elders, women and children and turn streets into piles of debris, but it can’t even scratch the Palestinians’ will. Eventually, even Goldberg may be forced to admit, that the Palestinians prevailed because their objectives and goals are far greater than mere ‘survival.’

“People talk a lot about the Jewish lobby. But the worldwide Muslim lobby is bigger,” complains Goldberg.

But is that really the case? In fact, most commentators including Goldberg himself (and in the same article) agree that Hamas and the Palestinians have never been more isolated politically even within the Muslim world. The explanation is the opposite of that preached by the ‘anti-Zionists.’ The Jewish progressive paradigm suggests that the building of alliances and leagues would ‘help’ the the Palestinians, but, in reality, once isolated and with their backs against the wall, the Palestinians prevailed militarily, politically, strategically, diplomatically and most important, spiritually. The reason? With your back to the wall and a gun to your face, it is pretty difficult to bend over.

Goldberg, makes the routine complaints about anti Semitism: “If you’ve spent any time these past few weeks on Twitter, or in Paris, you know that anti-Semitism is another source of Israel’s international isolation.”

As we know, lying and spinning for the ‘cause’ is a kosher sport. However, we still expect Zionist merchants such as Goldberg, Regev or Dershowitz to show slightly more sophistication. Instead of ‘anti Semitism,’ what we have in Paris is a puppet government controlled by the forceful Jewish Lobby CRIF. This government is indeed unpopular and its unpopularity reflects badly on its paymasters. What we see ‘in Paris’ and ‘on twitter’ is basically a reaction to Jewish power. Is it ‘anti Semitism?’ Not at all. Does it oppose Jews as a race or as a religion? Not at all. Does it oppose Jews simply for being Jews? Not at all. Instead it epitomizes resistance to Jewish lobbies and, in particular, crimes committed by the Jewish State in the name of the Jewish people.

“Anti-Semitism has been with us for more than 2,000 years; it is an ineradicable and shape-shifting virus,” says Goldberg.

Here he is simply wrong. Anti-Jewish feelings are the natural reaction to Jewish bad-behaviour. Jewish bad-behaviour is a dynamic notion, it has and has had many faces and permutations. Its different shapes and forms throughout history have evoked different forms of opposition. It is sad that Jewish bad-behaviour is as old as the Jews, probably caused by the tribal, racist and supremacist roots of Jewish tradition, heritage and texts. And it is the same Jewish racial exclusivism that is manifested in contemporary Jewish politics both Zionist and ‘anti.’ Practically speaking, opposing the Jewish State’s barbarism or its advocates, is not anti Semitism, it is humanism per se.

Goldberg, who whines about anti-Semitism on a daily basis, obviously doesn’t understand that it is he and his ilk who evoke anti-Jewish sentiment. In a patronising tone he lectures the democratically elected American government on what to do and how to behave. “Kerry’s recent efforts to negotiate a ceasefire have come to nothing in part because his proposals treat Hamas as a legitimate organization with legitimate security needs.” The Goldbergs, AIPAC and the Dershowitzes of this world do not admit that it is not up to the Jews to define the boundaries of legitimacy. On the contrary, an American liberation is long overdue. The American people could free their media, culture, finance and politics from that corrosive and repressive ideology that has dominated America for so long. Its influence on American foreign interests and diplomacy has ruined its value system and moral ethos and its effects on finance have left much of the country impoverished.

For years I have argued that the struggle in Palestine is our battle for humanity because we are all Palestinians. The triumph in Gaza is a wake up call for humanity. Without fear, we should identify the corrosive elements that have robbed us of our true Athenian spirit of truth and freedom and planted Jerusalem and Goldbergs in our midst.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/28/jeffrey-goldberg-and-the-israeli-defeat/

Flatdawg says: An interesting take from a member of the tribe. In fact, a take that shows israel can and will be defeated.

[tkeaton]

...israel can and will be defeated.

 

That's your father's dream, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. They'll win some battles and lose some along the way, but in the end, all nations will serve them.

[flatdawg]

That's your father's dream, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. They'll win some battles and lose some along the way, but in the end, all nations will serve them.

You may serve them, but I'm no slave.

[maverick101]

I don"t know if you watch The Blaze with Glenn Beck, he showed the face of evil and you support that face of evil

all I can say is you need to wake up to reality these people could give a damn whether you live or die preferrably

die so must like the idea of Sharia law the worst part is we still fund the SOB"s

[Sentinel7]

You may serve them, but I'm no slave.

You are a slave to the lies’

You are a slave to perversion

You are a slave to hypocrisy

You are a slave to Satan

 

But other then that your right I don’t see where you are a slave

 

If Israel has been defeated hamas sure has a funny way of celebrating

Just goes to show to much celebrating and you will die in the street.

 

 

 

      No Surrender No Retreat and No Compromise

[George Hayduke]

"But the Palestinians have achieved far more than merely ‘surviving.’ They brought Israel to its knees. Palestinians performed heroically on the ground and displayed total unity, two things Israel did not anticipate. They have also delivered a clear message to the Israeli people, to world Jewry and even to the miniature Jewish ‘anti Zionist’ clan – this battle is not about ‘occupation,’ 1967 or the ‘two state solution.’ It is about human dignity – the right to exist."

 

​Yep, the mighty Palestinian warriors fighting heroically for human dignity.

 

​You Jews better pack up and leave Judea and head back to Auswitch where you belong before the Palestinian Dignity Police force you into the Med...

 

[Big Newby]

I'm really scared. I believe in the Bible. I believe that Jesus was born a Jew and that God has always honored the Jewish people. Most Americans feel the same way and therefore our nation has always supported Israel, which is the only real ally the U.S. has in the Middle East. In doing so we've always agreed by our actions (not just in the Middle East but everywhere in the World) that if you attack one of our allies, you attack us. (In fact, the NATO commitment by the U.S. and every member nations says exactly that) Hamas is NOT a nation, but a political faction that fosters terrorism throughout the Middle East. Yes, Hamas is a radical group whose leaders have continually voiced desire to destroy Israel and all who support Israel, including the U.S. As a terrorist organization, violence is the delivery method for their cause. To that end Hamas has "lobbed" thousands of missiles from Gaza into Israel the last month or so. Israel retaliated. (Imagine how the U.S. would respond if Canada, Mexico, Honduras, or Panama lobbed missiles into the U.S.)

And here's what scares me: Most U.S. news media and almost every member of this Administration condemn Israel for its actions of retaliation against Hamas for its aggression. The reason given for their outcry against Israel's actions is that by doing so, Israel is killing civilians. This is said even though the World knows Hamas purposely puts missile bases in homes, hospitals, schools, and businesses in Gaza, in essence sacrificing the lives of Palestinian people in doing so.

Again and again we're seeing not so stealthy moves in Washington toward support of anti-Christian and anti-Israeli political and military action in the Middle East. The so called Champions of Human rights seem to be ignoring enforcement of rights guaranteed U.S. Citizens in the Constitution and that (at least verbally) they believe should be extended to citizens everywhere. The PC gang are selectively picking and choosing which categories of humans are eligible for these rights. They don't support U.S. laws passed by Congress, they don't honor treaties and agreements decades old between the U.S. and foreign countries, and they don't honor the men and women's rights who have put themselves in harms way to preserve ALL our Constitutional rights, liberties, and freedoms. And these violations go virtually unchallenged, even though the framers of the Constitution inserted the process to challenge actions like this by politicians.

I am anxious to see who will stand up and challenge the hypocrisies being trumpeted from within the Beltway. Isn't it about time for someone to simply stand up for what's right......PERIOD? Someone who will say, "Enough. Let's do the right thing....PERIOD!" If there is such a person, they'll be excoriated by the State Media, laughed at by every liberal, and ignored as being ignorant and inconsequential by members of this Administration, and branded "Irrelevant." But what I hope is there will be someone soon who is willing to pay the price -- no matter how large -- to stand against all this mediocrity that's flooded America so we can hopefully "right the ship." If this doesn't happen, I'm scared we're done.

Like

[George Hayduke]

Gilad Atzmon who wrote that pro-Palestinian propaganda is a self hating Jew, throwing Anti-Semitic stones from London. He's best known for authoring  the hit piece 'The Wandering Who?' 

 

"Hard-core neo-Nazis, racists, anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers have happily counted Atzmon as one of their own. David Duke, America’s premier white supremacist, has posted more than a dozen of Atzmon’s articles on his website over the past five years and recently praised Atzmon for “writing such fine articles exposing the evil of Zionism and Jewish supremacism.” (Alan Dershowitz)

 

Follows below are excerpts and examples from his book that reveal his bigotry and inability to provide a fair assessment of the Israeli / Palestinian conflict.

 

It's fair to say those that provide, promote, and share his written words also share his bigoted and anti-semitic views.  David Dike and other racists fawn all over him.

 

From the 'Wandering Who?'

 

 The history of Jewish persecution is a myth, and if there was any persecution the Jews brought it on themselves (175, 182). 

Atzmon argues that Jews are corrupt and responsible for “why” they are “hated”:

·     “n order to promote Zionist interests, Israel must generate significant anti-Jewish sentiment. Cruelty against Palestinian civilians is a favourite Israeli means of achieving this aim.”

·      “Jews may have managed to drop their God, but they have maintained goy-hating and racist ideologies at the heart of their newly emerging secular political identity. This explains why some Talmudic goy-hating elements have been transformed within the Zionist discourse into genocidal practices.” 

The “Judaic God” described in Deuteronomy 6:10-12 “is an evil deity, who leads his people to plunder, robbery and theft” (120). Atzmon explains that “Israel and Zionism … have instituted the plunder promised by the Hebrew God in the Judaic holy scriptures” (121).

“Many of us including me tend to equate Israel to Nazi Germany. Rather often I myself join others and argue that Israelis are the Nazis of our time. I want to take this opportunity to amend my statement. Israelis are not the Nazis of our time and the Nazis were not the Israelis of their time. Israel, is in fact far worse than Nazi Germany ..."

Hard-core neo-Nazis, racists, anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers, on the other hand, have happily counted Atzmon as one of their own. David Duke, America’s premier white supremacist, has posted more than a dozen of Atzmon’s articles on his website over the past five years and recently praised Atzmon for “writing such fine articles exposing the evil of Zionism and Jewish supremacism.” 

"Likewise, according to Atzmon’s book, it was “Jewish bankers,” financiers, economists, writers, and politicians such as Greenspan, Levy, Aaronovitch, Saban, Friedman, Schiff, and Rothschild who have caused the economic and political problems of the world, ranging from the Bolshevik revolution to the wars of the 20th century to the current economic troubles. And like other classic anti-Semites, Atzmon does not simply fault the individual Jews he names; he concocts a worldwide Jewish conspiracy motivated by a “ruthless Zio-driven” “Jewish ideology”  that finds its source in “the lethal spirit”  of the Hebrew Bible. This sort of conspiratorial drivel is borrowed almost word for word from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion—the Czarist forgery that became a staple of Nazi propaganda."  (Alan Dershowitz)

[MyLadiesDaddy]

You may serve them, but I'm no slave.

More than you know.

[waterman13]

Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, from His Father David, because He had to be, but He was not of the "Jews" of today who claim they are "Jews" but are not! He even told the Pharisees in His days their father was the Devil!

 

Read the Word people, do research! Who is who? Where did people move to after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians? Who was in Jerusalem at that time? Where were the tribes of Israel at that time? In the North, that's where. The "Lost Ten Tribes" Where did they go?

Wm13

[Djorgie]

WM13,

 

Thank you Brother!

 

John 8:44,  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the very beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[waterman13]

WM13,

 

Thank you Brother!

 

John 8:44,  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the very beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of it.

AMEN Sister!

Wm13

[Maggie123]

 

I'm really scared.

 

*****

And here's what scares me: Most U.S. news media and almost every member of this Administration condemn Israel for its actions of retaliation against Hamas for its aggression.

 

******

I am anxious to see who will stand up and challenge the hypocrisies being trumpeted from within the Beltway. Isn't it about time for someone to simply stand up for what's right......PERIOD? Someone who will say, "Enough. Let's do the right thing....PERIOD!" If there is such a person, they'll be excoriated by the State Media, laughed at by every liberal, and ignored as being ignorant and inconsequential by members of this Administration, and branded "Irrelevant." But what I hope is there will be someone soon who is willing to pay the price -- no matter how large -- to stand against all this mediocrity that's flooded America so we can hopefully "right the ship." If this doesn't happen, I'm scared we're done.

 

 

Here Is What American Faux Neuz Won't Tell You...

 

Are You Still "Scared"? Or Do You Want Me To Give More Of My Tax Dollars For What You Say Is "Right"?

 

 

Israel in urgent need of more US money for war on Gaza: Harry Reid

 

 

US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid

Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:47PM GMT

 

US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Israel urgently needs more financial aid from the United States for its offensive against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. 

 

On Monday afternoon, Reid, a member of the Democratic Party, warned that the Obama administration’s $225 million request to aid Israel during its current war may not be enough, as the Zionist regime continues to massacre Palestinians in Gaza.

 

Israel has been relentlessly pounding the besieged territory for 21 days. More than 1,050 Palestinians have been killed and thousands wounded, including women and children. In retaliation, Palestinian resistance fighters have fired rockets into Israel.

 

The Israeli military is now threatening to escalate its war on the coastal enclave by warning Palestinians in areas around the Gaza City to leave their homes.

 

Last week, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel sent a letter to congressional leadership requesting $225 million in additional US funding for Israel’s Iron Dome, which is a short-range rocket defense system designed to intercept rockets and artillery shells fired from a range of between four and 70 kilometers.

 

The money would be in addition to the $351 million that’s already under discussion for Iron Dome in fiscal 2015. It would bring total funding to $576 million, compared with the $176 million requested by the Pentagon for the year that begins on October 1.

 

But Reid said Tel Aviv will need even more money from Washington if the war continues.

 

“We should not give the Israeli people the minimum amount of aid and then cross our fingers and hope it all works out in the future,” Reid said. “We can do better and need to go further in protecting Israel.”

 

On Thursday, US Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Republicans plan to introduce their own legislation that would provide additional funding for the Iron Dome.

 

“Republicans are united in support of our ally Israel. We have legislation that would allow Congress to meet the [Defense] Secretary’s request” for $225 million, said McConnell. “We hope our friends on the other side will join us in coming to a sensible, bipartisan solution that can be passed quickly.”

 

But Reid accused Republicans of “slow walking” the money as the recess deadline approaches.

 

“We’ve got to get this done,” Reid said. “Leaving here with Israel being naked as they are, with these wildfires raging and a crisis at the border, it would be a shame if we did nothing.”

 

Senate Appropriations Committee Chairwoman Barbara Mikulski on Wednesday introduced an emergency spending bill that included funding for the border crisis, Israel’s Iron Dome system and wildfire relief. Republicans have pushed back against the border funding proposal.

 

In 2013, Congress allocated $235 million for the Iron Dome. And the Obama administration had requested about $176 million for the system for 2015, but the Senate panel doubled the amount.

 

A Congressional Research Service report in April said that the US had provided more than $700 million to Israel for Iron Dome. The latest bill would lift that to about $1 billion.

 

Israel already receives billions of dollars of American taxpayers’ money each year. Under an existing 10-year aid agreement between Washington and Tel Aviv signed in 2007, $30 billion of American money is flowing to Israel.

 

The US annual military aid to Israel has been elevated from $2.4 billion to $3.1 billion through 2017 under the existing agreement.

 

Meanwhile, US and Israeli officials have discussed a surge in US military aid to Israel in a new aid package that would extend through 2027.

 

In an interview with Press TV on July 10, international peace activist Sara Flounders said the Israeli aggression in Gaza is fully backed by the United States.

 

“The US is the main support of Israel and is totally behind this attack. Any attack from Israel would have been impossible without decades of US military, political, diplomatic, and economic support of Israel,” Flounders said.

 

“And the Zionist policy -- its attack on the Palestinian people, its attack on the surrounding countries -- every part of that policy is the US policy to destabilize the region and an attempt to destroy the Palestinian people,” she added.

 

“Not only is the US behind this, the US has denounced the unity government of the Palestinian people, between Fatah and Hamas -- a huge step forward -- and that’s because US policy at every point, US corporate rule, is for divide and conquer,” the activist noted.

 

GJH/GJH

[flatdawg]

Good find Mags.

I too think we should borrow more money against our children's and grand children's future to send to a country hell bent on continuing a genocide. <sarcasm>

[sportfisher]

You may serve them, but I'm no slave.

you are a slave to Satan, and serve the enemy.

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Rapture is coming. This outbreak against Israel and Christianity is only going to

get worse. Then those who hate truth and love a lie will receive strong dissolution

That they should believe a bigger lie.

God help you all.

[flatdawg]

Fisher, shouldn't you be over in Palestine XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Rapture is coming.

I've seen crazy guys carrying signs saying the same thing. You do that on the weekends?

Edited July 30, 2014 by carlablum
terrible choice of words!!!

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Fisher, shouldn't you be over in Palestine XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I've seen crazy guys carrying signs saying the same thing. You do that on the weekends?

Please tell me you didn't just accuse me of killing kids.

Edited July 30, 2014 by carlablum

[gymrat76541]

Israel Vs Palestinians......................................my money is on Israel! No brainer! LOL

[flatdawg]

Israel Vs Palestinians......................................my money is on Israel! No brainer! LOL

Not just your money, but all the American tax payers.

Please tell me you didn't just accuse me of killing kids.

Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit.

[MyLadiesDaddy]

"PRAY FOR THOSE WHO DESPITEFULLY USE YOU AND FALSELY ACCUSE YOU,

FOR THEREBY YOU SHALL HEAP COALS OF FIRE ON THEIR HEADS"

You just went number one on my prayer list.

God bless you.

And I have a lot of time to pray.

[RVWITHME]

Not just your money, but all the American tax payers.

Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit.

 

 And to think that I yanked one of your negs today.

 

Oh the Shame of it all 

Here's something that's pretty revealing.

 

 

"Anti-semitic", "its a trick we always use it":

It's the the standard tactic of calling someone "anti-Semitic," and its used to sabotage anyone who speaks out against the US government policy of supporting immoral and illegal Israeli policies which violate basic human rights. And as you can see, this person suggests using a new word for the same old trick.

Amy Goodman interviews a former Israeli minister and she helps expose this trick used against dissidents, the defamation tactic of calling people "anti-Semitic."

 

https://archive.org/details/itsATrickWeAlwaysUseIt.callingPeopleanti-semitic

 

[dog53]

 

Here Is What American Faux Neuz Won't Tell You...

 

Are You Still "Scared"? Or Do You Want Me To Give More Of My Tax Dollars For What You Say Is "Right"?

 

 

Israel in urgent need of more US money for war on Gaza: Harry Reid

 

 

US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid

Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:47PM GMT

 

US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Israel urgently needs more financial aid from the United States for its offensive against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. 

 

On Monday afternoon, Reid, a member of the Democratic Party, warned that the Obama administration’s $225 million request to aid Israel during its current war may not be enough, as the Zionist regime continues to massacre Palestinians in Gaza.

 

Israel has been relentlessly pounding the besieged territory for 21 days. More than 1,050 Palestinians have been killed and thousands wounded, including women and children. In retaliation, Palestinian resistance fighters have fired rockets into Israel.

 

The Israeli military is now threatening to escalate its war on the coastal enclave by warning Palestinians in areas around the Gaza City to leave their homes.

 

Last week, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel sent a letter to congressional leadership requesting $225 million in additional US funding for Israel’s Iron Dome, which is a short-range rocket defense system designed to intercept rockets and artillery shells fired from a range of between four and 70 kilometers.

 

The money would be in addition to the $351 million that’s already under discussion for Iron Dome in fiscal 2015. It would bring total funding to $576 million, compared with the $176 million requested by the Pentagon for the year that begins on October 1.

 

But Reid said Tel Aviv will need even more money from Washington if the war continues.

 

“We should not give the Israeli people the minimum amount of aid and then cross our fingers and hope it all works out in the future,” Reid said. “We can do better and need to go further in protecting Israel.”

 

On Thursday, US Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Republicans plan to introduce their own legislation that would provide additional funding for the Iron Dome.

 

“Republicans are united in support of our ally Israel. We have legislation that would allow Congress to meet the [Defense] Secretary’s request” for $225 million, said McConnell. “We hope our friends on the other side will join us in coming to a sensible, bipartisan solution that can be passed quickly.”

 

But Reid accused Republicans of “slow walking” the money as the recess deadline approaches.

 

“We’ve got to get this done,” Reid said. “Leaving here with Israel being naked as they are, with these wildfires raging and a crisis at the border, it would be a shame if we did nothing.”

 

Senate Appropriations Committee Chairwoman Barbara Mikulski on Wednesday introduced an emergency spending bill that included funding for the border crisis, Israel’s Iron Dome system and wildfire relief. Republicans have pushed back against the border funding proposal.

 

In 2013, Congress allocated $235 million for the Iron Dome. And the Obama administration had requested about $176 million for the system for 2015, but the Senate panel doubled the amount.

 

A Congressional Research Service report in April said that the US had provided more than $700 million to Israel for Iron Dome. The latest bill would lift that to about $1 billion.

 

Israel already receives billions of dollars of American taxpayers’ money each year. Under an existing 10-year aid agreement between Washington and Tel Aviv signed in 2007, $30 billion of American money is flowing to Israel.

 

The US annual military aid to Israel has been elevated from $2.4 billion to $3.1 billion through 2017 under the existing agreement.

 

Meanwhile, US and Israeli officials have discussed a surge in US military aid to Israel in a new aid package that would extend through 2027.

 

In an interview with Press TV on July 10, international peace activist Sara Flounders said the Israeli aggression in Gaza is fully backed by the United States.

 

“The US is the main support of Israel and is totally behind this attack. Any attack from Israel would have been impossible without decades of US military, political, diplomatic, and economic support of Israel,” Flounders said.

 

“And the Zionist policy -- its attack on the Palestinian people, its attack on the surrounding countries -- every part of that policy is the US policy to destabilize the region and an attempt to destroy the Palestinian people,” she added.

 

“Not only is the US behind this, the US has denounced the unity government of the Palestinian people, between Fatah and Hamas -- a huge step forward -- and that’s because US policy at every point, US corporate rule, is for divide and conquer,” the activist noted.

 

GJH/GJH

 

 

Whats the difference if we dont give it to them . We will just give it away to someone else.

Either way we taxpayers are gonna pay for it.  

[carlablum]

 Can we all please stop the name calling and just agree to disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!