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Is the Revaluation happening around the 2nd passover time?


tsr
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Mohammed wrote word for word and we still have the exact words.

 

It hasn't morphed into other meanings with language transitions like the Bible did.

However, many will say there are contradictions in the Koran.

 

"God would not have a son."

"God only says BE and it is."

 

AND the Koran reaffirms Gabriel's visit to Mary.

 

I believe that the origin of the Qur’an is in question as well. There are at least two (possible 3) different collections of the supposed text of the Qur’an. 

1.     The Collection Under Abu Bakr. (632-634).  First Zayd ibn Thabit, former secretary of Mohammad, held the collection of texts.  Mohammad was supposed to have given the collection to Bakr for safekeeping.  Bakr intern passed the texts to ‘Umar who passed the texts to his daughter, Hafsa. 

2.     There is another set of texts collected by Uthman (644-656).  The Generals under ‘Uthman to make a collection of the teachings of Mohammad.  The reason for the request was a dispute that arose among the troops as to the correct readings of his sayings, because they had other versions of the Qur’an that contradicted.  Therefore, Zayd ibn Thabit, and 3 members of Meccan families, revised the Qur’an.  Copies were sent to Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Mecca, & Median.  Commands were then given that ALL OTHER VERSIONS WERE TO BE DESTROYED!  They proceeded to destroy all the “other versions” being read by those provinces.  Yet there remained other versions floating around in other provinces.

Plus, all these stories of how the Qur’an came to be place an enormous burden on the memories of the early Muslims. Scholars are compelled to exaggerate the prodigious memories of the Arabs. Muhammad could not read or write according to some traditions, and therefore everything depends on him having perfectly memorized what God revealed to him through His Angels. Some of the stories in the Qur’an are enormously long; for instance, the story of Joseph takes up a whole chapter of 111 verses. Are we really to believe that Muhammad remembered it exactly as it was revealed? Muhammad did not write the passages but had those around him who could write put the words down on sheep and goatskins, pieces of wood or bone, stones, etc.  But there is not one piece of the original writings left.  All have disappeared. 

Companions of the Prophet are said to have memorized many of his utterances. Could their memories never have failed?

Muslim scholars of the early years of Islam were far more flexible, realizing that parts of the Qur’an were lost, perverted, and that there were many thousand variants which made it impossible to talk of the Qur’an.

For example, As-Suyuti (died 1505), one of the most famous and revered of the commentators of the Qur’an, quotes Ibn ‘Umar al Khattab as saying: "Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Quran, for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Quran has been lost, thus let him say, ‘I have acquired of it what is available’" (As-Suyuti, Itqan, part 3, page 72).

A’isha, the favorite wife of the Prophet, says, also according to a tradition recounted by as-Suynti, "During the time of the Prophet, the chapter of the Parties used to be two hundred verses when read. When ‘Uthman edited the copies of the Qur’an, only the current (verses) were recorded" (73). Does that mean that she failed to put everything down that was in the “writings”? 

As-Suyuti also tells this story about Uba ibn Ka’b, one of the great companions of Muhammad:

This famous companion asked one of the Muslims, "How many verses in the chapter of the Parties?" He said, "Seventy-three verses." He (Uba) told him, "It used to be almost equal to the chapter of the Cow (about 286 verses) and included the verse of the stoning". The man asked, "What is the verse of the stoning?" He (Uba) said, "If an old man or woman committed adultery, stone them to death."  Again, doesn’t this mean that the Qur’an has changed? 

Muslims themselves have called the authenticity of many verses in the Qur’an into question. Many Kharijites, who were followers of ‘Ali in the early history of Islam, found the sura recounting the story of Joseph offensive, an erotic tale that did not belong in the Qur’an.

More serious are the interpolations of a dogmatic or political character, which seem to have been added to justify the elevation of ‘Uthman as caliph to the detriment of ‘Ali. Gerd-R. Puin's current thinking about the Qur’an's history partakes of this contemporary revisionism. “My idea is that the Qur’an is a kind of cocktail of text that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself.” 

The point is that there are variant readings and versions of the Qur’an.  It is not the work of God but is of one man, Muhammad, and that the writing of the Qur’an took place over 200 years after his death.  The supposed texts were from the memory of those disciples who tried to remember what they could, but they had lost the original writings.  None exists today. 

None of the Bible’s original writings exist today either, but the words of God were written down immediately and preserved in copies.  It was not left to memory for 100’s of years after they were given. 

The Qur’an fails all tests of inspiration and revelation from God.  

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Oh it is not only Christianity that I have problems with....Muslims are number one LGD.  I have a problem with fake christians who are in it for the money and just a few Bible quotes.  But otherwise I believe in it.

I can understand that completely Botswana.  There is nothing that turns God's stomach (if thats possible) more than a lukewarm, half-committed, capitulating, scripture quoting, Christian who lacks any real faith in Christ as Lord.  Sound too judgmental?  Maybe.  But saints are called to discern in order to assist the sinking saint to get back upon the solid rock of Christ.  But don't blame the evil on the One who destroys evil.  Christ's kingdom is not divided. Don't give up faith because of lack of understand by wayward Christians.  

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*munches popcorn*

 

I attacked Christians with a Star Trek movie quote?

 

YOUR HEART is nowhere near God if you think that.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

 

*MMMmmm popcorn.*

Please don't take my statements of your actions as judgment, they are merely one

sinners understanding. And again my comments are meant with the deepest amount

of love and sincerity.

Botzwana, sorry I haven't responded sooner, please forgive me. My job requires me

to work 14 hours a day and I truly wanted to pray about my reply to you. It seems

true what the Holy Spirit told me concerning your feelings. And for that I give God

all glory. I too have been hurt in the most degrading way by those who call themselves

Christians. Indeed, it prevented me from receiving Christ as my saviour for many years.

But though I professed to despise God he loved me so much that when the time

was right he spoke to me. I heard his voice and surrendered my life to him. I'd like to

say everything was hunky dory after that but in truth following Christ is by far the

most challenging task I've ever undertaken. Still it's not without its rewards. I have

watched Jesus change me in so many ways I don't have time to tell. These days

I'm so excited just to see what's next. I know in my heart you're a good person, and

that some day God will speak to you. It's my daily prayer that when he does you will

answer his voice. Keeping your eyes on Jesus, as he keeps his eyes on you.

P.S.

Believe me when I say this, I live in Kansas, and it has taken every once of self

restraint I possess not to visit those hypocrites in Topeka and set them straight.

But I shall leave them in God's hands.

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When everything has been said and it becomes a bit confusing I always remember what God really loves, just simple childlike faith. Nothing to complex about it...

The complexities get introduced by our own carnal thought, as opposed to what He told us. After Noah, the world broke up into two camps. One followed after God and one followed after man. Shem became Melkizedek, king of Peace, and Ham begot Cush who begot Nimrod, establishing an empire of man-worship. This line continued through Egypt and was brought to light again at Mt. Sinai. God had just given the Israelites the "ten commandments" and with all the thunderings and lightnings they were afraid and asked Moses to talk to God on their behalf. They correctly perceived that were they to hear God's voice then they would die. True, carnality does die when man begins to hear the voice of the holy Spirit. Problem was, right after this, He began explaining HOW it was all to be accomplished. He began describing feasts and sabbaths, sabbath years, jubilees, counsel against putting money out at interest, and for using equal weights and measures in our dealings with all men. They missed a critically important part of the message. Remember, Abraham was promised that his descendants would bless all of the nations of the earth. This was the mandate of his destiny. Most of his followers chose to follow man's voice rather than God's, studying the Talmud rather than the Torah, and lost out on receiving much of God's power to pull it off.

Please don't take my statements of your actions as judgment, they are merely one

sinners understanding. And again my comments are meant with the deepest amount

of love and sincerity.

Botzwana, sorry I haven't responded sooner, please forgive me. My job requires me

to work 14 hours a day and I truly wanted to pray about my reply to you. It seems

true what the Holy Spirit told me concerning your feelings. And for that I give God

all glory. I too have been hurt in the most degrading way by those who call themselves

Christians. Indeed, it prevented me from receiving Christ as my saviour for many years.

But though I professed to despise God he loved me so much that when the time

was right he spoke to me. I heard his voice and surrendered my life to him. I'd like to

say everything was hunky dory after that but in truth following Christ is by far the

most challenging task I've ever undertaken. Still it's not without its rewards. I have

watched Jesus change me in so many ways I don't have time to tell. These days

I'm so excited just to see what's next. I know in my heart you're a good person, and

that some day God will speak to you. It's my daily prayer that when he does you will

answer his voice. Keeping your eyes on Jesus, as he keeps his eyes on you.

P.S.

Believe me when I say this, I live in Kansas, and it has taken every once of self

restraint I possess not to visit those hypocrites in Topeka and set them straight.

But I shall leave them in God's hands.

Amen to most of that. Key is to learn to hear His voice. Most prefer to hear what someone else says. I can't claim to be as disciplined in prayer as you, so usually don't say I'll pray for you daily, just do it as the Spirit moves me. That way I don't have to judge myself when I fail. I have just found myself to be unreliable in that regard.

Also, I don't know anyone in Topeka, but that does sound interesting. There might be an area for directed prayer. Remember that everyone does what's right in their own eyes, and those who kill us do so believing they are doing service to God.

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Hi Folks:

I am glad that I started this thread.  I enjoyed the discussions here.  "TODO"s date (mentioned in 2011 in his posts in this forum and as stated in my first post) for revaluation is around the 2nd Jewish Passover (which is MAY 14th in 2014).  Just watching the ground realities in Iraq, Iraq is progressing and prospering.  My spiritual inspiration is in conformance with "TODO"s observations.  I will come back again in 2 weeks to review things. 

 

If I might add my 2 cents to the spiritual discussion going on here, I believe that if I seek the Living God - God  will take care of the rest.  Through out the scriptures, when God spoke - men heard.    God is the same yesterday, today and for ever.

Blessings

T S Reddy

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Folks:

I am glad that I started this thread.  I enjoyed the discussions here.  "TODO"s date (mentioned in 2011 in his posts in this forum and as stated in my first post) for revaluation is around the 2nd Jewish Passover (which is MAY 14th in 2014).  Just watching the ground realities in Iraq, Iraq is progressing and prospering.  My spiritual inspiration is in conformance with "TODO"s observations.  I will come back again in 2 weeks to review things. 

 

If I might add my 2 cents to the spiritual discussion going on here, I believe that if I seek the Living God - God  will take care of the rest.  Through out the scriptures, when God spoke - men heard.    God is the same yesterday, today and for ever.

Blessings

T S Reddy

 

Hi Folks:

 

Greetings to all the posters here.  Please hang in there.  Based on my spiritual inspiration, RV is ready to be implemented any time now.  I will be back before the end of this week for a review.

Blessings

T S Reddy 

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TSR, did God leave you hanging or what?

Or whatever divine entity you're relying on?

 

I remember a Big Call a few years ago and some guy said "God told me it's gonna happen by Friday!"

 

Is God a liar too?

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First of all, that many were entrusted with the oracles of God.  What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?  May it never be!  Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar . . . 

 

There are some who make wide and sweeping claims about the work of God, the Spirit, in their life when in reality it is their own spirit prompting and speaking from the human hope of riches at the possible RV.  When hearing the predictions of the gurus, the positive statements from the news, and the positive hype by everyone else, some believers are carried away into a ecstasy that they mistakenly believe to be from God, when in reality, God has not spoken.  The believer has not been lied to by God, but  by his own mind.  

 

God does not lie.   

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Way to go sir spoken like a real smart a$$!

My hero!

When do you and I get the smart a$$ icon under our names?

 

I rather be the smart one vs the dumb one. :lol:

 


 

Pesach Sheni

 

Jewish Holidays:

 

Pesach Sheni (Hebrew, literally “Second Passover”) is a Jewish holiday that occurs on the 14th of the Hebrew month of Iyar.

 

The holiday originates from the Torah in the Book of Numbers Chapter 9 in the wake of Moses' announcement that the Passover sacrifice (Korban Pesach) can only be eaten on a specific date and only by those who are ritually pure. These caveats to performing the mitzvah sparked anger amongst people in the nation who had come in contact with the dead and were now considered impure and unable to bring the offering - 'We are unclean by the dead body of a man; wherefore are we to be kept back, so as not to bring the offering of HaShem in its appointed season among the children of Israel?' (Numbers 9:7).

 

God responds to the nation by declaring that anyone who is unable to bring the sacrifice – either due to ritual impurity or an inability to reach Jerusalem (the site of offering) during Passover – can instead make the sacrifice on the 14th of Iyar, a full month after Passover, and eat the paschal lamb with matzah and maror (bitter herbs). As it is written, 'If any man of you or of your generations shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto HaShem in the second month on the fourteenth day at dusk they shall keep it; they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.' (Numbers 9:10-11). The bringing of the Passover offering was considered so important that this is the only instance of a Torah commandment in which an official "make-up day" is established to ensure performance.

 

Today, Pesach Sheni is celebrated only symbolically, as the practice of bringing sacrifices has been discontinued since the destruction of the Second Temple. Instead, it is now customary to eat a piece of matzah on the holiday while tachanun (a daily supplications prayer not recited on holidays) is omitted from the prayer service to commemorate the joyous occasion from ancient times.

-

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I rather be the smart one vs the dumb one. :lol:

 


 

Pesach Sheni

 

Jewish Holidays:

 

Pesach Sheni (Hebrew, literally “Second Passover”) is a Jewish holiday that occurs on the 14th of the Hebrew month of Iyar.

 

The holiday originates from the Torah in the Book of Numbers Chapter 9 in the wake of Moses' announcement that the Passover sacrifice (Korban Pesach) can only be eaten on a specific date and only by those who are ritually pure. These caveats to performing the mitzvah sparked anger amongst people in the nation who had come in contact with the dead and were now considered impure and unable to bring the offering - 'We are unclean by the dead body of a man; wherefore are we to be kept back, so as not to bring the offering of HaShem in its appointed season among the children of Israel?' (Numbers 9:7).

 

God responds to the nation by declaring that anyone who is unable to bring the sacrifice – either due to ritual impurity or an inability to reach Jerusalem (the site of offering) during Passover – can instead make the sacrifice on the 14th of Iyar, a full month after Passover, and eat the paschal lamb with matzah and maror (bitter herbs). As it is written, 'If any man of you or of your generations shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto HaShem in the second month on the fourteenth day at dusk they shall keep it; they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.' (Numbers 9:10-11). The bringing of the Passover offering was considered so important that this is the only instance of a Torah commandment in which an official "make-up day" is established to ensure performance.

 

Today, Pesach Sheni is celebrated only symbolically, as the practice of bringing sacrifices has been discontinued since the destruction of the Second Temple. Instead, it is now customary to eat a piece of matzah on the holiday while tachanun (a daily supplications prayer not recited on holidays) is omitted from the prayer service to commemorate the joyous occasion from ancient times.

-

Thanks Mark....I'm sure many did not know of that tradition....and it's Scriptural basis...

 

First of all, that many were entrusted with the oracles of God.  What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?  May it never be!  Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar . . . 

 

and Nelg.... that indeed is heart of the matter as Scripture makes clear...men often are self-deceived...and presume to speak a Word in the Name....when it is out of their own flesh

 

 

thanks guys

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If God doesn't lie, then why are people who said God spoke to them proven wrong?

 

It WASN'T God who spoke to that man?

 

That man didn't deserve to be spoken to by God?

 

DO YOU speak for God?

If a person says that God spoke to them and what that person says proves to be incorrect, then God has not spoken to them.  It is that simple.  

If it wasn't God, then that person was spoken to by either his own mind, or by another spirit, but not from God.  

God does not need a deserving or worthy person to do His bidding or communicate His word. But He does need a faithful person, and obedient person willing to speak and do what God commands.  God used a "dumb donkey" to speak to a disobedient prophet.  

 

"Do YOU speak for God?"  In some ways, yes.  I do, and many others, speak for God when we teach His revealed word to any one or group.  It is found in the Bible.  

I speak to God every day when I am in prayer.  He speaks to me through His word, the BIble.  It is not that difficult to understand.  

 

The question should be, "Does God speak a direct revelation by inspiration to any person today?"  The answer to that question is, why should He?  We have His revealed will in the Bible and most don't believe what is written or obey what He has told us to do.  

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a869126d_Yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-l

 

 

God and I communicate too and there's no dogma or book telling me what's what or how to do that.

 

I just try to live like how God wants us to treat our fellow man, and boy is it hard sometimes.

Living life is a constant challenge, especially in today's world.  If I didn't have God's Spirit living within me I would not be able to live it.  It is His power that enables me to do so.  

Please understand that I am not trying trying to be argumentative as I ask you some questions.

I am assuming that you know that there is a God since you expressed that you know how He wants you to live.

How did you come to believe in God?  

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