Mountain Goat Update From TNT - 09/16/2013

[bg888]

 

Where is the emoticon to symbolize "talking out of both sides of ones mouth?"    We could use that one or the "talking out of ones *ss."    I'm not picky, I just need one of them to apply to this guru post.

 

thanks bumper, I knew it must exist somewhere.

[Rayzur]

Sandstorm, imo your points are very well taken, and I appreciate the caution seasoned folks put out there, if nothing else, to give another perspective to someone considering going out to buy  a boatload of dinar they can't really afford... Don't know that we see that all that much any more, but have certainly watched a lot of that in past..

 

Having taken the time to look at this most recent post... there are indeed statements that are not accurate or are misleading, or kind of screwy.... for example, this is what jumps out for me and my understanding [which could be off]:

Here is why- the USA printed this currency, delivered this currency to Iraq and implemented it as a provisional currency. It is going to increase in value but not in the manner like everyone believes.

This seems to imply the currency holds the value, versus the more accurate represents the value, in terms of units required for a transaction.

It will have a much higher jump in value than the IQN initially depending on the country exchanging it. 
So for example if you are in Austria exchanging the rate of exchange could be much different than in the USA.

The exchange rate as referenced here, is derived in paring two currencies. So yeah the number of Euro I get is very different from the number of Baht I get for the same US dollar... but both will have the same value relative to my US dollar.... The gold chain I buy costing hundreds of thousands of Baht, and thousands of Euro, cost me the same 6000.00 dollars US, no matter what I converted it to before I bought it...

....(IQN from the IQD) and allow the new Iraq currency (IQN) to come out to the international exchanges with still the low initial rate then let the market drive it but also they needed a way to preserve a high value of the existing 3 zeros notes (IQD).

This seems to be a pivotal driver of the discussion. I can only hope, wish and pray it were true. And what I read in every economic discussion is the constant reassurance to the people that changing the currency will not result in losing value. That the same blanket costing 25,000 dinar will now cost 25 dinar. That losing the zeros on the notes does not mean the Iraqi has lost the value of what they can purchase. I saw this all over the EU when they switched over to the Euro. My 1000 lira bought the same bar of soap my new 1 euro bought. My money did not lose value in terms of what it could buy, when it lost the zeros on the lira, for the new euro.

 

I don't understand the separating thing and am not taking enough time to sort it maybe. I am clear that the IMF is crystal clear that Iraq shall not have two different currencies in play at the same time (not meaning notes, but currencies representing differing value). I can't tell, is this in line with the IMF?  I also don't know how that would work using the IQD for oil credits... unless the thought is that old notes now represent something called oil credit, and has no value as a currency.. and/or does not follow the rules of currency exchange rates... And the IMF does indeed detail all these categories of "value", but I haven't waded them them enough to see if there is a hocus pocus way to treat old IQD, by way of statute. On the surface however, there is not. And the US is already the ME broker in the sense all their oil is pegged to the USD. Though the brokering line of thought is interesting...Of course ya'll know I'm wondering who the "who" is that's going to drive all this oil movement in the direction desired...In any case, all the discussion of this stuff seems to fly in direct contradiction to the IMF rules and the IMF agreement Iraq signed about dual currencies (of differing exchange value).

 

The plan now is also to allow citizens 30 days to exchange the IQD dinar in your country of origin and then it will become obsolete as far as the banks for future exchanges from their citizens.

Don't think 30 days is long enough and but who knows.... And yes everyone can exchange... and at this point in the process... for what value? That's always been the question. If at this point in this process, there is an exchange of the multi zero notes for a value that has been adjusted to an exchange rate of even a penny at this point... I'd be dancing (okay, I dance easily)...

I can't follow this next section all that well.... is it saying the exchange would be IQD for IQN? (or the currency you prefer). And is the suggestion that IQD for IQN is better than USD, as the IQN will be exchanged for more USD in the long run...

There is even speculation that they issued some of this currency and it is in circulation already to a very limited extent and is being use as part of the money on the Qi Smart Cards in the ATMs.

Again, there is the assumption that the currency holds the value (versus represents it) and at this juncture, appears to be saying the value (exchange rate) is different than and greater than the previous currency.. which is still in play? Oh... looks like this is answered to some degree

So you can see the IQD and the IQN are going to be two different currencies on the exchanges but also have a connection to each other since one proceeds the other and they must coexist for an extended period of time until the IQN replaces fully the IQD.

This is actually not okay with the IMF and is specifically addressed in specific words to that effect, saying it will not be allowed, and which was signed by Iraq years ago and in force to present. No two currencies at the same time....oh, but I guess that pesky little requirement is not such a big deal?

The rates of exchange on the each currency will be different and you should now understand why this could be possible and why the necessity to do it this way. Don't worry so much or get all hung up about all the IMF currency rules. They make the rules so they can bend them anyway they want, if needed. After all this is a financial crisis is it not?

Call me madcap, but it seems if the IMF could cure a financial crisis by simply bending the rules that are intended to avoid an even greater crisis, I don't know that bending this particular rule, would be the one I'd choose (to cure the world crisis).

Its a bit disquieting to have to dismiss the specific IMF rule Iraq agreed to, in order to make this scenario work... Darn... I was hoping...

 

I guess for me the remaining question is, will Iraq increase the value of the exchange rate against the USD before decimalizing their currency (removing the zeros). And if they don't, what will be the new exchange rate reflecting value, represented by their new notes?

 

The entire ME is on fast track to become a paperless monetary system... I think it was Bahrain (or Dubai) that was recently the first to achieve this... there is no currency, only cards with value attached to them in that country. The rest of the ME is heavily focused on this goal...I think Iraq would like to move directly to cards if they could.. and wonder if some of the arguments are about new currency versus going direct to cards....And btw, the technology of some of these cards is jaw dropping amazing... like not requiring hardware POS to make a transaction.... They are way ahead of us ion this (which is way fine by me), and its not always accurate to view their system through the lens of transaction we use here.

 

I still like her attempts to connect the dots. I have no idea if my questions are critical points in this, or if they are drivers necessary to the logical progression of her overall thinking... I'm really not debating the validity of her assumptions, as much as addressing issues that conflict with some of her points along the way. Actually, I would love to hear that none of them matter in the overall scheme of things...
 

[caz1104]

Lord help me...........................its a cartoon character for c*rist sake. No one knows diddly squat in regards to what is going to happen, it's all speculation. I'm out .....................goodnight 

[zigmeister]

Sandstorm, imo your points are very well taken, and I appreciate the caution seasoned folks put out there, if nothing else, to give another perspective to someone considering going out to buy  a boatload of dinar they can't really afford... Don't know that we see that all that much any more, but have certainly watched a lot of that in past..

 

Having taken the time to look at this most recent post... there are indeed statements that are not accurate or are misleading, or kind of screwy.... for example, this is what jumps out for me and my understanding [which could be off]:

Here is why- the USA printed this currency, delivered this currency to Iraq and implemented it as a provisional currency. It is going to increase in value but not in the manner like everyone believes.

This seems to imply the currency holds the value, versus the more accurate represents the value, in terms of units required for a transaction.

It will have a much higher jump in value than the IQN initially depending on the country exchanging it. 

So for example if you are in Austria exchanging the rate of exchange could be much different than in the USA.

The exchange rate as referenced here, is derived in paring two currencies. So yeah the number of Euro I get is very different from the number of Baht I get for the same US dollar... but both will have the same value relative to my US dollar.... The gold chain I buy costing hundreds of thousands of Baht, and thousands of Euro, cost me the same 6000.00 dollars US, no matter what I converted it to before I bought it...

....(IQN from the IQD) and allow the new Iraq currency (IQN) to come out to the international exchanges with still the low initial rate then let the market drive it but also they needed a way to preserve a high value of the existing 3 zeros notes (IQD).

This seems to be a pivotal driver of the discussion. I can only hope, wish and pray it were true. And what I read in every economic discussion is the constant reassurance to the people that changing the currency will not result in losing value. That the same blanket costing 25,000 dinar will now cost 25 dinar. That losing the zeros on the notes does not mean the Iraqi has lost the value of what they can purchase. I saw this all over the EU when they switched over to the Euro. My 1000 lira bought the same bar of soap my new 1 euro bought. My money did not lose value in terms of what it could buy, when it lost the zeros on the lira, for the new euro.

 

I don't understand the separating thing and am not taking enough time to sort it maybe. I am clear that the IMF is crystal clear that Iraq shall not have two different currencies in play at the same time (not meaning notes, but currencies representing differing value). I can't tell, is this in line with the IMF?  I also don't know how that would work using the IQD for oil credits... unless the thought is that old notes now represent something called oil credit, and has no value as a currency.. and/or does not follow the rules of currency exchange rates... And the IMF does indeed detail all these categories of "value", but I haven't waded them them enough to see if there is a hocus pocus way to treat old IQD, by way of statute. On the surface however, there is not. And the US is already the ME broker in the sense all their oil is pegged to the USD. Though the brokering line of thought is interesting...Of course ya'll know I'm wondering who the "who" is that's going to drive all this oil movement in the direction desired...In any case, all the discussion of this stuff seems to fly in direct contradiction to the IMF rules and the IMF agreement Iraq signed about dual currencies (of differing exchange value).

 

The plan now is also to allow citizens 30 days to exchange the IQD dinar in your country of origin and then it will become obsolete as far as the banks for future exchanges from their citizens.

Don't think 30 days is long enough and but who knows.... And yes everyone can exchange... and at this point in the process... for what value? That's always been the question. If at this point in this process, there is an exchange of the multi zero notes for a value that has been adjusted to an exchange rate of even a penny at this point... I'd be dancing (okay, I dance easily)...

I can't follow this next section all that well.... is it saying the exchange would be IQD for IQN? (or the currency you prefer). And is the suggestion that IQD for IQN is better than USD, as the IQN will be exchanged for more USD in the long run...

There is even speculation that they issued some of this currency and it is in circulation already to a very limited extent and is being use as part of the money on the Qi Smart Cards in the ATMs.

Again, there is the assumption that the currency holds the value (versus represents it) and at this juncture, appears to be saying the value (exchange rate) is different than and greater than the previous currency.. which is still in play? Oh... looks like this is answered to some degree

So you can see the IQD and the IQN are going to be two different currencies on the exchanges but also have a connection to each other since one proceeds the other and they must coexist for an extended period of time until the IQN replaces fully the IQD.

This is actually not okay with the IMF and is specifically addressed in specific words to that effect, saying it will not be allowed, and which was signed by Iraq years ago and in force to present. No two currencies at the same time....oh, but I guess that pesky little requirement is not such a big deal?

The rates of exchange on the each currency will be different and you should now understand why this could be possible and why the necessity to do it this way. Don't worry so much or get all hung up about all the IMF currency rules. They make the rules so they can bend them anyway they want, if needed. After all this is a financial crisis is it not?

Call me madcap, but it seems if the IMF could cure a financial crisis by simply bending the rules that are intended to avoid an even greater crisis, I don't know that bending this particular rule, would be the one I'd choose (to cure the world crisis).

Its a bit disquieting to have to dismiss the specific IMF rule Iraq agreed to, in order to make this scenario work... Darn... I was hoping...

 

I guess for me the remaining question is, will Iraq increase the value of the exchange rate against the USD before decimalizing their currency (removing the zeros). And if they don't, what will be the new exchange rate reflecting value, represented by their new notes?

 

The entire ME is on fast track to become a paperless monetary system... I think it was Bahrain (or Dubai) that was recently the first to achieve this... there is no currency, only cards with value attached to them in that country. The rest of the ME is heavily focused on this goal...I think Iraq would like to move directly to cards if they could.. and wonder if some of the arguments are about new currency versus going direct to cards....And btw, the technology of some of these cards is jaw dropping amazing... like not requiring hardware POS to make a transaction.... They are way ahead of us ion this (which is way fine by me), and its not always accurate to view their system through the lens of transaction we use here.

 

I still like her attempts to connect the dots. I have no idea if my questions are critical points in this, or if they are drivers necessary to the logical progression of her overall thinking... I'm really not debating the validity of her assumptions, as much as addressing issues that conflict with some of her points along the way. Actually, I would love to hear that none of them matter in the overall scheme of things...

 

Thanks Rayzur as always great job in trying to figure out where her dots connected.  For the life of me, I can't and I have read it a couple of times.  Well she does admit they are talking about deleting zero's and a new currency as in IQN, that is new for a guru.  It seems rather fanciful in how we will be able to profit from it, but maybe I am missing something.

 

As you know I do believe Iraq does want a cashless society.  They gain control in all things good and evil.  They would have to print a hell of a lot less in dinar.  I still wonder if it is conceivably possible to change IQD to say IQN without printing a dinar and the change is done on the card?

 

Mountain Goat is intriguing, but I am not so sure that is because she told us she was in so many ways.  I still suspect she is Wife In the Know, I can't help myself.

[GGGECKO]

Would be nice if this took off next month. Seems like she put a lot of work into it but a bit leery of her being with the likes of TNT.

 

Go RV!!!!

[umbertino]

Not going to shoot your Ron----- tried to find a reference to his German friend he visited with and could only find a movie about 3 sisters.

 

 

 

Is it goat season though?

 

 

When the value changes --it will change for everyone. No incountry this and out of country that.

 

IMO, of course

Agreed.

Quote

Meine Schwesterns translates from German to 'my sisters'.

End Quote

And he / she americanized it by adding the final s... In proper German it would be " Meine Schwestern"

Edited September 17, 2013 by umbertino

[zigmeister]

 

Agreed.

Quote

Meine Schwesterns translates from German to 'my sisters'.

End Quote

And he / she americanized it by adding the final s... In proper German it would be " Meine Schwestern"

 

Interesting she would add the "s".  So there ya go!

[Rayzur]

 

Agreed.

Quote

Meine Schwesterns translates from German to 'my sisters'.

End Quote

And he / she americanized it by adding the final s... In proper German it would be " Meine Schwestern"

 

 

Good catch.... my brain automatically corrected and I missed it.... my sister refers to me all the time as meine schwester (as her singular)..and I should have caught it.... not a likely mistake in the plural for a native speaker... then again, I don't know that MtGt claims to be native?

I'm with Zig in not being so sure about the lass in the alps thing... and no, it doesn't matter on many levels and is really a chess game. a game  of intrigue, or puzzle solving ..... just one more puzzle within a puzzle... as most of this would be so otherwise tediously boring and droll I'd have to start drinking to deal with it... :lol:

[caz1104]

We are all guessing. But Mtn goat, does not say that. Mtn goat, spells out the entire process and makes the impression this is how it is, rather than, this is how it might be. Big difference

When you talk like you know exactly what's going on, your giving the idea you know rather than it might

That's my biggest problems with gurus. They don't say, now we don't know for sure, but here's how we think it might go down. Especially with deleting three zeroes. Deleting zeroes has never made anyone a profit, but they give the exact opposite meaning and say it, like its been validated. It's the cloudy waters, when their doesn't have to be.

You can be truthful with everyone, and speculate all day long

I'm the first to start thinking how a rv would have to be played. You have to see the endzone in this game. But be honest about what things mean, then give your version. Then give the speculation

Don't distort, mislead, or confuse. IMO, it's the only way to be honest

Its pretty much a given "guru's" are "dumb a**ess" that entertain at best. With that said why we continue to lambast them as if we expect something other than what we get is beyond me. They are what they are, self centered, attention grabbing idiots that would disappear if we ignored them. 

[larryk43]

Mountain Goat sounds more like a Jack A... Why would they ever post an RV rate of $3.44  this get's folks crazy thinking this RV is 100% a done deal and that is just not the case. 

 

The meaning of "Meine Schwesterns" is slang for sweetheart.  Absolutely no financial expert.

Good stuff, I was confused about what it meant - lol.

Its pretty much a given "guru's" are "dumb a**ess" that entertain at best. With that said why we continue to lambast them as if we expect something other than what we get is beyond me. They are what they are, self centered, attention grabbing idiots that would disappear if we ignored them. 

Well said!

Interesting she would add the "s".  So there ya go!

Interesting.  Good detective work.

Good catch.... my brain automatically corrected and I missed it.... my sister refers to me all the time as meine schwester (as her singular)..and I should have caught it.... not a likely mistake in the plural for a native speaker... then again, I don't know that MtGt claims to be native?

I'm with Zig in not being so sure about the lass in the alps thing... and no, it doesn't matter on many levels and is really a chess game. a game  of intrigue, or puzzle solving ..... just one more puzzle within a puzzle... as most of this would be so otherwise tediously boring and droll I'd have to start drinking to deal with it... :lol:

I agree.  She seemed to appear after TNT Tony and Okie were pumping and when nothing happened, then quieted down.  Do you notice how long and detailed every single post is?

[umbertino]

Its pretty much a given "guru's" are "dumb a**ess" that entertain at best. With that said why we continue to lambast them as if we expect something other than what we get is beyond me. They are what they are, self centered, attention grabbing idiots that would disappear if we ignored them. 

But do you think they get a monetary return out of  their hyping the masses? Just asking... I myself do not know to this day  if they do.. I tried to think of the process but it's way too complicated  ( impossible actually) to connect a specific dinar sale  ( a specific buyer) with a specific dealer to a specific guru....So I don't know.

Edited September 17, 2013 by umbertino

[caz1104]

But do you think they get a monetary return out of  their hyping the masses? Just asking... I myself do not know to this day  if they do.. I tried to think of the process but it's way too complicated  ( impossible actually) to connect a specific dinar sale  ( a specific buyer) with a specific dealer to a specific guru....So I don't know.

umbertino,

 

me I could care less if they get paid, without an audience its a moot point. Lawyers get paid, doctors get paid, car salesmen get paid, politicians get paid,..............etc the list is endless, some good some bad. I think we help them indirectly by making them relevant when we post or talk about them. Ignore them and they go away. Life is about choices..................don't complain about something you can control . I don't profess to have all the answers but this seems so simple imo. 

[zigmeister]

I would say they could get paid via on the dinar sellers employee list.  A monthly salary for working the people and dinar.

[caz1104]

Umbertino,

 

I was talking in general not to you directly,sorry about that.

[easyrider]

Sandstorm, imo your points are very well taken, and I appreciate the caution seasoned folks put out there, if nothing else, to give another perspective to someone considering going out to buy  a boatload of dinar they can't really afford... Don't know that we see that all that much any more, but have certainly watched a lot of that in past..

 

Having taken the time to look at this most recent post... there are indeed statements that are not accurate or are misleading, or kind of screwy.... for example, this is what jumps out for me and my understanding [which could be off]:

Here is why- the USA printed this currency, delivered this currency to Iraq and implemented it as a provisional currency. It is going to increase in value but not in the manner like everyone believes.

This seems to imply the currency holds the value, versus the more accurate represents the value, in terms of units required for a transaction.

It will have a much higher jump in value than the IQN initially depending on the country exchanging it. 

So for example if you are in Austria exchanging the rate of exchange could be much different than in the USA.

The exchange rate as referenced here, is derived in paring two currencies. So yeah the number of Euro I get is very different from the number of Baht I get for the same US dollar... but both will have the same value relative to my US dollar.... The gold chain I buy costing hundreds of thousands of Baht, and thousands of Euro, cost me the same 6000.00 dollars US, no matter what I converted it to before I bought it...

....(IQN from the IQD) and allow the new Iraq currency (IQN) to come out to the international exchanges with still the low initial rate then let the market drive it but also they needed a way to preserve a high value of the existing 3 zeros notes (IQD).

This seems to be a pivotal driver of the discussion. I can only hope, wish and pray it were true. And what I read in every economic discussion is the constant reassurance to the people that changing the currency will not result in losing value. That the same blanket costing 25,000 dinar will now cost 25 dinar. That losing the zeros on the notes does not mean the Iraqi has lost the value of what they can purchase. I saw this all over the EU when they switched over to the Euro. My 1000 lira bought the same bar of soap my new 1 euro bought. My money did not lose value in terms of what it could buy, when it lost the zeros on the lira, for the new euro.

 

I don't understand the separating thing and am not taking enough time to sort it maybe. I am clear that the IMF is crystal clear that Iraq shall not have two different currencies in play at the same time (not meaning notes, but currencies representing differing value). I can't tell, is this in line with the IMF?  I also don't know how that would work using the IQD for oil credits... unless the thought is that old notes now represent something called oil credit, and has no value as a currency.. and/or does not follow the rules of currency exchange rates... And the IMF does indeed detail all these categories of "value", but I haven't waded them them enough to see if there is a hocus pocus way to treat old IQD, by way of statute. On the surface however, there is not. And the US is already the ME broker in the sense all their oil is pegged to the USD. Though the brokering line of thought is interesting...Of course ya'll know I'm wondering who the "who" is that's going to drive all this oil movement in the direction desired...In any case, all the discussion of this stuff seems to fly in direct contradiction to the IMF rules and the IMF agreement Iraq signed about dual currencies (of differing exchange value).

 

The plan now is also to allow citizens 30 days to exchange the IQD dinar in your country of origin and then it will become obsolete as far as the banks for future exchanges from their citizens.

Don't think 30 days is long enough and but who knows.... And yes everyone can exchange... and at this point in the process... for what value? That's always been the question. If at this point in this process, there is an exchange of the multi zero notes for a value that has been adjusted to an exchange rate of even a penny at this point... I'd be dancing (okay, I dance easily)...

I can't follow this next section all that well.... is it saying the exchange would be IQD for IQN? (or the currency you prefer). And is the suggestion that IQD for IQN is better than USD, as the IQN will be exchanged for more USD in the long run...

There is even speculation that they issued some of this currency and it is in circulation already to a very limited extent and is being use as part of the money on the Qi Smart Cards in the ATMs.

Again, there is the assumption that the currency holds the value (versus represents it) and at this juncture, appears to be saying the value (exchange rate) is different than and greater than the previous currency.. which is still in play? Oh... looks like this is answered to some degree

So you can see the IQD and the IQN are going to be two different currencies on the exchanges but also have a connection to each other since one proceeds the other and they must coexist for an extended period of time until the IQN replaces fully the IQD.

This is actually not okay with the IMF and is specifically addressed in specific words to that effect, saying it will not be allowed, and which was signed by Iraq years ago and in force to present. No two currencies at the same time....oh, but I guess that pesky little requirement is not such a big deal?

The rates of exchange on the each currency will be different and you should now understand why this could be possible and why the necessity to do it this way. Don't worry so much or get all hung up about all the IMF currency rules. They make the rules so they can bend them anyway they want, if needed. After all this is a financial crisis is it not?

Call me madcap, but it seems if the IMF could cure a financial crisis by simply bending the rules that are intended to avoid an even greater crisis, I don't know that bending this particular rule, would be the one I'd choose (to cure the world crisis).

Its a bit disquieting to have to dismiss the specific IMF rule Iraq agreed to, in order to make this scenario work... Darn... I was hoping...

 

I guess for me the remaining question is, will Iraq increase the value of the exchange rate against the USD before decimalizing their currency (removing the zeros). And if they don't, what will be the new exchange rate reflecting value, represented by their new notes?

 

The entire ME is on fast track to become a paperless monetary system... I think it was Bahrain (or Dubai) that was recently the first to achieve this... there is no currency, only cards with value attached to them in that country. The rest of the ME is heavily focused on this goal...I think Iraq would like to move directly to cards if they could.. and wonder if some of the arguments are about new currency versus going direct to cards....And btw, the technology of some of these cards is jaw dropping amazing... like not requiring hardware POS to make a transaction.... They are way ahead of us ion this (which is way fine by me), and its not always accurate to view their system through the lens of transaction we use here.

 

I still like her attempts to connect the dots. I have no idea if my questions are critical points in this, or if they are drivers necessary to the logical progression of her overall thinking... I'm really not debating the validity of her assumptions, as much as addressing issues that conflict with some of her points along the way. Actually, I would love to hear that none of them matter in the overall scheme of things...

 

by 2016 we will be a cashless society for most countries. Kuwait is bringing out new currency October 6th and its plastic also Canada, Australia, and UK will follow as well and eventually be cashless by 2016.

Edited September 17, 2013 by easyrider