Exactly what we were talking about GUN CONTROL!

[dontlop]

AFTER THE RIOTS; LOS ANGELES RIOTS SPURRING BIG RISE IN SALES OF GUNS

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/14/us/after-the-riots-los-angeles-riots-spurring-big-rise-in-sales-of-guns.html

[txcountryman]

Has anyone heard about the guy in San Antonio that was stopped by an armed security guard? If he wouldn't have been armed there's not telling how many people he could have killed. But guess what. Not a single person died! This happened at a movie theater/ mall. Google it. Nothing about it on the news

SAN ANTONIO -- A man was shot by an off-duty deputy after investigators say he opened fire at a South Side theater Sunday night, injuring one person.

Authorities said 19-year-old Jesus Manuel Garcia showed up at the China Garden restaurant on Southwest Military Drive around 9:30 p.m. Sunday and opened fire. Investigators say Garcia works at the restaurant and believe the shooting may have had something to do with the breakup with his girlfriend, who also works at the restaurant. The girlfriend was not at the restaurant at the time of the shooting.

The employees inside the restaurant fled out a side door into the parking lot. Investigators said Garcia began chasing the employees and continued firing at them as they ran through the parking lot and into the Mayan Palace Theatre next door.

As Garcia was running through the parking lot, he shot the windshield of a San Antonio Police patrol car after an officer in the car shined a spotlight on him. The officer was not injured.

Garcia then ran inside the movie theater, where he continued his search for the restaurant employees. Movie-goers in the lobby, bathroom, and some theaters reported hearing multiple gunshots. The gunshots caused people inside the theater to panic.

"Everybody was just coming out of the side of the theater, running out the emergency exits. And everyone was screaming and running," a woman who was at the theater told us.

Authorities said one person was shot by Garcia.

Garcia was finally stopped by an off-duty Bexar County Sheriff's Department officer who was working security at the theater. Officials said the officer, Sgt. Lisa Castellano, heard the gunfire inside the theater and ran towards the sound of the shooting to find out what was going on. Sgt. Castellano spotted Garcia coming out of a bathroom with his gun drawn and fired at him, shooting him four times.

"The officer involved, she took the appropriate action to try to keep everyone safe in the movie theater," Bexar County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Detective Lou Antu said.

An off-duty San Antonio Independent School District officer who was also at the theater helped take Garcia into custody.

The man who was shot by Garcia was taken to a hospital and is said to be in stable condition.

Garcia has since undergone surgery and is in stable condition at San Antonio Military Medical Center (SAMMC). He has been charged with attempted capital murder and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. His bond has been set at $10 million.

[Bumper64]

This about says it all!!!!!

[DinarMillionaire]

Yep Bumper, those few words say so much.

The arms referred to by the Second Amendment and the founders of this country are the arms necessary for the free people of America to be able to hold their governments unbridled appetite for power in check and to resist invaders when called upon to serve in the militia in defense of our country, state or community. If the arms of the soldiers of this era are automatic rifles, machine guns and sub-machine guns then it is the right, in fact the obligation, for the citizens of this country to possess such arms themselves. It is laughable on its face, as some have stated, that the Second Amendment would grant to us the right to only have flintlocks or muskets, such weapons as were in use at the time of our countries founding, to defend ourselves against an armed force raised by the government to oppress us, or to defend against an invading enemy.

[Bumper64]

[Nelg]

Get several quickly.

Hide them securely.

Train thoroughly.

Shut your mouth.

Register one.

Keep for protection.

Train thoroughly.

Shut your mouth.

Maintain control.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/136983-congressional-backing-grows-for-gun-control-debate/#ixzz2FSgSbBIP

[Patty B]

So I guess this buffoon thinks his life and the

lives of his family is worth more than mine!

Think again ~ we are buying a gun tomorrow!

Before it's too late!

[RodandStaff]

When our loved ones are harmed by guns. Firearm violence shoots up to number 1 in our view.

In my opinion it is ok to own guns, just not assault weapons.

Why would you need it. . .for hunting? I don't think so.

I don't get how private citizens can legally own such "weapons of mass destruction"!

If you're not in the military, why do you need it?

I'm just say'n!

Technically.... according to military standards they are not assault weapons. They just look like them... they are no different than any other semi-auto that any deer hunter can own. They are just a cheap "knock-off" of the it's bigger brother that the military uses. The military guns often come with three shot burst's with one trigger pull... few guns have full automatic status anymore... too hard to control the bullet consumption. This coming from a local military representative in our area. It's all ridiculous hype according to him.

In reality a shot gun or any regular deer rifle could have done as much damage... but then so could a car driven up on the side walk at a school crossing, or as in China where a man wounded over 20 people with a knife. Guns aren't the problem... sick twisted people are... don't try to put a band-aid on the real issues.... this is a moral dilemma imo, not a gun issue.

[Rayzur]

Technically.... according to military standards they are not assault weapons. They just look like them... they are no different than any other semi-auto that any deer hunter can own. They are just a cheap "knock-off" of the it's bigger brother that the military uses. The military guns often come with three shot burst's with one trigger pull... few guns have full automatic status anymore... too hard to control the bullet consumption. This coming from a local military representative in our area. It's all ridiculous hype according to him.

this is a moral dilemma imo, not a gun issue.

Confirming your reps response with my experience,... its called tri-burst and most states official response MP3 or MP5 in addition to military are configured this way.

And nicely put, its a moral dilemma.... which in many ways would include I would think, our decision as a country to go into another country and kill, maim, or irreparably injure hundreds if not thousands of infants, toddlers and children.... And most certainly one death does not make another death right... And I sincerely hope that whoever is examining this issue, is conscious about where they are drawing the line in terms of what is okay and what is collateral damage in fighting for freedom, liberty and what is right.......

(and no I am not an insensitive brute.... quite the contrary.... I am asking why there is not this degree of upset when we in the name of this country engender far worse, yet decide it necessary in the name of freedom, democracy, and what is right)....

[Maggie123]

Agree Rayzur... Rep + 1

You said what I have been thinking but couldn't get into words as well as you just did.

Thank You.

[dontlop]

if you never saw a kid spaz out because mommy took his game controller off him .. this forum is how these kids grow up ...

Fallout 3 and killing children ..>>> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1365085

some of these posters are not happy that they cannot kill children in their video games

they get really attached to their games .. it takes a mental toll on them ..

a gun sitting in their parents closet doesnt teach them anything

it must be hard playing against a computer and never being able to win .. ... and you almost get their and mommy comes in and pulls the plug .. right when you almost won .. and had to start over ..yes those pesky kids ..ya just cant kill them .. and mommy only cares about those kids at school .. ..some were complaining they blow up a building and three kids come walking out of the fire ..

i guess this kid had a dungen like room in his basement that he played these games ..

any way we all know what happened .. the kid was a nut to begin with .. the games may of done more to him, than a normal kid ..

i guess this is still unfolding .. about his violent games life in his basement .. i wonder if he would sit up all night trying shooting people on his computer or gaming machines ..till he finally flipped out

theres lots of hits if you....... google ... video games killing children .......... plenty of nuts still out there

[Trac y S]

I do agree that this is a mental health issue, but I also have questions:

Mental Health:

1) When someone in the house has a diagnosed mental health issue or goes on MAOI's/psychoactive drugs in the household, I think the right to possess firearms should be lifted. This restriction could be lifted based on completion of treatment, etc., and with the coordination of law enforcement and the medical community. Frankly, if that person moved out/was removed from the home, then gun possession should be again authorized. I have a lot of people I know that are on anti-depressants, and I don't think any of them should have access to guns;

2) Even if Adam's mother's guns were in a gun safe/under lock, he could have coerced her to provide the combination or found another way into the safe to get the guns;

3) I understand that this woman was well taken care of with base alimony of $300,000 per year and she collected guns. I don't know of many women who are interested in collecting guns -- especially not primary school educators that are female -- this doesn't add up to me in light of the fact that she was collecting some pretty aggressive hand guns -- semi auto's -- and a bushmaster, for crying out loud? I don't have many women I know that do have guns/shoot for recreation/protection and possess a Bushmaster. Strange for a woman teacher.

4) I know that the integration of medical records is happening due to the socialization of our medical system; Microsoft developed the platform for the US Govt to manage ObamaCare. With that in mind, access to medical records, even with HIPPA, will now be nationalized and under govt control. That means that when you go to apply for a gun license / background check, for gun ownership, these records could be available for review prior to okaying the background check -- maybe public safety benefits 'cause I'd sure rather catch someone with mental health issues at this stage than not now.

5) This same data should be checked when a person goes to buy ammo for their handgun -- if you don't own the gun, you don't get to buy the ammo -- period.

6) Gun safety required for all approved gun owners -- and recertification every so many years -- for God's sake, we do this with a driver's license / as the driver gets older even more frequently. Why should we do any less for a gun owner -- both can become weapons in the wrong hands and it would also be a way to recertify through another background check that an individual hasn't gone "off the tracks" or is not monitored on some regular interval. Just this year in WA state where I live, I now have to license my cats each year -- revenue for the county. Maybe this is a way to help our deficit issues and reinforce the responsibilities of gun ownership.

7) Our history in the US is violent. The Old West wasn't settled by nice families/settlers; it was settled by mostly adventurers, opportunists, people of ill repute. The idea of a teacher carrying concealed weapons isn't new. In Virginia City, NV.. back in the 1860's, the male school teacher who presided over the only school wore six guns as he taught class each day -- what does that tell you about our world even back then?

Just some thoughts I have had. I do believe we are being marched to a drum of gaining more and more control over the populace here in the States especially, and I don't like it, but I still believe that the above ideas have value, should be considered / discussed, and we won't prevent all tragedies in the future, but we can certainly be more diligent in the face of "firearms gone wild" and unmonitored.

[Rayzur]

Off the top of my head, these are some of the responses that come to mind....

I do agree that this is a mental health issue, but I also have questions:

Mental Health:

1) When someone in the house has a diagnosed mental health issue or goes on MAOI's/psychoactive drugs in the household, I think the right to possess firearms should be lifted. This restriction could be lifted based on completion of treatment, etc., and with the coordination of law enforcement and the medical community. Frankly, if that person moved out/was removed from the home, then gun possession should be again authorized. I have a lot of people I know that are on anti-depressants, and I don't think any of them should have access to guns;

This is a can of ugly worms.... Taking guns based up a Mental Health Dx is a slippery slope from hell. First there is no psychodiagnostic test that determines whether or not a person is safe with a gun or should own one. The background check in place in most states, captures the most accurate info in terms of prediction meaning, the only currently recognized "proven" predictor of violence is past behavior of violence. There is no psych test for this. Secondly I can't remember the exact number but its somewhere around 300 different diagnoses for mental illness. Given there is no predictive test, which mental illnesses would you restrict. Obviously, most would select the formal thought disorders (schizophrenia)... And most schizophrenics can barely feed and clothe themselves absent assistance, and very few... apply to register a gun.

With anti-depressants, there is something to be said about that with huge caveats... Depends upon where in the cycle you are talking and the degree or depth of depression and age... Paradoxically.. the reason many younger folk went on anti-depressants and then killed someone or themselves, was because the anti-depressant worked so well. (yup). So instead of being deeply depressed, they a start coming out of it... and get enough psychic energy to then act on their anger, (self or externally directed)... So two things... 1)The most dangerous time for suicide (and less likely homicide with depression) is within the first two weeks of beginning anti-depressants. All docs know this, (or frickin should) and have the legal obligation to actually monitor this very closely, including reporting the possibility of danger to self or others.... Also, kids seemed to respond too well to some of the meds (e.g., prozac), so there is a black box label on that med for kids under 18. Its no longer typically given to that age group (along with several others).

2) Even if Adam's mother's guns were in a gun safe/under lock, he could have coerced her to provide the combination or found another way into the safe to get the guns;

If my son who is 6'3", even remotely makes a gesture implying coercion to open a safe with guns, my first call would be 911 and the second call would be to find suitable housing for him. Finding one's way into a good safe, is pretty much an oxymoron, unless they make extreme effort to learn safe cracking.. and even then, I'm not so sure.

3) I understand that this woman was well taken care of with base alimony of $300,000 per year and she collected guns. I don't know of many women who are interested in collecting guns -- especially not primary school educators that are female -- this doesn't add up to me in light of the fact that she was collecting some pretty aggressive hand guns -- semi auto's -- and a bushmaster, for crying out loud? I don't have many women I know that do have guns/shoot for recreation/protection and possess a Bushmaster. Strange for a woman teacher.

Dear one, you need to get out more. How many among your friends were born and raised one and two states over next to you? Actually, those born and raised in the northwest outside urban areas. Any women who are in law enforcement, military, or competitive shooting in your life? I don't know of hardly any women who don't own guns where I was raised, including my mother, step-mother grandmother, great grand mother, aunts and cousins... and my step-mom was a teacher, ending up a principle for years. Where I was raised, gun cabinets filled the entire wall of huge dens, and both the men and women of the house, along with their kids stored them together as the family collection.

I can also tell you for a fact that a famous actress married to a famous director had one of the most incredible amazing gun collections I have ever seen in my life. She like many saw them as art forms, and could not get enough in terms of their manifest artistic expression... It was like experiencing a room full of Monet's work...

4) I know that the integration of medical records is happening due to the socialization of our medical system; Microsoft developed the platform for the US Govt to manage ObamaCare. With that in mind, access to medical records, even with HIPPA, will now be nationalized and under govt control. That means that when you go to apply for a gun license / background check, for gun ownership, these records could be available for review prior to okaying the background check --Anything is possible however, at this time, that is not the case. HIPPA regulations are laborious extensive and would not permit this on so many levels (at this time). The law would literally have to be changed in order to provide this walk across without huge butt kicking penalty. maybe public safety benefits 'cause I'd sure rather catch someone with mental health issues at this stage than not now. Slippery slope, study Russia, Siberia, and the Gulags for excellent examples of how easily this can be corrupted and essentially used to justify whatever you want the result to be.

5) This same data should be checked when a person goes to buy ammo for their handgun -- if you don't own the gun, you don't get to buy the ammo -- period. That is another angle being attempted to control guns.

6) Gun safety required for all approved gun owners -- and recertification every so many years -- for God's sake, we do this with a driver's license / as the driver gets older even more frequently. Why should we do any less for a gun owner -- both can become weapons in the wrong hands and it would also be a way to recertify through another background check that an individual hasn't gone "off the tracks" or is not monitored on some regular interval. Just this year in WA state where I live, I now have to license my cats each year -- revenue for the county. Maybe this is a way to help our deficit issues and reinforce the responsibilities of gun ownership.

Hopefully every gun owner goes to the range 4 times a year and brushes up.

7) Our history in the US is violent. The Old West wasn't settled by nice families/settlers; it was settled by mostly adventurers, opportunists, people of ill repute. The idea of a teacher carrying concealed weapons isn't new. In Virginia City, NV.. back in the 1860's, the male school teacher who presided over the only school wore six guns as he taught class each day -- what does that tell you about our world even back then?

Just some thoughts I have had. I do believe we are being marched to a drum of gaining more and more control over the populace here in the States especially, and I don't like it, but I still believe that the above ideas have value, should be considered / discussed, and we won't prevent all tragedies in the future, but we can certainly be more diligent in the face of "firearms gone wild" and unmonitored.

[dontlop]

NANCY LANZA TAUGHT HER SON TO SHOOT GUNS

Various reports suggest that Nancy was a “survivalist” and was preparing for the end of the world due to the economic downturn and was stockpiling on food, water, and other items. She allegedly taught Adam how to shoot a gun, perhaps in preparation for the event.

Adam shot his mother in the face that day, several times, while she laid in bed, before stealing her three guns, and heading to the school. It appears as though Nancy may have been asleep when she was shot dead.

this would explain all the ammo he had .. if she was stock piling it

[RodandStaff]

7) Our history in the US is violent. The Old West wasn't settled by nice families/settlers; it was settled by mostly adventurers, opportunists, people of ill repute. The idea of a teacher carrying concealed weapons isn't new. In Virginia City, NV.. back in the 1860's, the male school teacher who presided over the only school wore six guns as he taught class each day -- what does that tell you about our world even back then?

Rayzur... you did such an awesome job on the first point's but you left out #7... pardon me if I add my on that one!!!

"Our history in the US is violent?" I would dare say that the past 100 years have been some of the most violent in the history of the entire planet. WWI, WWII, countless other wars and rumors of wars. "Millions" killed in Russia, China, Germany... and you think a teacher carrying a gun to protect their students in violent??? I'm sorry... but what Nirvana have you mistaken this "violent" planet for?

According to Voice of the Martyrs more Christians have died for their faith in the past 50 years than in the past 2000 years. Then of course their is the most dangerous place to be on the planet... in the womb... where millions each year will never see the light of day.

I am an avid Louis L'Amour fan and he intertwines a fact in one of his books where a revengeful killer got the drop on a teacher after their little country school let out one day... and most of the "kids" pulled guns on him. That's when the would be killer got a revelation...he realized it wasn't healthy to attack the teacher when there were so many carrying guns. It wasn't just the teachers back in the frontier who had guns... it was the students as well who carried guns. It was a dangerous time to live... almost as dangerous as now!!!

It's time to wake up out of our slumber... this life isn't the idyllic peaceful little Mayberry we were led to believe it is. Freedom isn't free... it comes with a cost. Life is risky... and very dangerous... but imo worth protecting. As long as we live in this fallen world... imo, we will never know real peace... until the Prince of Peace returns. In the meantime... Louis L'Amour's quote "trust in the Lord... and keep your powder dry" definitely still applies today!!!

[Shabibilicious]

Last week, people were angry with the teachers union for striking.......This week, people want to arm them. I would guess a pay raise would be in order. As always, just my opinion.

GO RV, then BV

[nstoolman1]

Rayzur... you did such an awesome job on the first point's but you left out #7... pardon me if I add my on that one!!!

"Our history in the US is violent?" I would dare say that the past 100 years have been some of the most violent in the history of the entire planet. WWI, WWII, countless other wars and rumors of wars. "Millions" killed in Russia, China, Germany... and you think a teacher carrying a gun to protect their students in violent??? I'm sorry... but what Nirvana have you mistaken this "violent" planet for?

According to Voice of the Martyrs more Christians have died for their faith in the past 50 years than in the past 2000 years. Then of course their is the most dangerous place to be on the planet... in the womb... where millions each year will never see the light of day.

I am an avid Louis L'Amour fan and he intertwines a fact in one of his books where a revengeful killer got the drop on a teacher after their little country school let out one day... and most of the "kids" pulled guns on him. That's when the would be killer got a revelation...he realized it wasn't healthy to attack the teacher when there were so many carrying guns. It wasn't just the teachers back in the frontier who had guns... it was the students as well who carried guns. It was a dangerous time to live... almost as dangerous as now!!!

It's time to wake up out of our slumber... this life isn't the idyllic peaceful little Mayberry we were led to believe it is. Freedom isn't free... it comes with a cost. Life is risky... and very dangerous... but imo worth protecting. As long as we live in this fallen world... imo, we will never know real peace... until the Prince of Peace returns. In the meantime... Louis L'Amour's quote "trust in the Lord... and keep your powder dry" definitely still applies today!!!

Amen

Can you tell I approve?

[mlmfan]

A good friend and fellow police officer related this to me...

He was sitting in his car near a school Monday, trying to just be visible and maybe allay some of the fears of many of the students. Here is his statement to me of an interaction with a passing motorist...

"I had a guy stop and talk to me as I sat in my car by the High School today. He thanked me for being there and I said that I thought police presence might be comforting around the schools right now. What he then said blew me away...

He said that, sure, "Sandy Hook might be horrible and all", but he said that, "In the end it was really a good thing".

A "GOOD THING", that "MIGHT" be horrible! My God!

He said it might make everyone else realize what he already knew, that guns have no place in civilian's hands!"

My friends, this is the mind-set we are fighting.

[relax]

I think Chris Rock said it best; " It aint guns or people that kill people its the bullets!" If a bullet cost $5000.00 the bad guys would think twice before shooting a single bullet.

Kinda solves the whole GUN CONTROL thing.

[dog53]

I think Chris Rock said it best; " It aint guns or people that kill people its the bullets!" If a bullet cost $5000.00 the bad guys would think twice before shooting a single bullet.

Kinda solves the whole GUN CONTROL thing.

Wow you solved it.

Edited December 19, 2012 by dog53

[FlyHi]

Wow you solved it.

You go Dog

Sarcasm at its best

[DiveDeepSix]

A good friend and fellow police officer related this to me...

He was sitting in his car near a school Monday, trying to just be visible and maybe allay some of the fears of many of the students. Here is his statement to me of an interaction with a passing motorist...

"I had a guy stop and talk to me as I sat in my car by the High School today. He thanked me for being there and I said that I thought police presence might be comforting around the schools right now. What he then said blew me away...

He said that, sure, "Sandy Hook might be horrible and all", but he said that, "In the end it was really a good thing".

A "GOOD THING", that "MIGHT" be horrible! My God!

He said it might make everyone else realize what he already knew, that guns have no place in civilian's hands!"

My friends, this is the mind-set we are fighting.

That would be exactly why I think the government has had something to do with all the gun violence lately. It pushes their agenda of gun control and now they have the public outcry leaning in their direction, not good. :angry:/> Anyone who truly believes our government has our best interests in mind needs to change their bong water!

Edited December 19, 2012 by DiveDeepSix