Children shot and killed at Connecticut school: report Reuters – 7 mins ago

[LIBoy]

I find it rather disturbing that people have to turn this into a second amendment issue. Why can't we show these people the respect they deserve and keep the thread about them and not our own selfish agenda's. There are 20 families very close to where I live who had their 5 or 6 year old child murdered today. Twenty families who will never see their child again. Twenty families who will FOREVER be missing a piece of their heart. Twenty families who will have to do something with unopened holiday gifts. Twenty families who will have to clean up the bedroom of a child who will never sleep in that bed again or wear those clothes again or dream of a future that was limitless 12 hours ago but now is gone forever.

The second amendment talk can happen another day. Today we need to ONLY bow our heads and pray to God that he watch over and protect these people and help them get through a pain that I can't even begin to imagine.

[Rayzur]

I find it rather disturbing that people have to turn this into a second amendment issue. Why can't we show these people the respect they deserve and keep the thread about them and not our own selfish agenda's. There are 20 families very close to where I live who had their 5 or 6 year old child murdered today. Twenty families who will never see their child again. Twenty families who will FOREVER be missing a piece of their heart. Twenty families who will have to do something with unopened holiday gifts. Twenty families who will have to clean up the bedroom of a child who will never sleep in that bed again or wear those clothes again or dream of a future that was limitless 12 hours ago but now is gone forever.

The second amendment talk can happen another day. Today we need to ONLY bow our heads and pray to God that he watch over and protect these people and help them get through a pain that I can't even begin to imagine.

LIBoy, with all respect due, we gotta give people the space to deal with this the way that works best for them. Not everyone can do that the way that perhaps works best for you. For some people such tragic news involving little ones is so incredibly painful they have to distance themselves a bit from that pain, yet still want to participate.... of those there are many who work through this kind of tragedy or news this tragic by activity or movement and they go to a place of immediately wanting to prevent this from happening again. For some people dealing with this by actively searching for answers to prevent further occurance is how they best cope... LiLBoy, we can't all do it the same way.... we don't all do it the same way... and just because someone does not do it our way, does not make them wrong or selfish, or less sensitive to the horror of this tragedy... indeed I would suggest they are perhaps more sensitive than not.

Now if someone is in here agitating for pure reason of agenda, and to stir up debate and nothing more.... and therein completely insensitive to the pain of the surviving children, siblings and parents... I would agree that this is not the place. However, I see nothing in the comments of the long-standing DV members commenting in any single post that suggests anything more than individuals attempting to cope with this information in the way that works best for them. And we will not ever all look the same in how we do that.

Blessings ~~

[Bumper64]

My only argument to what you are saying here is that in that report it doesn't actually state how many children were actually killed.

The problem with the argument comparing gun deaths to "knives, cars, alcohol etc" is the efficiency that guns have when used for their primary purpose. Killing. When guns are used for their primary purpose they are very, very, effective and efficient.

I shudder to think of setting schools up like prisons, with fences and lockdowns and metal detectors. When you're a kid, it's supposed to be a time of freedom and excitement and adventure and exploration. To be bringing kids up in an environment where they are scared to go outside, or see fences and barricades is to instill fear in the children.

The point I was trying to make with my statement is that when people make up their minds to carry out these kind of crimes you can take away their guns and they will find other means to carry out their crimes. (guns,knives,fire,poison,bombs etc.....)

As for making our schools a fortress. I am all for it if it keeps my kids safe

High fence around the school with only one access to the parking lot is through a security guard

All outside doors can only be opened by teachers and staff so all outsiders have to come through the front door and have a guard there also

Metal detectors at the school enterence is a option

Hove the doors of the classrooms made like the ones they put in plane cockpits, special keys to access from the halls but can easily be opened from the inside in case of a fire.

Hire our ex military, retired law enforcement officers to help backup a couple on duty officers during school hours

Just thinking out loud here but it is a fact that something needs to be changed to protect our kids

[dontlop]

i agree bumper ..

100 million weapons in the united states out number the ones that go foul ...if it was overwhelming numbers that are killing innocent people that would be another thing.. but in comparison .. the good guys are winning this battle

because someone gets killed in a car .. ya dont get rid of all the cars .... or when an aircraft is used to kill people ya dont get rid of the aircraft .. the aircraft didnt kill any one . the person did

Edited December 15, 2012 by dontlop

[jobug38]

The problem is Shab is that if nuts like this want to get guns, they will get them one way or another. This is so sad! Praying for the families of these children!

The problem is they were all legally bought guns that belonged to the 20 year olds mom. She was shot dead before the principal counselor and children were. That's why I have locks on my guns that has one key and only I know where it is. Plus the guns are locked in a gun cabinet which is also locked at all times. This is so sad, I mourn for the families of the victims. So innocent! I had a really good friend get shot by horsing around the his best friends dad's gun he left this world at the age of 13. God be with him and these people in Connecticut!

[TonyDownTheShore]

Tony - I'm not sure what states you are referring to "down south". I live in Texas and you can't just walk into any Walmart & come out with a gun 5 minutes later. We DO have background checks down here. Of course, the criminals (as stated above) can stand on any street corner in any state and get a gun whenever they choose. So tightening the gun laws on law-abiding citizens is defintely NOT the answer. You have your head in the sand. Wake up - we all need to be armed, then the crazies might think twice before trying something like this.

And yep, I gave you a negative - you earned it. And no, I'm not gunning for you. Just happen to strongly disagree with you. But our Constitution gives you the right to voice your opinion, and gives me the right to arm myself - both of these freedoms need to remain in tact. I'm like Bumper, I'm armed the minute I step outside my door. Well, actually, I'm armed inside my home also. We need more stable, mature, armed citizens to help protect the innocent. The criminals are already armed - and the police are having just about as much success controlling that as they are drugs. Laws are for the law-abiding, not the bad guys. You people need to wake-up!

I have family members and friends in law inforcement, They tell me a lot of the guns they take off the street were sold down south, now where down south I don't know.

Now the neg you gave me shows your character, I have disagreed almost this whole thread and not one neg from me.

[easyrider]

Here's a picture of 20 year old Adam Lanza younger brother of Ryan Lanza (Ryan Lanza is NOT the shooter and was at work while this happened) media got it wrong.

Connecticut Shooter Adam Lanza: 'Obviously Not Well'

By BRIAN ROSS and RICHARD ESPOSITO | Good Morning America – 7 hours ago

• 

Adam Lanza, the 20-year-old who killed 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut this morning, was "obviously not well," a relative told ABC News.

Family friends in Newtown also described the young man as troubled and described his mother Nancy as very rigid. "[Adam] was not connected with the other kids," said one friend.

Late today, police said Nancy Lanza's body was found in the family home. According to sources, Lanza shot his mother in the face, then left the house armed with at least two semi-automatic handguns and a semi-automatic rifle.

State and federal authorities believe his mother may have once worked at the elementary school where Adam went on his deadly rampage, although she was not a teacher, according to relatives, perhaps a volunteer.

As part of the investigation authorities searched the New Jersey apartment of Adam's older brother Ryan in Hoboken, New Jersey.

Police had initially identified Ryan as the killer, until he sent out a series of Facebook posts saying it wasn't him and that he was at work all day.

Sources told ABC News that Ryan, 24, works as a senior person in Ernst and Young's tax practice in Manhattan.

"He's a tax guy and he is clean as a whistle," a source familiar with his work said.

Ryan has worked at the firm 4 years.

Today the NYPD and FBI went to Ernst & Young and removed Ryan's laptop and other possessions, which is part of the normal investigative process.

Officials were interviewing Ryan and his father, but neither person was under any suspicion, multiple sources said.

MORE: 27 Dead, Mostly Children, at Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

LIVE UPDATES: Newton, Conn. School Shooting

Edited December 15, 2012 by easyrider

[MrFnHappy]

Brother I hear what you are saying but if you give me $50 I can go to any street corner and purchase you a weapon!!

I AGREE 100% ON THE STIFFER BACKGROUND CHECKS!!

It's sad

There ya' go Bumper....this is what those who advocate stiffer gun laws DON'T understand. The only ones that will be left without guns will only be the law biding citizens.

Unfortunately, I can't say I have the answer, and I don't see any easy fix, but I'm sure that squashing our constitutional rights isn't going to fix it.

I've had a concealed weapon permit for 33 years in multiple states including New York, and I, for one, appreciate the right to carry.

As they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I personally don't leave home without one.

[tigerstripes]

The point I was trying to make with my statement is that when people make up their minds to carry out these kind of crimes you can take away their guns and they will find other means to carry out their crimes. (guns,knives,fire,poison,bombs etc.....)

As for making our schools a fortress. I am all for it if it keeps my kids safe

High fence around the school with only one access to the parking lot is through a security guard

All outside doors can only be opened by teachers and staff so all outsiders have to come through the front door and have a guard there also

Metal detectors at the school enterence is a option

Hove the doors of the classrooms made like the ones they put in plane cockpits, special keys to access from the halls but can easily be opened from the inside in case of a fire.

Hire our ex military, retired law enforcement officers to help backup a couple on duty officers during school hours

Just thinking out loud here but it is a fact that something needs to be changed to protect our kids

I agree that they may find other ways. I don't necessarily agree that the other ways will be as efficient. It's the numbers that really make these cases so shocking. That is in no-one meant to say that somebody killing one or two people isn't as bad - of course it is.

I have no data to back it up, but I don't believe mass poisonings are generally the method of choice for otherwise normal people who suddenly go off the rails though. Generally they will take whatever action is easiest and can create the most damage. At the moment - easy access to military style weapons suits their need.

Home made bombs, and again I'm no expert, but I would think that home made bombs need something (chemical, explosive device) to make them work. Would alarm bells be raised if somebody who had no relationship to farming or agriculture was suddenly buying lots of chemical fertilizer? I would certainly hope so.

I don't much like thinking too greatly about what is going on in the head of people who commit actions like mass shootings. Maybe they're just born bad. Maybe something happens to otherwise normal people that sends them over the edge. In cases like that they will generally turn to whatever method is easiest for them to vent their anger against the world.

The argument about people using aeroplanes is another example. It happened on 9/11 and what were the results with regard to security? There were very strict measures put in place to mitigate against that sort of thing happening again. Why? Probably because we all agree that in the wrong hands, aeroplanes can cause devastation on a massive scale.

I, much like everybody else at the moment, am just looking for answers and solutions.

I understand what you're saying about security in schools. I really do. I just find it abhorrent that we now feel the need to keep our kids under lock and key.

[Bumper64]

There ya' go Bumper....this is what those who advocate stiffer gun laws DON'T understand. The only ones that will be left without guns will only be the law biding citizens.

Unfortunately, I can't say I have the answer, and I don't see any easy fix, but I'm sure that squashing our constitutional rights isn't going to fix it.

I've had a concealed weapon permit for 33 years in multiple states including New York, and I, for one, appreciate the right to carry.

As they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I personally don't leave home without one.

The sad part is that it is just that easy to buy a throw away gun, I can call a few friends and one of them will call me back in one day with what I am asking for or something equal.

I have had my CWP for 10 plus years and I never never leave home without it with me! In the rare case I do walk out without it I have a compact ruger 9mm in my car that wll go in my pocket or in my holster.

Better to have it and never need it. Then to need it and not have it.....

[tigerstripes]

Better to have it and never need it. Then to need it and not have it.....

I agree.

If we could just fix the bigger problem of not actually needing it................

And please don't think that I'm trying to be argumentative. I'm really not. I'm just trying to find and eliminate the cause, so we don't have to deal with the effect.

[Bumper64]

I agree.

If we could just fix the bigger problem of not actually needing it................

And please don't think that I'm trying to be argumentative. I'm really not. I'm just trying to find and eliminate the cause, so we don't have to deal with the effect.

I understand, the answer is what this thread is all about. We need the answers

[snooz]

Great Spirit, oh lord, Sacred Ones

I call to you to be with those children

Our beloved children has left this world

And is returned to you with love.

I call to our ancestors who are walking in the light

And are willing to help at this time

Come, and be with our loved ones:

She/he is waiting for you and may not know to look for you.

I pray that you will come to her/him now

And hold her/him in your arms.

Please comfort this child in knowing

That this lifetime on earth is complete

And guide them to safety in your world.

I give thanks to our love ones for their life on earth

And that she/he chose to share her/his short lifetime with us.

Whilst I feel deep sadness at her/his parting,

I release any ties that may hold her/him in the earthly realm

And entrust those children to your care.

Thank you Jesus!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!

SnooZ

[Nelg]

By all the negatives I'm getting just prooves my point about the character of some of you and why some of you shouldn't have the ability to have a gun, if you were near me you would shoot me instead of debating me, very sad but reality.

Individuals that rely upon brute force to win their argument know little about sharing ideas and disagreeing. Just watch the unions as they use force to make their point. But all their antics of violence only underscores their immature and childish behavior.

Their may be some who would take the course of taking a gun or knife or baseball bat or sharp pencil or a box cutter, and take try to take your life. But it is because they are simple and deranged without reason, not because they HAVE a weapon, but because they are sick.

It is a broad generalization to think that someone with a gun is going to use it just to win a debate.

This guy was sick, a sociopath who was not going to be stopped in killing these children, teachers, and parent.

I understand your argument for harsher gun laws; with that I agree. But it would be totally illogical to remove guns from the population. When one does that, they open the door to abuse, dictatorial control, and powerlessness in preventing evil or personal protection or governmental control. Peace, my friend.

[JREDinars]

My daughter is 6 and I can't imagine. Coincidentally, I was on the way to the gun range to shoot my P22 and my new .38 revolver, when I heard he news on talk radio. I burst into tears and pictured what I would do if I could, in a situation like that.....and I blew the hell out of those targets.....spinal cord shots, heart shots and between the eyes...almost every time.

My husband is a detective and I've had a friend murdered. I know the police come after the crime has been committed...not typically while in progress. I know that if anyone threatened the life of my family or me...well....it's not going to be me. I will pump them so full of lead....until the threat has stopped. Exactly what the cops are trained to do. So if he's alive-he's a threat. If my husband doesn't get to him first....I will. And since he was 13 years SWAT he may get there first, but I'll be right behind him in case he takes one. Tag team him. If we get rid of all guns...the good law abiding citizens would give them up but who would be left with the guns? The thugs and killers and criminals. Sad, sad world we live in. If anything happened to my daughter, I could not go on. My heart and prayers go out to the families of all that were lost. They will be spending Christmas with Jesus this year. Bless their souls. God bless their families in this time of terrible senseless tragedy. I am tearing up again. I can write no more. Just keep praying.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Bumper64

[Bumper64]

Tonight I had a family member ask me "Why would God let this happen to these kids" I tried to think of a good answer and all I could come up with was:

"Why have we taken prayer out of the schools" ------ By doing this have we told God that we don't want him at our schools watching over our children?

I also said to her that we need to also ask, Why are we taking Gods name out of our Government buildings and off of our money? ------ By doing this are we telling God that we don't need him watching over our country and our peoples lives?

Could this be a way of showing us our mistakes that we DO need God back in our schools, homes and our Government that is suppose to be watching over us and helping this country?

I told her not to fear because these children and the innocent adults who lost their lives today are in Gods hands now!!

[JREDinars]

Oops. Double posted that. Dunno how. Sorry. And I meant to say that ' they will be spending Christmas with Jesus this year."

[Bumper64]

Oops. Double posted that. Dunno how. Sorry. And I meant to say that ' they will be spending Christmas with Jesus this year."

I took care of this for you!!

[hame55]

Tony...get real. There's a very big difference between negs and bullets. We disagree with your opinion... that's all. Forks don't make people fat.... pencils don't misspell words... and guns don't shoot innocent people. You will never take all the guns from us law abiding citizens (nor will you remove them all from the criminals). Put your energy where it might do some good..... buy a gun, get some training and a conceal carry license and encourage other good, moral, mentally stable people to do the same. An armed society is a civil society.

Right Snot.

Good thought. It's be like the Wild West. Get drunk in any bar, take out the old .357 and blast the next guy. The undertaker cleans up...

Carry a gun in the car - a guys cuts you off and you blast them. Takes care of it, no?

More guns for everyone! Then there will be less shooting! That really makes sense.

You know what I think? A lot of righties out there don't want psychological tests to own a gun to weed out the crazies...they're afraid they will not pass the test.

Snot...any questions?

[TonyDownTheShore]

Tonight I had a family member ask me "Why would God let this happen to these kids" I tried to think of a good answer and all I could come up with was:

"Why have we taken prayer out of the schools" ------ By doing this have we told God that we don't want him at our schools watching over our children?

I also said to her that we need to also ask, Why are we taking Gods name out of our Government buildings and off of our money? ------ By doing this are we telling God that we don't need him watching over our country and our peoples lives?

Could this be a way of showing us our mistakes that we DO need God back in our schools, homes and our Government that is suppose to be watching over us and helping this country?

I told her not to fear because these children and the innocent adults who lost their lives today are in Gods hands now!!

This is exactly the reason for all that's happened lately, God is showing he needs to be in our lives every minute and every day, a friend of mine told me about this book that explains what's going on in the world today, the name of the book is THE HARBINGER by Jonathan Cahn if anybody is interested it's a great book and I feel it opened my eyes to why we're going through these dark times.

[hame55]

No that's not the truth Tony. You have the right to your opinion like everybody else. My God what can you say when something as dark as this happens. I truly believe in our right to bear arms and the right to defend ourselves. But when something like this happens I ask what can we do? How can we make it safer for the children. Its a new age we are living in. So it may take new ideas in order to protect our young. All the military coming home from overseas are going to need a job. Maybe we should have a 3 man squad in every school armed with AR`s to protect them. Stripping the rights from honest Stable citizens is no answer. We also need to take a real hard look at ourselves. I hear people saying " How can God let this happen " My fellow Americans Think about it. God isn't allowed in our schools anymore so how can he protect them. He`s not allowed in our courts or any public place. We are a godless nation which has allowed its children to grow up thinking every thing you do is ok. Disrespect is ok, Bulling is OK, same sex is Ok, atheism is OK ,lying is Ok the list just go`s on and on. You are not even allowed to whip your children any more its not tolerated. Sorry for my rant . I just keep thinking about those poor children their lives just taken away for no good reason. The shooters dead and we will never know why. There is no condolences or comfort in this world that can take away the pain those parents must be feeling right know. All I can do is shake my head and wonder how this evil came into our world.

Because prayer isn't allowed in school. That's the reason these children were murdered.

I see.

That's the kind of thinking that allows conservatives to believe the Iraq war was about freedom, not oil.

The reasoning is this - I want to believe what I want to believe, regardless of any facts. After all, it's faith and faith can explain anything. It's all God's will.

Your faith also explains away the real reasons for the war. It's convenient to say it was for freedom, not for oil. Because Islam is evil. They are trying to get us. That's what FOX told you. But it doesn't have anything to do with facts. No WMD's found. Saddam not involved in 911 (Bush quoted).

Denial is very strong.

Only people who are afraid carry around guns with them. The land of the free and the home of the brave?

We are neither free, nor are we brave.

Edited December 15, 2012 by hame55

[UNEEK]

i can make a gun in 20 minutes

and it wouldnt be the first time

Are you taking orders?? How much$$$ Yes I am serious - Were you serious? any pics? Date & Rate Please

[Bumper64]

Saw where someone posted this on FB after Columbine shooting and it applies to this also!!

[willy1der]

Only people who are afraid carry around guns with them. The land of the free and the home of the brave?

We are neither free, nor are we brave.

This is about as ignorant of a statement as I've seen. Your blanket statement is made because you don't have anything worth while to say. So when I apply your logic, our military and police and anyone that carries a gun around are afraid.

We have a constitution that gives us the right to keep and bear arms.

Then you want to bash people over faith as well. God has a will and so do we. Don't judge God's character based upon what a man says/doesn't say/ does or doesn't do. Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Notice God's word says the WHOLE creation, my goodness, God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are above ours, neither you or I totally understand why we went into Iraq, why God allowed these children to die, here and the children in China stabbed with a knife at school. But one thing I do know, God will get glory somehow.

[DinarMillionaire]

Right Snot.

Good thought. It's be like the Wild West. Get drunk in any bar, take out the old .357 and blast the next guy. The undertaker cleans up...

Carry a gun in the car - a guys cuts you off and you blast them. Takes care of it, no?

More guns for everyone! Then there will be less shooting! That really makes sense.

You know what I think? A lot of righties out there don't want psychological tests to own a gun to weed out the crazies...they're afraid they will not pass the test.

Snot...any questions?

You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual, just running of at the mouth, again.

In right-to-carry states, the violent crime rate is 24% lower than the rest of the U.S., the murder rate is 28% lower, and the robbery rate is 50% lower.

Just think, 80,000,000 gun owners in America behaved peacefully today...