Children shot and killed at Connecticut school: report Reuters – 7 mins ago

[one2one]

no gun laws will prevent crazy people from doing stupid things like this

[dontlop]

things arent the problem ..gasoline .. common house hold chemicals ,, can be used to kill masses .. bow and arrows ,, knives .. axes .. chain saws .. cars .. all very deadly .. if a person chooses to use them if nothing else is available

they will just use what ever is avaliable .. like their pick up truck .. turning this into gun control is not the way to go.. the weapons were registered to his mother from what i heard today on the news ..so registering weapons did not save any one ..a gun can be made very simply .. it doesnt have to be bought .. pipe is all you need

[one2one]

This is the way we learn.

Someday the gun laws will be stronger and we will be safer.

Not true that people will kill with anything...guns are the easiest way to kill and should be used only with real psycho/background checks. Sure it costs money, - the NRA will moan and cry, but in the end, it's what we must do.

I personally am tired of hearing all the 2nd Amendment people crying out for their rights...until it happens to them...

We won't lose all our guns. We just need to thorougly check those who buy them.

how are you going to " check out " people who buy guns illegally off the street ?

gun laws are only obeyed by law abiding people

[dontlop]

i can make a gun in 20 minutes

and it wouldnt be the first time

Edited December 14, 2012 by dontlop

[TonyDownTheShore]

how are you going to " check out " people who buy guns illegally off the street ?

gun laws are only obeyed by law abiding people

That's exactly the problem, anybody that wants a gun can get one, legally or illegally, the laws in place today allows that.

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

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Our hearts are breaking... just breaking to pieces.

[one2one]

That's exactly the problem, anybody that wants a gun can get one, legally or illegally, the laws in place today allows that.

then, pass a law that says people are not allowed to buy guns illegally :

what happens then ???

[Snotrocket]

By all the negatives I'm getting just prooves my point about the character of some of you and why some of you shouldn't have the ability to have a gun, if you were near me you would shoot me instead of debating me, very sad but reality.

Tony...get real. There's a very big difference between negs and bullets. We disagree with your opinion... that's all. Forks don't make people fat.... pencils don't misspell words... and guns don't shoot innocent people. You will never take all the guns from us law abiding citizens (nor will you remove them all from the criminals). Put your energy where it might do some good..... buy a gun, get some training and a conceal carry license and encourage other good, moral, mentally stable people to do the same. An armed society is a civil society.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Snotrocket

[desimo]

America had it's heart broken today. If a kindergarden classroom is not safe from a nut case then no where is safe. This, if there was any doubt in my mind prior, was the final mark solidifying my resolve to always carry. If these babies were not safe then no one is safe from the nutjobs.

[dog53]

By all the negatives I'm getting just prooves my point about the character of some of you and why some of you shouldn't have the ability to have a gun, if you were near me you would shoot me instead of debating me, very sad but reality.

No that's not the truth Tony. You have the right to your opinion like everybody else. My God what can you say when something as dark as this happens. I truly believe in our right to bear arms and the right to defend ourselves. But when something like this happens I ask what can we do? How can we make it safer for the children. Its a new age we are living in. So it may take new ideas in order to protect our young. All the military coming home from overseas are going to need a job. Maybe we should have a 3 man squad in every school armed with AR`s to protect them. Stripping the rights from honest Stable citizens is no answer. We also need to take a real hard look at ourselves. I hear people saying " How can God let this happen " My fellow Americans Think about it. God isn't allowed in our schools anymore so how can he protect them. He`s not allowed in our courts or any public place. We are a godless nation which has allowed its children to grow up thinking every thing you do is ok. Disrespect is ok, Bulling is OK, same sex is Ok, atheism is OK ,lying is Ok the list just go`s on and on. You are not even allowed to whip your children any more its not tolerated. Sorry for my rant . I just keep thinking about those poor children their lives just taken away for no good reason. The shooters dead and we will never know why. There is no condolences or comfort in this world that can take away the pain those parents must be feeling right know. All I can do is shake my head and wonder how this evil came into our world.

[TonyDownTheShore]

Tony...get real. There's a very big difference between negs and bullets. We disagree with your opinion... that's all. Forks don't make people fat.... pencils don't misspell words... and guns don't shoot innocent people. You will never take all the guns from us law abiding citizens (nor will you remove them all from the criminals). Put your energy where it might do some good..... buy a gun, get some training and a conceal carry license and encourage other good, moral, mentally stable people to do the same. An armed society is a civil society.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm saying they should make the laws the same across the country, here in New Jersey they make it very hard to get a gun, but people drive down south and go in Wal-Mart and come out with as many guns as they want, I'm not saying nobody should have a gun, just make it hard with background check and a waiting period before you can get one and that should be across the whole country not just a couple of states.

[dontlop]

we may end up knowing the motive here .. at first they announced the killers name and put up his picture . later they said that wasnt the killer .. it was his brother .. the brother whos picture was put on tv is in police custody .... the killer is dead

[DiveDeepSix]

I can't even imagine the pain those parents must be feeling right now, my heart and prayers go out to them. What kind of a person goes into a school and shoots kids? What a complete POS, if he wanted to make a statement why didn't he target someone with the ability to shoot back? Most cowardice thing I've ever heard of, hell holds a special place for losers like him.

All I could think about today was my 8 year old son being in that position at his school. What can we do? A while back our schools here used to be locked down during school hours with security at the doors, you weren't allowed in the halls during class, the doors were locked, and no one came in or out without going thru the office. Kept the kids in class and not out in the parking lot doing drugs and God knows what else. Great program. So what do they do now? They end this program and buy ipads for the 9 thru 12th graders all the parents are against, then have the guts to say they don't have the money for security. Now the kids wander the halls and parking lot DURING class and they do nothing about it. You can walk in and out of our school system with whatever you want unchallenged, pathetic. I've caught kids out in the school parking lot smoking pot, called the school, "not our problem, called the cops, again "not our problem". Nice, no one wants to take responsibility and no one wants to get involved. Seems all they care about is getting their checks at the end of the day and who cares about the job they are doing or the kids.

I'm all for the old program of locked down and would gladly donate to the cause to prevent something like this from ever happening again.

On a side note, with all the shootings lately, mall, theater, now the school, etc. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but sometimes I think our own govt. is behind a lot of this crap to push their gun control agenda, they wanted outrage? Well they got it! :angry:/>/>

Oh and for the anti gun crowd, according to the FBI the number 1 weapon used in murders is a baseball bat. No one is calling for banning baseball bats, why? Because responsible people own them as well and use them for recreational purposes. <_</>

Edited December 14, 2012 by DiveDeepSix

[desimo]

People who want to do illegal things such as shoot innocent people do not care about the law. It seems like so many of the places that these nutjobs shoot up are supposed to be 'gun free zones'. Gun laws will NOT stop illegal activities because they will always get guns. Drugs are illegal and people have no problems getting those. Let legal people carry.

[paperboy]

Tony - I'm not sure what states you are referring to "down south". I live in Texas and you can't just walk into any Walmart & come out with a gun 5 minutes later. We DO have background checks down here. Of course, the criminals (as stated above) can stand on any street corner in any state and get a gun whenever they choose. So tightening the gun laws on law-abiding citizens is defintely NOT the answer. You have your head in the sand. Wake up - we all need to be armed, then the crazies might think twice before trying something like this.

And yep, I gave you a negative - you earned it. And no, I'm not gunning for you. Just happen to strongly disagree with you. But our Constitution gives you the right to voice your opinion, and gives me the right to arm myself - both of these freedoms need to remain in tact. I'm like Bumper, I'm armed the minute I step outside my door. Well, actually, I'm armed inside my home also. We need more stable, mature, armed citizens to help protect the innocent. The criminals are already armed - and the police are having just about as much success controlling that as they are drugs. Laws are for the law-abiding, not the bad guys. You people need to wake-up!

[dontlop]

yes sir i agree the guns can be banned in the united states and the gun smugglers would bring in weapons all day long for the criminals .. and ya know we cant have our borders shut down ..that would be racist ..

but those criminals would havce access to weapons and the honest citizens would not be allowed to defend themselves .. ya cant teach some people about reality .. they think murders have never happened before the gun was invented .

[bowling4dinars]

How sad.. As a parent of 3. I can't even begin to comprehend the grief. My thoughts and prayers are with the families

[tigerstripes]

Knife-wielding man injures 22 children in China

Reuters – 13 hrs ago

BEIJING (Reuters) - A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary schoolin central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on schoolchildren in the country.

The man attacked the children at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province, theXinhua news agency reported.

Police arrested a 36-year-old man, identified as villager Min Yingjun, Xinhua said. It did not give further details of the extent of the injuries.

There have been a series of attacks on schools and schoolchildren around China in recent years, some by people who have lost their jobs or felt left out of the country's economic boom.

The rash of violence has prompted public calls for more measures to protect the young in a country where many couples only have one child.

In 2010, a man slashed 28 children, two teachers and a security guard in a kindergarten in eastern China.

WHAT IS HAPPENING, PEOPLE ARE GOING CRAZY!

Like I said, take away guns and they will find other ways of hurting and killing people!! SEE ABOVE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My only argument to what you are saying here is that in that report it doesn't actually state how many children were actually killed.

The problem with the argument comparing gun deaths to "knives, cars, alcohol etc" is the efficiency that guns have when used for their primary purpose. Killing. When guns are used for their primary purpose they are very, very, effective and efficient.

People argue that more people die on the country's roads in car accidents. That is true - however, there are controls on automobile use. Speed limits, blood alcohol levels etc.

Also, automobiles, when used for their primary purpose are quite effective as well. They are good at moving people from point A to point B. Unfortunately, some people ignore the laws and speed, or drive whilst drunk, and this can cause accidents and deaths. However, if you were to do a study on how many people use automobiles on a daily basis, and survive, compared to how many are killed in automobile accidents, the number would be very, very low.

Think of a situation where there are 100 people on a closed loop circuit using an automobile for its intended purpose. Things would be okay except for the small percentage of people who would be drunk behind the wheel, or speeding. How many deaths would result?

Now think of the same situation and replace the automobiles with guns being used for their intended purpose. How many deaths would result?

I honestly do not know how to overcome the issues with regard to gun related death.

I shudder to think of setting schools up like prisons, with fences and lockdowns and metal detectors. When you're a kid, it's supposed to be a time of freedom and excitement and adventure and exploration. To be bringing kids up in an environment where they are scared to go outside, or see fences and barricades is to instill fear in the children.

Maybe there are already too many guns on the streets to effectively remove them from the hands of the bad guys. Maybe the fear is already so entrenched in society that it will never be overcome. Maybe it is now such a way of life that it can't be reversed.

I appreciate the fact that most everybody here would own a gun or multiple guns. I would assume that there are a wide variety of reasons for ownership. How many have a gun purely for protection? How many for hunting? How many because it's just fun to go down the range and shoot at a target. And let's face it, it can be a thrill to shoot a gun.

Now, I would suggest that the people who own a gun for protection do so because they are fearful of being attacked. The question to me is how to remove that fear?

Of the people who just like to go down the range and shoot at a target - do you need to actually "own" the gun? Would these people be happy with just going down to the range, grabbing a gun from a locker, shooting the target and then putting the gun back in the locker?

Similarly with those who have guns for hunting. Do you carry your gun with you when you are out doing the grocery shopping?

As I said, I don't know what the answer is.

Personally I think that the efficiency of the weapon is the issue. How to overcome this - I don't know. Maybe some sort of limit on what guns are available, or the number of guns?

I think that tragedies like this show that something needs to be tried at least.

[DiveDeepSix]

Um...Where did you get the baseball information? According to the FBI website it is handguns... http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain

I would LOVE to be wrong though.

I was off by one, actually hands and feet were the number one thing used to commit violent crime.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aacrime2001.htm

The National Crime Index increased 2.1 percent in 2001 from 2000, representing the first year-to-year increase since 1991, reports the FBI. However, when looking at 5- and 10-year trends, crime was down 10.2 percent when compared to 1997 data and down 17.9 percent when compared to 1992 statistics.

Data reporting U.S. crime rates are collected and compiled annually by the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program and reported in the annual publication Crime in the United States, 2001.

Serving as a measure of the level and scope of the American crime experience, the FBI's index reports four violent crimes (murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) and three property crimes (burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft).

The estimated total number of Crime Index offenses for 2001 was 11,849,006. This number reflects an increase of 2.1 percent from the 2000 estimate of 11,608,070.

Final data released by the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program in the annual publication Crime in the United States, 2001 indicate that:

The estimated 11.8 million Crime Index offenses (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft) in the Nation in 2001 represented a 2.1-percent increase over the 2000 estimate, the first year-to-year increase since 1991.

Estimated violent crime in 2001 rose 0.8 percent over 2000 estimates. Estimated aggravated assault volumes decreased 0.5-percent from 2000 data. Robberies increased 3.7 percent, murders rose 2.5 percent, and forcible rapes increased 0.3 percent in volume.

An estimated 15,980 murders occurred in the United States in 2001, a 2.5-percent increase over the 2000 estimate. However, a 5-year trend reflected a 12.2-percent decline from the 1997 estimate.

Approximately 42.3 percent of murder victims knew their assailants. Nearly a third of all female victims were slain by a husband or boyfriend.

Estimated property crimes were up 2.3 percent over 2000 estimates. Motor vehicle thefts increased 5.7 percent, burglaries rose 2.9 percent, and larceny-thefts increased 1.5 percent.

Hate crime data were provided by 11,987 law enforcement agencies. The 9,726 hate crime incidents reported in 2001 involved 11,447 separate offenses, 12,016 victims, and 9,231 known offenders.

Law enforcement made an estimated 13.7 million arrests for criminal offenses (excluding traffic violations) in 2001.

American's Weapons of Choice?

What weapons do Americans prefer when using them to commit violent crimes? According to the Unified Crime Index, "personal weapons" -- hands, fists and feet -- were used in 31.1 percent of violent crimes. Other dangerous weapons, like golf clubs, hammers and baseball bats were used in 27.8 percent of violent crimes. Firearms were involved in 26.2 percent of violent crimes, and knives and other cutting instruments in 14.9 percent.

Where the Data Comes From

In 2001, the nearly 17,000 city, county, and state law enforcement agencies that provided data to the Crime Reporting System represented 92 percent of the total U.S. population. Crime data is reported by cities with over 10,000 inhabitants, suburban and rural counties, and colleges and universities.

What About the September 11 Attacks?

Realizing that the events of September 11, 2001 would have unacceptably skewed the statistical data, the crimes committed in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks are not included in the Uniform Crime Report. Information regarding the September attacks are provided in a special report titled The Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001: A Compilation of Data.

Edited December 15, 2012 by DiveDeepSix

[desimo]

I do not mean to be unfeeling, just as a first responder who answered unattended deaths and fatalities I have learned that people die. It does not matter if it is a gun, knife, auto, or illness; people die. When it is unexpected like a suicide or auto accident it is harder to accept. When it is a child or young person it is even harder to accept. But that is not because of the way they died but because our society says that children should be allowed to grow up and grow old. Losing people who are dear to you does not mean more or less if they died in violence, dropped dead suddenly from natural causes or had a lingering illness. Death is death. It is easier for some people to be able to blame something as the thing that took our loved one. We cannot control other's actions so we want to blame a thing because things are able to be controlled. We have to accepted our powerlessness over life and events. Does it hurt, of course. Does you ever get over it, never. Do you learn to move on, you must or you die also.

[DiveDeepSix]

Here is another really good link, showing how gun ownership has skyrocketed lately, and guess what else it shows? If you said violent crimes are dropping big time because of it, give yourself a cigar!!

http://pjmedia.com/blog/fbi-crime-stats-show-an-armed-public-is-a-safer-public/

What's sad about today is, one armed security guard or concealed carrier could have possibly taken this nutjob out and prevented this tragedy. Kinda of odd how people like this don't run into the local police station or sportsmans club to start shooting when they know the would be victims would be shooting back. No, they go to an elementary school or shopping mall where odds are they won't get shot themselves, Cowardice is the only word I can use with out getting banned from here, but I'm sure y'all know where I'm coming from.

[umbertino]

Very sorry to hear this... My thoughts go to all the Families which happened to have someone involved in the shooting.....

[DiveDeepSix]

I do not mean to be unfeeling, just as a first responder who answered unattended deaths and fatalities I have learned that people die. It does not matter if it is a gun, knife, auto, or illness; people die. When it is unexpected like a suicide or auto accident it is harder to accept. When it is a child or young person it is even harder to accept. But that is not because of the way they died but because our society says that children should be allowed to grow up and grow old. Losing people who are dear to you does not mean more or less if they died in violence, dropped dead suddenly from natural causes or had a lingering illness. Death is death. It is easier for some people to be able to blame something as the thing that took our loved one. We cannot control other's actions so we want to blame a thing because things are able to be controlled. We have to accepted our powerlessness over life and events. Does it hurt, of course. Does you ever get over it, never. Do you learn to move on, you must or you die also.

Coming from a fellow firefighter/first responder, rescue/recovery diver, I completely understand where you are coming from. I've cleaned up way to many messes left by stupidity that could have been prevented if people would just think about the consequences of their actions, it has nothing to do with what was used to cause death, it's a matter of personal responsibility, something our society is completely lacking anymore. Always someone else's fault.

[Rayzur]

My heart goes out to the families of these children and I can't imagine if it were my kids who suffered this. Prayers and Blessings to the parents and siblings of these children and all those touched by this tragic loss of life.

A gun is an inorganic object, it is nothing more than a tool.... the person is the weapon.

I've actually seen a person who was killed with the hollow shell of a Bic pen... literally. And the points raised about efficiency are certainly compelling, however I believe in actual numbers, you'd find just about the same ratio between guns owned and deaths resulting, as you would with cars... with cars bearnig a higher ratio than guns as I recall. Further, when a car is used (the Volvo incident in SoCal), as a weapon for the purpose of killing, the efficiency was remarkable in its death toll. People are forever quoting the FBI statistics about guns and their danger and always forget to quote the findings in that same paper, that more crime is stopped by private citizens owning guns than law enforcement responding... Private citizens owning guns stop more crime in the US, than law enforcement officers. I forget the precentage, but again, it was significantly higher.

Right now, there seems to be a reported higher incident of gun related deaths, however, its also true that this is more likely to make national press, than is car related deaths, or boating accidents, or train wrecks.. or... Its also a reflection of increasing suicide by cop incidents playing out.... in the past it was infrequent, and at present it seems to only be growing. For whatever reason, more and more of those wishing to die find it far more exciting (if not easier) to do so at the hands of another. Press coverage does not help diminish or decrease this desire or method of suicide. And as a starter, I know it would make a difference if the press refused to cover these kinds of incidents (and I also know that will never happen).

Clearly something needs to be done. However, taking a reactionary stance against a tool, and not the actual weapon, will most assuredly result in the law of unintended consequences, absent a change in the source of the problem or resulting expression (rampage). We are on the verge of an economic meltdown. For the first time in the awareness of most alive today, we approach the event of another "great depression" like that suffered by our great grandparents. Many have lost everything, including their job, home and in some cases family. And unlike past times, the likelihood of re-employment, restoration of financial well-being, recovery of their home, or family,...somehow making it back anywhere near where they were 10 years ago.... is almost an impossibility for most. The lack of basic resources, coupled with profound loss, and little hope for surviving let alone recovering from such devastation is for some a threshold resulting in complete breakdown. As people we are all the same in what we basically need, and are very different in how we respond to or handle the deprivation of that.

For some, suicide is the solution they view as best. And of those, there are some who don't have the whatever to do so.... while others are angry to the point of rage at having arrived at this conclusion with no alternative (therein pursuing it as a solution).... There are people who arrive at a point wherein the capability of a rational thought is completely outside their grasp. These are not gang bangers or psychopaths, or bad seed people... and are individuals who arrive at someplace within their mind that most of us will never experience.... Prison in whatever form will not deter these people... There is no capability for connection to rational thought.... In this place they use a gun to effect whatever is going on in their head. Absent the availabilty of a gun, there is poison in the water source or cafeteria food, there is explosive capacity with common ingredients. or pipe bombs with broad range kill capacity or the family truck plowing through a school bus stop, or event gathering.

We are in very freaky, stressful, isolating, disenfranchising, disempowering, uncertain, times.... People are going to react differently to these stressors. Figuring out different ways to mitigate the impact of these stressors, or targeting those most unable to cope, will center on the source and therein be far more effective than simply reacting to the symptom.

And for what its worth, I was hanging out with a group of senior military officers graduating from various graduate programs today. There were officers from all branches (except Coast Guard) and this news event came up in discussion. Interesting solution in response was the suggestion that if teachers had had a weapon/gun, they could have resolved the issue immediately.... I guess its all a matter of perspective.... and I would tend to go that direction myself personally, versus the other route of simply arming the "bad" guys...

[DiveDeepSix]

Anyway enough of the gun control debate from me. The point is many innocent souls left us today all we can hope for is they are in a better place with God. My sincerest condolences to those families suffering from a loss I couldn't even imagine, you are in our prayers. The survivors will be traumatized for life and I pray for them as well. Now I'm off to do what is the most important thing to me, spend time with my family and thank God we are all together. Night gang and God Bless!