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IQD Revalue Summary


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#1 SinjinWolf

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:30 PM

Not sure who Keylime is, or Dinar Detectives for that matter, but I'm pulling this

post over from today because, from the articles I've read these past few months,


I think this offers a pretty good summary of what happened to the IQD and the


process to revalue. It's sort of like a cliff notes version of the whole thing.


But I'm always interested in hearing other people's thoughts & perspectives


because I think everyone's point of view creates a more accurate picture


of what's happening.

====

{Post starts here:}


"#1 - The Iraqi dinar was ARTIFICIALLY devalued when Sadam attacked Kuwait,


therefore it went from $3.22 (and no that wasnt just Sadam’s rate) back in the


1980′s to less than it even is now… which means it can be REVALUED over 100%


at anytime to give it back its former “glory” so to speak.





#2: they have stated that the current zero notes will be good for another 10


years of exchange (so demonetizing the “old” currency is not going to happen


like it would in a normal LOP scenerio where they give you 45 days to turn it in


or your screwed, which also means this scenerio is not normal on any level).





#3:They have to change the current currency to the new “3 language” notes


whether they revalue or not because they share their gov’t with Kuwait and


the 2003 notes did not take them into account. Thus the reason for


changing the notes a LOP is not the reason for them changing the current


currency. “Dedollarization” will occur naturally when they raise the value of


their money to equal or above the US dollar. In this case “zeroes” are important


because when the new 3 language currency is released they have been printed


with the revaluation they plan on (which they have stated the 2013 budget is


written with the new value) otherwise why even talk about Lower Denominations


if you are not going to raise the actual value of the currency just print new 3


language notes with 3 zeroes on them and be done with it.





#4: As you can see this whole affair has no precedent and therefore cannot


be looked at by past scenerios. Wipe the black board clean because this is a


whole new equation. Never happened before that a country with this kind of


wealth has had their currency artificially devalued over 1000% then the super


powers (not countries but the “real” people in charge..THE BANKERS)


put together a plan to bring that country back to prominence with debt


forgiveness, wealth protection, instituting a government(democracy) that


they never had or would have if left to their own devices (think religious


leaders in charge..MULLAHS), and a world wide need for their riches

(oil, gold, diamonds, platinum, natural gas, etc. and just as important,


Geographic location) Location, location, location. Iraq has it all, and


the world is all in on this one. None of this spells the dreaded LOP.





The only real fact here is, in the history of the world there has never


been a country like Iraq, at the time it exists now, with the potential


and backing it enjoys(politically, financially, etc.).


Therefore this event we all here have invested in is UNPRECEDENTED!


But don’t take my word for it, time will be the ultimate revelator."

{End post}

=====

The point that sticks out to me that's easy to forget is that pre-Sadam,

the IQD value was stronger than the USD going all the way back to the

1950s - maybe even back to the 1930s, if my memory serves me correctly.




Have a great weekend everybody! :):)
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#2 doctor robbins

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

That was actually taken from another threat on this forum. http://dinarvets.com...1

They conveniently left out my responses, which is typical of their site.


#1 It wasn't devalued. It depreciated. If you don't know the difference you should look up the terms. "Artificially" suggests that the current value isn't an accurate representation of the true value. With 30 trillion in circulation and 70 trillion in their M2 that's hard to imagine.

#2 Turkey had a ten year redemption period as well when they lopped. http://www.tcmb.gov....mgm/NTL_faq.htm (see #11) Shabibi said that there was a lot to learn from Turkey and it seems he's following their example.

#3 Actually they don't have to. If they had to they would have likely done it in 2004 when the IQD was introduced. If they just wanted to change their design there's nothing to stop them. We change the US dollar design every few years. But they can't change over to a new currency series with a new name, new ISO code ... etc. without approval from parliament and that's where they're getting resistance. I would agree that revaluing to $1 or more would bring about de-dollarization, but revaluing to $1 or more with their current money supply is an economic impossibility.

#4 No revaluation in history has required new currency and no revaluation in history has been done by removing zeros. However dozens of re-denominations have been accompanied by both. The new value is the value of the new dinar, not the current dinar which is being replaced in the re-denomination. In every re-denomination the result is a currency with a higher value but that doesn't mean that anybody gained any purshasing power. This is where the pumpers are confusing people. They're making them think that the new value will be applied to the dinar that they hold. It won't.

#5 If your scenario is true then I would agree that this will be an unprecedented event. However your claim that Iraq is wealthy is baseless. Iraq has a lot of oil but not much of anything else. Their GDP is 90% oil revenues. Their GDP per capita is comparitively low. This will hopefully change over the decades but we can all see how slowly change occurs with Iraq. I already addressed your "artifically devalued" claim. I won't explore conspiracy theories except to say that debt forgiveness is hardly evidence of an impending unprecedented revaluation. Nigeria, Liberia, and Congo all experienced debt forgiveness as well from The Paris Club. Is anybody buying up their currencies?
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#3 Dinar Buddy

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:56 PM

So we wait and hope... plan on 24-36 months. Many have already waited 9-10 years. The GOI is still doing their business and doing just fine without a current change.

Be careful NEWBIE's... don't over spend.

Let's go RV
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#4 Stephen Dedeaux

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:58 PM

Now that was a very good article that made sence..................! Finally Go RV....................! B) B) B)
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#5 George Hayduke

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:30 PM

Their GDP per capita is comparitively low. This will hopefully change over the decades but we can all see how slowly change occurs with Iraq.


The IMF disagrees with you. The IMF estimates Iraq’s GDP for 2013 to be 13.5% - more than three times the world average of 4.1% and more than five and a half times of the US GDP of 2.4% for the same time period. Data Mapper

I've explained how to use the IMF Data Mapper in a previous post so I won't bother to do it again other than to recommend going to the IMF site and following their instructions.

GH
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#6 doctor robbins

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:54 PM

The IMF disagrees with you. The IMF estimates Iraq’s GDP for 2013 to be 13.5% - more than three times the world average of 4.1% and more than five and a half times of the US GDP of 2.4% for the same time period. Data Mapper

I've explained how to use the IMF Data Mapper in a previous post so I won't bother to do it again other than to recommend going to the IMF site and following their instructions.

GH


You're citing the GDP growth rate. I was referring to GDP per capita which the IMF lists as 128th in the world. As I said, comparatively low. http://en.wikipedia....PPP)_per_capita
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#7 jg1

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:02 PM

So, doctor robbins. Was it the UN that ordered the printing of the 70 trillion in their M2 and this depreciated the value of the dinar. Usually when more currency is printed, doesn't that mean money was barrowed which depreciates the value of the currency. So to undo this, they would have to pay back the money, re-issue new currency and this would appreciate value back to which it was.
Like you say, the value I dont think has to change? That would be nice if I could make some money off this venture, but mostly I see lies from people that just want to make money from the sale of and services offered for dinar.

Just questions, please dont abuse me too much.
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#8 jeepguy

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:38 PM

"#1 - The Iraqi dinar was ARTIFICIALLY devalued when Sadam attacked Kuwait,


therefore it went from $3.22 (and no that wasnt just Sadam’s rate) back in the


1980′s to less than it even is now… which means it can be REVALUED over 100%


at anytime to give it back its former “glory” so to speak.

i was under the idea that when the u.s. pulled --- shock and aaawwww { heck i not sure but this is wrong spelling } and took out sadam,, they then pull the dinar rate back too wayyyy lower like 3,ooo too 1 u .s. dollar and,, when the increase too what it is now --- started the barn burner idea !!!! that maybe it will go too 3.22 again --but after all the postings and grounded info --- we are lucky too see 1.50 and haul butt after that ;) .... number 2 is possible this is infact a specualtion investment ---- and a lop isn`t outta the question,,, but i do like .10 too 1.00 rate just for shirts and grins :lol: sorry !! ----------- #3:They have to change the current currency to the new “3 language” notes


whether they revalue or not because they share their gov’t with Kuwait and


the 2003 notes did not take them into account. Thus the reason for


changing the notes a LOP is not the reason for them changing the current


currency. “Dedollarization” will occur naturally when they raise the value of


their money to equal or above the US dollar. In this case “zeroes” are important


because when the new 3 language currency is released they have been printed


with the revaluation they plan on (which they have stated the 2013 budget is


written with the new value) otherwise why even talk about Lower Denominations


if you are not going to raise the actual value of the currency just print new 3


language notes with 3 zeroes on them and be done with it. this part is total hog wash ---- they did not share any goverment with kawait ,, they invaded kawait and u.s. kick BUTT sent them packing ---- surly these guys remember desert storm ....... and the notes we now hold -- are the 3 language notes ,,,,,, kurdish and arabic and english if i remember right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and the rest will be for history -this is for certain ,,,, all the wealth and all the corrurption ,,, we can only hope that this ends in the next few months ,,,,, and we see 1 too 1 exchange and we can cash in at our own banks .... good luck too us all ;)

Edited by jeepguy, 24 August 2012 - 05:41 PM.

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#9 doctor robbins

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:49 PM

So, doctor robbins. Was it the UN that ordered the printing of the 70 trillion in their M2 and this depreciated the value of the dinar. Usually when more currency is printed, doesn't that mean money was barrowed which depreciates the value of the currency. So to undo this, they would have to pay back the money, re-issue new currency and this would appreciate value back to which it was.
Like you say, the value I dont think has to change? That would be nice if I could make some money off this venture, but mostly I see lies from people that just want to make money from the sale of and services offered for dinar.

Just questions, please dont abuse me too much.


I never abuse people. I get abused from time to time but I always try to focus on facts. The M2 has been steadily growing as their economy grows. The M2 is not all cash. It contains printed and electronic currency. The increase in their money supply doesn't depreciate the currency because they only increase it in proportion to the growth in their foreign currency reserves that they use to back it. Because their money supply is growing it's clear to me that they have no intention of reducing the money supply or increasing the value apart from a re-denomination.
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#10 Sanssouci

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:00 PM

I never abuse people. I get abused from time to time but I always try to focus on facts. The M2 has been steadily growing as their economy grows. The M2 is not all cash. It contains printed and electronic currency. The increase in their money supply doesn't depreciate the currency because they only increase it in proportion to the growth in their foreign currency reserves that they use to back it. Because their money supply is growing it's clear to me that they have no intention of reducing the money supply or increasing the value apart from a re-denomination.


Tell your friend, Dax, that I went to see his new movie last night. It was okay. There were 5 people total in the whole theater.

Edited by Sanssouci, 24 August 2012 - 07:00 PM.

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#11 George Hayduke

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:17 PM

You're citing the GDP growth rate. I was referring to GDP per capita which the IMF lists as 128th in the world. As I said, comparatively low. http://en.wikipedia....PPP)_per_capita

“Gross Domestic Product is the most commonly used single measure of a country’s overall economic activity. It represents the total value at constant prices of final goods and services produced within a country during a specified time period, such as one year.” Source: IMF/World Economic Outlook 2012.

Granted you are referring to GDP per capita, however your own source, Wikipedia states, “GDP per capita is often considered an indicator of a country's standard of living; although this can be problematic because GDP per capita is not a measure of personal income.”

What many of us watch is Iraq’s wealth and stability then personal Iraqi wealth per capita. Obviously as a nation prospers so does its citizens and the GDP per capita would reflect that wealth. The speed with which the GDP per capita reflects the GDP is influenced by many factors but to imply that this change is going to take more than a few decades because, “we can all see how slowly change occurs with Iraq”, flies in the face of current Iraq GDP accelerated growth from .08% in 2010 to an estimated 13.5% next year. Contrast that growth with the US GDP of 3% falling to 2.4% for the same time period.

The GOI and the Dinar still look like the horse to bet on.

GH
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#12 Carrello

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:01 PM

Nice to see you, George.....
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#13 doctor robbins

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:24 PM

“Gross Domestic Product is the most commonly used single measure of a country’s overall economic activity. It represents the total value at constant prices of final goods and services produced within a country during a specified time period, such as one year.” Source: IMF/World Economic Outlook 2012.

Granted you are referring to GDP per capita, however your own source, Wikipedia states, “GDP per capita is often considered an indicator of a country's standard of living; although this can be problematic because GDP per capita is not a measure of personal income.”

What many of us watch is Iraq’s wealth and stability then personal Iraqi wealth per capita. Obviously as a nation prospers so does its citizens and the GDP per capita would reflect that wealth. The speed with which the GDP per capita reflects the GDP is influenced by many factors but to imply that this change is going to take more than a few decades because, “we can all see how slowly change occurs with Iraq”, flies in the face of current Iraq GDP accelerated growth from .08% in 2010 to an estimated 13.5% next year. Contrast that growth with the US GDP of 3% falling to 2.4% for the same time period.

The GOI and the Dinar still look like the horse to bet on.

GH


I don't dispute that Iraq's economy is growing and conditions are slowly improving, but if you followed the discussion you know that I was responding to the claim "Never happened before that a country with this kind of wealth has had their currency artificially devalued over 1000%". Iraq has no wealth. They're a poor country. That was my point. They have a lot of oil but most of the people don't really benefit from that. If they want to become a wealthy nation they have to build up other sectors of their economy. They need a manufacturing base, a service base, and an agricultural base. Those things will take decades to develop. Maybe in 20 or 30 years you can truthfully say that Iraq is a wealthy country, but today that's just not the case.
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#14 4aprofit

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:26 PM

Iraq IS the WEALTHIEST country in the World...ALL WILL see this, sooner than later....They have already tapped into every mineral and resource known to man for the most part...the percentages are not even known as per what the future holds...at least as per WHAT ALL Iraq possesses...Besides all the theories and ideas...no one knows what is actually going on...and may never...This will be the NEW BABYLON...take it or leave it...and all of this WILL be seen...yes, even by ALL the naysayers and bashers, regarding what Iraq CANNOT DO!...For what it's worth...
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#15 George Hayduke

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:24 AM

Nice to see you, George.....

Right back atcha KamilKeeper B)

GH
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#16 Jac

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:11 AM

“Gross Domestic Product is the most commonly used single measure of a country’s overall economic activity. It represents the total value at constant prices of final goods and services produced within a country during a specified time period, such as one year.” Source: IMF/World Economic Outlook 2012.

Granted you are referring to GDP per capita, however your own source, Wikipedia states, “GDP per capita is often considered an indicator of a country's standard of living; although this can be problematic because GDP per capita is not a measure of personal income.”

What many of us watch is Iraq’s wealth and stability then personal Iraqi wealth per capita. Obviously as a nation prospers so does its citizens and the GDP per capita would reflect that wealth. The speed with which the GDP per capita reflects the GDP is influenced by many factors but to imply that this change is going to take more than a few decades because, “we can all see how slowly change occurs with Iraq”, flies in the face of current Iraq GDP accelerated growth from .08% in 2010 to an estimated 13.5% next year. Contrast that growth with the US GDP of 3% falling to 2.4% for the same time period.

The GOI and the Dinar still look like the horse to bet on.



GH

GH, how long do we bet on the horse that came out of the gate nine years ago? I am not being inskulting...just wondering.

There seems to be a lot that we do not understand for example why the IMF continiues to extend Iraq's loan payments when obviously these could
easily be paid. Can the Iraqi Dinar revalue while it owes out huge sums to the IMF?
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Jac

#17 Dalite

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:35 AM

GH

GH, how long do we bet on the horse that came out of the gate nine years ago? I am not being inskulting...just wondering.

There seems to be a lot that we do not understand for example why the IMF continiues to extend Iraq's loan payments when obviously these could
easily be paid. Can the Iraqi Dinar revalue while it owes out huge sums to the IMF?


Here's my uninvited opinion, and I realize that it is both uninvited and an opinion.

IIRC, IMF payments are made in SDR, and Paris Club debt is paid in Dollars.

The SDR basket is partially composed of Dollars. The Dinar is pegged to the Dollar.

There is a concept of inflating away Debt. It is generally frowned upon by Creditors.

FDR did it after the Passage of HR1491, and amending USC 12 - 95a to 95b.

Gold was confiscated at $20.00 per ounce, converted to bullion, which was revalued at $35.00 per ounce.

It was used to back the US debt, and in doing so, inflated away 75% of the debt at that time.

With a 1 Dinar note being worth $.00086 on the night before, and even $1.00 the next morning, most of us here could do the conversion, and collectively make a dent in both the Paris Club and IMF Debt from a very modest investment. So could Iraq, but they could inflate away both debts with a single printing.

There would be consequences.

They would quickly be labeled persona non grata by most lending institutions, and worldwide investors would likely reconsider the continuation of their ante in the pot. Some might just take their remaining chips and walk away.

None if this impossible to happen..
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If Con is the Opposite of Pro, what is the Opposite of Progress??

Go Figure.........

****************************************************************************

#18 Jac

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:57 AM

Here's my uninvited opinion, and I realize that it is both uninvited and an opinion.

IIRC, IMF payments are made in SDR, and Paris Club debt is paid in Dollars.

The SDR basket is partially composed of Dollars. The Dinar is pegged to the Dollar.

There is a concept of inflating away Debt. It is generally frowned upon by Creditors.

FDR did it after the Passage of HR1491, and amending USC 12 - 95a to 95b.

Gold was confiscated at $20.00 per ounce, converted to bullion, which was revalued at $35.00 per ounce.

It was used to back the US debt, and in doing so, inflated away 75% of the debt at that time.

With a 1 Dinar note being worth $.00086 on the night before, and even $1.00 the next morning, most of us here could do the conversion, and collectively make a dent in both the Paris Club and IMF Debt from a very modest investment. So could Iraq, but they could inflate away both debts with a single printing.

There would be consequences.

They would quickly be labeled persona non grata by most lending institutions, and worldwide investors would likely reconsider the continuation of their ante in the pot. Some might just take their remaining chips and walk away.

None if this impossible to happen..



Interesting dialogue however all of this information has certainly been researched by many of us over the past five years. I do appreciate your explanation regarding why the IMF may be extending payment of Iraqi loans but the key word is may. No doubt, there are pieces missing to this puzzle.

Thank you for jumping in to bring information.

Edited by Jac, 25 August 2012 - 11:57 AM.

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