150 replies to this topic

[Marj1st]

No, I do not believe in a god or gods of any form.

I believe in the physical constant of energy. I use the term "Humanist" because humanists tend to believe in the goodness of humanity, as opposed to the colder term of atheist.
The humanist slogan is "Be good for goodness sake", which I like alot.

And I like the word blessed - it's stronger than the content or happy, although I have more pagan associations with the word than christian.
(It's ok, I don't believe in their gods, either!)

[bald1]

I prefer to put my Faith in God rather than science. It is much more comforting to know were I came from how I was created than waiting on science to attempt to put it all together and try to explain why they can't.

[NEODinar]

<br />No, I do not believe in a god or gods of any form.  <br /><br />I believe in the physical constant of energy.  I use the term &quot;Humanist&quot; because humanists tend to believe in the goodness of humanity, as opposed to the colder term of atheist.  <br />The humanist slogan is &quot;Be good for goodness sake&quot;, which I like alot.  <br /><br />And I like the word blessed - it's stronger than the content or happy, although I have more pagan associations with the word than christian. <br />(It's ok, I don't believe in their gods, either!)<br />

<br /><br /><br />

"No, I do not believe in a god or gods of any form.

I believe in the physical constant of energy. I use the term "Humanist" because humanists tend to believe in the goodness of humanity, as opposed to the colder term of atheist. The humanist slogan is "Be good for goodness sake", which I like a lot."

- That's cool. And how does the joke go again,,"Humanists are atheists they're just afraid to admit it?" Lol! JK.


"And I like the word blessed - it's stronger than the content or happy"

- It also has a different meaning no? Thats my nit picking again lol!

[uncirculd]

<br /><br /><br />


- Firstly, I would never call you a zionist infidel Uncirculd.

"Without discussing his views, what are your views of life and the universe. Where did it and we come from and what do you believe is the purpose and/or destination of mankind? "

- The million dollar question right there my friend. I can not tell you how the universe came to be or why matter exists. These are questions that science has not been able to and perhaps will never be able to answer. Life on the other hand I believe evolved starting with the big bang. As for the purpose, I don't believe there is a definitive answer for that either. Considering 99% of all other species of life on this earth are now extinct, and the fact that our entire milky way galaxy will be completely swallowed up by the andromeda galaxy in the distant future, it's hard to say if we have some grand purpose beyond simply enjoying our time while it lasts here on earth. Mankind as we know it has only been around for arguably 150,000 or so year. We are babies on the evolutionary timeline compared to some other species. Sharks and ***** for instance have been around nearly unchanged for over 50 million years.

- Likewise to a purpose, I can't really say if there is a grand destination for mankind either. I can only speculate on our future evolution based on what I know about our evolution thus far. If we intend to survive at all, in my opinion humans will have to eventually develop interplanetary travel, and perhaps intergalactic travel because we already know the earth and our galaxy will eventually come to an end. However It's hard for me to even fathom humans being around long enough for this to even have an affect. We could go extinct in 50 years, or evolve into much different beings if we last for millions of more years. When you think about Lucy, the oldest known humanoid fossil dated to be around 3 + million years old and you compare it to modern humans the differences are pretty dramatic. Think if we keep evolving for another 100 million years and our brains' functionality evolves much further past the 8% we use now? INSANE!!

- I think in order to even evolve past our own negative traits we will need to come into a new global state of consciousness. We currently possess the nuclear power to destroy ourselves many times over. We have this power because we are all separated, potentially at odds, and must pose an equal or greater threat for our own survival. Break down the barriers and we decrease the odds of coming to differences on such mass destructive scales imo. That's why I think the eradication of religion is a step that's necessary for our anthropological survival. there is nothing stopping a global jihadist or christian fundamentalist etc from unleashing nuclear war based on a religious premise except lack of opportunity. Imo, I think we're reaching a tipping point were we will either destroy ourselves or be forced to enter some mass scale form of enlightenment. Imo, that enlightenment will start with eliminating the differences, and thus the fears, the hatred, etc. to form a new understanding of ourselves, our origins and our future. An understanding based on reason and logic.

- Having blabbed ridiculously longer than I had intended, (my apologies), I personally think the purpose of life or at least my conscious life is to simply be happy and be a decent person. As far as the destination, thats an open book.

"i am married to an Athiest. Yes, "athiest". We love each other very much and were are total opposites."

- A christian zionist and and an atheist? Wowzers what a combo! Just curious was your husband an atheist before you were married? I ask because it's so rare to find a believer that would marry an atheist. One more question, and I truly mean no offense by this, but like you, curiosity is my motivation here. Being a believer do you think your husband is going to hell, If so do you think he deserves to go?

Wow, your writing is very interesting. Your views are shared by my husband. See I never had conversation with atheist in the past because it is a sensitive matter. Some will be defensive because they don't know me or how I will react. That I guess came from previous encounters with Christians. It was hard to have one open up honestly like my husband and I talk about it.

It is special and many Christians will never get it.

Now you ask about my views on hellfire, universe, etc. Like I said I am Christian from Genesis to Revelation. I think you know most of what that means, in brief the beginning: God is the creator; the end, the fallen angels and Christ will have war and it brings the final peace to mankind.

I believe like most Christians, which means I believe I am a sinner but cannot be otherwise.

I try as you do to be good and that good sometimes is hard. It's easy to be mean. I am not well educated, 2 years college. But when it comes to talking intellectually with my husband I find wisdom that I have no clue where it came from.

Here's why. My husband and I have some really in depth conversations about religions, life,

connection of the humans consciousness , and how the world consciousness reacted on 911.

It's is funny that you say that too. What he calls the consciousness I call the spirit. It is very

interesting because how he explains it and I relate it biblically. He says the universe and we are

all connected consciousness down to the plant life, wild life and feels human does not have the right to control animals in the wild and killing a bug is wrong.

Without getting into our personal conversations, the best thing is we learn from each other. Neither is trying to change the others point of view. What it does is give each other even more understanding of one another. Many couples are both Christians and don't get along. We are opposites and get along great. It is the respect we have as individual. I am me and he is him.

Until I met him I could not understand the atheist. I don't agree with the view of the atheist but I totally respect it.

I believe that many Christians have it wrong. They surround themselves by other Christians and

keep their fellowships with Christians. Well, I don't. Like I said, I am a sinner and I am a Christian. I can't be nothing but a sinner in this life and/or dimension. That's not a ticket to beat the kids, smoke crack, and pray about it on Sunday. It is a constant to be a good person until it comes natural.

To me being Christian means being Christlike. The elders didn't get it back then when Christ hung around with sinners. He would go out of his way to have dinner with sinners.

Why? Because they were the souls he wanted to win. I don't see a difference now between a

Christian or non Christian to be my friend. My gift was not to teach or draw in sinners, my gift is to love no matter what. And believe me my daughter tries that virtue lol

You asked what do I think is mankind's purpose. Again, like the Christians believe. I'm here for his glory. I don't know how some Christians feel, but to me my God is so like beyond superior;

he knows war, he knows love and he chose to be a good God. I feel him and I feel I have no right to ask for anything that I can only thank him. I know he has assigned me some very big angels for some things I have had to endure in life seemed to be beyond the scope of any mans control. I know there is a spiritual war because I have tried to fight it and I can't. That would be when I have to ask God. He fights my spiritual wars. If he didn't I would be very freaked out.

yes I believe in the abyss of inner earth as hot and nasty. I believe the fallen angels are working hard to deceive many to believe inner earth is blissful. UFO's I believe are those fallen angels.

Now am I a freak, yes and no. I do not impose my views of my personal spiritual on people. I do say God bless and pray for people. And you asked do I think my husband will end up in inner earth (fire) ? Well, I know this, if he does I will not know I left him behind. I know this because we are not married in heaven. Now remember when I say I know, this is in my heart.

It is all faith. I could tell you some very interesting stuff in my personal life, but I already wrote

too much. The biggest problem in my life has been expressing.

Wow, I don't know if I even covered your questions, but I probably said too much already.

Anyone else that reads, please don't ask for a debate. This is just for NeoDinar.


PS I don't know, call me weird but I don't mind being called a "Zionist Infidel" is sounds cool. It may not be cool, but it sounds good.

Edited by Markinsa, 25 June 2012 - 10:07 PM.
Removed Duplicate Text

[uncirculd]

Neo, I see I didn't answer if I thought he deserved to go to hell. I don't believe anyone deserves to go to hell. It bothers me that he may go, but I think that all good people will go to heaven some how or another, don't misunderstand. I am not saying all roads lead to God, but I believe he lets them find the way he has given. The God I love says he wishes for no one to be condemned. So he has to know who is truly good. He has to have a plan. I have learned that the covenant with man and God was the Christ, and through him is the way to truth and life. If this is what he wants for good people he will reveal it to them. He would have to. No good person deserves to go to inner earth.

Although at times I wish some would and some folks are so evil they should go. But, another problem I have, I can say I want a bad person to go to jail and rot, and even to hell and burn. But in the end, I would not wish it on anyone. I may think it for a moment, but I don't mean it. That is the sinner side of me. I really love people, even the ones that are crazy mean and evil. But I don't have a problem calling them out when they are bad or evil. You are right when you say that non Christians can be great people who are loving. I married one.

I prefer to put my Faith in God rather than science. It is much more comforting to know were I came from how I was created than waiting on science to attempt to put it all together and try to explain why they can't.

Yeah me too, but maybe just someday science could actually prove God. ya never know.

[Marj1st]

Hey Neo,

I think that the we get to play "good cop" = me the happy humanist and "bad cop" = you the ******* atheist?
Too funny and I am totally kidding.

I think they are basically the same damn thing, different connotation, though.
And I do like turning words around on people, which may explain why I like the word "blessed".
Maybe my ego is just too damn big.
We will find out eventually, I guess.

Some excellent discussion here!

[Wayfarer]

NEODinar,

The strength and flowing logic of your oratory compels me to speak. A bright mind such as yours, especially one with this degree of studied passion, deserves every perspective, even my 2 cents.

You asserted "Our fear of provoking religious hatred has rendered us incapable of criticizing ideas that are now patently absurd and increasingly maladaptive. It has also obliged us to lie to ourselves — repeatedly and at the highest levels — about the compatibility between religious faith and scientific rationality."

Well stated.

However, what if your basic premise is wrong? What if there are reasons for this human dilemma other than the "incompatibility" of science and religion? What if science and "true" religion were ALWAYS meant to be considered as simply two facets of the same whole, which is man's (Black Swan, including woman's complete reality?

As you know, religion has always had a focus upon a human being's spiritual "self" and the inner promptings of his or her soul and spirit. The other (science), though, surprisingly, still in its infancy, is solely oriented towards the acquisition of knowledge stored up in Nature--our physical dwelling--which includes all matter and the universe itself.

It was impossible in past ages for the two to achieve either a balanced perception of the other. Although the light still shines from brilliant minds of even thousands of years ago, globally, human conditions and disparate levels of advancement were far different then now. Even common standards for "truth" were absent. However, human society has now evolved further. We have somehow, but miraculously, entered a new age. A new civilization is emerging, one finally equipped and prepared to collectively encourage, implement, improve upon, and sustain these necessary and practical products of the "mind".

Is religion not only still necessary but required for human existence? No, I'm not speaking about religious beliefs commonly expressed here, in churches, synagogues, mosques, or on TV. The human mind has been freed from the oppressive past in which each one was born. Even the dumbest among us know not to build golden calves. And anyone can see that scientific endeavors have already placed traditional religious thought and beliefs in the shadows, thus making religion appear irrelevant...superstitious...an outworn vestige of the past "dark" age.

Here, I believe, is the essence of your argument. And given prevailing religious confusion and conflict, even widely held theological notions of "the death of God", it's quite easy for people like you and me to "throw the baby out with the bath water", so to speak. So I am a respecter of your views.

If you want to, and if you can suspend disbelief, as they say, may I offer "logical" evidence that shows God is responsible for our emergence into this new age. I propose showing a connection for our remarkable scientific and technological advancements, and even why people are abandoning traditional beliefs (Europe, the bastion of Christianity, is now largely secular).

In other words, I am presenting an opportunity for you to compare contemporary religious beliefs against what the Holy Bible, for example, actually says. No twisted logic, no strange assertions, just "what the Bible actually says". I promise.

Then I will direct you to an increasingly downloaded (worldwide) "bridge" between science and religion. It has mathematics in their highest form, if that is what you require, and an explanatory English narrative. You will enjoy it.

Are you up to suspending disbelief?

[NEODinar]

<br />Wow, your writing is very interesting. Your views are shared by my husband. See I never had conversation with atheist in the past because it is a sensitive matter. Some will be defensive because they don't know me or how I will react. That I guess came from previous encounters with Christians. It was hard to have one open up honestly like my husband and I talk about it.<br /><br />It is special and many Christians will never get it.<br /><br />Now you ask about my views on hellfire, universe, etc. Like I said I am Christian from Genesis to Revelation. I think you know most of what that means, in brief the beginning: God is the creator; the end, the fallen angels and Christ will have war and it brings the final peace to mankind.<br /><br />I believe like most Christians, which means I believe I am a sinner but cannot be otherwise.<br /><br />I try as you do to be good and that good sometimes is hard. It's easy to be mean. I am not well educated, 2 years college. But when it comes to talking intellectually with my husband I find wisdom that I have no clue where it came from. <br /><br />Here's why. My husband and I have some really in depth conversations about religions, life,<br /><br /><b><i>connection of the humans consciousness , and how the world consciousness reacted on 911.</i></b><br /><br />It's is funny that you say that too. What he calls the consciousness I call the spirit. It is very <br /><br />interesting because how he explains it and I relate it biblically. He says the universe and we are<br /><br />all connected consciousness down to the plant life, wild life and feels human does not have the right to control animals in the wild and killing a bug is wrong. <br /><br />Without getting into our personal conversations, the best thing is we learn from each other. Neither is trying to change the others point of view. What it does is give each other even more understanding of one another. Many couples are both Christians and don't get along. We are opposites and get along great. It is the respect we have as individual. I am me and he is him.<br /><br />Until I met him I could not understand the atheist. I don't agree with the view of the atheist but I totally respect it. <br /><br />I believe that many Christians have it wrong. They surround themselves by other Christians and <br /><br />keep their fellowships with Christians. Well, I don't. Like I said, I am a sinner and I am a Christian. I can't be nothing but a sinner in this life and/or dimension. That's not a ticket to beat the kids, smoke crack, and pray about it on Sunday. It is a constant to be a good person until it comes natural. <br /><br />To me being Christian means being Christlike. The elders didn't get it back then when Christ hung around with sinners. He would go out of his way to have dinner with sinners.<br /><br />Why? Because they were the souls he wanted to win. I don't see a difference now between a<br /><br />Christian or non Christian to be my friend. My gift was not to teach or draw in sinners, my gift is to love no matter what. And believe me my daughter tries that virtue lol<br /><br />You asked what do I think is mankind's purpose. Again, like the Christians believe. I'm here for his glory. I don't know how some Christians feel, but to me my God is so like beyond superior;<br /><br />he knows war, he knows love and he chose to be a good God. I feel him and I feel I have no right to ask for anything that I can only thank him. I know he has assigned me some very big angels for some things I have had to endure in life seemed to be beyond the scope of any mans control. I know there is a spiritual war because I have tried to fight it and I can't. That would be when I have to ask God. He fights my spiritual wars. If he didn't I would be very freaked out. <br /><br />yes I believe in the abyss of inner earth as hot and nasty. I believe the fallen angels are working hard to deceive many to believe inner earth is blissful. UFO's I believe are those fallen angels.<br /><br />Now am I a freak, yes and no. I do not impose my views of my personal spiritual on people. I do say God bless and pray for people. And you asked do I think my husband will end up in inner earth (fire) ? Well, I know this, if he does I will not know I left him behind. I know this because we are not married in heaven. Now remember when I say I know, this is in my heart.<br /><br />It is all faith. I could tell you some very interesting stuff in my personal life, but I already wrote<br /><br />too much. The biggest problem in my life has been expressing. <br /><br />Wow, I don't know if I even covered your questions, but I probably said too much already.<br /><br />Anyone else that reads, please don't ask for a debate. This is just for NeoDinar.<br /><br /><br />PS I don't know, call me weird but I don't mind being called a &quot;Zionist Infidel&quot; is sounds cool. It may not be cool, but it sounds good. <img src="http://dinarvets.com...lt/biggrin.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />


"I believe like most Christians, which means I believe I am a sinner but cannot be otherwise."

- Sad, I'm sorry to hear that you believe you are a sinner by nature. That's a harsh pov.

"I try as you do to be good and that good sometimes is hard. It's easy to be mean. I am not well educated, 2 years college. But when it comes to talking intellectually with my husband I find wisdom that I have no clue where it came from. "

- People can only be the best they can be. If you follow the golden rule however and aren't expected to uphold some unrealistic divine moral code that ALL believers break at some point it's really not hard to be a decent person. I"m with you at 2 years of college, but don't fret, a degree doesn't equal intelligence by any means uncircurld you and I are doing just fine my friend.

"all connected consciousness down to the plant life, wild life and feels human does not have the right to control animals in the wild and killing a bug is wrong. "

- Interesting, and I hear where your husband is coming from. Why does one form of life hold any greater importance than another? In reality it doesn't unless of course one is religious , than the "I'm special" syndrome takes over and suddenly man is more important than the rest of the animal kingdom. Having said that I squish bugs if they're in my home, but I try to avoid killing any living creature if it's unnecessary, and if I do I always find myself apologizing to the bug, lol! "Sorry little guy" squish. I was never one of those kids that sat in the stoops and burned ants with magnifying glasses. I always had a basic respect for all life, because no matter the size I always ended up putting myself in their position and always had the thought of what if we weren't the top of the food chain, and we had giant monsters that burned us with magnifying glasses for pleasure, oh wait I guess god fits that description pretty well lol!

"Until I met him I could not understand the atheist. I don't agree with the view of the atheist but I totally respect it. "

- I think It will rub off on you eventually. If you're in a relationship with an atheist imo, it will only be a matter of time before you follow suit. As I mentioned you are in an EXTREMELY rare situation and you are this open already, that means you have the capacity to reason and critically think about things. That is a great sign of intelligence. I understand you're not attempting to change anyone's views, but I am, I hope you can change yours.

"yes I believe in the abyss of inner earth as hot and nasty. I believe the fallen angels are working hard to deceive many to believe inner earth is blissful. UFO's I believe are those fallen angels."

- Wait huh? You believe ufo's are fallen angels? Thats a new one. Points for originality, but come on uncircurld, they are called ufo's because they're unidentified. Plus if they're FALLEN angels why don't they continue they're descent to the earths surface? They simply fall, literally or metaphorically to a certain point and then what just sit and hover in our skies until they disappear? Ask yourself these critical questions my friend.

"It is all faith."

- indeed it is.

"The biggest problem in my life has been expressing. "

- I have that same issue.

"PS I don't know, call me weird but I don't mind being called a "Zionist Infidel" is sounds cool."

- Lol! It does actually. If i ever get a dog thats what it's name will be lol! "Get the ball Zionist Infidel!!"

[NEODinar]

<br />Neo, I see I didn't answer if I thought he deserved to go to hell. I don't believe anyone deserves to go to hell. It bothers me that he may go, but I think that all good people will go to heaven some how or another, don't misunderstand. I am not saying all roads lead to God, but I believe he lets them find the way he has given. The God I love says he wishes for no one to be condemned. So he has to know who is truly good. He has to have a plan. I have learned that the covenant with man and God was the Christ, and through him is the way to truth and life. If this is what he wants for good people he will reveal it to them. He would have to. No good person deserves to go to inner earth. <br /><br />Although at times I wish some would <img src='http://dinarvets.com...ult/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> and some folks are so evil they should go. But, another problem I have, I can say I want a bad person to go to jail and rot, and even to hell and burn. But in the end, I would not wish it on anyone. I may think it for a moment, but I don't mean it. That is the sinner side of me. I really love people, even the ones that are crazy mean and evil. But I don't have a problem calling them out when they are bad or evil. You are right when you say that non Christians can be great people who are loving. I married one.<br /><br /><br /><br />Yeah me too, but maybe just someday science could actually prove God. ya never know.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

"Neo, I see I didn't answer if I thought he deserved to go to hell. I don't believe anyone deserves to go to hell. It bothers me that he may go, but I think that all good people will go to heaven some how or another, don't misunderstand."

- See this is why I think you are a latent atheist. If you don't think your husband is going to hell and you think that somehow all good people will end up in heaven then you are completely contradicting what christianity actually says. The reason you are doing this is because you're an intelligent individual and you can determine for yourself that it really doesn't make sense that your husband, a good person would burn for eternity just for using his logic and not believing. You can see the bibles rule that all non believers will burn doesn't make any logical sense. Your own innate morally tells you this, because you're truly a good person. On the other hand the majority of other believers here hang on to "the word" to the end. They believe that your husband and every other good person who isn't a christian is going to burn in hell. This is complete nonsense, and i believe just sad.

- So my question to you is if you're able to simply do away with the MOST IMPORTANT premise of christianity, that being that belief is necessary, then why believe at all?? If you believe an atheist will still find his/her way to heaven as you believe your husband will, then why not become an atheist yourself? What more can blind faith give you out of this life except the promise of a greater life after death? If you don't adhere to the number one requirement, you give yourself freedom not to have this blind faith. Let it go.

"But in the end, I would not wish it on anyone. I may think it for a moment, but I don't mean it. That is the sinner side of me. "

- There's nothing wrong with thinking hitler deserves hell my friend. This is no sin. Fry that scumbag and anyone like him.

"I really love people, even the ones that are crazy mean and evil."

- I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous imo friend, and I don't believe you truly mean this. If someone threw my family in an oven as the nazis did, I would have anything but love for them. You don't necessarily have to hate mean, evil people, but it's just odd that you would have ANY love for them. Jmo




[NEODinar]

<br />NEODinar,<br /><br />The strength and flowing logic of your oratory compels me to speak. A bright mind such as yours, especially one with this degree of studied passion, deserves every perspective, even my 2 cents.<br /><br />You asserted &quot;<b>Our fear of provoking religious hatred has rendered us incapable of criticizing ideas that are now patently absurd and increasingly maladaptive. It has also obliged us to lie to ourselves — repeatedly and at the highest levels — about the compatibility between religious faith and scientific rationality</b>.&quot;<br /><br />Well stated. <br /><br />However, what if your basic premise is wrong? What if there are reasons for this human dilemma other than the &quot;incompatibility&quot; of science and religion?  What if science and &quot;true&quot; religion were ALWAYS meant to be considered as simply two facets of the same whole, which is man's (Black Swan, including woman's <img src='http://dinarvets.com...fault/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> complete reality? <br /><br />As you know, religion has always had a focus upon a human being's spiritual &quot;self&quot; and the inner promptings of his or her soul and spirit. The other (science), though, surprisingly, still in its infancy, is solely oriented towards the acquisition of knowledge stored up in Nature--our physical dwelling--which includes all matter and the universe itself. <br /><br />It was impossible in past ages for the two to achieve either a balanced perception of the other. Although the light still shines from brilliant minds of even thousands of years ago, globally, human conditions and disparate levels of advancement were far different then now. Even common standards for &quot;truth&quot; were absent. However, human society has now evolved further. We have somehow, but miraculously, entered a new age. A new civilization is emerging, one finally equipped and prepared to collectively encourage, implement, improve upon, and sustain these necessary and practical products of the &quot;mind&quot;. <br /><br />Is religion not only still necessary but required for human existence? No, I'm not speaking about religious beliefs commonly expressed here, in churches, synagogues, mosques, or on TV. The human mind has been freed from the oppressive past in which each one was born. Even the dumbest among us know not to build golden calves. And anyone can see that scientific endeavors have already placed traditional religious thought and beliefs in the shadows, thus making religion appear irrelevant...superstitious...an outworn vestige of the past &quot;dark&quot; age. <br /><br />Here, I believe, is the essence of your argument. And given prevailing religious confusion and conflict, even widely held theological notions of &quot;the death of God&quot;, it's quite easy for people like you and me to &quot;throw the baby out with the bath water&quot;, so to speak. So I am a respecter of your views.<br /><br />If you want to, and if you can suspend disbelief, as they say, may I offer &quot;logical&quot; evidence that shows God is responsible for our emergence into this new age. I propose showing a connection for our remarkable scientific and technological advancements, and even why people are abandoning traditional beliefs (Europe, the bastion of Christianity, is now largely secular). <br /><br />In other words, I am presenting an opportunity for you to compare contemporary religious beliefs against what the Holy Bible, for example, actually says. No twisted logic, no strange assertions, just &quot;what the Bible actually says&quot;. I promise. <br /><br />Then I will direct you to an increasingly downloaded (worldwide) &quot;bridge&quot; between science and religion. It has mathematics in their highest form, if that is what you require, and an explanatory English narrative. You will enjoy it.<br /><br />Are you up to suspending disbelief?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

"You asserted "Our fear of provoking religious hatred has rendered us incapable of criticizing ideas that are now patently absurd and increasingly maladaptive. It has also obliged us to lie to ourselves — repeatedly and at the highest levels — about the compatibility between religious faith and scientific rationality."

- These were not my words my friend although I certainly agree with them.

""If you want to, and if you can suspend disbelief, as they say, may I offer "logical" evidence that shows God is responsible for our emergence into this new age. I propose showing a connection for our remarkable scientific and technological advancements, and even why people are abandoning traditional beliefs (Europe, the bastion of Christianity, is now largely secular).

In other words, I am presenting an opportunity for you to compare contemporary religious beliefs against what the Holy Bible, for example, actually says. No twisted logic, no strange assertions, just "what the Bible actually says". I promise.

Then I will direct you to an increasingly downloaded (worldwide) "bridge" between science and religion. It has mathematics in their highest form, if that is what you require, and an explanatory English narrative. You will enjoy it.

Are you up to suspending disbelief? "

- Sure, I'll give it a look, but I'm a bit confused as to what exactly you are trying to explain/prove or show me. Are you stating that modern religion has scientific support and can be explained through mathematics? Are you trying to show me the differences between modern religion and what the bible says? Let me know, sounds interesting, but I need a little clarification. Nice writing btw, reeks of intelligence. Sorry it took a while to respond, hopefully you get this and can elaborate further. thanks

[Black Swan]

Since it's Friday, at least here in New Zealand, I thought maybe we can go lite and breezy for a post or two. I saw this and thought of this thread. It is not meant to be a poke at Christianity, promise, instead it's just having a bit of fun at today's youths and how things have changed in how JC may have to make his delivery.





Tiff