24 replies to this topic

[smee2]

I am getting really quite tired of coming to a Dinar site and having the first half dozen entries be American Political Bashing. When you hear this kind of put down of the government spoken of by "new Americans: those who chose to come here, those who were born here jump up and down and say "If you don't like it ... leave!"

Well, for those who feel your country is such a terrible place, maybe you should try taking some of your own advice. I mean, if you live in a place you don't like ... move! *shrug* Why not?

There are a lot of places you might choose from that would be far better suited to your needs. There are places with great climate, good tax shelters, fewer rules, pioneer living with lots of guns and knives if that is your style, or modern conveniences for a price if that is your style. If you find a place you like you can always save those tax dollars you won't be paying out so you can send the kids back to the US for a good education if one isn't available where you are. Same with health care ... need an operation that isn't available in your little corner of the world? Go back to the US and pay for it and then you are done, no more medical bills till you need more medical help. Skrew this business of a medical insurance plan you don't like. Pollution? Not in the far corners of the world where the greatest pollution may be the washed up coconut fronds on the front beach as opposed to the iguanas living in the shade under your hammock out back. All you need in some places is a one bedroom house with lots of trees and hammocks and you can handle all the visitors who come to see where you have gotten yourself to. Really, if you don't like it where you are, if the politics is so reprehensible, don't think anything you are going to do will change it if all you you are going to do is complain. The only thing that will change it for you will be leaving it behind.

Now, if you really want to make a difference, stop preaching to the choir. You get off your butt, turn off the computer, take a handful of brochures for a candidate you think will get the right stuff going and start knocking on doors, or standing on street corners, and remember to take some candidate buttons with you. Don't want to knock and stand? Volunteer to do the office work needed to get and keep a candidate visible and in the running. Give up your Saturday mornings for the cause. Put off the games and the pub nights and the "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" weekends ... go out and promote what you love about your country by promoting the person you think will achieve that goal.

No one you know of in your area running for the party that will make the right kind of changes? Get out there and run for office! It might mean four years of less time with the gamers, and beer buddies, and on the computer. But hey, it will be four years dedicated to trying to make a difference. Get in there and find out from the bottom up where the problem begins. I mean, everyone starts out with great intentions, what they want to achieve, how they want to see themselves and other Americans, all other Americans, "live long and prosper". But something happens along the way. Find out what. Solve that problem. make a difference!

But, then again, if you don't really have THAT kind of conviction, if your conviction regarding the politics of the day is only as deep as one can go by parking it in front of a computer screen and sounding off ... maybe you should rethink the sandy beaches and tropical nights and iguana stew. Hey, if you are of a religious bent, you might combine two loves ... the freedom from taxes and American political bs with the opportunity to become one of the chosen to go and practice your mission on a whole population of non-Christian natives who think that banana leaves are good enough to dress in and coconut milk is best fermented. Just sayin' ...



smee2

[pattyangel]

Smee, you make some valid points. And I'm sick of the Political Bashing also.

The American people are weary of our political parties. We've seen division happen because our systems are corrupt, the media feeds half truth, half false information to the people. Our leaders have caused division within the American people. So you see we can't just get up and leave because we're not happy, it doesn't make things better when we run away. Things just don't change because we run away from the problems. America has issues and it will take the people to make the changes for the better. We the people need to have our voices heard throughout. Whether it be through TV, radio, newspapers, faxes and of course the internet. You see Smee, America is not a terrible place to live, its a God given place that God gave to us to share, and take care of. And that is what the American people are trying to do.

We are making a difference, but we all have our own way of making a difference. Some might be a little louder than others, there are some that will pray their heart out for a better world. We all make a difference in some form. I think the American people have the conviction of an American heart, to see that this country is run with peace and integrity. Just cause we have one bad apple in the bunch, doesn't mean we are all bad apples.

This is just my simple opinion of what I think is going on in America. I said this before, Peace and Justice in this world require a divinely inspired change in the human heart.

[littlefeet]

PA......

[eLemonator]

hey smee, your not american, so you have no right to complain about us complaining about OUR country, and if you want to debate it i would be glad to. before you do I suggest reading the declaration of Independence, and the constitution! it says in there, that we have the right to form a new government if the current one isn't working! how are the rest of us supposed to know if others feel the same way we do if we don't discuss it? so if you don't like the context of the article you are reading, then don't read it, its free will! free will is great ain't it! oh yeah by the way we have the right of FREEDOM of SPEECH!

and just so you know I am a patriot, but I served my country, that is why we cherish the right to complain about how corrupt our system is, or how slow government moves, or how health care cost so much. so please don't try to infringe upon OUR rights! and heads up, my wife is Canadian, my kids are dual citizenship so you may not want to go down that road either!

GO RV
GO USA

[DaveH]

sorry smee, but if you dont like the political posts, just like any other thing, dont read them, that is a choice we all have, to change the channel so to speak. One thing I as an American really dislike, is someone from another country telling me how I should feel or behave, what I should do.

Quit the crying cuz we are still free to speak our mind. And most of us that do the complaining, do the voting as well.

So if you dont like what we have to say, we just might remember that, the next time you are getting your arse kicked by some terrorist state or scumbag orginization. Maybe next time we will keep to ourselves and let the arse kickings proceed.

Cheers!

[smee2]

hey smee, your not american, so you have no right to complain about us complaining about OUR country, and if you want to debate it i would be glad to. before you do I suggest reading the declaration of Independence, and the constitution! it says in there, that we have the right to form a new government if the current one isn't working! how are the rest of us supposed to know if others feel the same way we do if we don't discuss it? so if you don't like the context of the article you are reading, then don't read it, its free will! free will is great ain't it! oh yeah by the way we have the right of FREEDOM of SPEECH!

and just so you know I am a patriot, but I served my country, that is why we cherish the right to complain about how corrupt our system is, or how slow government moves, or how health care cost so much. so please don't try to infringe upon OUR rights! and heads up, my wife is Canadian, my kids are dual citizenship so you may not want to go down that road either!

GO RV
GO USA

I am not trying to infringe on your rights to freedom of speech, or discount the values your country was formed on, as in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. What I AM saying is that there is a time and a place ... and I am trying to tell you that to get the change you seek, and many others seek, is to make that time and place the EFFECTIVE time and place. And preaching to the choir in a forum that isn't even dedicated to political change is NOT the effective time and place. It becomes an aggravation for those who are not interested, those who are not American, and those who are here for the purpose of the forum. Don't read it? Okay, but when I have to read through half of the first page of headlines to find a non-bashing, non-political, dinar related item, then I think there is a vast amount of non-effective bashing going on.

What I have been trying to say for over a year now, in small ways and larger, is that so many of you want change, protest for change, agitate for change, but you are doing it by sitting on your duff in front of a computer. There are more effective ways to do it. You are not reaching your target market here. Your target market is the guy coming out of the WalMart, looking at his receipt, and wondering why it is that even those prices are going up. Your target market is the mom who puts back the jug of milk not because it is too expensive, but because today she can only afford the smaller container, and having to leave the better bargain behind because of finances gets her dander up. Your target market is the downtown worker who can't afford to buy lunch and forgot his on the kitchen counter, the farmer who plants ten acres less this year because he can't sell it for a profit even if he plants, the construction worker who has to take a non-union job without benefits because it is that or see his kids go to school hungry. THOSE are the places you need to try to reach people. None, if any at all, will be found surfing an investment site.

My background is in advertising, and all the various aspects of promotion. You want to promote a better choice of government, meaning getting people to understand something they sure as heck didn't with the last vote, right? Well, you cannot do that the lazy way, by spouting off on an investment forum. I keep saying get off your butt. Get out and campaign. Run for office. Support this beautiful, God-given country you all seem to love but also seem to hate.

When I was first privileged to vote the age to vote was 21. I have been voting ever since that time, which is over forty years. My vote in itself has never seemed really to make much difference. Either I voted for a loser who would have lost or a winner who would have won. But during the decades that I was able to volunteer, and even run for office, I felt the system working. I also saw it fail when the banners were down, and the crowds gone home, and the speeches long gone. Bashing people to other people won't make that change. You want to have your words make any difference? Tell it to the mountain ... the one that won't come to you. Go to it. Use the internet, and email. Set up a site to get your message out, don't just piggy back on someone else's other-purpose site (like investments). Write letters, have grass roots meetings when the issue isn't, repeat IS NOT elections. Start working for change WITH the people IN office by being a force they cannot ignore. Don't wait for the elections! That's up to four years away! Start working your representative a week after the elections are over. And keep it up. But for heaven's sake don't waste your time, and energy and good intentions sitting on an investment site and pushing something a lot of investors, especially the ones not in your country, have no interest in. BE EFFECTIVE. MAKE YOUR EFFORTS COUNT!!!

Oh and about that freedom of speech thing ... you have it but you have it wrong. You do NOT have the right to highjack someone else's property to put up your "message" You no more have the right to use this site for YOUR message than you do to put posters up on the all glass doors of your own bank, or the WalMart, or on the postal boxes. Try it, and see how far your freedom of speech gets you! Mr. Montana has been kind enough to allow you to use his forum, NOT YOUR forum, but HIS forum, to put up political stuff under the off topic heading. I did it myself as you see. But he tells us to do so without, get that WITHOUT being disrespectful. I cannot think of much more disrespect than putting up a post labelling your President as a Dictator.

And by the way, the title of this thread did mention I wish it could be read only. That is because I don't wish to become embroiled in endless discussions with people who think they have the only correct viewpoint. I don't believe I am perfect, or have all the answers. I also do not have the kind of time or energy to put into defending myself. I stated my viewpoint and will let it stand.

smee2

[40oz]

Mr. Montana has been kind enough to allow you to use his forum, NOT YOUR forum, but HIS forum, to put up political stuff under the off topic heading.

He was even kind enough to take a poll on the subject a couple of years ago. The result was basically, not too many people care.

I think a lot of members use the category functions of the forum rather than constantly hitting 'What's New?'.

My suggestion is, as soon as you read something you don't like, avert your eye to your keyboard, hold down the 'alt' key, and hit the left arrow. If you're really super-duper offended hold the 'alt' key and hit the F4, this will get you out of any sticky internet situation.

[smee2]

He was even kind enough to take a poll on the subject a couple of years ago. The result was basically, not too many people care.

I think a lot of members use the category functions of the forum rather than constantly hitting 'What's New?'.

My suggestion is, as soon as you read something you don't like, avert your eye to your keyboard, hold down the 'alt' key, and hit the left arrow. If you're really super-duper offended hold the 'alt' key and hit the F4, this will get you out of any sticky internet situation.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll just do that ... Yup ... right ... so would pulling the plug.

But if I (and I am nt the only one) come here to read about dinar, and Iraq, why do I have to cycle through all the bashing political headlines first? And a lot of them don't sound like a political bash at first. Because they are in the off topics section they could be anything and some of what people put up there are very interesting.

Now, if all the political bs was relegated to its own little forum, and not anywhere else, sort of like the music, and l o p sections, all those interested in political bashing could go there and have the time of their lives! The rest of us could just ignore them without having to click and wait and scroll down to see what it really is if the headline is not sufficiently definitive.



smee2

[smee2]

Smee, you make some valid points. And I'm sick of the Political Bashing also.

The American people are weary of our political parties. We've seen division happen because our systems are corrupt, the media feeds half truth, half false information to the people. Our leaders have caused division within the American people. So you see we can't just get up and leave because we're not happy, it doesn't make things better when we run away. Things just don't change because we run away from the problems. America has issues and it will take the people to make the changes for the better. We the people need to have our voices heard throughout. Whether it be through TV, radio, newspapers, faxes and of course the internet. You see Smee, America is not a terrible place to live, its a God given place that God gave to us to share, and take care of. And that is what the American people are trying to do.

We are making a difference, but we all have our own way of making a difference. Some might be a little louder than others, there are some that will pray their heart out for a better world. We all make a difference in some form. I think the American people have the conviction of an American heart, to see that this country is run with peace and integrity. Just cause we have one bad apple in the bunch, doesn't mean we are all bad apples.

This is just my simple opinion of what I think is going on in America. I said this before, Peace and Justice in this world require a divinely inspired change in the human heart.

PA ... I know running away doesn't solve a situation. First of all most of the bashers don't seem interested in solving the current situation, they seem more interested in gathering like views and getting people to vote. That won't change much. No matter who is in office, if the people don't keep on their case, in a direct and challenging way, they all fall into the same routines the last guy did. I was serious about people becoming pro-active in an EFFECTIVE way.

Second, a lot of the "where to go is you don't like it here" stuff was sarcasm ... you know ... like when you agree with someone and use the eye roll? Well, I was being sarcastic.

Next, though your view is great, a lot of people really don't share it. Maybe most do. I prefer to think that on the whole people are good. But there are a lot of people out there who really believe they have inherited a country that isn't good any longer. They seem to believe that leadership alone is what makes or breaks a country. They don't seem to understand that it is the will of the people that is the only thing that will change the situation for the better, and that isn't a passive will. It has to be an active will. It isn't enough to go to church at Christmas and Easter and maybe Good Friday and think that you have done all you can do for the church, or for your own soul. Unfortunately too many people treat politics the same. They get busy that day and not vote and use an excuse. If we operated in the old fashioned city-state way, where every citizen, meaning every person over a certain age, was made to show up, and show by a raising of hands, or pebbles in an urn, what they want, and were not allowed to NOT show up ... then you would have true representative government. As it is a lot of people are like balloons ... the hotter the air the higher they fly.

Patty, I respect you and your opinions, and I hope this comment has not upset you. But it is how I feel. I have been your Neighbour to the North all my life. I have watched American political shenanigans since I could read. I have had very little interest in it because it seems to me it is always the same old same old. New faces at the head of the line, but the people working beneath that head are doing the same old things.

I ran for office once. And won. It was a hard fought battle with the vote being close ... nine votes. I ended up on a School Board with no idea what to do. I had no idea how to get done the things I wanted to accomplish for my school district. You know how I found out? First of all there was a "seminar" where all "new" board members in the entire province gathered and got three or four days of concentrated instruction on things like how to conduct a meeting, how to form a committee and how to report committee findings.

Other than that, getting back to the district and having to actually do things, I had to ask the office people how to. And you know what? It was always the same old same old. They told me the things I could do, and how, and it wasn't very much believe me. Then they told me the things I could NOT do and suddenly I felt all my hopes flushed. Because the only way to do things was set down by a bunch of rules that did not permit meaningful change. I had been elected to show up, say yes or no according to whatever some committee said, and shut my face and sit back down and be quiet. Every time I tried to for an "initiative" I was told it wasn't done that way. There was no way to do it.

The same goes for political representatives. They show up in the state capitol or in Washington and they are being shepherded through their paces by people who did the same for the previous holders of the office, and maybe those before them. And good intentions do not get things done. So before long your newly elected representatives are following, not leading, not innovating, but following. And who are they following? The big brass. And who is directing the big brass? The men who come up with the money to get the biggest brass elected. Money talks. Good intentions go by the by.

So, sorry to bore you but just so you know where I stand, I don't speak from no experience here. I speak from more experience than most people. Personally I still think the way to make changes is to hammer the people who got elected, and get them to hammer the people at the top, and for the people at the top to tell the money men where to stick their next political donations. Four years. If we could get the money influence out of the system within the first month or less after the election, it wouldn't matter if no representative ever sat more than one term. They would have enough freedom to make some change. Maybe the next change would come from the next elected representative.

I don't know ... I am just as discouraged as most people when it comes to seeing my life taxed away before my very eyes, and feeling helpless about it. I am not saying I have the answers to how to make the system work, though the Ancient Greeks and their total democracy, every person voting, came close and would again. I just know that this forum is not the place to recruit voters. If someone wants to be really EFFECTIVE in their quest to make changes, they have to start by getting out to do the hand shaking, door knocking, button giving, and volunteering.



smee2

[The Machine]

I see your point Smee ..... but then again I don't care about the american political stuff I just dont read half of it !! and why should I .....

I have no plan to ever live in the US .... i'm an Irishman living in Scotland right now, pretty happy here too...


Just do what I do ... dont read them

[umbertino]

Quote
Peace and Justice in this world require a divinely inspired change in the human heart.
End Quote
Holy words, my Friend... My humble take... It will never happen....
Those allowed to reach the political top ( almost always with very few exceptions) are permitted to do so ( all over the World) because the Powers That Be DO KNOW they will change nothing which might affect the basic economic balance said Powers want to keep as they are for their financial greed and love for pure Power...
So these chosen ones (political chiefs) will always be right for the job ....CYNICAL, COLD, INDIFFERENT AND NOT CARING AT ALL OF THE PEOPLE NEEDS...
Sorry if I sound slightly pessimistic......

Edited by umbertino, 05 May 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Scrumdiddles]

I am at the store right now. Does anyone need a tissue or maybe a Depends?

I cannot think of much more disrespect than putting up a post labelling your President as a Dictator.


Hmmm, after a thinking a long time about that, oh about 1 sec, He is a dictator. Disrespect, uh wrong word used in the wrong place. He is disrespecting the People.

[The Machine]

I am at the store right now. Does anyone need a tissue or maybe a Depends?

I cannot think of much more disrespect than putting up a post labelling your President as a Dictator.

Hmmm, after a thinking a long time about that, oh about 1 sec, He is a dictator. Disrespect, uh wrong word used in the wrong place. He is disrespecting the People.

You got my vote !!

[rightsonword]

Good grief. What is so foreign about the concept of ignoring threads one has no interest in reading? If you don't care for American politics and don't care for the modern way (internet social medium) of sharing ideas and beliefs, then ignore it. I don't go into Canadian threads and complain about topics that don't not concern me. *face palm*

[bamagirl]

PattyAngel....EXCELLENT post my friend!!! @Smee, you really do not know if the people posting here are 'sitting on their duffs' and complaining or if in their time away from the computer they are out there trying to make a difference, you are assuming.....also great posts Elemonator and Dave!

[pattyangel]

Smee, no offense taken. I'm with you in making a difference, I'm with you in making changes. Smee, people have their way of soliciting their opinions and one way is on forums on the internet. The internet is filled with information. It's the number one way of getting information on any subject.

{"Now, if you really want to make a difference, stop preaching to the choir. You get off your butt, turn off the computer, take a handful of brochures for a candidate you think will get the right stuff going and start knocking on doors, or standing on street corners, and remember to take some candidate buttons with you. Don't want to knock and stand? Volunteer to do the office work needed to get and keep a candidate visible and in the running. Give up your Saturday mornings for the cause. Put off the games and the pub nights and the "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" weekends ... go out and promote what you love about your country by promoting the person you think will achieve that goal."}


All that you mentioned above to this day continued to be done. There are tons of people very active promoting their candidate. Now as for games and the pubs, I have to say you can find some very interesting people who are highly intelligent regarding their political knowledge. And I for one love my country and speak highly of it.

I understand your frustration, I wish they had a separate section for this subject, but in the meantime...I believe you know what members bring what to the table and those are the ones you can by pass. Smee, don't waste your positive energy on this, your positive energy can be use in other areas on this site. Your excellent in your writings and although we have never met I admire you for that. Hugs to you today.

[mydogz]

If you don't like it,don't read.

[DinarMillionaire]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll just do that ... Yup ... right ... so would pulling the plug.

[b]But if I (and I am nt the only one) come here to read about dinar, and Iraq, [/b]why do I have to cycle through all the bashing political headlines first? And a lot of them don't sound like a political bash at first. Because they are in the off topics section they could be anything and some of what people put up there are very interesting.

Now, if all the political bs was relegated to its own little forum, and not anywhere else, sort of like the music, and l o p sections, all those interested in political bashing could go there and have the time of their lives! The rest of us could just ignore them without having to click and wait and scroll down to see what it really is if the headline is not sufficiently definitive.
smee2

You really don't have to "cycle through" much to stay on Dinar and Iraq, what a crock. All you have to do is peruse through the titles and PASS UP THE POLITICAL ONES. You have posted much in the "Off Topics Section" with political substance. If you really can't stand the subjects you complain about, STAY OUT OF THE POLITICAL SUBJECTS! It REALLY is that easy. It has a HEADLINE that YOU CHOOSE to enter. I can't understand and can't stand a CANADIAN sticking her nose into OUR political problems and trying to stifle our political views of them. You don't have a dog in this hunt, so, please go whine on a CANADIAN site. I for one appreciate very much what this site has given us in all respects. It allows me to vent with like minded individuals, with the same concerns for our country that I have and debate some with a differing view. But, for you to come in here and want to change the site to fit yourself is selfish and unappreciated. Please take your sniffling somewhere else.

I just looked at ONE page of what you post and out of 25 you posted 14 in "OFF TOPIC" but yet you claim to come here to read about "Dinar and Iraq".

But on the other hand, if creating a "POLITICAL TOPICS SECTION" will keep YOU out of OUR political discussions, THEN I'M ALL FOR IT.

[R2D2]

My Dear friend Smee. That is one of the things that make this country what it is. The Constitution allows us to say what we feel. We also have other libertys. What all this is about is our Constitution is under attack by this president and his jack booted thugs. If you knew the libertys ythat he and his adminsrration has infringed on. You too would be bashing these people just like the rest of us. Like Ronald Reagan said" America is the last place on tghe planet that has the freedom we enjoy".
When we experience this kind of attack we have tend to stand up and complain. That happens just before we take to the streets to protest. You should be proud you live in a country where you can state your felling. We only do that so you and others can live in a free country. Soon it will be over. When we kick this Kenyan out of the White House.

[smee2]

I have obviously failed again!



I am NOT against protest. I am NOT against people agitating for change. I come from the days of the "sit in" ... anyone else remember those times? I am NOT against feeling gyped by the Commander In Chief when he turns out to be folded up like a piece of paper in those origami swans people stick to their computers. Every time you unfold part of one you find something you didn't expect. I am NOT against people having their say, wanting change, protesting.

I AM AGAINST having so many of the political topics wear a headline that is NOT telling me it is yet another political bashing. THAT IS ALL I am against. I suggest ways to make a difference that means gettting away from the computer and out of the house and watching the system grind, for good or bad, and contributing more than endless bashing of your head of state.

I do not appreciate being told I cannot comment on US politics because I am Canadian and you don't come and comment on Canadian politics. BS!!!!! I still remember when Canadians said "no" to Iraq and went instead to Afghanistan. We were reviled by Americans. They shot up the idea that we were good friends and good neighbours. We were told quite plainly that if we didn't go along and support your troups we were no better than traitors.

And it was at the instigation of YOUR government and homeland security that MY citizens suddenly had to have passports to travel over any land you might call America. We didn't even have to land on American soil ... just being in a plane passing over Alaska on the way to Japan or some such meant that we had to have more paperwork than usual. Don't tell me it didn't happen. It happened to me. I sort of resent having another country, any other country, put restrictions on me and basically make me ask permission to travel if I am anywhere over your country.

You seem to have missed the point here that I cannot always tell from the headline whether your post in off topics is political bashing or not. I find out by going to read it. Too late to just "ignore" it as you all say.

Anyway, thank you for all your comments. Though I disagree with some, agree with others, find some offensive to my tender feelings and realize I opened a can of worms, I got the feedback that comes from such a post. That was at least part of what I wanted. And of course what I didn't want was to keep coming back to defend myself. I am, after all, a Canadian, and we do have the reputation for being peace keepers.

During the first decade of my marriage I found out that my husband and his family felt that argument was a full contact family sport! I hated it! I was disgusted with my mother-in-law who started the most outrageous arguments just to get her own way about something. Usually it was politics or religion. I told her one Christmas that they were welcome for Christmas dinner but the ground rules inclued no discussion, absolutel NO discussion about politics and religion. To shorten the story, when dinner was ready to be served I went and told my husband he would have to take over, and I was sure his mom could serve dinner. I then grabbed my purse and keys and drove away to stay at a hotel and enjoy their spa treatment. I stayed gone and out of touch for three days. I had warned them, several times over the years. They didn't seem to think I was serious when I told them that fighting was NOT something I would put up with in my own home. And if you wonder why more peaceful Canadians would be fighting in my home? They were not Canadian ... but transplanted Aussies. My husband came to Canada at the age of three years. He grew up with the arguing.

Anyway, God save the U S of A, bring on those Grapes of Wrath, don't look directly at the rockets red glare, one if by land and two if by sea ... thank you thank you good Americans all.



smee2