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#21 DinarDana

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

Brokenomore: I agree that is a PART OF THE PROBLEM, The other part of the equation that is conveniently overlooked by mainstream media is the fact that through political influence (bought politicians) the wealthy and large corporations have shifted the burden onto working Americans because they have managed to get away with paying LITTLE or NO TAX AT ALL!

Not to mention the fact that most have evaded the IRS by offshoring their interests to avoid the scrutiny of the IRS. The system is rigged....don't you get it?

Carlos


Oh yes Brokenomore Carlos has a good point and I lean in this direction. I work for some rather large corporations see exactly how these companies are getting away with this. Offshore banking is another way the rich and corporations are escaping their tax obligations. It is a serious situation and once one has a large sum of money in their hand, how quickly does it take before greed sets in - Business use to be about something different and today it is about the shareholders. I use to have the worst opinion for the "entitlement programs" and wisdom overcame me at some point as I unraveled the lies while seeking the truth. Open your eyes wide there is a lot to see.
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#22 Usaok

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:15 PM

Finally , finally , broke no more , great post but how in gods name do we convince the anointed ones fan club not to vote party or for it ( obamacide ) but for the man that will save this country from the take something for nothing , lazy , low life , have five kid group and get a check from us who work crowd ... Tell me please someone tell me ....? Some idiots love this tyrant and socialist hitler .
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#23 BrokeNoMore

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:16 PM

Carlos,

This thread wasn't meant to address all the ills of our society and our political landscape. I'm just talking about the part I'm talking about.

Also, to suggest that the more than 50% on the public dole are the seriously unfortunate in our society and that we're just mean is pretty much irrelevant, even if true, which it is not. The majority of the people on the dole want a lifestyle they cannot afford, and depend on the working contributors to provide it.

I have witnessed too many times all the bling, fancy fingernails and late model iPhone I can't/don't afford on the people using food stamps at the grocery store, as well as all the things in their cart I can't/don't budget for. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Yes, I pass judgement on how they spend their money. Some of it I earned. I resent it.


If in any society you assign 4 people to take complete financial responsibility for their own dependents, plus six other adults and their dependents, they're doomed to failure. It's simple math.
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#24 Usaok

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:32 PM

I agree with the above post . Get a job you lazy bums . I am tired of supporting your ten kids .... Low life's .!!!
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#25 carlos in san diego

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:09 PM

Brokenomore:

I completely understand what your saying and to a very large degree I agree with it. I'm not here to defend the people you disdain. I personally have only recently, within the last six months or so became aware myself of how our society has been structured by those that control us from the top and I'm not happy with what I've been able to figure out.

Our uneducated, unwashed and ignorant characterise themselves with the trappings of those that they look up to in theiri environment: the tasteless, gaudy jewelry, the $2000.00 rims on a $500.00 junker car, the loud obnoxious music, that makes the back window on their junker vibrate. They do generally have a lot a lot of scragly looking kids and you will find them hanging out in front of the welfare office...it's true!

I don't know what percentage of the population these people represent in the big, real picture. Personally, I don't believe that they represent a significant enough of a majority of the population to critically effect our survival as a nation. Realistically, now that you have read my views on what group of our population is most responsable for damaging our economy, you must also agree with me that the damage these lower class people do is nothing compared to the damage already done by the elite.

How these people got this way, and why as a society we have allowed them to remain this way without intervention is an interesting reason for a debate. The fact is that many have lived in enclosed urban guettos for so long now that they have developed their own written and spoken languages, and we cannot realistically expect them to become Rhodes Scholars overnight.

It took generations of virtual social isolation and marginalization for them to become like this, and if society should feel the need to address their plight, which I think they should, we must first come to terms with the reality of their existance and come to terms also with the solutions to their problems instead of condeming them to perpetual isolation because we disapprove of them.

A person with a good education is much less likely to wind up on a welfare line or in prison because he has the skills needed to take care of himself and his family. It does no good to complain about these people and wish they would change....we need to help them overcome the negative cycles of their existance. It starts with education.

Carlos
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#26 BrokeNoMore

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:07 AM

.....

It starts with education.

Carlos


I almost entirely agree with what you said in the whole post, but I don't think that makes it okay to feed the problem.

I partially agree it starts with eduction, and unfortunately our public system isn't doing it.

That's why I work hard, pay my bills, live within my means, and am personally seeing to a very expensive education for every one of my children. Not one of them steps foot in the public sewer system I mean education system that this country has to offer as long as I have breath.

I think it mostly starts with character. But that's a whole other thread. :lol:

I'm looking forward to this RV taking the strain off, making the financial part easy for me. Then I'll also be able to upgrade all the "trappings" for me and mine.

I must also admit that I was on the dole for four months during an especially rough time about eight years ago. I don't have a problem with having it where really necessary, for those who really can't. It's the general attitude of the takers that makes my blood boil.
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#27 DinarDana

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:49 AM

BNM- I certainly can understand your point of view. We all experience different levels of angst in the world depending on our life experiences. I see a different set of problems where I live. I have three adopted children I am raising, born into a life of poverty, abuse, and neglect. Turning around their lives around has been a struggle for all of us as a family. My hope has been to raise these kids away from where they began and stop the cycle, with just three lives, which could change for generations to come. We all need to reach out to the unfortunate, but we need to have that choice! That cycle becomes ingrained and it is truly a social issue that we will never heal overnight. All the systems are broken and it starts from the top. I hope 2012 is the year of change, the great awakening. Peace to you and your family and my hope is all that deserve a break will see a positive change this year.
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#28 Maggie123

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:25 AM

I have read this whole thread. Thank You to all that have contributed.

For what it's worth there are people that have worked all their lives, followed the rules, and now find the rules have changed, and they are left out in the cold.

I have "Pride" yet I fear that I may be one of the "Takers" you talk about if I can not feed my familly because of prolonged unemployment... jobs used to come to me, now I feel like a "begger" for a job.

Will it be a living wage? hummm.... Bennies Nope!

I guess my point is... don't put me in the same bag as the bling gals that have 5 kids and are on the take.

I have followed the money and I do see where it has gone... from what I can see the Banks have taken over our government and our lives. Not Good.

DinarDana I Salute You! Hugs Dear.. Wonderful... and a life well spent!

I understand your concern about their future, your eyes are open...

Hugs All Maggie
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#29 carlos in san diego

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:09 AM

I almost entirely agree with what you said in the whole post, but I don't think that makes it okay to feed the problem.

I partially agree it starts with eduction, and unfortunately our public system isn't doing it.

That's why I work hard, pay my bills, live within my means, and am personally seeing to a very expensive education for every one of my children. Not one of them steps foot in the public sewer system I mean education system that this country has to offer as long as I have breath.

I think it mostly starts with character. But that's a whole other thread. :lol:

I'm looking forward to this RV taking the strain off, making the financial part easy for me. Then I'll also be able to upgrade all the "trappings" for me and mine.

I must also admit that I was on the dole for four months during an especially rough time about eight years ago. I don't have a problem with having it where really necessary, for those who really can't. It's the general attitude of the takers that makes my blood boil.


Brokenomore:

Without trying to be disrespectfull, to you or anyone else that has thoughtfully participated in this thread there is a point I would like to make, maybe more....First, I would advise you not dwell on things in life that you cannot change. Also I feel we all need to realise that every aspect of our society is broken and dysfunctional, in fact to turn it around, I would have to say that there is very little that actually works the way it was intended...for the betterment of our society. This tells me, and I hope you see what I mean, that we need a complete overhaul of our entire domestic agenda from the ground up.

We have been living with a completely dysfunctional system for generations now, to a point that once our government officials carve up a good idea to suit their personal agendas, there is nothing left of any legislation that is worth implementing and only seems to become dead weight upon us taxpayers, another uselessly spent billion here, another over there...?

I feel our problems go deeper than the ones I have mentioned. We have inherent differences among our people's views that have us hamstrung so badly that we cannot function, and I'll give you an example: We have been talking about the problem you perceive among the uneducated poor, I think most agree education is the key to overcome this: how can we when we have people in Government calling for budget cuts that have created a steady rise in College tuition rates for the last decade? Our needs and our expectations are not being met, nor will they!

Going deeper into what dives us, is the fact that the social economic problems that we face have meet similar roadblocks that have only served to obstruct the forward progress of these social issues, as another example: CONTRACEPTION, birth control and abortion. You claim these people have ten children and they are all dependent on welfare? Yet the same people that tend to complein about these problems are the same ones that won't endorse any type of preventative measure to help eliminate the problem to begin with!

Have you noticed that the FBI has reported that violent crime is down in all categories for probably the last ten years? Guess why? Contraception! Abortion! That's why! We can't have it both ways! You cannot be against contraception and expect the problem to go away by itself, as though we were talking about acne or something!

Yes, crime has been down consistently for many years and there is no other explanation that makes sense...think about it.

Personally, I think the ones we have to blame for the current anti-contraception campaign are the right wing politicians who have made it their mission in life to make us all adhere to what they perceive as their Christian values....middle aged white men who feel they have a mandate from the Lord to tell women what they can and can't do with their own reproductive systems! These are also the same Politicians who can do absolutely nothing right in Washington because they are too busy stuffing their pockets with special interest monies!

Why do people listen to these inept fools?

Carlos

I have read this whole thread. Thank You to all that have contributed.

For what it's worth there are people that have worked all their lives, followed the rules, and now find the rules have changed, and they are left out in the cold.

I have "Pride" yet I fear that I may be one of the "Takers" you talk about if I can not feed my familly because of prolonged unemployment... jobs used to come to me, now I feel like a "begger" for a job.

Will it be a living wage? hummm.... Bennies Nope!

I guess my point is... don't put me in the same bag as the bling gals that have 5 kids and are on the take.

I have followed the money and I do see where it has gone... from what I can see the Banks have taken over our government and our lives. Not Good.

DinarDana I Salute You! Hugs Dear.. Wonderful... and a life well spent!

I understand your concern about their future, your eyes are open...

Hugs All Maggie



Maggie:

It is sad when you consider we have worked all our lives and done what's right, and still have mess on our hands. In Spanish we have a saying.."Uno no sabe por quien trabaja" it means: One does not know who he is really working for. It's used to show how after a life time of struggles, one dies, and what legacy you have passed on to your children, winds up in the hands of whom you least expected would get it, generally the one who least deserved the rewards for all your years of toil.

That's our situation here in this contry. The wealthy wind up reaping all the benefits.

Peace: Carlos
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#30 BrokeNoMore

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:10 AM

Brokenomore:

.......

Personally, I think the ones we have to blame for the current anti-contraception campaign are the right wing politicians who have made it their mission in life to make us all adhere to what they perceive as their Christian values....middle aged white men who feel they have a mandate from the Lord to tell women what they can and can't do with their own reproductive systems! These are also the same Politicians who can do absolutely nothing right in Washington because they are too busy stuffing their pockets with special interest monies!

Why do people listen to these inept fools?

Carlos


I just realized you just want to keep the fight going. Wow.

No question our society has a great deal of ills. No question that there is no agreement on how to solve them. You want to turn it again now and say it's the right wing politicians and Christians' fault now. All I can say is wow.

I could say a lot more on the topic, but I'll save my breath.

DinarDana ~ Thank you so much for contributing what you have and do to making things better. I believe that changing one life at a time...reflects eternal values rather than temporal ones.

Maggie123 ~ Of course you would not be lumped into the "takers." Being a receiver doesn't make you a "taker." All of us need help of one type or another from time to time.
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#31 carlos in san diego

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:11 AM

BNM- I certainly can understand your point of view. We all experience different levels of angst in the world depending on our life experiences. I see a different set of problems where I live. I have three adopted children I am raising, born into a life of poverty, abuse, and neglect. Turning around their lives around has been a struggle for all of us as a family. My hope has been to raise these kids away from where they began and stop the cycle, with just three lives, which could change for generations to come. We all need to reach out to the unfortunate, but we need to have that choice! That cycle becomes ingrained and it is truly a social issue that we will never heal overnight. All the systems are broken and it starts from the top. I hope 2012 is the year of change, the great awakening. Peace to you and your family and my hope is all that deserve a break will see a positive change this year.



DinarDana:

I hope my word have been thought provoking and in my humble way, served to make you join those who seek the truth. I hope I made a difference.

Carlos
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#32 DinarDana

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:39 PM

DinarDana:

I hope my word have been thought provoking and in my humble way, served to make you join those who seek the truth. I hope I made a difference.

Carlos


You are speaking to a truth seeker who has been seeking the truth since birth, however I am empathetic to all points of view because we only know what we know based on experience. I have been called crazy, gifted and even been told I have a head of useless information because many don't want to hear the truth. I instead choose at this time to focus as far as my arms can reach and pray for the means to reach further once I am in the position to live to work, not work to live.

There are lots of positive things happening in this world, just as many amazing people contributing to the good of mankind, we need to put our collective energy to organizations that provide micro loans to individuals that are creating their own jobs, free energy, wellness, and collaboration, building supportive communities that nurture and thrive. We need to continue as a collective society to shut down all the businesses and social "norms" that contribute to death, violence and destruction. The age of enlightenment has arrived and the changes we have yet to see are going to be hard for many, and welcomed by many more. Yes we need to have eyes wide open and look beyond ourselves, however Carlos this is incredibly hard on a daily basis when you work hard just wishing you could buy better food, live in a better neighborhood, get the proper medical attention, pay for fuel to get to work or to heat and cool your home.

Love and peace to all on this thread.
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#33 DinarDana

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

Finally , finally , broke no more , great post but how in gods name do we convince the anointed ones fan club not to vote party or for it ( obamacide ) but for the man that will save this country from the take something for nothing , lazy , low life , have five kid group and get a check from us who work crowd ... Tell me please someone tell me ....? Some idiots love this tyrant and socialist hitler .


Usaok, This has been going on for years and not just under the wings of this president, however because of what Carlos is trying to point out, this is not just a political game, it is coming from all sides and we have see that big business is just as much to blame. It is coming to a peak and where will it all stop? I agree with you it has to stop with us we have to unite and not follow party lines. Who has the ability to unite this country? We are the UNITED states and we behave horribly, the rights hates the left and left hates the right. Hey how about we all move to the middle and move all the evil out regardless of our personal views. We just can't seen to do this. It was designed this way. Absolutely! As long as we fight about personal beliefs we can't fight the real fight, and the thieves steal all of our rights and opportunities.
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#34 Luigi1

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

I suspect that those that you are calling leaches and parasites & sponges, you mean in fact : the homeless, the long term unemployed and the underemployed. Thats your priviladge to look at these unfortunates in this way if you so choose. Personally, I see them as victims of a government and banking system that has no heart and does not care about it's people, but rather their own self interests above anyone else's

I am not shocked at the way you view those less fortunate than yourself. I find it's common in a nation where the media and government has been controlled for decades now. Your views of these people have been carefully sculpted by the talking heads whom the system has employed to make you angry at these people.

The coldness of your views would make someone who does not understand that you have been systematically brainwashed think you do not have a shred of descency and do not share the values of a Christian or religious background that most of us share toward the rest of humanity

I doubt that you are this person. Not deep down inside this is not you. Your views reflect the views of Rush Limbhaw. A known right wing extreme hate monger who has poisoned the American airwaves and the people's minds for decades now.

Luigi the real parasites, leaches and sponges are the bankers and our elected government officials who have aided the elite in stealing sums of money that make the social benefits received by the less fortunate in our society seem like chump change in the big picture.

I suspect you did not read all the posts in this thread, but only with those who tend to agree with your misplaced anger. Your hate and anger are misplaced. You need to keep your mind open to the possibility that you views are wrong, if you can't, then you are no longer reasoning...you're just reacting. It then becomes a knee jerk reaction, devoid of thought.

Carlos



Nice try Dude. Don't put words in my mouth. You know very well which leeches, parasites & sponges i'm refering to. A clue, it's not the homeless, the foreclosed, the jobless.


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#35 carlos in san diego

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:07 PM

I just realized you just want to keep the fight going. Wow.

No question our society has a great deal of ills. No question that there is no agreement on how to solve them. You want to turn it again now and say it's the right wing politicians and Christians' fault now. All I can say is wow.

I could say a lot more on the topic, but I'll save my breath.

DinarDana ~ Thank you so much for contributing what you have and do to making things better. I believe that changing one life at a time...reflects eternal values rather than temporal ones.

Maggie123 ~ Of course you would not be lumped into the "takers." Being a receiver doesn't make you a "taker." All of us need help of one type or another from time to time.


Brokenomore:

That's not the case. With me it's not a fight, It's a conversation! I pushed the hot button on purpose, not to get a rise out of anyone, but just to show you that those that complain about things do so without considering the scope of what is involved in fixing the propblems they complain about. I believe I have a very good point about contraception, despite what prejudices you may have.

The point being that we must all keep an open mind these days and not discard or minimize a potential solution because it goes against the grain to consider it as a part of the solution.

Since that issue between us has been put to bed, I do have an issue you alluded to tin your opening statement hat did rub my fur the wrong way, "English only" I think that is a very limited view point that does not do any one in this country any good to make it an official law. I'll be happy to tell you why, since you were kind enough to bring up the issue in your statement.

The USA, IMHO, is the ONLY country in the civilized world where people would discourage the use and learning of another language, and I think that mentality is a very sad statement and only serves to show how narrow minded some people can be.

I would imagine that you, like many in this country have not travelled to anywhere else, and if you have, it's been in the bubble of a cruise ship, or layover at an airport. I would imagine that your exposure to a different language has been limited to walking past a couple of mexicans who are talking among themselves, and this gave you an insecure feeling because you did not know what they were talking about.

So you propose that there be a national law that says everyone in this country MUST speak English? That's ridiculous, and I would like you to defend your views in a little more detail as to why you think that is important ? Don't be shy...I can keep an open mind! ..... I can read, write and speak equally well in both English and Spanish and am waiting to hear your views!

Thanks: Carlos

Carlos
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#36 mrparrot

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

At the risk of having a ton of rotten vegetables
thrown at me while standing here on my little
soapbox, I need to say something.

Yes, I play in the world of conspiracy theories.

***ducks as the first rotten vegetable flies his direction***

The PTB have already chosen the next President.

***ducks as three more rotten vegetables fly his direction***

Elections are just a formality, to make the sheeple feel good
and make them think that they have accomplished something.

***ducks as five more rotten vegetables fly his direction***

Just spend some time checking out some of the following sites.

Some are conspiracy sites.

Others are news sites that cover the news that you won't
see on in the MSM...

A.T.S.
B.L.N.
R.G.
S.O.T.T.
S.T.A.
W.D.I.M.
W.R.H.
C.P.
C.D.N.

If the American people knew 1/2 of 1% of what was really going
on with our government, and what it was involved in, there would
be another civil war.

Only this time, it would be the people vs the government machine...

***ducks as fifty more rotten vegetables fly his direction***
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#37 BobCoss

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:13 PM

Carlos, You are very eloquent in your expressions and bring many valid points to the table. However there are a couple that I think you are way off on. Education is, I agree the 1'st step to solving many of our societies ills. However, the entitlements that are being used by many of the families, are teaching the kids that they do not have to get an education to get ahead, they just have to learn how to manipulate the system. I have been Chairperson for my children's schools for years and I see so many of these kids in elementary & middle school that do not even try to learn & only cause problems. When they get in trouble, their Mother comes in and plays the race card. The parents do not read so they do not read, etc. Why, because we make it too easy for them. Entitlements may have started out as a good idea to help someone in need, but it is now a way to guarantee their vote. Just another way to enslave.

Take away the " Give them a fish " and start to " teach them how to fish " Sixty years ago, it was painful for my parents to be broke and poor, so they knew to tell their kids to get a good education so they could rise above their level. Today, we make it too easy for the parent to have many kids, stay on welfare, & have things they can't afford as if it is their right.

It is quite the stretch also to believe that contraception is the reason that the FBI reports declining crime statistics. Whether you agree with the right wing politicians that do not agree with government subsidized contraceptives or not, that is quite interesting. From where I live and I have been in the security industry, ( burglar alarms & surveillance cameras ) for 38 years, a better reason for a decrease in crime statistics is that local law enforcement is reporting many crimes as something far less than what they really are so that they are not reported as index crimes. I have seen the police reports many times where the home was broken into, $10k+ was stolen and yet it was reported as a criminal trespass. It isn't because of contraception.
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#38 BrokeNoMore

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:41 PM

At the risk of having a ton of rotten vegetables
thrown at me while standing here on my little
soapbox, I need to say something.

Yes, I play in the world of conspiracy theories.

***ducks as the first rotten vegetable flies his direction***

The PTB have already chosen the next President.

***ducks as three more rotten vegetables fly his direction***

Elections are just a formality, to make the sheeple feel good
and make them think that they have accomplished something.

***ducks as five more rotten vegetables fly his direction***

Just spend some time checking out some of the following sites.

Some are conspiracy sites.

Others are news sites that cover the news that you won't
see on in the MSM...

A.T.S.
B.L.N.
R.G.
S.O.T.T.
S.T.A.
W.D.I.M.
W.R.H.
C.P.
C.D.N.

If the American people knew 1/2 of 1% of what was really going
on with our government, and what it was involved in, there would
be another civil war.

Only this time, it would be the people vs the government machine...

***ducks as fifty more rotten vegetables fly his direction***


No rotten vegetables. Or fruit either. :lol:

I could not agree with you more, since I think I do know about 1/2 of 1% of what is really going on.

All of these other issues are simply things to fight about. Dang nearly makes me figure that voting isn't worth the trouble.

I do believe the dole was put in place to be one of the things that would bring America down. Before that, people worked pretty hard not to need help, and those that really were desperate, got help from charitable organizations, or they didn't get help. Regardless of what anyone thinks about it, it's not healthy for any economy to have a welfare program.

Carlos, You are very eloquent in your expressions and bring many valid points to the table. However there are a couple that I think you are way off on. Education is, I agree the 1'st step to solving many of our societies ills. However, the entitlements that are being used by many of the families, are teaching the kids that they do not have to get an education to get ahead, they just have to learn how to manipulate the system. I have been Chairperson for my children's schools for years and I see so many of these kids in elementary & middle school that do not even try to learn & only cause problems. When they get in trouble, their Mother comes in and plays the race card. The parents do not read so they do not read, etc. Why, because we make it too easy for them. Entitlements may have started out as a good idea to help someone in need, but it is now a way to guarantee their vote. Just another way to enslave.

Take away the " Give them a fish " and start to " teach them how to fish " Sixty years ago, it was painful for my parents to be broke and poor, so they knew to tell their kids to get a good education so they could rise above their level. Today, we make it too easy for the parent to have many kids, stay on welfare, & have things they can't afford as if it is their right.

It is quite the stretch also to believe that contraception is the reason that the FBI reports declining crime statistics. Whether you agree with the right wing politicians that do not agree with government subsidized contraceptives or not, that is quite interesting. From where I live and I have been in the security industry, ( burglar alarms & surveillance cameras ) for 38 years, a better reason for a decrease in crime statistics is that local law enforcement is reporting many crimes as something far less than what they really are so that they are not reported as index crimes. I have seen the police reports many times where the home was broken into, $10k+ was stolen and yet it was reported as a criminal trespass. It isn't because of contraception.


Thank You. Just...Thank You. I hate it when people act like part of the problem really isn't part of the problem.
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