Legolas

Sorry, but if you INCREASE the quantity of ANYTHING in circulation, whether it be Dollars, Dinars, or Widgets, you reduce the value of the individual unit.... particularly when you are speaking in quantities of TRILLIONS of units. Way back when, when the Dinar held a higher value, the quantity in circulation was BILLIONS, not TRILLIONS. In this case, the wealth we are speaking about is the value of the IQD......it's the unit of wealth we are concerned with. Simple economics is in play here, and even the most naive person would have to understand the concept with even a limited amount of thought.

[Adam Montana] let me make ONE point. Wealth cannot simply "disappear", it can only change hands [Adam Montana] Iraq was once a VERY wealthy country, with a currency valued at 3X the USD [Adam Montana] now, you'll hear the l0psters talking about M2, they say you can't simply revalue the currency and gain money, etc etc.... the same goes for DEvaluing the currency. It does not matter how many 0's they have on their bills, it doesn't matter if there's 16 gazillion of these Dinars in circulation, because the notion that their wealth simply "disappeared" 8 years ago is a complete sham Let's say a country has a stack of currency worth.....just as an example.......One Billion Dollars, and circulates those billion One Dollar notes for the purchase of goods in the local markets. THEN they decide to print ONE TRILLION MORE of those notes, and they distribute them in the same local markets. ON WHAT PLANET does that not DECREASE the value of the original currency? Is he serious? Is anyone truly so delusional as to believe that the printing of additional currency doesn't make wealth "disappear," by reducing the value of those original notes simply by increasing the quantity?

Personally, I think dinarck is absolutely correct. Iraq has continued to print several trillion dinars each year as reserves have increased. I can see no reason for that to change after a redenomination. They have functioned without complaint of a currency shortage since the issuance of the new IQD and their law requires that all currency issued be backed by their reserves, which it has been. As their economy grows, reserves would logically increase, allowing for the printing of additional currency. Pretty simple. The quoted article is more than two years old, and hundreds of subsequent articles make very clear what their intentions are. Debating the meaning of THIS particular one seems an effort in futility, the only purpose of which appears to be to muddy the waters. Plans and interpretations change over a period of two years, and it's more sensible to discuss what's being said NOW. Things are confusing enough without digging up a single article from 25 months ago and declaring it to demonstrate their intent to RV.

Hey Keep. Welcome to the Lopster Penitentiary. I tried to help you out in your battle up in the opinions section by using up my allocation of +'s, but they won't let you get a sentence out up there without giving you a negative. I ran out before I could do you much good. I think I might have been outnumbered about 3,000:1 by the delusional zombies who blast you with negs without providing justification for their positions. I think a + paintball gun with an extended mag might help. Thanks JMW. The one you posted here today is one of the best articulated articles I've seen. It was brief and to the point, but definitely left no room for doubt. Anyone who can't understand the intent depicted in that one needs to get the prescription checked on their rose colored glasses. Of course we all know that those hundreds of articles are written with the sole intention of deterring speculators, and to make the dealers feel guilty as they sell their billions of Dinars at a 40% markup.

Yep. As stated in another thread, the articles are gradually becoming more clear in their meaning - not that there was really ever any doubt. The "RV tomorrow" crowd simply used the confusion created by translation issues to attempt to spin the articles in a positive slant. The truth is that they've always said the same thing. Now that the translations are more legible, the NEW line from the believers is that it's all lies - a plan created to chase away the speculators. That line is incredibly laughable, as Iraq continues to sell Dinars by the billions every week, and the dealers, pumpers, and site owners continue to grow more wealthy. You would THINK that these believers would be smart enough to realize that if Iraq was in fact attempting to deter speculators with these years of RD articles, that they would have FIRST stopped the never-ending supply of Dinars from reaching those speculators, or at the very least, attempted to. But in fact, the reverse is true. The supply and number of dealers has increased, rather than decreased. Unfortunately, it's much easier and more comforting to believe that they're lying, and the hilarious "smoke and mirrors" line aids in maintaining the delusion.

Yet another civil and informative thread with great participation. If only the people who really need to be reading it were actually engaged, instead of spending their time in the Rumor Fantasyland. Dinarck has an amazing and seemingly unending supply of patience and willingness to explain the same points over and over again, always providing proof for his positions. Those reading this should ask themselves how often you've seen a guru or pumper do the same things. The truly sad thing is that they rarely HAVE to because so many are willing to accept their BS, and so few are anxious to challenge it. It's gratifying to see new people joining the fray and engaging in intelligent discussion. It's unfortunate that it's confined to a section that most people either refuse or are hesitant to visit, but such is life. The old saying that "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink" is particularly applicable here. Keep up the great work gang. It appears that at least SOME people are beginning to understand both the simplicities, as well as the complexities of this adventure. Keeping it simple and easy to understand will benefit the largest number of people. Hopefully, readers will take with them at least SOME of what's contained here in the lop prison to other sections and even to other sites. Without a doubt, it's difficult to break through a barrier which has been reinforced by non-stop BS over a period of several years, but even the most ardent believer should eventually be able to be convinced by irrefutable evidence. All we can do is try.

Hey webup. I think I can speak for all of the inmates here at Lopster Penitentiary when I say thanks, not only for visiting, but for attempting to bring reality to the Rumors Forum, difficult as that may be. It really is good to know that gradually at least, more people are beginning to understand basic economic principles and grasp what we're trying so hard to explain. None of us are economists, but this really IS simple Economics 101. I guess I have a difficult time understanding why more people don't get it when it's been repeatedly explained in such simple terms, but you presented the situation well. I've said it before, but it's nice to know that others see it as well. Most people only hear what they want to hear, and very easily block out what they don't want to comprehend.

You seem to be misunderstanding the entire concept of a revaluation. Iraq only needs to support the Dinars which have already been issued by backing them with their reserves. What you're not understanding is that "those" Dinars are currently valued at roughly 1/10 of a cent each. What the 100,000% RV does is "change" that value from a tenth of a penny each to $1.00 each - (or whatever the amount of the RV is) thus "increasing" the value by 1,000 times. That NEW value would suddenly increase the values of those Dinars in existence from the current $60 BILLION Dollars to $60 TRILLION Dollars, which according to their law, and simple common sense, has to be backed by their reserves. Once again, $60 TRILLION DOLLARS is many times the total value of ALL of the money which exists in the entire world. How does that happen? Answer: It can't - at least under any existing or known economic principles. Can the world monetary supply be increased by roughly 6 times overnight, and by a third world, war torn country with a GDP that stands at #62? If it can, nobody has demonstrated how.

Hey WorkerBee. You are correct. The redenomination is the plan of Shabibi and the CBI and has been submitted to the GOI. Until recently, it appeared that Maliki and perhaps the GOI might be opposed to it, but more recent articles seem to imply that the plan has been approved, and is now awaiting design and printing of new currency, distribution, etc. But until something finally happens, it's impossible to know for sure. All we know is what they've been "saying" and teaching for a long period of time, and that should be a strong indicator of intent. Is there logical reason to doubt it? Who knows. So instead of keeping quiet and saying "nothing" as would seem the more logical course of action, they lie their asses off for at least two years repeatedly detailing a classic redenomination, and then suddenly spring the RV, magically creating TRILLIONS of Dollars to add to the world monetary supply, and create major chaos? In what universe does that make any sense at all?

I don't follow you Sonny. What do you mean "how are people going to go to cbi and buy dinar?" We all know that we can still go to any number of dealers and buy as many BILLIONS of Dinars as we want. If the CBI is announcing a revaluation, common sense says that everyone in the world would be buying up those Dinars in huge numbers. Are you saying that can't happen? Why can't it? And what do you mean by "deleting the zeros are the small notes?" Deleting the zeros always refers to moving the decimal point to the left - in this case 3 places, so that a 25,000 note becomes 25, a 10,000 becomes 10, a 5,000 becomes 5, etc. Obviously new notes are needed after a redenomination OR a revaluation, and all evidence indicates that they have not yet been designed or printed. So what are you saying there? That statement was very cryptic. Splain it to me so that I can respond.

Saying that they could be lying is a very convenient way to deflect the overwhelming evidence, but that would mean that the two different independent auditing agencies, as well as the IMF and others would be lying as well, or at the very least, be unbelievably incompetent. For the M1 and M2 numbers to be a lie, their budget would also have to be a lie, as well as "income" figures, which are very easily confirmed by their daily oil production numbers, since that is essentially their only major source of income, and barely covers their operating expenses. Unlike many countries, Iraq's currency has to be backed 100% by reserves, and the numbers they have presented clearly document it. More importantly, why would they continue to lie to their own people, day after day for several years now? If they intend to RV, the only logical course of action would be to maintain absolute secrecy, saying nothing until the moment of the event. To do otherwise would be economic suicide. Given that the Dinar RV is probably the worst kept secret in history, isn't it more likely that they're telling the truth, and merely fumbling, as always, over how to get the process approved and initiated?

They sure do, and unlike the RD posts, the "GO RV" posts virtually never provide anything but complaints and criticism of the RD position.....NEVER evidence to support their argument.

We're not asking that you eat crow. The food is bad enough here in lop prison that we'd be happy if you would just slide an occasional pizza under the bars for our enjoyment. I guess we find that the visitors to Lopster Penitentiary are so few that we feel the need to present a more convincing argument than that presented by the gurus. To have any hope of success, our appellate briefs have to be of sufficient length to sway the thousands of judges who hold the keys to our freedom. Unlike the "RV tomorrow" gurus, we have to say a little more than "it will not lop" in order to have any chance to overcome the effective yells of the many cheerleaders who are so readily believed without providing any evidence to support their enthusiasm. But thanks once again, for at least calling our input "intelligent."

No, mrmcwhipit........"Negative" is when a person says that it's impossible to make a profit of 15% on a financial investment in today's market. "Realistic" is when they say you can't make a 100,000% profit, and that $60 BILLION DOLLARS can't magically turn into $60 TRILLION DOLLARS overnight with a poke from Harry Potter's wand. There's a big difference. And for a million dollars, I'd be happy to eat all the crow you can serve. What are you "RV tomorrow" people going to eat when yet another 6 months, and hundreds of additional promises of "tomorrow" and "soon" go by with no increase in our bank accounts, and $millions MORE go into the hands of the pumpers and gurus?